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RobDee
07-24-2006, 04:14 PM
I have an old surface grinder that I've babied along for many years but is finally dying and a painful death it is.

I was wondering if anyone had one of these or another machine I could pick up in the states at a reasonable price.

Thanks,
Rob Dee

IOWOLF
07-24-2006, 06:32 PM
Yep, I have one. Now what was the name on it? I forgot.

SGW
07-24-2006, 07:12 PM
Your query is pretty vague, to put it mildly.

There is no shortage of used machinery dealers in the U.S. Some areas of the country are better-supplied in that regard than others, however.

Here in the Northeast I'd probably try Plaza Machinery www.plazamachinery.com or Brothers Machinery www.brothersmachinery.com (usual disclaimers).

RobDee
07-24-2006, 08:18 PM
Sorry,
forgot to add the link!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD4TS/qid=1153767725/sr=1-14/ref=sr_1_14/103-1916556-7695033?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A2LM8ZC59IT9RX&s=hi&v=glance&n=228013

IOWOLF
07-24-2006, 08:26 PM
Been there ,done that. :D

RobDee
07-24-2006, 10:53 PM
Been there ,done that. :D


Ever done this?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l122/RobDee50/BalStf.jpg

Rusty Marlin
07-25-2006, 09:10 AM
Hey I remeber those giant gag penciles!

IOWOLF
07-25-2006, 03:26 PM
:)
Ever done this?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l122/RobDee50/BalStf.jpg

Shrader valves are cheap.:)

RobDee
07-26-2006, 01:22 PM
:)

Shrader valves are cheap.:)

It's not a shrader valve. It's a balance staff sitting on a standard pencil eraser. You can't buy one. It's a one of a kind, not at all cheap.

And prolly or "prol'y" isn't a word regardless how many infants mumble it.

Weston Bye
07-26-2006, 04:25 PM
And prolly or "prol'y" isn't a word regardless how many infants mumble it.

Oh-oh. Flame alert!

We try to tolerate some irregular english spelling, grammar and punctuation here. Some of us ain't completed our English majors yet. Others don't care.
Not defending IOWOLF, he can hold his own.

Wes

RobDee
07-26-2006, 06:28 PM
Oh-oh. Flame alert!

We try to tolerate some irregular english spelling, grammar and punctuation here. Some of us ain't completed our English majors yet. Others don't care.
Not defending IOWOLF, he can hold his own.

Wes

How does that work?

I asked a sincere question.

He made several posts here and contributed nothing and you’re approaching me?

“Prol’y” isn’t misspelling or misuse of English grammar, it’s nothing. He deserved what he got. Had he given a sincere response I wouldn’t have mentioned it.

As little as I like the word ‘prol’y’ I like wise guys less.

Evan
07-26-2006, 06:37 PM
It is a written colloquialism. The use of such has a long and rich history in the written form of the English language, especially when used in a conversational manner. I would hazard a guess that few of us, including RobDee, always speak with perfect diction and grammatical accuracy in casual conversation.

A.K. Boomer
07-26-2006, 07:02 PM
[QUOTE=RobDee]How does that work?

I asked a sincere question.

He made several posts here and contributed nothing and you’re approaching me?



Rob Dee,,, welcome to the wonderful world of iowolf (or UBjackle as i call him)

2,868 post (and counting) and nobody has learned a single thing, nuisance is the word that comes to mind, about as much fun as listening to a harley...

word to the wise, just say this and he useually gets the hint, UBjackle ---- spankin???


By the way -- nice work on that thing stuck in the eraser...

Weston Bye
07-26-2006, 07:16 PM
Oh-oh. Flame alert!
Wes

Correction: Thin skin alert.

RobDee:
By your join date and post count I see you've been here a while. Long enough know the personality and quirks of some of the regulars. Maybe long enough to remember an unpleasant thread where a poster's writing abilities were criticized.

Perhaps I'm the one with thin skin. I just would hate to have a lurker or newby be discouraged from posting because his writing abilities might not be up to snuff.

Allowances and tolerance.

Wes

BobWarfield
07-26-2006, 07:34 PM
So RobDee, you mentioned the surface grinder has worn out.

Did you buy it new or used? How well did you like it before it wore out?

I'd like to hear more about this model.

Best,

BW

PS Don't let the trolls here get you down. They are a fixture. Unavoidable, probably. They seem to be on most board, but a bit stronger here for some reason. You should derive as much entertainment observing the trolls and those who come to their defense as consternation when they're heckling. Just take it all as fun to watch, and remember, it's all free.

