View Full Version : Shaper advantages what are they ?

Alistair Hosie
02-14-2003, 07:32 PM
I don't know much about shapers but have tried to read a little about them .Seems they went out of fashion for a while but are making a comback for the small shop having never seen one of used one I wonder if they are a good I dea or are they old fashioned and to be left alone.I undestand the principle is like that of a planing action on metal is this true and what advantage would it have in the world of milling machines etc. Please excuse my ignorance but have seen a couple of nice ones for sale on ebay recently. A couple of Boxfords/Southbend in the States quite cheap, and wondered if the would be useful as I intend to expand more into metalworking, and want to know how often and for what main purpose they are useful.kindest regards to my very good friends out there Alistair

Al Messer
02-14-2003, 07:48 PM
Shapers were invented to create plane flat surfaces: ways, slides, dovetails, etc. Anything flat. They use regular HSS tool bits to do their cutting. They are slow, a lot slower than a production milling machine. They give the operator a lot of time to think while he watches it make its cut. They have not been manufactured, to my knowledge, for over 25 years. South Bend stopped production of their 7 Inch Bench model in the '70's. Plus, they are an easy machine to learn to operate,in my opinion.

I'm very fond of mine.

02-14-2003, 08:07 PM
*Great for "odd" key slots/the size that you do not have a broach or end mill for.
*The only way (economically) to cut internal blind hole key slots
*Great for "shaping up" plastic blocks
*The vice and table make a good solid place to hold things when your main vice is tied up.
There are a least a 100 + uses,the above are just a few I use mine for each week

02-14-2003, 08:17 PM
What everyone said.

I think it's a shame that they are considered too slow, inefficient, and antiquated. For certain prototype jobs, they are invaluable. If I saw a 7" Atlas at an auction, I would buy one in a heart beat.


Spin Doctor
02-14-2003, 08:26 PM
Slower than a production milling machine. Depends on what you've got for a mill. Try taking .250 with a .010 chip load in the average mill in tool steel or Ampco 18. Sounds like the Engineer that told me they were obsolete( shapers not the engineer )'cause they only cut on the foward stroke

John Stevenson
02-14-2003, 08:58 PM
Possibly the only machine that can cut spur gears using a home made $1.00 tool to cut the whole range of one sixed pitch instead of 8 expensive form tool cutters.
In the hands of a decent user where time isn't the main factor they are still undervalued today. As in industry time is everything and that accounts for their demise.
Home shop useage is a different matter alltogether.

John S.

02-14-2003, 09:50 PM
I got an Atlas last November and have enjoyed very much learning to use it. A couple of interesting projects on it were cutting internal splines on a gear for my lathe and making a thread dial gear for the lathe.

I put together some simple web pages with photos showing what I did:



Don Kinzer
Portland, OR

Forrest Addy
02-14-2003, 10:14 PM
Slow, yes. Very low tooling costs, yes.

A shaper is oneof those "violin" tools whose range of abilities is limited only by the cleverness and adaptability of the user.

Mills are easier to run but for some odd reason a shaper is also the very best beginner's machine.

My official introduction to the trade was on the shaper when I started my apprenticeship.
I mentored a hundred apprentices or more over the years. Whenever I meet one it seems "Remember when you taught me how to cut a tangent radius on the shaper?" or some topic always connected to the shaper crops up in the conversation.

Yeah, I got a soft spot but it's also a great teaching aid and a production tool in the hands of someone who knows the ropes.

02-14-2003, 10:48 PM
I like machine tools and I enjoy owning the few tools I do. I would love to own a shaper but they are tremendously heavy machines. Not only do you have to find a desirable machine, but you have to be lucky enough to have available in your area for it to work economically. I love the "saved search" function on Ebay that will email me when one is put on sale in my region. I wonder what it would cost to ship a 2000lb tool to the UK. Because I can't afford new (or even most used) I am willing to chance those "pig-in-a-poke" deals. I can usually make repairs that others won't bother to do. Production shops are not in the repair business and when people can't find replacement parts they don't even try to make their own, even if it is basically a bolt or a bracket or whatever. My Dad had a saying. "If it was made by a man, I can fix it." My little brother (at 5yr) didn't fully understand this and once begged me to stop my minibike to pick up a dead squirrel for our Dad to fix for him. That kind of thing was just at the limit of his abilities. Very few people can fix dead squirrels and that is why they are so cheap.

