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rmancini
07-21-2006, 06:48 PM
Hello All,
Quick question:
Where strength is not an issue but looks are, what would be the best rod for OVERHEAD welding on mild steel (angle iron and plate 3/16" thk).
Rich

rmancini
07-21-2006, 06:50 PM
OOPS !
Forgot to mention - - stick welding , AC and/or DC.
Sorry for the mistake.
Rich

torker
07-21-2006, 07:08 PM
7018....DC+. Standard of the industry..still hard to beat.
Russ

Fasttrack
07-21-2006, 10:37 PM
I like **6011** for overhead - once you get some practice with it, provided you have a decent welder w/ high enough voltage (voltage not amperage mind) it will make a nice bead. Plus the puddle is nice and rigid for overhead welding. It does take a little more getting used to to make a nice looking bead compared to 7018. Besides which, Torker is a pro so go with his suggestion :)


EDIT!! oh my ... i must be getting lazy - i seriously meant 6011 but i typed 6013
i didn't realize my mistake until i read bob308's post...gee whiz

6013 is super easy to weld with and it makes a pretty fluid puddle and doesn't require a higher voltage welder; for instance i can run it well on my little 120volt unit that only puts out about 22 ocv. 6011 doesnt work well there.

bob308
07-21-2006, 10:48 PM
6011 run dc electrode +. i have run a lot of overhead and virtical with it. 7018 is over kill for what you want to do.

HWooldridge
07-21-2006, 11:04 PM
6011 is easy to control and is fast-freeze - it is hotter plus there is more spatter with this rod and the weld will look like the "row of dimes" configuration - I use it for 90% of my stick welding. 6013 occasionally gives problems with slag inclusions and I never cared for it but if done properly, the bead will be nice and clean. However, I always liked 7014 for a lot of appearance applications and it will also work well overhead. Of course, 7018 will do an outstanding job also but has a fluid slag that takes some getting used to if you're not accustomed to it.

DC will likely run much smoother out of position than AC if you have the machine to do it.

studentjim
07-21-2006, 11:06 PM
There is no comparison between 7018 and 6011 when looks are important. Go with the 7018 as Torker said.

torker
07-22-2006, 12:36 AM
6010/11, I've used a ton of it...fast freeze "whipping" rod. Lots of spatter when used overhead and I'd like to see anyone make an OH bead as pretty with 6011 as I(or almost anyone) can with 7018.
Russ

Fasttrack
07-22-2006, 12:48 AM
6010 is considered low hy right? The biggest problem i've run into with 6013 is removing slag in the fillet posistion. For some reason it always sticks super well although the bead always comes out looking like it was done with a tig. Apparently thats not uncommon though; the difficulty in removing slag in that posistion was actually advertised on the back of one box.

"whipping" rod is a great description of it! I never heard that expression before but that pretty much sums it up!

p.s. notice edit earlier - i seriously meant 6011 earlier not 6013. i wasnt thinking; sorry :(

wierdscience
07-22-2006, 12:52 AM
Nother vote for 7018,it is hard to beat.6011 and 6013 are best at welding dirty rusted metal where you need a rod that digs under the dirt.

There is nothing prettier than having everything just right running 7018 where your flux curls up and lifts off the bead so all you need is a quick brush of the hand to remove the flux.If you can achieve that,life is good.

Evan
07-22-2006, 03:01 AM
That's why 7018 is called "farmer rod" around here. :D

HWooldridge
07-22-2006, 08:31 PM
6010 is not low hydrogen - it is the DC only version of the 6011.

The low hydrogen suffixes are: -15, -16, -18, -28 and -48. The numbers in front describe the tensile strength of the rod. I used to have some E11010 rods that were high tensile strength, DC only (like 6010 but greater as-welded rating).

quasi
07-23-2006, 01:30 AM
Thats funny Evan, here in Calgary , I have heard 6013 called farmer rod , a lot.

torker
07-23-2006, 03:33 PM
Even funnier...any welding instructor I've ever had called 7014 and 7024 "farmer rod". Easy to strike (lots of iron powder) and easy slag removal.
BTW,,,in the flat position 7024 DC- makes about the prettiest bead I've seen.
Russ

Randolph
07-23-2006, 07:13 PM
No question about it ------------- 7018

Millman
07-23-2006, 07:32 PM
Still boils down to this.....Just how good are you as a Weldor? Did anyone ever try Superrod? Welding dissimilar materials? Now, that rod is great. Wonder if they still manufacture it, and under what names?

torker
07-23-2006, 07:40 PM
If "Sooper Rod" was that good...wouldn't we all be using it...everywhere?

