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J Tiers
08-08-2006, 10:08 PM
Sattelite 1605CDS....

Worked fine, then suddenly on boot-up continues to say " insert new disk and press any key" when it is supposed to be booting from the HDD. HDD light stays on.....

Naturally, I was about ready to install the improved cooling "modified" BIOS download.

Equally naturally, the thing probably isn't worth repairing.

Other data: It hasn't remembered its cmos well for several years. And, its battery discharges in a couple days if not used, even thoguh battery is new, and lasts an hour + if used after charging.

Does this indicate a dead HDD? Bios setting of HDD is not changeable, says it is a Fujitsu MHK2048AT-(PM).

Boot order seems not to matter, currently set to FDD, CDROM, HDD.

Boots to a certain point, then appears to be working, but pops up a red box that says "save to disk feture is disabled, run phDisk for information. FILE: create new. Partition: consult manual. Hit any key to exit".

After one does, it chunka-chunka's for a bit, and says "disk i/o error replace teh disk and then press any key." This with no disk in FDD

JRouche
08-08-2006, 10:26 PM
Hard drive is done.
Try and boot from a floppy to dos and fdisk /mbr. (by the way, this will wipe the drive)
If you cannot access the HD it's toast.
JRouce

J Tiers
08-08-2006, 10:43 PM
Well, maybe... that is the question....

HDD might be bad

OR some other part of the thing related to the HDD is toast, or at least unhappy.... like the PSU.

OR it has forgotten which drive it has, and is trying to do something the actual one won't do.....

Remember, the CMOS doesn't stay right....

Plus, it was operating in a hot area when it locked up..... I suspected heat problems.... After being cooled off in a cold area for a few minutes it was apparently happier for a while again... (new info painfully dragged out of the person who was using it at the time)

Mcgyver
08-08-2006, 10:59 PM
before you give up on the hard drive (got a back up right?) some of the linux stuff will read what windows won't. I had a hd stop working but was able to pull everything off using linux, made all kinds of squirrelly noises! linux on cd, boot from cd and networked to another computer where i copied stuff to. knoppix was what i used, disk image is an open source download.

I went through 4 hd and 3 mb with two to****a laptops, (although most we under warranty) - and they were the expensive Tecra business models! maybe a slow learner, but never again

edit - haha the board doesn't like my alternate spelling of toshiba

CCWKen
08-09-2006, 01:21 AM
There's a CMOS battery under the keyboard. Have you ever replaced it?

JRouche
08-09-2006, 01:52 AM
"Remember, the CMOS doesn't stay right...."

Right, thats why I think you should boot to a floppy (dos). If the bios is not seeing the HD as boot due to a fault maybe it will let you boot to the A: drive then you can troubleshoot the HD. JRouche

J Tiers
08-09-2006, 07:57 AM
There's a CMOS battery under the keyboard. Have you ever replaced it?

Not while I have had it.... I didn't get it new.

I have been trying to find out where it is without having to take the thing to bits.. Thanks for the info.

No fasteners near the keyboard, all on the back.... maybe both case halves come off together....

When I get time later I'll try booting it again.... it has had all night to cool off.

It also occurred to me that the HDD and floppy etc are the only things that require 12V...or at least non-5V If 12V etc has a problem, it will not run.

DICKEYBIRD
08-09-2006, 08:12 AM
Do a Google search for your laptop's service manual and download it. It will have the procedures to take it apart. I have an old Tecra running my router and the charger plug on the m/b died. The manual showed how to take it apart and I was able to resolder a cracked board trace. They don't come apart like you think they would! I would have destroyed the thing trying to get it apart without the manual.

Sophiedoc
08-09-2006, 08:16 AM
While the gurus are here what do I do about a tecra that works fine with external monitor but will suddenly shut off with regular led screen.If the led goes off you can usually continue by toggling to external monitor.

Evan
08-09-2006, 10:08 AM
You have a failing LCD backlight power supply. Probably not worth fixing unless on warranty.

J Tiers
08-09-2006, 12:33 PM
The only place I have seen any service manuals when searching the web is on ebay...

1) I don't do ebay

2) the sellers probably will ship an unreadable 27th gen copy anyhow.... whatever they say.

Any suggestions for legitimate sources of service manuals for a sensible price?

JRouche
08-09-2006, 07:50 PM
1605 CDS

http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/tais/su/su_sc_modelLanding.jsp?ProductMenu_0=Portables&ProductMenu_1=Satellite&ProductMenu_2=1073769660&x=17&y=12&BV_SessionID=%40%40%40%401361951557.1155167391%40% 40%40%40&BV_EngineID=cccjaddiideigdecgfkceghdgngdgnj.0&moid=1073769660&smoid=true&ct=MH&ListType=Model

J Tiers
08-09-2006, 07:52 PM
The very best information I can find is that:

1) Toshiba does NOT and WILL not sell a service manual for a laptop. EVEN to an independent repair outfit. Hardly to their own dealers.

