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View Full Version : Went to a sale today..............Sheesh....



J Tiers
07-29-2006, 06:09 PM
Estate sale, held by family.

The poor deluded woman holding the sale was asking 3 to 10 times more than stuff sells for. She got the prices off Ebay....

Box of a couple dozen drills, not new, needed sharpened....$80 Cigar box full, same condition, $140, with a few reamers in there too.

Odd misc fixtures, obviously single-purpose shop-made......$30 to $60 each.

4 tiny 1 or 2" angle plates made from steel angle stock.... 4 for $40

Worn out 0.001 reading Lufkin mics......looked beat, rattled a bit.... $30 each.

Boxes with misc, sold by the box, for $30 to $90 per..... counterbores in one, counterbore noses in another...... Not listening to any comments even though SHE asked......

She said anything she doesn't sell at those prices is going on ebay....... Wished her luck and left.

She had been assured by her father how much that stuff was worth back when it was bought , and she wasn't taking a nickel less now......

Oddly, she had a pristine clean showroom-new Rockwell-Delta radial drill press (the round post, round arm woodworking one) for which she was asking only $85. I know those are not great, but that seemed low, particularly given the other prices.

I mentioned that it seemed low, to which she replied, "well, maybe but it's still there, so it can't be that low"...... where was that thought for the other stuff?????

IOWOLF
07-29-2006, 06:48 PM
Yea those old ladys, once they have something in there heads,you can't pry it out with a crowbar.:D

tattoomike68
07-29-2006, 07:10 PM
My mom had me put some stuff on E-bay and she ask's WAY too much for stuff that just collects dust. If I had the money I would buy all her junk from her just so I dont have to mess with it anymore.

Some old women dont understand till they want to buy it. Then the truth comes right out.

beckley23
07-29-2006, 07:29 PM
Been there, done that, except it was the widow of a friend/acquaintance that was doing the selling. She knows that I buy and sell, but when she has prices that are way beyond reason, the nature of the "appraisal" became apparent. When she picked up a washer off the floor, and said it was worth a nickel, I had enough, and was gone within 5 minutes. The other 2 "appraisers" there didn't fare any better, and I they were gone shortly after I left.
Harry

Wareagle
07-29-2006, 08:22 PM
One of my neighbors has a metal bandsaw that looks like it has seen both world wars. He said he wanted to sell it, so I looked at it. The motor is froze up, the table is rusted to the point of being pitted, the tires are rotted, the bearings are shot, and there appears to be a crack in the frame around the table mount (looks like it may have fallen over). He only wanted $1900 for it.

It might make a decent boat anchor!

BillH
07-29-2006, 09:00 PM
Ah, this is what we call the "Ebay Effect".

Mike Burdick
07-29-2006, 10:45 PM
I don’t mind it when some “little old lady” or someone who really doesn’t have a clue as to a realistic value of something and over prices it – after all – I don’t have to buy it. The people who really bother me are the ones who DO know the value of something and then way over price it! They are just looking to take advantage of someone and their sole intention is to cheat someone.

On the flip side I’ve seen some nice things priced insanely low and some darn fool will still try and talk down the price to that “little old lady”. To me, a good deal works two ways!

Nick Carter
07-29-2006, 10:55 PM
A friend and I ran an ad in the paper saying we were looking for machinists and metalworking tools. I'd say about 80% of the people had prices so high they were close to new prices, with less than new condition.
We finally gave up after one too many trips that yielded nothing but frustration. A few times we did actually get something close to a good deal. But then again this is similar to the problem of uninformed people bidding too much for items at auction...
Now occasionally you could tell that someone was trying to screw you by pricing for ignorance, but often they were the people that didn't know what one thing was and priced it too low...

Too_Many_Tools
07-29-2006, 11:03 PM
Estate sale, held by family.

The poor deluded woman holding the sale was asking 3 to 10 times more than stuff sells for. She got the prices off Ebay....

Box of a couple dozen drills, not new, needed sharpened....$80 Cigar box full, same condition, $140, with a few reamers in there too.

Odd misc fixtures, obviously single-purpose shop-made......$30 to $60 each.

4 tiny 1 or 2" angle plates made from steel angle stock.... 4 for $40

Worn out 0.001 reading Lufkin mics......looked beat, rattled a bit.... $30 each.

Boxes with misc, sold by the box, for $30 to $90 per..... counterbores in one, counterbore noses in another...... Not listening to any comments even though SHE asked......

She said anything she doesn't sell at those prices is going on ebay....... Wished her luck and left.

She had been assured by her father how much that stuff was worth back when it was bought , and she wasn't taking a nickel less now......