02-14-2003, 10:59 PM
I found the shaper the easiest machine to use with a minimum of instruction. Even boneheads in my class could use it safely and do reasonable work. Setting the clapper box is usually done wrong.

02-15-2003, 12:30 AM
Shapers are great tools for planing I stuck a limit switch on the slide of mine so I could walk off and do somethig else while it worked unattended great time saver and no little swirl markes all over the work either.Also comes in handy to cut rack gears and you can make then any length you want.

Ian B
02-15-2003, 07:08 AM

I bought an Elliott 4M (18" stroke) in almost unused condition for around $140 here in Holland, complete with an original 9" machine vise. I can pick between using it and my turret mill for removing metal; where I can, I usually pick the shaper.

I pick up tools for it at car boot sales, about $1 each, and regrinding them is a case of a lick on the bench grinder. With practise, you can leave an almost mirror finish on work.

It's almost hypnotic to watch, and it certainly isn't slow at removing metal. If you have the space and weight's not a consideration (the 4M weighs 1,200Kg), go for it; I love mine. You get a whole lot of machine for your money.

Just watch out where it flings the smoking blue chips though...

Happy machining,


02-15-2003, 10:13 AM
Nice job on the spline lesson. I've got a buddy that has a small shaper collecting dust in his shop. Going to have to call him an convince him its an old slow worthless machine that isn't worth his time, then get him to help me move it. Thanks to all for the info on shapers, got to get me one.

02-15-2003, 11:47 AM
I've never seen one in use either. One question I've pondered: for simple planing of a flat surface, how wide a cut will say a typical 7" shaper take? I realize DOC is a factor... let's say about .035 deep. Or is that too deep? Also, I'm thinking of something like CRS here.
Also I frequently see 'mirror finish' mentioned, are there simply no visible stroke marks for the individual strokes?

02-15-2003, 12:15 PM
When I bought my first lathe,a 9inch South Bend, vintage 1928 there was a 8inch ShapeRite shaper in the basement. The person selling the lathe asked if I would like to have the shaper. I asked, how much. The reply was take it I can't sell it. Nearly broke my back taking it home. It's been well used in my shop. One of the jobs that I did was to plane down some plates of 316 stainless steel. At the University where I was working at the time they tried to surface grind these plates. They would heat up and warp and that was with cooling. No problem with the shaper. Go for it.

Mike Burdick
02-15-2003, 12:45 PM
If my memory serves me correctly....in a Library book I checked out several years ago on general machining, there were pictures with a shaper and some of the attachments that could be bought for it. Do any of you remember, or know of any, attachments that manufacturers had for the Shaper?

Perhaps some of you have some of the originally manufactured equipment. If so....maybe you could give the Patent #'s so the details of it could be looked up. Also, if possible, post a picture!


Dr. Rob
02-15-2003, 12:47 PM
Yeah yeah yeah...The squirrel, man- What about the squirrel? Did he pull through?

Ian B
02-15-2003, 01:44 PM

Not sure how wide a surface my 18" stroke shaper can cover (I'm away from home, so can't measure it), but it's probably about 14" or so.

On the finish; there are stroke marks (at least when I do it - it's still apparent which way the ram was travelling), but the surface is reflective. The tool I use to do this can best be described as follows:

Start with a cylindrical toolbit, half inch diameter or so.

Grind it into a round nosed tool of about 2" radius, with a few degrees of clearance and 10 degrees rake for steel (mine's hand ground - I'm estimating the angles). Get it as sharp as you can with a fine stone.

Mount it in a split square block with a 1/2" hole. Instead of aligning the cutting lip at right angles to the stroke direction as you normally would, rotate the toolbit 45 degrees away from your intended direction of cut. Now, instead of ploughing metal off, it'll shear swarf off in in fine spirals.

Set the minimum cut depth and minimum feeds that you can, use your favourite cutting fluid and finish the surface. This tool only really works in one direction, and is only for finishing.


Paul Gauthier
02-15-2003, 03:04 PM

really nice work, and like they say pictures say a thousand words.

Paul G.

Al Messer
02-15-2003, 03:56 PM

This week, I was machining some leaded steel, can't remember the SAE numbers, but I was taking a cut .060" deep and .004" feed and 42 strokes per minute with no problem with my South Bend 7" bench shaper.

