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BillH
07-22-2006, 12:52 AM
My college never had any cad classes and every time I load up auto cad I get mad at it and uninstall it. Im going to force myself to like it and use it as it is the industry standard, I'd just like the proper introduction in using it. In the past I went about it like pistol shooting, starting off with a .45 then cursing myself later on about my body flynching every time I pull the trigger. How did any of you learn auto cad?

SJorgensen
07-22-2006, 03:01 AM
In the short term what would you like to be able to do with AutoCad? What do you think that you have the most trouble with?

There are probably some simple starting points that you could learn that would make everything start to flow.

Are you starting with 3D or 2D objects?

Are you pretty good at thinking in X, Y, and Z?

I'll bet I could steer you in the right direction.

SGW
07-22-2006, 08:17 AM
I bought the book "Inside AutoCAD LT," started at the beginning, and worked my way through each exercise. About a third of the way into the book, I began to get the hang of the AutoCAD view of the world.

Once I got oriented to the AutoCAD way of doing things, everything began to make sense and be pretty easy to follow, but until then it was complete confusion.

IOWOLF
07-22-2006, 08:29 AM
Autocad for dummies worked for me, worth the money,got it for $2.99 at a book sale.

DICKEYBIRD
07-22-2006, 08:40 AM
Respectfully:)

Do you HAVE to use AutoCAD? To me, TurboCAD is much easier and will read, edit and save .dxf and .dwg file formats also. It's more Windows oriented and is available in different prices all the way from free (full featured earlier version 2D program) to very reasonable and functionally is NOT a cheapo program or early AutoCAD wannabe.

rockrat
07-22-2006, 09:44 AM
I used to teach Autocad at a local community college. We used the following text.
Autocad and Its Applications: Basics : Autocad 2004 (AutoCAD and Its Applications) (Paperback) by Terence M. Shumaker, David A. Madsen

You can use just about any version of this book so long as it is two releases from what your on. ie - An rel. 12 book will get you by on rel. 13.

rock-

Wirecutter
07-22-2006, 10:55 AM
I'm not an expert in AutoCad by any means, but I can do 3d stuff. I'm sure there are easier ways to do what I do - I've heard good things about SolidWorks.

I learned at work by looking over the shoulder of a coworker. Asked a few questions, bought beers after work. I suppose I have about 4 hours of assisted training time, and the rest was hacking about with the program. Once I got a little familiar, I got it all setup the way I like it - just like you might setup your computer OS and desktop the way you like it.

I don't have a lot of experience with the competing products, but based on working with AutoCad and what I've heard here, there must be a better way, especially for 3D stuff. YMMV.

-Mark

BillH
07-22-2006, 11:56 AM
Sjorgensen, I know my axis's pretty well, I actually do own turbo cad but I hate the way they implement boolean functions. Namely doing a boolean operation on 2 closed splines, it gives some wierd error message that I translated to, "Sorry, this is not a solid object, go screw yourself"

I mainly want to start off with 2d. My thinking is that while im in Florida, I want to design projects for a future time when I can work on them in my shop, namely model steam locomotives. I do want to migrate to 3d and I have tried solid works and enjoyed it very much but the copy I had, had a very annoying bug in it that I cannot blame the software maker for. Namely every time I started it, it would assume I was a new user and I would haveto adjust all the menus and settings every time.

****ey Bird, Yes, I do own turbo cad, It wont do what I want it to do and trying to find work arounds to make it do something is something I dont want to bother with.
Rockrat and IOWOLF, I'll check out amazon for used copies, thanks.

Wirecutter, I have tasted solidworks and I like it very much, I just dont want to spend the money on an education version that will stop working after a certain period of time, I dont believe in that crap.

Rustybolt
07-22-2006, 01:08 PM
Bill. Which autocad version are you using? My intro class last year was fun only because I had the textbook and almost unlimited time to play with the program. The instructor tried to cover too much material and by the end of the semester everyone was lost. I literally taught myself and just asked questions when I got stuck. There are exercises in the back of each chapter in the manual which are very helpful. So along with 'autocad for dummies' I reccomend the textbook as well.
Right now I have the 2005 version and I understand the 2007 version is going to be completely different from any of the previous ones.