Oddly, she had a pristine clean showroom-new Rockwell-Delta radial drill press (the round post, round arm woodworking one) for which she was asking only $85. I know those are not great, but that seemed low, particularly given the other prices.

I mentioned that it seemed low, to which she replied, "well, maybe but it's still there, so it can't be that low"...... where was that thought for the other stuff?????

Well you bring up an interesting subject...how should the uninformed price items they have that they have no idea what they are worth?

Many people use Ebay as a pricing tool...including everyone here.

Some day, we all will be leaving our tools behind and it is foolish to think that the people we leave behind will know what the items are worth. I have seen far too many people die unexpectly and the family left with the job of liquidating the shop. And before you say leave a list of what it is worth, I will tell you that method seldom works....from personal experience.

TMT

nheng
07-29-2006, 11:27 PM
JT, Those sound like the pricing strategies at the only two used machinery that we have around here. One wants $5 - $10 for used, odd sized reamers ($8 for new L&I) while the other will (try to) sell you a heavily used Jacobs 14N chuck for $125. Den

HWooldridge
07-29-2006, 11:49 PM
I try to stay away from little old ladies.<LOL>

I once did a gun appraisal for an elderly widow who said I could pick one gun as payment, as I recall there were about 30 in the collection. I gave her the numbers and she used it to sell the whole thing to a dealer. He didn't give her retail but I suppose she needed a starting point. I was neither paid or got a gun out of that one - and she went to church with my grandmother - oh well...

A few years later with a different little old lady who inherited a combined welding, blacksmith and machine shop from her 97 year old dad when he passed. Same deal, pick out something and it was mine for the appraisal. She then started complaining about probate taking a long time and I couldn't take anything out until it was complete - yadda, yadda. About six months later, it went to auction without me knowing. Fortunately, most of that stuff was junk so I wasn't too disappointed. He did a lot of well drilling and farm work so he had a couple of lathes - both were small swing but very long beds, I suppose for pipe work. Both were S-B and looked to date from the 1920-30's or before.

No more appraisals for little old ladies.:-)

wierdscience
07-30-2006, 12:32 AM
I have run into the Ebay pricing trap before.One was a little old lady that had a Monarch lathe forsale,it was a 12x36 WWII era machine in fair shape,but one had sold on Ebay and it went for $2200.She didn't tell me that until after I offered her $1500 for it at which point she got highly insulted.Never mind that she had no way to load it on a frieght truck,no way to ship it and was in a market that is 1,000 miles or better from a higher demand for the machine.I left it sit and it did for two years until someone hauled it off for scrap.

Some people aren't realistic and some get advice from people who don't know and take it as gospel.Another widow near here wanted me to tell her what a 1910 or so Rockford conehead was worth.It had a 5hp single phase motor on it and that was the only good thing about it.Coneheads are worth $300-500,this one was a $300 machine,but factoring in the motor I told her $600 tops.The response I got was "oh,so and so told me these things sell new for $20,000",I didn't tell her that he was full of it,I just saw the look on her face which I read as "he just wants to buy it cheap"and then broke the news to her that not only did I not want the machine,she would have to pay me to haul it off,that changed her attitude.Last I heard a local welding shop got it for $400.

J Tiers
07-30-2006, 01:05 AM
The odd thing is I was out of there with a couple small items that weren't unreasonable.... A drill gage for a couple bucks and a small adjustable square.

If she had had any clue on prices, I would have bought probably at least $50 or $60 of stuff, since there actually was some good stuff there.

Just funny that she was at about half price on that drill press, and wouldn't budge to INCREASE price.

But she thought a couple one-off fixtures 2" square, to do I know not what, were worth more than the DP.

A shelf load of them totaled up to several hundred bucks in her world.

And, she was quite nice, not a "little old lady", she was a sharp cookie of a middle-aged lady, the daughter, I suppose, unless the old man married a lot younger woman.....since he died at 92 she said. She had done the ebay research, she just had not grasped the difference between "worth" , "value" and selling price, nor the influence of local market, the realities of a 2 day sale, or the effect of condition.

Like the little Taig I looked at a couple days ago. I want a small lathe for little bitty parts. This Taig was nice enough, except that it had sat in the basement for 6 years.... and had a nice coating of rust on every steel surface....

BTW, I decided I don't want a Taig, I'd rather have a Sherline I think.... or something better. Aside from the rust on this one, the Taig looks better in pics than in person.....

nheng
07-30-2006, 09:41 AM
JT, I don't know much about Taig except for readings but own a Sherline (a bit older model) and recently bought three Sherlines to build special production machines. They saw pretty heavy production use for about 3 months straight and not a single motor or controller problem.