Al Messer
02-15-2003, 04:06 PM
Meant to say that the school I attended had some WWII models still in use from when the school's machine shop was drafted for the war effort. These were big brutes--24 inch stroke and could peel off ribbons of steel that would look like coiled up clock springs when they hit the floor--they were about 3/4" wide and I don't know how thick--they were too hot to pick up--blue hot! Even though they could take such big roughing cuts, they were very accurate when the fellows were making 1-2-3 Blocks and Sine bar sets.

When I was in school, one of the teachers was explaining how the market-place worked by saying that supply was governed by demand. What I do not understand is with all the incrased interest in shapers that has developed in the last several years, why South Bend or Clausing does not bring back a home shop sized shaper to the market? With the prices they are bringing on E-bay, it seems to be a sure fire thing that would compete very well with the mini-mills.

Spin Doctor
02-15-2003, 04:49 PM
Probably the reason that SB clausing or one of the importers han't brought out a shaper of the hobbiest market is the fact that shapers while they do what they do in an excellent fashion they still only do one thing. You can cut internal keyways and splines on a vertical mill, you just have to do it buy hand. Now if some one came out with a hand opperated version at a reasonable price. Now that I think of it didn't HSM run a series on building one. And no lets not let this get out of hand like the Surface Grinder thread.

02-15-2003, 06:05 PM
I bought a very old 7 inch shaper for $75 from a buddy who decided it was too slow and old fashioned to bother with. I had never seen one operate but it is'nt rocket science. After cleaning it up and adjusting out all the slack, I gave it a try. I was simply amazed at the finish and accuacy you can get with such an old machine. There is no name on it and I don't know who made it. It came with a vise bolted to the table. The first thing I used it for was to square up an old rusty bar. Sure I could have done it faster on the mill or lathe but while it was chugging along I was doing another job on the lathe. I would not part with it for three times what I paid. But then, I have a fetish for old iron. Can't wait til I get a book on using the shaper.

02-15-2003, 09:02 PM

The atlas will take different cuts depending on the finish and tool.
With a "hook-rake" tool mine will take a cut of max feed (20 thous) by almost a quarter inch DOC, because I did that recently roughing out a piece of aluminum. Don't know the max, nor the max on steel as I have not pushed it.

With a finish tool, say a round-end tool with a 1/8 radius, I would take a lot smaller bite, and drop the feed back. That is what gives the mirror finish. The better you hone, the nicer the finish.

The atlas feeds from .005 to.020 standardly. DOC is up to you, but is usually bigger than you think it would be. About double what an equal-powered lathe would do.

Al Messer
02-15-2003, 11:45 PM
Spin Doctor, How do you cut a 6 inch long internal keyway or internal splines with a vertical mill?

02-16-2003, 12:49 AM
Ilove shapers I only regret not getting to use one more often.Another use is for squaring the ends of stock just as fast as a mill and alot more accurate.Also there are other less known uses once I set one up to stamp aluminum name plates,and like everybody says the things are cheap to come by I have more tied up in a cheap r-8 collet set than my shaper and vise.Thats another neat thing about them they usually come with a vise!

02-16-2003, 06:09 AM
A slotting head is used on a vertical mill (BP) to do splines and keyways.

I don't think a cheap shaper could be made. There is just too much heavy duty metal involved and it would not be cost effective for production runs. Hell, I don't know how they ever made them in the past as cheap as they did. If you stop and think about it, their really is more to the machine than meets the eye. It may look simple, but there was lots of thought that went into those machines. Just coming up with a method of adjusting the stoke length was impressive.

Maybe I just wax nostalgic - I don't have no stinkin' shaper! Yet. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Dr. Rob
02-16-2003, 01:30 PM
John Stevenson...might I ask about the gear thing? I've long been aware that gears could be made on shaping machines, but never really dwelled on it 'til now.

Lessee...okay, I can see how a back-and-forth movement with an appropriately sized & shaped tool would achieve the basic rack profile, (wierdscience, how do you divide for your racks?) but if we were going to make a gearwheel, we would need to index the blank rather well, and cut tooth-by-tooth. Each gap would have the same shape as the tool, which cancels the desired involute curve, most certainly so for a whole range of sizes. If we could provide some kind of constant but intermittent rotational feed, it would generate the gear, but this seems complicated. I've seen special cutters for the purpose, but they are no less complex than other gear tools.