Millman
07-23-2006, 07:42 PM
You've never heard of that either. Torker needs a few more yrs. experience under his belt, to be the determining factor on welding.

wierdscience
07-23-2006, 07:51 PM
I have used "Super Missle Rod"which is basicaly a nickel alloy jet rod.I didn't see anything special about it other than it draws like mad and it's expensive as hell,$18.00/lb last I looked.A good 316L stainless rod will do everything it will and costs 1/3.

HWooldridge
07-23-2006, 09:55 PM
Many years ago, I sold Certanium rod for a few months. They had a "super-missile" rod that was essentially a high alloy stainless - I think the brand grade was 707. The sales standard demo was to weld two old files together edge to edge, clamp one in a vise and hammer away, trying to break away the free one. Nine times out of ten, you could bend it to 90 degrees without breaking at the weld. This was the point emphasized to the customer to close the sale, that high carbon couldn't be welded with normal rod. Certanium advertised all of their products for the maintenance welder - the guy who was not a weldor by trade but still apt to run across a variety of metals whilst repairing stuff. However, normal stainless rod worked about as well for less cost.

torker
07-24-2006, 01:56 AM
You've never heard of that either. Torker needs a few more yrs. experience under his belt, to be the determining factor on welding.
Milkman...my point....you missed it. If your Sooper Rod is so good where is it?
You don't even know if it's still made...says so in your post.
I have about 200 pounds of weirdo rod that was all supposed to be Sooper Rod in their day. So you must know why we all still use 7018 for most general purpose welding.
BTW...your so good...post a pic of your tig welding. I want to see it.
Lots of talk but zero pics to back it up.

Willy
07-24-2006, 02:52 AM
Still boils down to this.....Just how good are you as a Weldor? Did anyone ever try Superrod? Welding dissimilar materials? Now, that rod is great. Wonder if they still manufacture it, and under what names?
Everybody still makes it....the generic name is 7018!

bob308
07-24-2006, 07:54 AM
does tig welding make you a welder? then my first 20 years of welding was wasted.

now when talking rod only use the a.w.s. numbers that way we all know what we are talking about.

7018 is for high strength steels. [core10]
6011 is for mild steels a36 , 1018.

as for the 6011 spater yes it does but not that much if you are using clean steel the right polarity and the right heat. i have welded alot of trucks buildings together with 6011.

torker
07-24-2006, 03:56 PM
does tig welding make you a welder?
Nope...it makes you a tig weldor. BTW...a welder is the machine...a weldor is who turns it on :D
My choice for the best in looks is LA T-91. Runs a very pretty fillet but may not work well in your stick machine :D

Timleech
07-24-2006, 04:09 PM
I find it a bit strange, you guys in North America seem to just talk about numbers, never brands. I use 3 different rods all from the same maker, all labelled 6013. all utterly different.

Tim

Evan
07-24-2006, 04:31 PM
Hmm, maybe better quality control here? :D

Timleech
07-24-2006, 04:36 PM
Hmm, maybe better quality control here? :D

I don't think so, they are *intended* to be different but apparently all come within the 6013 spec.

Tim

wierdscience
07-24-2006, 07:57 PM
Here we get Lincoln and Esab rods for the most part,there have been some other brands I can't recall.

As to differences I have noticed a few,but pod storage/age has more to do with it than anything else.An old rod that has be in an open box won't weld nearly as clean as a brand new fresh box.

