PDA

View Full Version : Name that plastic



wierdscience
06-29-2006, 11:25 PM
Friend gave me a few pieces of plastic the otheray and I am trying to figure out what it is.

It's green in color,hard like Nylon,holds demension well,machines cleanly and has bronze colored flecks all through it.

Some sort of metalic filled Nylon?

dicks42000
06-30-2006, 02:29 AM
Hey Weird;
Sounds like you're on the right track. Probably is made as a plastic bearing material.
I've worked with & still have a chunk of "graphalon" which is a graphite filled nylon material. I used it for bearings in a shaker device I built for testing vibration isolators & flexible couplings. Seemed to work OK under moderate speeds & loading.
Machined easily IIRC. with sharp tools. (Like most plastics.)
HTH
Rick

Evan
06-30-2006, 02:33 AM
The number one way to identify a plastic is to burn it. Here is a chart that should help you narrow it down.

http://www.modernplastics.com/how_to_identify_plastics.htm

Mark Hockett
06-30-2006, 02:42 AM
wierd,
It might be Nylatron, http://www.aipdaytona.com/plastics_nylatron.htm


Mark Hockett
Island Tech Enterprises
Clinton, WA 98236
360-914-6026

More chip less lip

Evan
06-30-2006, 02:47 AM
Nylatron is a uniform bluish grey in color as it contains molybedenum sulphide as a filler. No bronze flecks.

John Stevenson
06-30-2006, 03:25 AM
Nylatron is a uniform bluish grey in color as it contains molybedenum sulphide as a filler. No bronze flecks.

Depends on maker and suppliers.
Nylatron here in the UK is green in colour but no metalic flecks.

Problem is there are so many brand names and types it's very hard to keep a standard.
Looking at some bearing plastic's the other day and we can get PEEK in brown [ not sure what was in that one ] Bluish grey with Moly and white with glass strands but they are all PEEK.

.

Evan
06-30-2006, 03:36 AM
I can't figure out how they would make nylatron green. The moly is a very strong colorant as you will find out if you get moly grease on your fingers. It is entirely responsible for the blue-grey colour. I used to service equipment at a molybedenum mine and the entire landscape around the mine was the same colour from traces of the refined ore drifting about. Very depressing.

John Stevenson
06-30-2006, 04:10 AM
http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R771156-01.jpg

Nylatron® GS Nylon, Type 66, MoS2 filled, extruded
Search Categories: Nylon; Bearing; Material Notes: Nylatron GS Nylon is a nylon and molybdenum disulphide (MoS2) composition designed to improve the mechanical, thermal and bearing properties of type 6/6 nylon while maintaining its basic electrical and chemical characteristics. Through compounding, finely divided particles impart extra lubricity to this nylon, permitting Nylatron GS parts to operate with little or no lubrication. The added lubricity also contributes dramatically to component service life, making Nylatron GS a very cost-efficient choice. Nylatron GS nylon offers greater wear resistance, lower surface friction, higher strength and greater rigidity than unfilled 6/6 with improved dimensional stability.




.

Timleech
06-30-2006, 04:12 AM
http://www.nylaplas.com/plastics/ertalon_nylatron.html

tells you about different gades of Nylatron & their other products. Doesn't look as though they do a bronze-filled plastic, though.

Tim

Peter N
06-30-2006, 04:17 AM
The bronze coloured flecks could just be an added pigment dispersion in the material for cosmetic effect, and not necessarily a property modifier.

We have used many similar pigments to give items a 'metallic' look, and these can vary from a micro-dispersion to large coloured aluminium flakes.

As Evan said the easiest way to identify it is by burning the end and smelling it, but in all honesty this only works if you actually know what a specific polymer smells like. I don't have smelli-vision technology installed on my PC yet so I can't helpwith this:D

To confirm what John said, Nylatron sold/manufactured in the UK is definitely green, more like a dark shiny khaki. As a matter of fact it is an identical colour to the coatings on the speed change handles on Colchester lathes. Many years ago (late 70's) Colchester lathes contracted the company I worked for to design and make moulded handles to replace the cast aluminium items, and they specified Nylatron GS (30% GF) as the material in order to give the same visual appearance.