Not contradicting you here, John. I just don't understand how it works. You on the other hand seem to know a great deal about gear generation.

dkinzer, the gear you made- is it straight-flanked? Or was the tool ground to conform to this profile?

[This message has been edited by Dr. Rob (edited 02-16-2003).]

Alistair Hosie
02-16-2003, 02:44 PM
Thanks guys for all the info sorry for delay in answering you all sooner have I been out of production for a few days but am well pleased with the response .I don't know if you guys are like me but I just love to see old machines brought back from the grave some of those old boys with all those shiney moving parts are wonderful it is unforunate at the moment I don't think with the limited capacity of the shaper and my ever cramped shop I will have to give the shaper a miss .It has been sold anyway so,I might as well keep looking for that elusive milling machine that is out there somewhere for me the seial number on ebay was 3311144416 if anyone wants to see the one in question best wishes to my dear friends . Alistair

02-16-2003, 05:06 PM
Dr Rob,

The tool was ground to match the profile of the tooth space on an existing gear. I haven't taken precise measurements but the general shape appears to conform to the involute gear tooth form. The teeth are angled across the face of the gear to match the helix angle of the leadscrew. This is a straight line approximation to the curve normally found on a helical cut gear. Given the gear's width and the low level of power being transmitted I think it'll work OK.

Don Kinzer

02-16-2003, 05:20 PM
'nother question from someone who's never seen it in action: how fast is the forward or cutting stroke? ...about as fast as a hand stroke with a file? or much faster/slower?

Alistair Hosie
02-16-2003, 05:38 PM
I felt a bit silly about originally asking this question as I might be the only one who had never seen one,I am glad thatI am not alone.It is the wonderful quality of this forum that shows in this type of question when all can chip in and both learn and teach each other so much well done to all for the high level of answering.Alistair

Al Messer
02-16-2003, 05:51 PM
lynnl, It depends on both the set length of the stroke and the set speed. My SB has 4 speeeds: 42-75-120 & 195 strokes per minute. The cutting speeds are 3 to 114 feet per minute. I usually use it in slowest speed which is about the proper speed for precision filing. There is a lot about it I have yet to learn, but it is quite a teacher!!

John Stevenson
02-16-2003, 08:04 PM
Dr Rob,
First off some clarification. A shaper usually has a simple ratchet feed arangement that indexes the table feed every time the ram returns. This feed is needed to make the operation automatic.

First the tool.
The cutter is very simple hence the $1.00 remark. It's just a vee shaped tool ground at either 14.5 degree or 20 degree per side to equal the pressure angle of the gear being produced. You need just one tool to cut the whole range of teeth in a given range of gears instead of a set of eight rotary cutters.

Now the gear cutting attachment.
Instead of the vise mounted on the table imagine a simple block containing a shaft and bearing or bush that is free to rotate in the block.
On one end of the shaft is a simple division plate with the gear blank fastened to it.
On the other end of the shaft is a Master disk which is a steel or alloy disk that is machined up to be exactly the same diameter as the Pitch Circle Diameter [ PCD ] of the gear you are making.[ ** see note at the end ** ]
You need a master for every size gear you are making but as these are just turned disks no expense or excessive time is spent making these.
On this master disk at the bottom 6 o'clock position you secure a length of bowden inner cable or bike brake cable. You then wrap this half round the disk and from the top you take it sideways and secure it to the frame of the machine. You do this to both ends.
What happens now is that as the table is traversed across the master disk is caused to rotate by the wire dragging it round.
To use in practise you start off with the tool set to depth if it's not too big a profile with the toll to the side of the blank. Start the shaper and select feed and the tool will start to cut one tooth space. As the cutter moves across the table the blank rotates and cut a true involute tooth space.
You then back off to the start point, index the gear blank round one tooth and repeat.

Unlike gear cutting on a mill with a form tool this method is a true generating method and it's possible to do special gears like the Fellows stub tooth gears i.e. 10/12 pitch and also cut specials like cutting a 18 tooth gear on a 19 tooth blank and they will still mesh perfectly.

[ **note ** ]
The master blank to be correct needs to be equal to the pitch circle diameter LESS the diameter of the bowden cable so that the true diameter will lie along the centre of the cable.

None of this is new. There was a commercial attachment made around 1900 that did just this but I believe this used something like a clock spring instead of bowden cable.
Some precision gear grinders such as Maag still use this wire method to this day.

