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View Full Version : Feasibility of moving 8X30 mill in basement shop?



sidegrinder
08-04-2006, 11:06 AM
I know anything's possible, but how easily could this be done. These class of machines weigh about 1000# total. I figure I can pull the head (200#) and table (100#). I don't know how much trouble it would be to pull the knee off, but that might be another 150#. Unfortunatley, the base and main casting are one piece on these and must be in the range of 500#+. Would this be asking for trouble on a normal residential stairway? I know I could consider a 6X26 and break it down into 200-300# pieces, but i would like the extra capacity of the bigger machine. Any thoughts?

SGW
08-04-2006, 11:28 AM
I find it useful, when thinking about stuff like this, to visualize it in terms of people. Could three 200-pound guys stand on your basement steps without them collapsing? I expect so.

Think the whole thing through, rent a heavy-duty stair-climbing refrigerator dolly, don't have anybody standing in the way (just in case), and you ought to be fine.

pcarpenter
08-04-2006, 11:33 AM
There has been much discussion here about moving much bigger mills than that inside, so yes...it is very doable. In one of the The Machinist's Bedside Readers, the author makes reference to a rigger moving a Bridgeport size mill into his basement.

It sounds like you are talking about reasonable size parts. I don't know what the base ends up shaped like, but it may be reasonable to try to strap it to one of the safe dollies that safe movers use. You could look into renting one....or you may hire them to move that part for you if you are not confident in doing it yourself.

The usual cautions apply about having all of your helpers know where to set things, how to get out of the way, having places you can stop and rest if needed, etc, etc.


Paul

BobWarfield
08-04-2006, 11:38 AM
You could also contemplate something like an Industrial Hobbies mill. I've got one, and had to disassemble it to get it into my shop, which is accessed through a less than full height and fairly narrow doorway. The heaviest component weighted 275lbs, so it was pretty easy for 3 people to get it moved.

Best,

BW

bdarin
08-04-2006, 12:42 PM
The bedside reader method worked the best....cut a hole in the dining room floor, lower the mill to the basement, put the floor back and hide with a carpet. Not sure how this'd work out for you.

JPR
08-04-2006, 01:00 PM
are the stairs straight and in good shape structurally? can you lay it on it's side?
A couple of 2x12 bolted together and laid ontop the stairs would make a good slide to lower it down using a qood winch or come-along.

J Tiers
08-04-2006, 01:07 PM
Because the stairway acts as a beam, supporting the load on it, you can re-inforce it...

Vertical supports in the center of its span from each stringer to the floor will make a huge difference (if floor is solid). Supports at the 1/3 and 2/3 points will do even more.

The load capability of a beam is highly dependent on the span. Adding supports reduces the span.

I like to "survey test" by standing in the span middle, and bouncing a bit. If the stairway bounces, it clearly needs support for any heavy load.

If you look up the load vs span limits on wood beams, and take the effective beam as the uncut cross-section of the stringer, you will see how supports affect the allowable load, and can even estimate if you can get to where you need to be.

The tables have safety factors.... but your wood isn't new... and its an estimate anyway. Overkill is better than busted stairs with you underneath.

Elninio
08-04-2006, 01:30 PM
in my house the cellar in my house is right under the stairs that lead into the basement :D

bob308
08-04-2006, 04:25 PM
give me a leaver and a place to stand and i will move the world.

i have lowerd two mills into cellers by the out side steps with rollers and using my pick up witha chain hookes to it to control the down slide with the breaks. lot easier then a comalong.

motomoron
08-04-2006, 04:33 PM
"give me a long enough lever and a firm place to stand, and I'll bend my lever"

cuemaker
08-04-2006, 04:44 PM
I moved my 1500lb 13x36 into my basement recently. It was just me and my father in law.

My basement stairs went half way, then reversed directions.

Heres how I did it.

First I completely took the lathe apart.

Went to HF and got a 700lb capacity hand dolly for $50.

The best was the absoulty awakard, but we got it down.

The stand was very hard. I completely filled the space in the stairs plus it was heavy.

Its amazing what you can move with a dolly.

HTRN
08-04-2006, 05:33 PM
Is moving possible? Hell yeah, because I did just that. My Mill is a 8x27 Taiwanese made Sharp, and what I did was unbolt the overarm from the column, and removed the table and knee. That got the weight of the column down low enough that moving it with a hand truck is pretty straight forward. Took me and two of my friends less than 2 hours to do, INCLUDING reassembly.


HTRN

Millman
08-04-2006, 07:30 PM
What you really need are 4 politicians at the bottom of the stairs to catch it......when you accidently cut the ropes.

Wess
08-04-2006, 08:17 PM
I'd say go with it also. I bought a 8 x 30 awhile back and moved into the basement myself. As you suspected the main casting/base is the heavist piece. I slapped mine on a refrigerator dolly and down it went, it's heavy but no heavier than a fridge. Also on mine the knee came off real easy. Mine is an older SM-1 made in Taiwan job from the early 80's. Are you buying new?

Too_Many_Tools
08-04-2006, 08:46 PM
Has anyone taken a mill OUT of their basement?

If so, let's hear how you solved the problems of working against gravity?

Thanks

TMT

MikeHenry
08-04-2006, 10:04 PM
Here's the way my wife and I lowered a surface grinder base to the basement:

http://member.newsguy.com/~mphenry/base_move.htm

The same approach will be used to bring a 1,000 lb horizontal back up (in pieces).