Peter

Evan
06-30-2006, 04:18 AM
Welcome to RS

Europe's leading
distributor of industrial
maintenance & repair
products.

http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R680331-01.jpg

RS Stock no. 390-3277 Manufact. part no. 4004236430 Name Plastic,stock,Nylatron GSM,sheet,30x305x500mm Catalogue page 3-1315

That is from the UK branch. Thier image, not black and white. Same source of image as John's.

Evan
06-30-2006, 04:25 AM
As for identification by burning, the easist way is to just compare with a known sample. The different plastics have very distinctive odours, especially nylon.

John Stevenson
06-30-2006, 04:32 AM
Evan,
See Peter's post above.
Peter has spent his whole working life with plastics.

.

Evan
06-30-2006, 04:46 AM
John, see the catalog at RS, they sell the stuff.

http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/home.do?cacheID=uknetscape&returningUser=N

RS Components Ltd
Birchington Road, Corby, Northants, NN17 9RS, UK

Evan
06-30-2006, 04:57 AM
I believe what you have being sold as green nylatron is actually called nyloil, a variation of nylatron that is oil filled and very similar to moly filled nylon but with even better properties. There is also a oil/moly filled nylatron that is blue. Standard nylatron is grey.



Nylatron® GSM - Cast Moly-Filled Nylon 6
Finely divided particles of "Moly" (molybdenum disulfide -- MoS2) are dispersed evenly throughout the nylon material during polymerization. The Moly particles act as a dry lubricant to enhance nylon's load bearing and wear capabilities while maintaining impact strength and toughness. It is most commonly used for gears, sheaves, sprockets and custom parts. It is Dark Grey in color.

Nyloil® - Cast Oil-Filled Nylon 6
Simply put, this is a cast nylon with built-in oil lubrication. During the manufacturing process, oil lubrication is completely and evenly dispersed throughout the cast nylon, making it an integral part of the material's structure that cannot spin out, dry out, or drain out, even under the harshest working conditions. This oil-filler reduces friction by as much as 25% at the bearing interface, and can result in longer wear life than unfilled or moly-filled cast nylons. The standard grade is Green in color, but a natural (off-white) colored FDA & USDA approved grade is also available.

Nylatron® GSM Blue - Cast Moly- & Oil-Filled Nylon 6
This grade combines both molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) and oil for the load capability of Nylatron GSM nylon, plus improved frictional characteristics. It excels in higher pressures and at low speeds. It is Dark Blue-Gray in color.

Nylatron® NSM - Cast Solid-Lubricant-Filled Nylon 6
This grade offers the best bearing and wear properties available. Solid lubricant additives, evenly dispersed throughout the nylon material, imparts self-lubricating, high PV, and superior wear characteristics. This Gray colored nylon grade is ideal for larger size parts, bearings, gears, and wear pads.


http://www.boedeker.com/nylonc_p.htm

Peter N
06-30-2006, 05:06 AM
The beauty of plastic is that in most cases it can be pretty much changed with pigments to give any colour you want.
The only definitive colour for a specific polymer is when you buy it in its natural uncompounded state without additives.

I have a stock masterbatch colour chart on my office wall which has over 200 basic 'off the shelf' shades of standard colours, and a bunch of moulded colour swatches that show the tonal change when moulded at differing thicknesses and surface finishes. The colour masterbatch compounder that we use (Clariant) has a library of swatches in their Watford depot with over 250,000 colours they have matched and can reproduce.

I don't have my camera handy at the moment but will grab it later and post a picture of these to illustrate what I mean.