The motor and controller on newer Sherlines have a smooth, very low end speed with good torque. Their newer handwheels, laser engraved red anodize, are sharp looking and easy on the eyes too. The zero settable ones are worth having if possible.

Sherlines customer service has been superb. My original 3 jaw chuck was about 6 - 8 years old and only used a few times. It had significant runout and when I called them, they shipped me a brand new production chuck at no charge. Runout was excellent. Den

JCHannum
07-30-2006, 10:02 AM
J Tiers, if you are looking for a good small bench lathe, swallow your pride and add the 6" Atlas to your list. One in good condition will run rings around either the Taig or Sherline.

I would not recommend a Sherline for a couple of reasons, they are small and light and limited in cutting power. Every operation done will require a different accessory, available only from Sherline at an inflated price. They do not use common lathe tooling.

They are capable of good work, and people like Jerry Keiffer do excellent work with them. As a first & only lathe, they are probably OK, but anyone used to using a real lathe will soon tire of fiddling with one.

The Taig is a little better, but the Atlas is a true engine lathe, uses readily available tooling, that you probably already have a good supply of, and is an actual, thread cutting, backgeared lathe, while the other two are variations of the jewelers or watchmakers style of lathe.

Rustybolt
07-30-2006, 10:33 AM
This is common in all estate sales that I've been to whether machinery was involved or not.Whether appraisl people were there or not. People naturally think therre stuff is worth a lot. Reality sets in when nothing sells. Even Ebay is a leveler of sorts. Once she finds out that the top bid anyone is willing to pay is $20.00 for something she believes is worth $100.00. I do much better at flea markets.

J Tiers
07-30-2006, 11:15 AM
Here, most estate sales are very reasonable. I have equipped a shop from them.

As far as the small lathe, I have looked at the Atlas 6"..... No problem with it being an Atlas etc, but I really do not see any reason it is different from my 10" Logan as far as ease of operation and capability for making small things.

I really am looking for a machine to do watchmaker sized stuff.... Items smaller than 0.250 at most, and often smaller than 0.060.

That seems to be what the Sherline is made for. I might be just as well off with a watchmaker''s lathe, but I'd want a crossfeed setup.....

Levin and Schaublin are "a little rich" for my blood....... unless I find a crazy deal somewhere...

George Seal
07-30-2006, 11:17 AM
Every new thing of value I buy I put Date, source, & what it cost on the tool somewhere out of sight. I told SWMBO to ask 50% of what is marked. Buyer gets a deal, she gets money and buyer gets quality stuff (as I dont buy junk). If it isn't good enough to use then it's not good enough to keep.

wierdscience
07-30-2006, 01:31 PM
One other thing I have run across are the kids selling grandpa's toolbox.

You've probibly seen them,old crusty Gerstner or a clone,greasey from years of use,full of ground down HSS and CS toolbits a few drills and reamers,maybe some spring leg calipers or a old mic or two.

Then they want $500 for it even tough it ain't worth $25 for the toolbox:rolleyes:

IOWOLF
07-30-2006, 06:51 PM
OK now that we are on a rant,here is a funny one, at the swap meet yesterday I saw several of those 3 spoke aftermarket steering wheels,chrome and black or wood and chrome,$40 to $50 for them,NO adapters.I could snag them up at G-sales for 2-3 bucks a couple times a month and will start,now.

john hobdeclipe
07-30-2006, 06:53 PM
Went to a sale a couple weeks ago...the guy had collected a vast hoard of vintage automobile paper, plus some tools, parts, books, and some unrelated stuff. I picked up a box with 3 pr of big bronze door handles (18 pounds / pair), girl in the room said $12.00, so I took them up front and started a pile. Found a bar of bronze, 1/4" x 1-1/2" x 6 feet. Guy said $1.00, so it goes in my pile. Then the 4 copper lamps, girl said $2.00 each, they go into my pile. Good prices, huh?

When I went to pay up, gal taking the money said the owner (her sister) decided she wanted to keep a pair of the door handles. Then she doubled the price on the copper lamps, so I told her to keep them. Then she doubled the price on the bronze bar. And she upped the price on the brass door kickplates. I told her that this was a piss-poor way to conduct business, but she just shrugged.

I really wanted to grab the whole pile and throw it at her, but then I realized that I was still buying about 60 pounds of good useable brass and bronze stock for about $20.00, so I shut up, paid up, and took my toys home.

That was on a Saturday, and they were supposed to be open again Sunday, so I loaded up my engine hoist on the back of the pickup, and drove back (40 miles) hoping to get the Famco #5 punch press they had priced at $50.00.

Nobody was there! Doors locked!