BillH
07-22-2006, 02:35 PM
im using 2005 right now

tattoomike68
07-22-2006, 03:25 PM
I learned on Autocad rel. 10 in 1992 , back then we had dos 5.0 as on OS.

After a year of that stuff I never did use it on the job. Autocad is way overpriced , that why the pirates crack it and pass it around for nothing.

I think to learn it you use the help and spend some time playing with it. I like to use the command prompt more then the menus.

Peter N
07-22-2006, 03:40 PM
I started on release 10 as well, prior to that I used Generic Cad a little bit, everything else was on a drawing board. I haven't upgraded since 2000i as it just isn't worth it for the limited capabilities, and I've been using Solidworks almost exclusively since 2003.
However I still prefer AutoCad when doing basic 2D drawing, particularly since the dimensioning and layer features are far less clumsy than trying this in Solidworks.

As has been said, the best way to learn it is to use it, run the tutorials, and use online help.

Peter

BillH
07-22-2006, 05:38 PM
Microsoft.net is giving me hell with Auto Cad 2005, god does everything bill gates touch turn to crap?

Im trying solidworks again! This is crazy!

Wirecutter
07-22-2006, 08:03 PM
Wirecutter, I have tasted solidworks and I like it very much, I just dont want to spend the money on an education version that will stop working after a certain period of time, I dont believe in that crap.

Oooh, I hate that, too - drives me right up a tree.

There's nothing like a nerdy workplace for obtaining evaluation copies of those fancy dancy programs. :D Oops - did I just say that out loud? :D :D

-Mark

John Stevenson
07-23-2006, 05:55 AM
Bill,
Go to http://www.cadopia.com and in the top right it says download evaluation.
Go to that age and register, it's free, and once you get your password go to the download page and there is a manual on Intellicad which is an Autocad CAD clone.
That close all the commands work.
This is not a simple book but a full 200 odd page manual and well worth the download.
Be aware that it's about a 10 meg pdf file.

.

op9
07-23-2006, 08:51 AM
Try IMSI's TurboCAD. I've been using Ver5 for years and now 11.2. There is a Ver12 just out. I think they have a early version for free on their website.
In the early days I tried learning AutoCAD at night school and had TurboCad Ver4 at home as it was affordable. Trouble was I found TurboCAD easier to learn and gave up on AutoCAD. I have a ACAD 14 installed somewhere on here but don't bother with it anymore.

SJorgensen
07-24-2006, 05:19 AM
The key to using AutoCAD is in repetition. You have to learn a pattern of operations. It becomes a language or a pattern of operations that sounds like a language. I recommend that you always sound out the path to the tool that you use.

Aside from the main things of drawing lines and arcs I find myself constantly changing my "snaps."

I'm always thinking "Tools, Drafting Settings, and Object Snaps."
In keystrokes it is "Alt T" (tool menu), "F" Dra'f'ting Settings.

Alt T, F. It becomes a fluid keystroke path to the Snaps function.
Pay attention to the underlined letter in a menu. This tells you what will be selected with the "Alt" key combination.

I should just put an icon on the toolbar for this, but I learned where it is and it is a path and so I say this to myself very often. It becomes a sentence.

The keystrokes become natural.

Hitting "l" for line and then entering the x,y becomes natural. I have a favorite of the "point, length and direction" command of like @12<45. This draws a line of 12 units at 45 degrees. I use this a lot. Right click the mouse to repeat a command or process.

Mirroring and arrays and lots of other tools are great assets. Splines are nice but I wanted a French curve but couldn't find it in AutoCAD.
Repetition, sounding out the path to the tool, familiarity and using the help files.

I was trained on traditional drafting. I have thousands of dollars worth of Vemco scales and drafting machines and pens and dividers and compasses and triangles and pencils and stuff like that. It is crap to me now.

I probably will sell some of it, but I will always keep one drafting machine and my scales, compasses and pencils.

WHY?

With the idiot George Bush in charge, the United States will likely become a third world Country in only a year or two. I might not have any electricity or computers available. I think that I'd better keep some of the manual capacity that I have.