Peter

Peter N
06-30-2006, 05:14 AM
I believe what you have being sold as green nylatron is actually called nyloil, a variation of nylatron that is oil filled and very similar to moly filled nylon but with even better properties. There is also a oil/moly filled nylatron that is blue. Standard nylatron is grey.



http://www.boedeker.com/nylonc_p.htm

Nope. All the Nylatron GS we have ever used over here- in its raw pellet form so that we can mould it - has been a dark khaki green. Its been a few years since we mouded that grade, so there is a caveat that they may have changed it, but in the UK everyone pretty much recognises Nylatron from that colour association.
It is definitely not Nyloil, CofC's and rigid conformance specs take that possibility out of the equation.
We may have to agree to differ.

Peter

Evan
06-30-2006, 05:15 AM
The problem with changing the colour of nylon with molybedenum disulphide is that the moly will overpower most any colorant. That is why the three grades listed above with moly are all a shade of gray. There isn't any way to change the color of MoS2.

Peter,

Care to explain then why gray Nylatron GSm is being sold there?

Evan
06-30-2006, 05:21 AM
I seem to be having trouble finding Nylatron GS in green in the UK. This supplier also lists it as grey/black.

http://www.bayplastics.co.uk/data%20sheets/Quadrant/NYLATRON%20GS.pdf

IOWOLF
06-30-2006, 06:27 AM
Weird, I hope you are satisfied.Now look at what you done,You have given them an excuse to argue.:)

John Stevenson
06-30-2006, 06:43 AM
Evan,
When you are spending this amount of money on stock out of your own pocket you have to be sure the spec sheets meet what the customer wants.
If he states Nylatron then you buy Nylatron and get the correct paperwork to suit.
What colour it is is irrelevant.

I can assure you you don't want to know what this lot cost :eek:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/nylon.jpg

.

Millman
06-30-2006, 08:29 AM
I'll guess...the long white piece was around $2000.00 for the amount you have left??????????

Evan
06-30-2006, 09:16 AM
Note that the above list shows the green and white as both colours that Nyloil comes in. I think that Nylatron is being used as a generic term for the products. It's impossible to make MoS2 filled nylon in white. I know what it costs, I have a bunch (not as much as that). I also have some Nyloil (Ertalon LFX).

It's like calling all acetal resin based products Delrin. They aren't all the same. Quadrant Engineering Plastic Products makes Nylatron. It a trademarked brand name and describes their products.

They make a range of filled nylon products. They ones that carry the Nylatron brand are:

Nylatron GS (gray/black)
Nylatron MC 901 (blue)
Nylatron GSM (gray/black)
Nylatron NSM (gray)

The singled filled nylon product that they make in green is Ertalon LFX.

Here is thier web site:

http://www.quadrantplastics.com/ErtalonNylatron.asp?id=5

Millman
06-30-2006, 09:56 AM
Well Evan, what's your guess on the price of John's leftovers?

John Stevenson
06-30-2006, 10:38 AM
No Evan the white is just generic cast nylon, the green is the Nylatroil or so the spec sheets say.

The white is just for castor wheels off fairground rides. There is one back of the tailstock, just a disk with two ball races set in, nothing fancy.
The green is again for parts of a fairground ride but largish bushes off some part of the hydraulic system.

.

Evan
06-30-2006, 10:43 AM
The 3" green round is about $30 per running foot here. I have no idea how much for the big stuff is but it will be roughly in accordance with the volume. We seem to have better prices on polymers here than in the US, perhaps because the base stocks for many of them are either wood products or natural gas/oil which we have in abundance. I recently bought 2" Acetron acetal copolymer and it cost me $17 cdn per foot which is about $15 us per foot. That is about 20 to 30% cheaper than US prices.

pcarpenter
06-30-2006, 10:52 AM
You mentioned that it is hard, so I may be way off track here--

I suppose the bronze colored flecks could be the lubricant that is purported to be in Nylatron.