I honestly and sincerely hope they choke on the stuff they had left over.

bob101
07-30-2006, 09:02 PM
People are picky about prices. I've unoffically help people price stuff in the past and I've quit because people can get their feelings hurt when you tell them something they own isn't worth what they think it's worth.

I've done a lot of guns for people and just because you killed your first deer with it with your grandfather 30 years ago doesn't mean squat to someone else and when you tell em it's worth $100 tops they get all pissy like your telling them their trash or something.

Sentimental value adds nothing to a sale and I see it in tools as well. I own probably close to $40,000 worth of tools of various types (metalworking, woodworking, welding etc...) and I wouldn't take $30,000 even tho some of the junk is wore out (some was like that when I got it heh ). But realistically I know if I had to sell it it's worth $10k tops at most.

Then you have the people who are truly clueless. Widows fall into this one a lot. They have no clue what it was worth new, used etc.. but "someone" told em they should sell it cause it was worth "something". These are the ones you have to avoid.

Too_Many_Tools
07-31-2006, 12:20 AM
Not to pick a fight here but it sounds like a number of you are far too used to going around and buying stuff for pennies on the dollar....and likely turning it over for a profit.

This discussion is one I have heard time and time again from my fellow salvage oriented friends....prices are going up because of Ebay, the price of raw material like metal and the shrinking supply as estates are liquidated/less people who build things.... the days of getting something for nothing are coming to a close.

I myself have had to pay more for almost anything I have brought in the last year....it's the price of doing business whether it is for my business or my hobby.

Has I asked before....how should an uninformed owner price things to be fair? I have yet to see an answer.

TMT

JRouche
07-31-2006, 12:27 AM
Haa, dont gotta worry about that when I kick my bucket around. My wife is always talkin about how worthless my goodies are. Stop by when I croak and you could get my Monarch 10EE, South Bend 10L and Bridgeport CNC for tenbucks, I'm not kiddin... :D JRouche

wierdscience
07-31-2006, 12:42 AM
Not to pick a fight here but it sounds like a number of you are far too used to going around and buying stuff for pennies on the dollar....and likely turning it over for a profit.

This discussion is one I have heard time and time again from my fellow salvage oriented friends....prices are going up because of Ebay, the price of raw material like metal and the shrinking supply as estates are liquidated/less people who build things.... the days of getting something for nothing are coming to a close.

I myself have had to pay more for almost anything I have brought in the last year....it's the price of doing business whether it is for my business or my hobby.

Has I asked before....how should an uninformed owner price things to be fair? I have yet to see an answer.

TMT

From the sound of the original post the prices on the junk were higher than the good stuff.Reamers and drills can be had for $6/lb or less at auction even today,they only bring $1.25/lb as scrap.I have seen it several times where people think they have a fortune in tooling,but half of it is carbon steel from 1900 and is basicaly worthless.My last post I mentioned the dirty Gerstner box full of old mics and ground up toolbits and people wanting $500 for them,well if you say any different they think you are trying to screw them.It's not my fault that buckets of old mics go for $40 at auction and it's not my fault that new toolbits are less than the 3/8" long nubs they are trying to hock.

As for prices getting higher it's only because people pay too much.Nearly all of the auctions this year have been dominated by people paying MORE THAN NEW PRICE.A seller asking for more than it's worth I can see,a buyer paying more than a new one cost is just stupid.It is a real mentality people have that if it's an auction it must be a deal right?

People never shop around,sellers never shop around either.

To answer your question a seller can do the same thing I do before I sell or for that matter even buy,SHOP AROUND.

If I have something to sell on Ebay the first thing I do is see what similar items on ebay sell for,that way I know what to expect or if it's even worth listing.

It is true that a sucker is born everyday,it is also true that more and more two suckers get together and do something stupid like sell and buy a $500 box of crap.

Milacron of PM
07-31-2006, 12:54 AM
As for prices getting higher it's only because people pay too much.Nearly all of the auctions this year have been dominated by people paying MORE THAN NEW PRICE.A seller asking for more than it's worth I can see,a buyer paying more than a new one cost is just stupid.It is a real mentality people have that if it's an auction it must be a deal right?



I was at an auction in Jacksonville, FL yesterday where a guy bid $400 (plus 10 percent) for a pair of rusty forklift fork extensions. I knew that was more than they cost new, but wasn't sure just how much the new ones were...just looked in C&H catalog and the same width, length and capacity, brand new are $250.

The same idiot bid $5,000 (here again, plus 10 percent) for a 1970's Clark 5K capacity solid tire gas forklift ! It looked clean and was very low hours, but still that's about double what it's worth.

bob101
07-31-2006, 03:16 AM
The problem is not Ebay....it's HOW people use Ebay to determine their price.