You might be experiencing the difference between commercial and diy rods,there is quite a bit of difference there.

bob308
07-24-2006, 08:38 PM
well torker we agree on the spelling. i use weldor in my email address. and everyone thinks it is misspelled. around here all the companies put adds in for welders when they mean they want people. but wait alot of them want you to work like a machine.

why does every one use the numbers? because if you a writting weld specs. it is easier to get the job done.

torker
07-25-2006, 01:36 AM
Bob...sounds familiar. Enter "weldor" into nearly any job search and it usually comes up with zero hits.
I wish all the rod mfg's would use proper numbers.
I gave several cans of strange hard surface rod to a small excavating outfit awhile ago.
Was horrid crap. A little too much of the smoke would make your nose bleed and it wouldn't make a nice bead of any kind.
No name, just "E68 Hard Facing"on the cans. I got a bunch of it at an auction. Tried running it every way you could and it was still crap.
The backhoe guy likes it...the price was right :D

Timleech
07-25-2006, 03:41 AM
Here we get Lincoln and Esab rods for the most part,there have been some other brands I can't recall.

As to differences I have noticed a few,but pod storage/age has more to do with it than anything else.An old rod that has be in an open box won't weld nearly as clean as a brand new fresh box.

You might be experiencing the difference between commercial and diy rods,there is quite a bit of difference there.

Having done a bit of googling, there does seem to be a difference in how these things are described depending on where you are.
I was referring to Murex rods, they actually make at least four distinct rods all of which are labelled as 6013.
I use three of them, there's a 'cooking' 6013, just sold as 6013, for simple stuff. There's Zodian Universal, which is all-positional but specially good for H-V & overhead; & Vodex which is pushed as a pipe-welding rod but I use for important up verticals, and for welding wrought iron where the carbon content might be a bit variable.

See:
http://www.murexwelding.co.uk/mrxcont/consumables/mrxmsmma.htm

Tim

Ian B
07-25-2006, 06:48 AM
Tim,

What are the Murex rods like for starting / restarting? One of my pet hates is having to beat a partly burned rod against the work to get it to relight. The Zodian rods sound like a good all-purpose rod; do you find them to be forgiving? (forgiving, in this case, referring to me being a lousy welder!)

Thanks,

Ian

(ps - the dividing head's still doing fine)

Timleech
07-25-2006, 08:21 AM
Tim,

What are the Murex rods like for starting / restarting? One of my pet hates is having to beat a partly burned rod against the work to get it to relight. The Zodian rods sound like a good all-purpose rod; do you find them to be forgiving? (forgiving, in this case, referring to me being a lousy welder!)

Thanks,

Ian


The Vodex are a pain from that point of view, Zodians are pretty easy to use & will work over a wide amp range - useful if you have a gap to fill ;) - but I don't find them as good as the Vodex for vertical up. They'll do vertical down, which Vodex won't, but that's an art I've never properly mastered with sticks.

Tim

Evan
07-25-2006, 10:26 AM
Welding rod specifications are based on the deposited weld metal, not the actual alloy of the metal in the metal portion of the rod. With SMAW welding the flux coating plays a major part in the characteristics of the deposited weld and the welding properties of the rod. Considerable variation in the welding properties can be produced by altering the filler metal and flux composition. As long as the deposited weld metal meets the specification for 6013 then it is a 6013 rod.

Timleech
07-25-2006, 11:14 AM
Welding rod specifications are based on the deposited weld metal, not the actual alloy of the metal in the metal portion of the rod. With SMAW welding the flux coating plays a major part in the characteristics of the deposited weld and the welding properties of the rod. Considerable variation in the welding properties can be produced by altering the filler metal and flux composition. As long as the deposited weld metal meets the specification for 6013 then it is a 6013 rod.

I appreciate that, but I remain mystified as to how you guys from the other side of the pond can refer to '6013' or '7024' or whatever as though all brands, trademarks etc are the same to use when there are actually huge differences.

Tim

JCHannum
07-25-2006, 11:36 AM
The specification of the rod is defined by the number.

The letter E indicates electrode. The first two digits are the minimum tensile strength of the deposited material in thousand pounds. The third digit is the position capable of making satisfactory welds 1 is all positions, 2 is flat and horizontal fillet welds, 4 is vertical down and others. The fourth digit indicates current and polarity.

E6012 is an electrode with 60,000 PSI tensile deposited material, all position, AC, DCSP.

This system is a standard, but manufacturers can make adjustments to the composition of the flux which can make the same number rod behave differently, and some do offer two or three different flavors of the same number rod. There are also differences between manufacturers, and there are as many differing opinions among weldors as to which rod or manufacturer is "best" for a given application as there are as to what is the best vanilla ice cream.