In my effort to research teflon based way applied products like Turcite, I found that trade names like Turcite and Rulon were just that--brands and not a single product. They had many formulations with different stuff in them in different hardnesses. Teflon in general is pretty soft stuff. Still, do a search on Rulon. Rulon B is the stuff that is typically used on way surfaces etc and is teflon with bronze particles impregnated.

Some of the others were harder, and available in rods and rounds for machining into bushings etc., but the exact product names escape me. Perhaps this is what you have?

Edit-- just did a search....Rulon 142 is the way applied material...equivalent to Turcite B. A quick search on Rulon turned up literally dozens of formulations in different pretty colors with different characteristics :-)

Paul

Evan
06-30-2006, 10:57 AM
The two likeliest possibilties are some sort of nylon and some sort of polyethylene. HDPE is available in just about any colour. A burn test will narrow that down in a hurry as they smell entirely different. The link I gave to the chart lists all the distinctive aromas.

John Stevenson
06-30-2006, 10:57 AM
The 3" green round is about $30 per running foot here. I have no idea how much for the big stuff is but it will be roughly in accordance with the volume. We seem to have better prices on polymers here than in the US, perhaps because the base stocks for many of them are either wood products or natural gas/oil which we have in abundance. I recently bought 2" Acetron acetal copolymer and it cost me $17 cdn per foot which is about $15 us per foot. That is about 20 to 30% cheaper than US prices.

Here you are then Evan, a way out of selling computers.
Buy as much of this stuff as you can at $30 per foot and ship it world wide.
You'll be a millionaire inside 6 months :D

.

Evan
06-30-2006, 11:05 AM
I just looked up the US price on green oil filled nylon. It's $42.98 per foot for 3" round. That's in keeping with the price differential I have been seeing between the US and Canada.

http://www.professionalplastics.com/cgi-bin/pp.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&prrfnbr=85450&strfnbr=3&prname=Nylon%EF%BF%BD,-Oil-Filled

John Stevenson
06-30-2006, 11:53 AM
I just looked up the US price on green oil filled nylon. It's $42.98 per foot for 3" round. That's in keeping with the price differential I have been seeing between the US and Canada.

The 3" green round is about $30 per running foot here. I have no idea how much for the big stuff is but it will be roughly in accordance with the volume. We seem to have better prices on polymers here than in the US, perhaps because the base stocks for many of them are either wood products or natural gas/oil which we have in abundance. I recently bought 2" Acetron acetal copolymer and it cost me $17 cdn per foot which is about $15 us per foot. That is about 20 to 30% cheaper than US prices.



Something wrong with the maths here.
You can buy 2" Acetron for $17 cnd which is about $15 US so 3" green round at $30 cnd should be about $26 US at these rates but you quote $43 US per foot from that link, that's about $52 cnd, not $30 per running foot.

.

Evan
06-30-2006, 12:06 PM
Nothing wrong with the maths. Our polymer prices are cheaper than US prices, even with both calculated in US dollars. There isn't much difference any more between the US dollar and the Canadian dollar now. Going rate today is $1.00 cdn = $0.90 usd

I paid $17 cdn for Acetron at GE Polymer Shapes in Calgary a couple of weeks ago. That's about $15.30 USD. The price for the same material from US dealers in US dollars ranges from $23 to $30 usd.

Note: That link is US pricing, not Canadian pricing.

gundog
06-30-2006, 12:22 PM
It might be UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight plastic) repro material. The cost runs about 12% less than virgin UHMW basicly it is just scrap all melted together and you get flakes of different colors. I buy some parts made from this stuff it is mostly black though and has all colors mixed in I will take a picture and post it. I have been told it comes in all colors.
GD

Peter N
06-30-2006, 04:05 PM
Sorry about the delay in replying to some earlier questions.

It's the last day of the month for the 1st month of my new business and I've had a busy afternoon getting invoices out on time. Of course that was the easy bit, getting paid on time will I imagine be a bit harder :D.
Except for my customer in the US I hasten to add, who paid ahead of schedule. Thank you Coopervision.