People don't look at completed auctions of similar items and see how much they sold for...they punch in whatever they have in search and see 10 items and 5 have buy it now and they average that and that's the price they come up with.

Problem is that item may have to be relisted multiple times before it sells or brought down in price many times.

I know many people here constantly watch ebay and look at how much machinery either doesn't sell because the minimum bid is too high etc...yet that's the number people who don't know much about the market of the item they have uses to set the price.

I just bought a brand new Miller welder after looking at ebay for a few weeks. I'd say probably a good 20% of the ones on ebay like I wanted were within 5% of the price of a new one and some MORE. I wound up buying it new since I couldn't see paying within 10% new prices for used.

bob101
07-31-2006, 03:21 AM
Not to pick a fight here but it sounds like a number of you are far too used to going around and buying stuff for pennies on the dollar....and likely turning it over for a profit.

This discussion is one I have heard time and time again from my fellow salvage oriented friends....prices are going up because of Ebay, the price of raw material like metal and the shrinking supply as estates are liquidated/less people who build things.... the days of getting something for nothing are coming to a close.

I myself have had to pay more for almost anything I have brought in the last year....it's the price of doing business whether it is for my business or my hobby.

Has I asked before....how should an uninformed owner price things to be fair? I have yet to see an answer.

TMT

The price of raw materials TODAY is not driving up the price of 20 year reamers etc...

The reason you get stuff like that for pennies on the dollar at auctions is because...

1. They don't even know what it is so they box it in a lot.
2. You only get a percentage of them that are actually usuable.
3. If you wish to resell them you have to go thru and sort/clean/label them$$$.

You might have an argument if your talking someone looking to unload tons of the stuff but not a box small enough for a person to lift.

Milacron of PM
07-31-2006, 08:38 AM
The problem is not Ebay....it's HOW people use Ebay to determine their price.

People don't look at completed auctions of similar items and see how much they sold for...they punch in whatever they have in search and see 10 items and 5 have buy it now and they average that and that's the price they come up with.

Problem is that item may have to be relisted multiple times before it sells or brought down in price many times.


Although the widows and such discussed here might be making that mistake, you have no way of knowing that to be the case with certainty. A more important concept and more likely mistake to getting the prices wrong is "Devil in the Details".

There are $200 Bridgeport mills, and there are $9,000 Bridgeport mills, or example and to the casual observer the two might look nearly identical except the $9,000 one might look more "shiney" perhaps.

J Tiers
07-31-2006, 09:02 AM
Another factor is "collectors".....

They value items for their "brand", and somewhat independent of condition, at least condition as a real user would count it.

So an "old good brand" drill bit, even if dull and maybe bent, is priced by the optimistic seller at more than a perfectly good new one can be bought for. The reasoning or assumption is that the brand drastically affects price.

This is NOT good for one who wants to use the thing, but OK for a collector (assuming anyone actually collects drill bits).

Then there is the "specialty" adder..... "ooohhh... those are 'special' MACHINIST'S tools, yah, THOSE are worth 'real money'...... don't let anyone talk you down on your price for those....."

Or the "I bought these for $200 in 1965, so they must be 'worth' $150 now, after all tehy are perfectly good" deal.... Nope, sorry, whatever they are "worth" is meaningless, since you are selling them here and now, and nobody here and now wants to buy them for that.

As far as the pennies on teh dollar? Sure. And NO I am not wanting to re-sell.

The pennies on teh dollar are because the stuff is to some extent a drug on the market.... few people want it. No commercial shop wants a box of ordinary dull drill bits. If they were some specialty type, maybe they would be worth sharpening...

But a box of drills that are dull, worn, slightly rusty, maybe bent and unusable.....half of which will drill way off size, need to be cropped an inch, etc.... NO I am not gonna pay 3/4, nor 1/2, nor 1/4 of what you paid umpty-bump years ago. I am not interested in what you paid, that is your problem, and in any case, you already got your money's worth from them.

What we are talking about here is salvage, or "residual" value. The stuff is fully depreciated.

Plus, with many of you here talking up CNC and manual machinng being old, dead stuff.....the price for manual tooling should be scrap......

Mcostello
07-31-2006, 11:20 PM
Went to a fellows shop to look around. He had one of those big pickup trucks from yesteryear. Huge tires, huge body. Steering wheel that must have been 1/2 again as big as steering wheels on modern pickup trucks. No power steering, had to order special that way, so factory put on a big wheel. He said he was trying to trade "even up" for a new pickup because his was twice the truck that the new ones were. Dealers laughing and he did not understand why.