RobDee
07-26-2006, 07:46 PM
It is a written colloquialism. The use of such has a long and rich history in the written form of the English language, especially when used in a conversational manner. I would hazard a guess that few of us, including RobDee, always speak with perfect diction and grammatical accuracy in casual conversation.

I did several searches on the etymology of 'prolly' or "prol'y" with no results.

If you have that information I would love to see it.

I did, however, find this:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prolly

If we look up the word ain't in the dictionary we will find a definition. Some dictionaries will have colloq written after it. The long and distinguished history of the word prolly somehow has escaped Webster.

Again, I raised the issue here because it fit so well within the context of Mr. Wolf's statements which were, quite frankly, barren of any real content.

Perhaps you have come to Mr’ Wolf’s defense because you feel I am being unduly hard on him.
“If the shoe fits wear it” is a colloquialism that comes to mind.

As far as “prolly” I’m more then happy to leave it at grade school recess where it fittingly belongs. Should you chose to use it then that is your business. My personal choice, regardless of how many mistakes I make in grammar, is that the word will never leave my lips or pen.

Hopefully this nonsense is over.

Now for those of you actually interested in the subject of Precision grinders I’m all ears.

A.K. Boomer
07-26-2006, 08:12 PM
"Again, I raised the issue here because it fit so well within the context of Mr. Wolf's statements which were, quite frankly, barren of any real content."

Dude, there always barren of any real content, and remember his name is UBjackal (or jackle --- we dont git to perticular with spellin in these pards):)

RobDee
07-26-2006, 09:28 PM
So RobDee, you mentioned the surface grinder has worn out.

Did you buy it new or used? How well did you like it before it wore out?

I'd like to hear more about this model.

Best,

BW

.

Bob,
I got it from someone years ago as trade for teaching him how to use his just purchased but used JET lathe. I don’t know the name of it but it was before the Asian machines arrived here. The trouble is that the ways were terribly worn. I did some scraping on them but never really got it to the point where it showed any real accuracy.

I’m looking for a small machine. I don’t do a tremendous amount of grinding work but it is very nice to have when you need it.

PS Don't let the trolls here get you down. They are a fixture. Unavoidable, probably. They seem to be on most board, but a bit stronger here for some reason. You should derive as much entertainment observing the trolls and those who come to their defense as consternation when they're heckling. Just take it all as fun to watch, and remember, it's all free

My thinking is that type of behavior only corrupts and denigrates any learning or sharing environment. I simply don’t tolerate it. Hopefully they have found that out at this point and it’s over.

RobDee
07-26-2006, 09:37 PM
[QUOTE=RobDee]How does that work?

I asked a sincere question.

He made several posts here and contributed nothing and you’re approaching me?



Rob Dee,,, welcome to the wonderful world of iowolf (or UBjackle as i call him)

2,868 post (and counting) and nobody has learned a single thing, nuisance is the word that comes to mind, about as much fun as listening to a harley...

word to the wise, just say this and he useually gets the hint, UBjackle ---- spankin???


By the way -- nice work on that thing stuck in the eraser...


Thank you

Rob Dee

Evan
07-26-2006, 09:38 PM
RobDee,

I fail to see why you were offended. IOwolf was merely agreeing with you that he has made the same mistake that you made in failing to post the link in the original post. The comment he passed on the watch part was in jest as it obviously isn't a schrader valve and he also admitted that he wasn't likely to make one either. I took his statement "Nope and prol'y never will" to be an oblique compliment in that he wouldn't be likely to duplicate your work. I believe perhaps you have misunderstood his intent.

As for the colloquial use of "prol'y" it appears to be in common written use as determined by searching using Google. Dictionaries are normally slow in keeping up with shifts in the language.

Mcgyver
07-26-2006, 10:48 PM
Now for those of you actually interested in the subject of Precision grinders I’m all ears.

good change of subject :D

time flog the ball bearing horse again. These are things i speculate on but don't know for sure, perhaps someone can enlighten...in the arena of low cost import mills its clear that they are not using expensive ABEC 7 bearings. It may or may not be of critical importance depending on the loads and finishes that are put on said light inexpensive mills.

with a grinder on the other hand, i would think how good it is would largely depend on the quality of the spindle - oversimplifying maybe, but even if the rest is great, how good is it if the spindle isn't up to scratch? A high quality tool post grinder is as much as that machine and there's not a lot to them except the spindle, most of the cost being the bearings I'd guess. Do these grinders have el cheapo spindles and if so are you going to be able to get a good qualify finish?