John S.

02-16-2003, 10:41 PM
Dr Rob,I break the pitch down to a decimal measurement for the tooth spacing and advance the part over using an indicator.I have also witnessed an old machinist I worked with setup an internal gear blank on a large dividing head with a spacer made from a piece of pipe for the tool to relieve into.He also told me that you could easily cut spur gears mounted on a mandrel in the same way so long as the part and the mandrel were supported.He also said that helical gears could be cut by using a cam setup that was keyed to the ram,but this was seldom used as the setup was extensive.Also I once used a Betts vertical shaper to cut an internal spline in a large coupling those things were built almost exclusively to cut internal and external gears with great speed and precision they had a verticle ram mounted over a large rotary table that could be indexed by hand or by auto feed. The first job that I efer drew in a shop was to cut a 8" long 1"keyway.The shop foreman told me to make sure that I used the full stroke of the shaper in question for "better support" he said so I did just that and when I hit the switch that 48"Cinn.shaper came alive and shot its ram backwards and onto the floor!Thats when I noticed everyone luaghing their buts off!Seems it wasn't the first time someone had been told to stroke it back for " better support"! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

02-17-2003, 12:44 AM
Dr Rob....be aware John Stevenson is talking about gear "generation", not just making a one-off gear.
Generation uses the equivalent of a rack tool (one tooth for the shaper) and advances it to generate the involute, as you mention. It isn't the simplest usable shaper method.

The simple way of cutting a gear is just to grind the tool to fit a similar size gear of the same pitch and then use that involute form tool to cut the teeth. The gear is held rigid for each tooth space cut.

This is the shaper equivalent of using a specific range of cutter on a milling machine. The tooth form is (hopefully) similar to what you might find on the cutter that would do the gear range you are trying to make. It would NOT do a tooth form correctly for a much different number of teeth.

Generation is a lot more elegant, one tool (and accessories) makes any gear of the pitch, but it is also more setup work!

Dr. Rob
02-17-2003, 02:47 AM
Okay, cool. Thanks guys. (Darndest thing...I had a dream last night about reading the replies to this post, and it was very unsettling, as they were completely incomprehensible jibberish. What a relief...)

Anyway, thanks John; I didn't know about the ratchet mechanism. Or the Bowden cable trick, which I like! And intermittently resetting the blank for each tooth explains how a gear might be generated by shaping, without shaving away the previous tooth.

dkinzer, that straight-line approximation trick of yours works fine; I've tried it on occasion myself. I call it a gear mash instead of mesh, but work it does. (Can make for peculiar center distances though, in another scenario.)

02-17-2003, 11:58 AM
John's input, as always, is fascinating. Thank you sir! But, again as always, answers beget more questions. With that cable/form generating method, is the full depth of the tooth space achieved with one stroke? Or is the cut deepened incrementally? Does the full depth have to be reached before the sideways motion/cable turning takes place to generate the involute curved shape of the tooth, or are both accomplished simultaneously?

For that matter, using a fully form ground tool, I've assumed that multiple strokes would be used to incrementally deepen the space to its full depth. Is that the case? Or does it just depend on the DP of the gear being cut?

(all answers appreciated)

02-17-2003, 11:59 AM
John's input, as always, is fascinating. Thank you sir! But, again as always, answers beget more questions. With that cable/form generating method, is the full depth of the tooth space achieved with one stroke? Or is the cut deepened incrementally? Does the full depth have to be reached before the sideways motion/cable turning takes place to generate the involute curved shape of the tooth, or are both accomplished simultaneously?

For that matter, using a fully form ground tool, I've assumed that multiple strokes would be used to incrementally deepen the space to its full depth. Is that the case? Or does it just depend on the DP of the gear being cut?

(all answers appreciated)

Al Messer
02-17-2003, 08:06 PM
I would say definitely that each gap is cut with manual down-feed at a rate of about a depth of cut of .005" on steel, a bit more on CI or Brass or Bronze. Don't know for sure as I haven't tried it yet. Just basing that answer on previous experience with hand down feed in steel.

02-18-2003, 12:23 AM
You ain't cutting the whole form in one stroke, because you can't generate that way.

The generation process depends on cutting away everything that a standard rack would hit (interfere with) as it approaches, engages, and recedes from, the gear.