Elninio
08-02-2006, 04:42 AM
Some day, we all will be leaving our tools behind and it is foolish to think that the people we leave behind will know what the items are worth. I have seen far too many people die unexpectly and the family left with the job of liquidating the shop. And before you say leave a list of what it is worth, I will tell you that method seldom works....from personal experience.

TMT

A friend of my dad's who owned a automobile repair shop had a stroke, and he was renting the place. Poor guy was in a coma for about 2 months, but his wife didnt realise the value of his tools and the person that owned the garage got ALL of his tools including a brand new disc brake lathe.

Rustybolt
08-02-2006, 10:14 AM
Here's my opinion. Ebay is a leveler. Some stuff on ebay goes for rediculously high prices, comparatively. I'm spoiled because here in the rust belt we can pick up used machine tools cheaply compared to ,say, Pheonix. So I list a 2" belt sander I got at auction for $20.00 and it gets sold on ebay for $80.00 even though ,around here, they go for $40.00 all day long.Some stuff just isn't available at any price in some parts of the country.
I see guys at auction wandering around with a J&L catalog comparing new prices to what they see on the block. Big mistake in my opinion. I don't compete with those guys when something goes on the bock. They will bid up the item. They're only concern is that they got it for less than new.Even if it's only $10.00 less than new. My job at an auction is to get it for a little as I can. I've seen guys bid bid more than new prices for decent machinery. Why? Because they could have it in their shop and making parts the next afternoon instead of waiting months for a machine from the factory.
This doesn't include collectors who are just plain goofy and will pay anything for their hobby. And just about anything is collectable to somebody. Cardinal spin fishing reels made in the sixties seventies and eighties command big prices especially the 3s and 4s. I bought 4 No. 3s in 1984 for 32.50 each on sale. I was offered over $100.00 for the one I was fishing with last year. Goofy.
Then there is 'I got to have it, now.' We've all been there. We've all done it. I got some not so new oddball boring heads at not so great prices because I convinced myself that I "needed" one with more capacity.

J Tiers
08-02-2006, 01:44 PM
Went to a fellows shop to look around. He had one of those big pickup trucks from yesteryear. Huge tires, huge body. Steering wheel that must have been 1/2 again as big as steering wheels on modern pickup trucks. No power steering, had to order special that way, so factory put on a big wheel. He said he was trying to trade "even up" for a new pickup because his was twice the truck that the new ones were. Dealers laughing and he did not understand why.

Yep.... sometimes reality is so different and unacceptable from the expectation that people just ignore it.......

Maybe the dealer should have agreed...... even up, in dollars of original price...... no inflation allowance. Dollar figure right off the original invoice.

That might actually have worked well for the dealer, since the owner probably only paid about $1200 new if it is as old as you make it sound....... and dealer could turn around and sell it as an antique vehicle.

Evan
08-02-2006, 02:10 PM
This doesn't include collectors who are just plain goofy and will pay anything for their hobby. And just about anything is collectable to somebody.

You have that right. I went to an estate auction last year at a farm. There was a massive amount of machinery and old motors. There was one pallet with about seven 5 to 10 horse Wisconsin and Briggs motors, all spun freely with compression and seemed in used but reasonable shape. They went for $25 apiece. Another pallet held a dozen little iron horse washing machine motors in all states. They went for $125 each.

J Tiers
08-02-2006, 02:38 PM
Another pallet held a dozen little iron horse washing machine motors in all states. They went for $125 each.

Heh! I have a couple of those, Johnson Iron Horse..... I think I paid about $25 each.... One bought from a guy who was convinced it was a Maytag......

If true it might have raised the value, those seem to be like S-B, everyone knows the name.

Now if those motors had the flexible exhaust pipe etc with them, they might have been "worth" more to collectors... No accounting for taste.

IOWOLF
08-02-2006, 03:12 PM
Maytags around here go for $100 to $150, running.

john hobdeclipe
08-02-2006, 06:59 PM
I think too many people rely on eBay as a pricing tool, without thinking about the limitations. When you search eBay and look at prices realized for a certain item, you're only seeing what sold in the last 30 days. And unless you take the time to look at all the ads, you don't know to what extent condition influenced the prices. Nor do you know to what extent shipping costs influenced the final price. Nor do you know to what extent the price was influenced by similar items sold just before the last ones on the search list. And there are many other factors that influence the final selling price but have nothing to do with the actual value of the item. Seller's feedback rating, accurate descriptions with good pix, number of other similar or identical items being sold at the same time, etc., etc.

I have a lot on eBay closing out tonight that I have listed perhaps a dozen times over the past 4 years, without as much as a nibble. Now I have 3 people bidding it up. So when it sells, anyone with a similar item who wants to base their "value" on what I get tonight won't know about all the times I got NOTHING.