Anyway I digress. Even, I don't want to appear a pedant but my experience for whatever reason differs from yours. It's not something worth arguing about but clearly we do see it in different ways.
On a quick search I can't find any green Nylatron listed either. I've never bought or used it in bar or sheet form, only in moulding granules, but I can see no reason why there should be any difference in colour between moulding/extrusion/casting grades.

Interestingly the current trademark owner, Quadrant, is not a name I recognise or associate with Moly-loaded Nylon/Nylatron over here. My recollection is that we used to buy from Grilon plastics which is now a part of EMS-Chemie. Perhaps its like beers that are brewed under license - similar but not the same.
However I am quite sure that it was always a dark khaki green, although I will happily admit that it was a greyish-khaki green.

On the subject of colouring moly-loaded material I concur that light colours would not be a success with moly-loading and would appear either 'dirty' or streak-contaminated, but this is of course hugely less pronounced in darker colours and a dark green is entirely possible. I don't believe the volume by weight of molybdenum in the polymer is very high either, and I would guess the range is from 5% to no more than 15% maximum. I suspect that the uniform grey colour comes as much (or more) from pigments as from the moly. Perhaps the green colouring we were used to came from one of now banned inorganic pigments? Speculation of course as thee is no way of confirning it.

Anyway thats probably enough said and I'm sure we've bored the board silly. Thats not an attempt to have the last word btw:)

Also, I mentioned earlier that I would post a picture of the colour charts and swatches so here they are. The camera can't really do justice to the colours but you get the idea. These are l standard next day off the shelf most common colours. The swatches are moulded from different bases, with some in polystyrene, some in polyolefins, and some in elastomers. I have about another 100 off with different elastomer hardness grades but they are all the same colour.

Peter


http://www.btinternet.com/~p.neill/Clariant1.jpeg



http://www.btinternet.com/~p.neill/Clariant2.jpeg

Evan
06-30-2006, 04:53 PM
I happen to have an old picture of mine on hand here.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/plastic1.jpg

On the left is Nylatron. The middle is graphite filled nylon, known a Graphlon, a special product that is hard to find. Makes great bearings for crummy conditions. The right is plain nylon PA6.

Allan Dimmock
06-30-2006, 05:26 PM
Friend gave me a few pieces of plastic the otheray and I am trying to figure out what it is.

It's green in color,hard like Nylon,holds demension well,machines cleanly and has bronze colored flecks all through it.

Some sort of metalic filled Nylon?

WeirdScience

Now look what you have started! You are being very quiet. Have you been burning plastic and been overcome by the fumes ?

Is this material just something you picked up, or are you about to use it for a project ? If the second of those, have you any way of prototyping or testing the intended use ? I'm reading between the lines here, but that may be the only way you will find out whether the material is capable of performing in the way you want.

Just an opinion, no offence intended to anyone :)

wierdscience
07-02-2006, 03:01 PM
Sorry for the long break in posting,been sleeping a lot last few days,tired and don't know why.

I was given the stuff awhile ago and I have used it for a couple projects,it cuts easy,but what really throws me is that it holds tolerance with little trouble which has me believing that it's some sort of hard nylon.

I'll try and post a picture of some.

Evan
07-02-2006, 03:20 PM
Does it look like this? This is HDPE but with white flecks. It machines very nicely, a little easier than nylon. Do the sniff test, there is no mistaking polyethylene. It smells just like burnt plastic :D

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/grhdpe.jpg

lazlo
07-02-2006, 04:11 PM
It's green in color,hard like Nylon,holds demension well,machines cleanly and has bronze colored flecks all through it.

That sounds like Turcite-B ("Slydway") or Rulon-147 -- bronze/Teflon/nylon laminate, often used as insert material for box way slides.

http://www.professionalplastics.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/19/prrfnbr/85513/Rulon-142