RobDee
07-26-2006, 11:01 PM
RobDee,

I fail to see why you were offended. IOwolf was merely agreeing with you that he has made the same mistake that you made in failing to post the link in the original post. The comment he passed on the watch part was in jest as it obviously isn't a schrader valve and he also admitted that he wasn't likely to make one either. I took his statement "Nope and prol'y never will" to be an oblique compliment in that he wouldn't be likely to duplicate your work. I believe perhaps you have misunderstood his intent.

Mr. Wolf got into trouble with his first post not his second.

“Yep, I have one. Now what was the name on it? I forgot.”

Which I dismissed. It was only after his next post that I addressed him.

What puzzles me is that you are interpreting his thinking and worse you seem to think it’s your responsibility to defend him.

As for the colloquial use of "prol'y" it appears to be in common written use as determined by searching using Google. Dictionaries are normally slow in keeping up with shifts in the language.

What I think is more accurate here is that Webster doesn’t add words to its dictionary that aren’t established words. We simply don’t know how long this ‘word’ will be around.
It’s my personal hope that it fades into oblivion like many other words that Webster didn’t include in his dictionary.

My personal perspective of the word is one of a recalcitrant child bellowing it out shortly after expectorating his pabulum. The event taking place in unison with the flinging of his food bowl over the back of his high chair in one great sweeping action that leaves a line of food neatly spread across a newly painted kitchen wall.

Again, please add it to your vocabulary if you like, that’s your business.

Now one more time, do you have anything constructive to add to the topic of surface grinders?

Evan
07-26-2006, 11:20 PM
The comment on thin skin seems appropriate.

As for surface grinders, yes. I have plans to make a swing grinder. Has anyone else here done so?

RobDee
07-26-2006, 11:28 PM
good change of subject :D

time flog the ball bearing horse again. These are things i speculate on but don't know for sure, perhaps someone can enlighten...in the arena of low cost import mills its clear that they are not using expensive ABEC 7 bearings. It may or may not be of critical importance depending on the loads and finishes that are put on said light inexpensive mills.

with a grinder on the other hand, i would think how good it is would largely depend on the quality of the spindle - oversimplifying maybe, but even if the rest is great, how good is it if the spindle isn't up to scratch? A high quality tool post grinder is as much as that machine and there's not a lot to them except the spindle, most of the cost being the bearings I'd guess. Do these grinders have el cheapo spindles and if so are you going to be able to get a good qualify finish?

Good point.

My take on spindles, after building quite a few, is that, while the spindle is an important factor the rigidity of the machine is the thing that makes or breaks the finish. Even with ABEC 5 bearings you can get a good finish. (On my spindles I chuck the finished spindle in a lathe and tool post grind the spindle shaft in situ.) Although there is certainly a case for ABEC 7 angular contact bearings over the long run.

My concerns about the machine I pointed to was one of rigidity and castings. My thinking is that after all these years of Asian machines there have to be some suppliers who have gotten the process down. JET for instance has been around quite awhile. I do remember when these things started coming here and you’d walk into someone’s shop and see a lathe in the corner with dust on it and a crack down the middle of the bed. ( That was when I decided my money was better spent on Austrian or US machines).

As far as the spindle I might have to redo it but as long as the material I had to work with was good I wouldn’t mind. It’s sort of like rebuilding an engine on a rusty heap. Why do it?

RobDee
07-26-2006, 11:37 PM
The comment on thin skin seems appropriate.



Or answer 'B', I've observed other responses by certain individuals here to other individuals and decided to nip it in the bud.

How's that for a colloquialism?

As for surface grinders, yes. I have plans to make a swing grinder. Has anyone else here done so?


You have the physical plans or an idea about making a grinder someday?

Swing grinder? I’m not familiar with the term, pics?

Evan
07-26-2006, 11:51 PM
I have an article on building a small bench top swing grinder. This is a pic of the unit from the article.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/swinggrinder.jpg

Mcgyver
07-26-2006, 11:59 PM
My concerns about the machine I pointed to was one of rigidity and castings. My thinking is that after all these years of Asian machines there have to be some suppliers who have gotten the process down.

Mostly agree with you, I was more thinking that grinding as opposed to a mill is a whole new paradigm on what's acceptable - dimension, finish etc. for example 1 thou of tooling marks on a mill is fine, but those ugly bounce marks you can get when surface grinding, I bet they're a fraction of a tenth. I also agree that the fact that comes from asia doesn't mean that has to be bad, it was more the price that I thought precluded the high quality bearings - the question being are the bearings in those machines going to produce result satisfactory to you.