Early in my time of selling on eBay I realized that it has two major advantages to offer: One, I have access to a world full of intelligent well informed buyers. Two, I have access to a world full of complete idiots.

Too_Many_Tools
04-23-2010, 04:08 PM
Rereading this discussion after time has passed raises the question...is Ebay the "pricing guide" that it was several years ago?

I can't say one way or another...

TMT

Liger Zero
04-23-2010, 04:19 PM
I managed to get some decent (for my uses) turning inserts and endmills off of Craigslist about six months back, and a few other important tools that I had to have "like right now." One was a dial indicator.

Figure gas to go get them = shipping & handling... having it in hand two hours after the first call.. yeah it was worth it to me.


About $50 for 200 inserts and holders (some of which were useless to me, I passed them on to a friend) and about 20 endmills still in tube for $50. All still sealed and waxed.

The tools, haven't paid more than $50 for a tool, and that was a height-gauge to replace one the cat knocked over. $50 it was good enough to continue production until I could afford a new one.



Never run into an estate sale selling machine tools. Old people around here don't sell that kind of stuff I guess. ;)

Black_Moons
04-23-2010, 05:46 PM
As far as the small lathe, I have looked at the Atlas 6"..... No problem with it being an Atlas etc, but I really do not see any reason it is different from my 10" Logan as far as ease of operation and capability for making small things.

I really am looking for a machine to do watchmaker sized stuff.... Items smaller than 0.250 at most, and often smaller than 0.060.

That seems to be what the Sherline is made for. I might be just as well off with a watchmaker''s lathe, but I'd want a crossfeed setup.....


This is actualy the size you DO need a special lathe for.
Not because of the tooling, or resolution or accuracy of the machine
but because of the spindle speed. Turning objects that small you'll want high RPM's in the 1000~10,000 range over all else.
Your typical larger lathe stops at like 2000rpm~, unless you spend real good money on one.

Black_Moons
04-23-2010, 05:53 PM
There are $200 Bridgeport mills, and there are $9,000 Bridgeport mills, or example and to the casual observer the two might look nearly identical except the $9,000 one might look more "shiney" perhaps.

Shiny Eh?
*goes out and gets his angle grinder with the knoted wire wheel* Now where to find a $200 bridgeport and someone stupid enough to buy it for $9000 because its shiny...

What? thats not how to recondition rusted out ways and table surfaces and gears? oh well.

Rustybolt
04-23-2010, 08:07 PM
" A thing is worth what that thing will bring."

Machine tools and machine tooling are going for junk prices. I've had machinery dealer calling me asking if I had anything to sell. They're stocking up. What they don't realize is that with 20% unemployment they are going to be sitting on that stuff for a long time.
Just recently I sold a miller 250 Synchrowave that was only a year old for 1500.00 an old Miller "tombstone" with seperate HF went for .99. Yep 99 cents.
Noone would even bid on several industrial floor model drill presses.
3 phase 8 inch like new baldor bench grinder on the factory stand sold for
$200.00
Would I like to get more? Sure, but everybody is sitting on their wallets and it costs to store this stuff.
If you have cash and are willing to travel to get deals the stuff is out there.

Too_Many_Tools
04-23-2010, 09:14 PM
" A thing is worth what that thing will bring."

Machine tools and machine tooling are going for junk prices. I've had machinery dealer calling me asking if I had anything to sell. They're stocking up. What they don't realize is that with 20% unemployment they are going to be sitting on that stuff for a long time.
Just recently I sold a miller 250 Synchrowave that was only a year old for 1500.00 an old Miller "tombstone" with seperate HF went for .99. Yep 99 cents.
Noone would even bid on several industrial floor model drill presses.
3 phase 8 inch like new baldor bench grinder on the factory stand sold for
$200.00
Would I like to get more? Sure, but everybody is sitting on their wallets and it costs to store this stuff.
If you have cash and are willing to travel to get deals the stuff is out there.

Care to provide links to these bargains?

I am not seeing these prices...not even close.

TMT

J Tiers
04-23-2010, 10:57 PM
This is actualy the size you DO need a special lathe for.
Not because of the tooling, or resolution or accuracy of the machine
but because of the spindle speed. Turning objects that small you'll want high RPM's in the 1000~10,000 range over all else.
Your typical larger lathe stops at like 2000rpm~, unless you spend real good money on one.

Not actually that "required" although it probably would be helpful for volume production..........