I hate this man George Bush for spying on Americans without warrants violating the Constitution of the United States. I hate him for authorizing torture in the name of my country. 30 or more prisoners have been tortured to DEATH because of this man George Bush and beyond ANY rule of law, and I hate what he is doing to the entire world. Blood is on HIS hands and blood is on Condoleezza Rice's hands, for failing to call for a cease-fire in the recent Lebanon fiasco. Innocent people are the cost. Her nose must be pressed into the blood of the innocent children. These kids are just like our kids. People in positions of power like Condoleezza Rice must say STOP. She chooses to do that at some future time. Those additional innocent lives are blood on her hands.

Sorry for the rant. Bush must be impeached. Please give me more Monica Lewinsky. Clinton may have lied about a personal matter but Bush certainly did lie about an INTERNATIONAL matter. Bush further SUBVERTED the Congress of the United States by purposefully producing falsified information regarding Iraq and he purposefully caused the United States to enter into a "Preemptive War" for the first time in American history. Everything presented by Bush et al, turned out to be WRONG!

Clinton cheated on his wife and yet he kept his marriage.


(For those who want to justify Israel for the recent war because of the abduction of the two soldiers, please talk about the assassinations by Israel of elected Lebanese officials around 5/26/06 and also the abduction of a Doctor and his brother one day before the recent soldiers abduction and also talk about the recent prior killing of 8 innocent Lebanese people who were vacationing on a beach that were killed by Israel.)

I'm impartial as far as Arabs and Israelis. I'm sorry that I had to interject this here. I have been studying this and I had to speak out. Our news media isn’t reporting all the facts. We are heading down the the totalitarian road.

wendtmk
07-24-2006, 11:08 AM
Off our meds today, are we?

Mark

BillH
07-24-2006, 01:15 PM
Well I feel a little better today, not much though. I found out my autocad and Solid works problems are related to only my computer! They work just fine on others, so I am going to reformat the computer. A bittersweet solution but long over due. God I like Linux SOOOOOOOO much more.

Zuesdawg
07-24-2006, 02:59 PM
Wirecutter, I have tasted solidworks and I like it very much, I just dont want to spend the money on an education version that will stop working after a certain period of time, I dont believe in that crap.


Solution: www.zonelabs.com monitors what comes in and what goes out.


Me personally, I have Solidworks and wouldnt trade it for the world. Once you start on it, its really hard to switch to other less visual programs

lynnl
07-24-2006, 04:18 PM
There's probably only one man on the planet that would jump from a discussion of Autocad directly into a lecture on the evils of George Bush. :D:D

Spence I gotta give you credit, you are entertaining. :D:D

BillH
07-24-2006, 11:22 PM
Well, I reformatted, and... SOLID WORKS WORKS!!!!!! Ofcourse I accidently forgot to place my firefox profile on the backup drive so I lost all my book marks.. argh!! But I am so happy about solid works that I dont care that much.

SJorgensen
07-25-2006, 01:41 AM
I know what you are saying. Last weekend I was watching the news with my Aunt that was visiting (She's a Republican.) There was a car accident on the news and I pointed to the picture of the wrecked car and I said "did you see that Busch in that car?"

She thought that I was trying to blame the accident on the President.

I was very surprised by the news today. Condoleezza made a surprise visit to BEIRUT! She's got more guts and more going on than I thought.

On the subject of AutoCAD I would recommend learning about Layers. Layers help a lot, especially once the drawing becomes more complex. I like to use colors related to the layer.

Another thing that is extremely useful is to use "Modify, Object, Block Description" or Alt M, O, B.

This lets you associate all the lines and arcs that might represent an object like a chair or a lathe or a mill as one object. This way you can click on any line on that object and drag and drop it as a unit. That’s pretty handy. If you draw a layout of your shop you can drag things around to see how they fit. Mine is pretty snug.

There might be some members here who remember how passionately that I argued with Alistair in defense of the Bush doctrine and the justification for war, and so now that I have been forced to see the truth, I have become even more passionate to share this knowledge to stop this lying, evil, power grabbing, torture authorizing, and deceiving war criminal. I've been exercising a lot of restraint here or I’d tell you the story of Margie Schoedinger or the story of what happened to all those Taliban that surrendered to the U.S. after we invaded Afghanistan. They were sealed into trailers in the desert without air holes. Some 5000 to 6000 surrendered men died in this way after we Americans promised them that they would be well treated for giving up their arms and surrendering. You don’t hear much about the disposition of those surrendered Taliban. We had the Northern Alliance do this deed. The massacre happened in Sherberghan and Mazar-I-Sharif in Northern Afghanistan. It’s the kind of thing that happens when the people in leadership of a country like mine have no morals and no honor. It is a shame on my country.