Rigidity is important but as the cutting force is low (esp for example when sparking out) that I'd be its more easily achieved than the spindle quality, notwithstanding it breaking in two.

I don't know what your grinder is and maybe its completely pooched, but if its just the spindle, may a rebuild would produce a better machine for the buck. on the other hand, if way's and screws and motor and everything else that's shot, heck a rebuild still might be a better machine :D

any chance of the dealer referring to some happy customers?

RobDee
07-27-2006, 12:00 AM
I have an article on building a small bench top swing grinder. This is a pic of the unit from the article.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/swinggrinder.jpg

I like the size but it would seem to me from the photo that the rigidity is questionable. The main post looks out of proportion to the motor.

Are the bearings in the base and allow the motor to swing over the magnetic table? Because if that’s the case then there is another area that undermines rigidity.

Evan
07-27-2006, 12:08 AM
I wouldn't build it according to the article. That just gives an idea of how a swing grinder works. I want it mainly to provide a quality ground finish on parts, not so much for accurate flatness.

RobDee
07-27-2006, 12:13 AM
Mostly agree with you, I was more thinking that grinding as opposed to a mill is a whole new paradigm on what's acceptable - dimension, finish etc. for example 1 thou of tooling marks on a mill is fine, but those ugly bounce marks you can get when surface grinding, I bet they're a fraction of a tenth. I also agree that the fact that comes from asia doesn't mean that has to be bad, it was more the price that I thought precluded the high quality bearings - the question being are the bearings in those machines going to produce result satisfactory to you.

Rigidity is important but as the cutting force is low (esp for example when sparking out) that I'd be its more easily achieved than the spindle quality, notwithstanding it breaking in two.

I don't know what your grinder is and maybe its completely pooched, but if its just the spindle, may a rebuild would produce a better machine for the buck. on the other hand, if way's and screws and motor and everything else that's shot, heck a rebuild still might be a better machine :D

any chance of the dealer referring to some happy customers?

I think the grinder is at the point where I don’t want to make a tool to make a tool. I guess I’ve just made too many over my life and I’m at the point where I want to do my projects. ( Make an electric car from scratch for instance. ) I don’t mind making a jig to do a job better but the last big tool I made was a three wheel band saw with an adjustable motor and a 25” throat that I do a lot of thin metal cutting on. Boy that thing has saved me tons of work and time but it took me two or three weeks to make. Everyone who comes into the shop wants one and I’ll die with it but I’d hate to have to ever make it again!

I may ask Grizzly or MSC (they sell it for about a grand more so maybe they don’t cut corners on bearings) for some testimonials.

I’m surprised no one here has one, they’re a nice size for the small shop. I think they come in around 500 lbs.

Rob

77ironhead
07-27-2006, 12:14 AM
1) I disremember exactly where in the thread it started, and getting late and tired I'll be brief....the spinde bearings in a surface grinder are important, yes, but not to the exclusion of the way bearings. my personal take on it being that once you start getting into .0001 tolerancing, it doesn't really matter how nice the surface finish is if the x/y ways were out of spec and the part dimensioning reflects it. the flip side being true as well, of course

2) that pic of the swing grinder is pretty interesting..any more info on maker, date, etc? It calls to mind a possible bechtop version of a blanchard grinder maybe?

RobDee
07-27-2006, 12:18 AM
I wouldn't build it according to the article. That just gives an idea of how a swing grinder works. I want it mainly to provide a quality ground finish on parts, not so much for accurate flatness.

I guess if you took light cuts it would be ok.

I'd take special care to balance the motor armature as any vibration would show up in the finish especially in a direct drive unit.

Rob

RobDee
07-27-2006, 12:24 AM
1) I disremember exactly where in the thread it started, and getting late and tired I'll be brief....the spinde bearings in a surface grinder are important, yes, but not to the exclusion of the way bearings. my personal take on it being that once you start getting into .0001 tolerancing, it doesn't really matter how nice the surface finish is if the x/y ways were out of spec and the part dimensioning reflects it. the flip side being true as well, of course

2) that pic of the swing grinder is pretty interesting..any more info on maker, date, etc? It calls to mind a possible bechtop version of a blanchard grinder maybe?

What I find is that small work doesn't suffer but if you try to run the lenght of the mag. vise then a tenth is more then these little guys can do.

That thing reminds me of a Blanchard too.