Fast, sure, but I now DO have a watchmaker's lathe, and I HAVE made parts with features down to the 0.01" diameter on it, and with it's plain bearings it ain't gonna go 10,000 rpm. I didn't run it anywhere near that, but I "got there" with gravers and so forth rather quickly...... I was surprised.

Rustybolt
04-24-2010, 12:21 PM
Care to provide links to these bargains?

I am not seeing these prices...not even close.

TMT

I'm seeing those prices at auctions and on craigslist and ebay. My friend is supposed to be getting a couple of toolrooms worth of stuff. I'll PM you when it arrives.

dr pepper
04-25-2010, 03:56 AM
I listed an old compressor on ebay with a burned out motor, I dont believe the price its got too.

I sold my engine lift a while back and got 20 quid more for it than I paid, but the guy that bought it wasnt a spoon, he kew that there was a waiting list, and his garage needed it to do the job, fair enough.

Someone mentioned fishing reels further up, this is one exception I made, I have a couple of reels which I paid a fair amount for on ebay, they might be 25 years old, but you just cant get new ones as good.

reggie_obe
04-25-2010, 06:36 PM
I been to plenty of estate sales and fleamarkets filled with boxes of rusty reamers or "good" reamers baning together in cigar boxes. Worth very little in either case, but the seller has consulted an "expert, Ebay or an MSC catalog for pricing. Same goes for MT shank drills with rusted, pitted and gouged shanks, seller says "I'm sure that couldd be fixed that up." Eventually this junk filters through to a landfill.

Black_Moons
04-25-2010, 07:25 PM
reggie_obe: lol... reminds me of my cheap chinese drill bits in my cheap chinese drill, The only thing that keeps them from spining is the fact that once they start spining the shank gets so gouged the burrs get stuck on the chuck jaws.

RB211
04-25-2010, 07:28 PM
reggie_obe: lol... reminds me of my cheap chinese drill bits in my cheap chinese drill, The only thing that keeps them from spining is the fact that once they start spining the shank gets so gouged the burrs get stuck on the chuck jaws.
You mean that is not a special feature?

J Tiers
04-25-2010, 07:33 PM
Same goes for MT shank drills with rusted, pitted and gouged shanks, seller says "I'm sure that couldd be fixed that up." Eventually this junk filters through to a landfill.


If the price is right, I'll BUY those rusty taper shank drills.....if they are not TOO bad.... a little work with a burr file and they fit and hold in the taper just fine.

But I've seen that sort of stuff..... if the reamers were not bad originally, after 200 people have ruffled around in the box looking at "those funny drills" they are too nicked to fool with.

reggie_obe
04-25-2010, 09:28 PM
I had though about accumulating a pile of drills with bad shanks and regrinding the lot on the OD grinder. When I posed this idea to someone more learned, his comment was, "With a tenths indicator, you can certainly hold them between the chuck and the tailstock center, get them spinning true, re-grind the taper, but what's your time worth?" He's right, I can just be more selective in what I pick up. Sometimes a bargain isn't a bargain. If the reamers aren't individually tubed or covered with dipseal, they usually aren't worth looking at.

J Tiers
04-25-2010, 10:33 PM
Well it depends on whether you are an HSM or a business.

As an HSM, what do you charge yourself for shop time? DO you charge yourself for shop time?

And, if you DO, WHY DO you?

if you do NOT, why worry about it?

If you did set up the grinder, it would likely be one setup, and however many drills. Possibly two setups if you do MT3 and MT2. Amortizing the setup time, it looks not too bad if you have a dozen or so fifty cent drills to do.

Figuring the cheapest chinese taper shank drill at between $8 and $25, depending on size, you have between $96 and $300 of drills for your time and 50 cents apiece.

And you probably won't have cheap chinese drills either, but decent US brands that will last you a long time.

of course, you could spend a shorter time with a burr file and do the lot by hand, too.

I like your friend..... people like that save me a lot of money, and I really don't care exactly WHAT I do in the shop, I like fixing things and I like making things, whatever.

if you ar etalking about regular jobber drills, then I can see his point..... they are not that expensive. Yet.

reggie_obe
04-26-2010, 01:57 PM
You are correct to a great degree, once set up, just a little dialing in of each and then just the grinding time. For now I'll just set the ones with bad tapers aside until I have enough to warrant a grinding session. The straight shank drills are another problem all together and I don't mean ones 1/2" and smaller. Picked up about 200lbs of drills formerly used in turret lathes and mills with gouged straight shanks, diameters from 1/2" to 2". Though about regrinding to a nominal shank size or just removing the burrs and grinding either three flats or just a single flat for a Weldon type setscrew tool holder. But it still amount to time I could be using for more productive thing in the shop. Spare time is something most of us don't have enough of.