I like working on my machine tools and projects and watering my lawn but I now have a heightened political awareness that I never had or ever wanted before. I’ve discovered that awareness is very important. We can’t react or form proper opinions or vote correctly if we don’t have the information. I don't watch sitcoms or do crossword puzzles anymore. There is a propaganda machine at work here. Joseph Goebbels would be proud.

John Stevenson
07-25-2006, 04:32 AM
There's probably only one man on the planet that would jump from a discussion of Autocad directly into a lecture on the evils of George Bush. :D:D


Not really they are both evil :D

Having said that I find it tiring that with all the internet political and wierdo groups we still have to have this tirade spouted on this board.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's all it is, an opinion, reserved for you.
I for one don't want everyone else's crammed down my throat.


John S.

SJorgensen
07-26-2006, 05:27 AM
Dear John (just a small paragraph),

You are very right. Opinions are like ass holes. Everyone has one. But facts are facts. And future events DO grow out of the political climates that we all live in. We all have a stake in it.

All of the Germans who denied any knowledge of the holocaust before 1945 really DID know the truth. Yet they adopted a convenient attitude of ignorance. It was the politics of the party and generally it was easier to do. And if you varied from the party line in Germany at that time, you did it at your peril.

It was enlightening to me to learn of all the camps and all the crematoriums that were in and around Germany. We all know of the big name camps but the distribution of the holocaust and the small camps permeated throughout Germany and beyond, and into the backyards of all the neighborhoods everywhere. Who could not have known?

I won't cram my opinion down your throat. I don't even have an opinion. I would rather deal with only with molten aluminum.

But today was very interesting in American politics. The new elected prime minister of Iraq has NOT been at all critical of the Lebanese as they wanted, and he HAS been critical of Israel as they DIDN’T want. This is NOT acceptable to the Bush administration. They are considering stopping his speech to the United States Senate and Congress tomorrow. It is ironic that we in the US promote Democracy, and yet when a democratically elected official has an opinion that isn't in line, they want to squash it. If he doesn't produce the result that satisfies them, they will destroy him, even if he is a duly elected and sovern ruler of his country. He will probably be assassinated for this transgression.

What were they really expecting? The Neocons are simply wrong about the Mideast. Western style will not be imposed on them.

In Lebanon, Israel kidnapped 80 elected officials and has kept them imprisoned without charges, yet we are supposed to be upset about two soldiers that were captured by the other side? Then a Doctor and his brother or son (it isn't clear yet) was abducted by Israel and also they shelled a resort beach and killed 8 innocent people!

There is no population of people on the earth that would not fight the oppression of Israel in the face of the events and of the economic oppression, and the physical oppression that they have been subjected to. The Israelis act just like the Nazis’ did, and it is as ironic as it is sadistic. I'm becoming anti-Semitic.

I'm not all about politics. I have three new engine designs I am working on and I have a Johnson band saw that I am modifying.

Has anyone heard from Alistair lately? What about Thrud? Where is Dave Ibewguipsy?

John Stevenson
07-26-2006, 05:35 AM
Dear John (just a small paragraph),

You are very right. Opinions are like ass holes. Everyone has one. But facts are facts. And future events DO grow out of the political climates that we all live in. We all have a stake in it.

All of the Germans who denied any knowledge of the holocaust before 1945 really DID know the truth. Yet they adopted a convenient attitude of ignorance. It was the politics of the party and generally it was easier to do. And if you varied from the party line in Germany at that time, you did it at your peril.

I

Very true, I read up on this quite a lot.
It just wasn't published in "How to Run a Lathe " by South Bend
It was published in a book called Holocaust.

That's the difference, Holocaust is about the Holocaust, South Bends is about the lathes and at the top of my screen it says
" The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop BBS (http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/bbs/index.php)"

Horses for courses, you are free to read what you want.

Alastair's busy writing, I have given him 2,000 lines to write out.
"I must not be a clumsy old coot"

Ibew's over on the mental illness site.

.

SJorgensen
07-26-2006, 05:42 AM
Thanks for the heads up.