Mike

JPR
08-05-2006, 12:32 AM
Here are some pictures of a Supermax CNC mill headed to a basement using a gantry crane. Looks well thought out.
text (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/00_Mill_to_Basement.txt)
Picture 1 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/01_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/02_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 3 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/03_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 4 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/04_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 5 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/05_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 6 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/06_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 7 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/07_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 8 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/08_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 9 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/09_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 10 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/10_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 11 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/11_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 12 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/12_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 13 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/13_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 14 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/14_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)
Picture 15 (http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/15_Mill_to_Basement.jpg)

Mortimerex
08-06-2006, 12:52 AM
What I'd do is take the pieces down until left with the one big part. About 1000# left? Thats half a ton but you can slide that down on several 4"x4" (or larger) rails with the "big hunk" strapped to half a dozen 4'x8' sheets of 3/8-3/4" thk aspenite and using an electric winch (with 2000# capacity on cable and winch) to slowly lower so it doesnt go smasho. The rails and sheet distribute the 1000# over several sets of stairs at multiple points. Or you could just hire someone to do it or rent a machine specially made for doing this sort of thing. Just don't try carrying it down with a few buddies after (or even before) drinking alot of beer.

SJorgensen
08-06-2006, 03:36 AM
Thanks for sharing those pictures. It looks like that gantry was fairly helpful but would it have been even more helpful if the casters were different? I can't tell from the pictures but it appears that some where fixed and some were swivel. In my experience 4 swivel casters is like herding cats. It isn't the way to go. If you could stear and set the angle of the casters it might help. Could you speak to this aspect in how you had to move the gantry and whether the casters worked very well.

Obviously you got the move done, but what whould you have done differently and what was the difficult areas that you dealt with?

I hope to take better notes on my next move, because I learned so much on my two mill moves. I have never been around the moving of heavy machine tools before and there is much to know.

reggie_obe
08-07-2006, 05:54 PM
I think TMT has posed the real question. Lets see some photos of you getting a mill up from the basement. Even in pieces, "down" is a whole lot easier than "up".
Some things begin to stretch the boundries of common sense. Sure you can get a 4000lb, 12 foot lathe down the basement in one piece, but should you? Maybe giving up space in the garage, even it it is only a one car garage would be a better choice. Will your heirs later be removing that lathe, mill or surface grinder with a rigger, a sledgehammer or a gas axe?

nheng
08-07-2006, 06:42 PM
Has anyone taken a mill OUT of their basement?

I have a feeling that there are more HSM wives out there with experience in this than the HSM'ers :( Den

Spin Doctor
08-07-2006, 07:19 PM
To me this would be the perfect excuse to put an outside entrance (otherwise known as a bulkhead door) to the basement

reggie_obe
08-09-2006, 05:15 PM
Why bother with the expense of adding a bulkhead entrence and stairs? They are usually steaper than your normal basement stairs to conserve space and would make moving machinery in and out more difficult. Add the outside door, but skip the steps. Just make it pit of convenient size, maybe four by eight feet. Then machines could be lowered from outside just using a gantry crane and chainfall. Or to make it even easier on you, install a small fieight elevator like the type that used to service the basements of stores in large cities and would rise up through the sidewalk.

A.K. Boomer
08-09-2006, 06:13 PM
"give me a long enough lever and a firm place to stand, and I'll bend my lever"


Motomoron welcome to the club! that was good...

Bulkhead entrances are handy, one, you now have the ability to hook up anything from winches to farm equip. just outside and this is huge --- two, cement steps dont crush or collapse, i got my 1550lb jet down in my basement this way and it would have been very scary or maybe imposible down the steps in the house, cramped,no safe place to anchor and i wouldnt want humanoids below the weight (the base must have wieghed close to 750lbs maybe eight) the name of the game when going into a basement is disassembly...

Too_Many_Tools
08-09-2006, 09:23 PM
Why bother with the expense of adding a bulkhead entrence and stairs? They are usually steaper than your normal basement stairs to conserve space and would make moving machinery in and out more difficult. Add the outside door, but skip the steps. Just make it pit of convenient size, maybe four by eight feet. Then machines could be lowered from outside just using a gantry crane and chainfall. Or to make it even easier on you, install a small fieight elevator like the type that used to service the basements of stores in large cities and would rise up through the sidewalk.

I think the best of both worlds is to have steps that can be removed.

Then one can use the outside access for both access by the family and remove the steps when you need to move machinery,

TMT

giddingm
08-10-2006, 07:32 PM
Yes use a stair climber to move the column.....you'll get it down stairs.but if you ever move.you'll never want to move it....I've left a couple old pianos in place....just too much trouble.Good luck with the new mill.

HTRN
08-11-2006, 03:39 AM
To me this would be the perfect excuse to put an outside entrance (otherwise known as a bulkhead door) to the basement

Agreed, but no stairs, just a pit, that way a gantry crane can drop stuff in fairly easily.


HTRN

cmiller231
08-11-2006, 11:59 PM
I moved a 15x42 Cinn. lathe, Bridge port and a old horiz. mill in the basement of my old house. Disassembled everything . Used appliance dolly going in and a chain fall ( not very handy to use ) .The only breakage i had going in was a tread broke. But heard a fair amount of creaking. The lathe bed ( appox 7 ft. long was the hardest to deal with on the dolly ).I had a hyd jack under the landing .
When i moved i did things a little differently .I decked the strairway in 5/8" plywood . I added a cleat on each stringer to uport each tread.. I also added 4x4 posts midway under each stringer .Ipurchased a 2000#warn cargo winch . The lathe bed was removed by bolting two 4x4 's to the bottom of the bed , then drilled 5/8" holes the both 4x4's at each end to accept axle's along with some cheap 10" wheels i simply rolled it to the stairs and rolled it up the steps with on to a waiting traileruseing the warn winch.
I also added an axle to the applaince dolly(10" wheels) so it would roll laying down.
Pulling the bridgeport base was a little scarry.

Would i do it again ? probably not , i had a garege available . Chris