It is the same as the Sunderland system, except that Sunderland used a section of rack, and had several teeth being formed at once.

You start the tooth space by engaging the corner of the tool, and as the cuts are made, the indexing of the table turns the blank to gradually deepen the cut until the full engagement, then as it recedes, it shaves the sides of the toothspace to finish the form on the opposite side.

I suppose depending, you might want to gash first and then run a full-depth pass.

It could maybe form in one pass, but never in one stroke, since there have to be a lot of strokes at a lot of different approach and recession angles to finish the form by generation.

A form tool doing a fine pitch gear could form one toothspace in one stroke. Depends on machine strength and material.
A press uses a form tool to finish a whole gear in one stroke................

Pat S
02-18-2003, 02:51 AM
I ran a shaper where I used to work that was used to build WW II battleship armour. Conventional mills warped the plates too much. 40' table and 43' of travel. It is open on one side.

John Stevenson
02-18-2003, 08:18 PM
Sorry for the delay in getting back.
Had to sort a few books out.

Depending on the size and weight of the shaper it is possible to cut to full depth at one pass. However you don't cut one tooth space in one pass.
Because the cutter is straight sided you have to take many cuts per tooth space as it rolls the blank to get it to generate the correct involute.
You start off on say a lathe change wheel of 16 to 20 DP by setting the cutter to full depth and place it at the side of the blank.
Once started for each stroke of the ram the table advances 2 to 5 thou per cut.
What happens is that at the start the cutter is cutting on one side of the tool only untl it becomes buried into the blank. At 12 o'clock it will have generated a correct involute on the approach side but the exit side will be nearly vertical as it doesn't get generated until the tool leaves the blank at the other side.

Sounds really complex but it's actually all done automatically.
I have put a file on the web at:-

This is out of the Sunderland book. A Sunderland gear cutter works on exactly the same operation but uses a piece of rack as a cutter and it cuts about 5 teeth at a pass.
The picture shows the way the rack planes the teeth.
Because of clarity it shows the rack as rolling round a fixed gear. It cannot show the rack moving thru the gear as in practice because it will obliterate the drawing.
In our case imagine each of the rack teeth as the various stages in the process from the just started tooth on the right to the nearly complete tooth on the left.

I hope this has cleared a few things up and not furthur confused people.

John S.

02-19-2003, 06:01 PM
AhhSo! By golly I think I've got it. A clever bunch, those earthlings!
Seriously, I do appreciate the insight and instruction. I know it takes time and effort for you guys to construct and type in explanations such as these. It is appreciated.

Dr. Rob
02-19-2003, 06:39 PM
Thanks, John. Is it possible to answer this query in one word?: If that cutter in the diagram were, from its original horizontal position, moved a smidgen to the left and then started cutting, would we have induced a shifted profile gear?

(Second semi-query: If above said cutter never was BEGUN at its fully horizontal position, would THAT then induce a shifted, or corrected, profile? And, isn't that the same question in a relative way?

I like involute gear theory, and do learn a lot from you. Thanks-a-plenty!

Al Messer
02-20-2003, 10:42 AM
Does anyone on this list have a copy of the Workshop Practice Series booklet "Gears and Gear Cutting" by Ivan Law? If memory serves me correctly, he showed a simple jig for copying spur gears in a shaper by using an existing gear as a pattern/guide.

02-20-2003, 12:45 PM
Al, I have that book. Fascinating reading...especially a double eccentric device for making form relieved gear cutters. I don't have it readily at hand right now, but I don't recall any info about shaper cutting specifically. I'll try to remember and look again tonite.

John Stevenson
02-20-2003, 06:59 PM
Just got the book out and had a look but found no mention of shaper cut gears in Ivans book.

I've been a bit at sixes and sevens having just redone my office and some books and info haven't been to hand but whilst also looking thru backup CD's afer a reinstall of W2000 I found the movie I made some while ago of that cutter relieving tool described in Ivan Laws book as the Eureka.
I've put the file back on the web at:-
Not very good quality so I must apologise in advance but if you look carefully in the background you can see the chuck jaws rotating in real time. I set this up on the lowest speed so you can see it as clear as possible.
It's a staged shot and the tool is not the button type cutter but just a parting tool put there to show how it backs off per tooth.

John S.

Al Messer
02-20-2003, 08:52 PM
Told y'all before that I was getting senile.