2) Toshiba MAY , someday, FIX a laptop IF you get their shipping box, AND they have the parts in stock, AND the moon is in the right sign, AND you can wait forever + 1 day.

3) There ARE some repair stations... but MOST hate Toshiba laptops so much that they can barely stand to be paid to fix one.

4) If you DO pay to fix one, be prepared for the fix to be MUCH more expensive than the machine is worth to you.

5) As a result, ANY Toshiba laptop MUST be regarded as a disposable item, like a paper cup.... A very EXPENSIVE paper cup, but a paper cup all the same. Apparently TOSHIBA thinks they are like a paper cup.

J Tiers
08-09-2006, 08:01 PM
1605 CDS

http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/tais/su/su_sc_modelLanding.jsp?ProductMenu_0=Portables&ProductMenu_1=Satellite&ProductMenu_2=1073769660&x=17&y=12&BV_SessionID=%40%40%40%401361951557.1155167391%40% 40%40%40&BV_EngineID=cccjaddiideigdecgfkceghdgngdgnj.0&moid=1073769660&smoid=true&ct=MH&ListType=Model

And this would be what?

All that is there is user manual, a few drivers, and instructions to take your under-warranty unit to an authorized service provider.

I had already found that page within 2 minutes of searching the web...... ;)

The money I have IN the unit, in terms of memory upgrade and new battery, plus cost of unit, probably is a little less than the repair cost at an ASP, from what I have been able to determine from the reports of others in various BBS, etc.

Even though there actually is a quite substantial amount involved.... which Toshiba apparently thinks is chicken feed.... Maybe it is, compared to what the total cost would be if I paid for a repair.

I don't know how to get an appropriate amount of swearing onto this message... it would need to be in arabic script..... :mad:

4t5acp
08-09-2006, 09:35 PM
You guys are WAY, WAY beyond me, but for what it's worth I really cut down on my overheating problems on my Satellite model by simply blowing the dust out of the cooling fans. You would be amazed at how much had collected in there.

Oldguy
08-09-2006, 09:48 PM
The 1605 looks to be put together the same way as my old 105CS. If you carefully pry out the thin filler piece across the front of the keyboard you can lift up the keyboard and access the CMOS battery. You should be able to do this with your fingers - no heavy lifting or tools necessary. Do a web search and you should find hundreds of sources that the sell batteries. Hope this helps.

Glenn

CCWKen
08-09-2006, 10:22 PM
To-shiz-ba Inc. service center is so hard to work with because of security. Apparently, it hasn't kept people from stealing them though. If you forget your password and mis-enter it three times, it locks up. To unlock it takes a trip to the service center and $150.

You would be better off having it stolen. If you have a low deductible, it's better than the paper weight you have now. Auto and/or home insurance usually covers personal items. ;)

Of course, I'm not suggesting you do anything illegal. :D

JRouche
08-09-2006, 11:31 PM
And this would be what?



My bust, I was thinking service but saw operation manual...So solly....

Have you seen this cd:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TOSHIBA-Laptop-Repair-Service-Manual-NEW-Ver-2006_W0QQitemZ260016372867QQihZ016QQcategoryZ60270 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Oh yeah, no ebay,,,,Hmmm.....Dunno..

I have the 1605 maintenance manual...You want. Got email. Want me to send it to you? Its 3meg....JRouche

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/HSM/pageone.jpg

J Tiers
08-10-2006, 12:35 AM
Um..... SURE !

I have dialup.... OK, I'll live through it.

That looks like exactly the ticket.......

Yes

Si

Ja

Hai

etc.

And Thank you.

JRouche
08-10-2006, 12:50 AM
Done...JRouche

J Tiers
08-10-2006, 09:46 PM
Ah..... Much bettah......

You are a scholar and a gentleman..... That is the good stuff, Mr Rouche....

I got it apart, and I can look it over now...

Thank you very much.... need anything I might have?


P.S.:

One thing became obvious relatively soon.... The good folks at Toshiba apparently forgot to put in teh screws that hold down the HDD...... There are two that don't come thru from anywhere else, that were not there..... AFAIK nobody has ever serviced the unit, so that would make it Toshiba's messup.

JRouche
08-11-2006, 01:11 AM
Ah..... Much bettah......



Cool, glad the file came through, it was fairly large. JRouche

Evan
08-11-2006, 02:06 AM
The good folks at Toshiba apparently forgot to put in teh screws that hold down the HDD..
You may want to look very carefully for a couple of "spare" screws stuck somewhere they shouldn't be.

BTW, for a few dollars you can get an adapter plug that allows you to connect the HD to a regular IDE cable. This will make it easy to run diagnostics using a desktop.

J Tiers
08-11-2006, 07:51 AM
Ja?

Where would such an item be obtainable?

I don't recall seeing that during the great Toshiba info search I did a few days ago, but then I wasn't looking for it exactly.

Evan
08-11-2006, 10:01 AM
Any decent computer store that sells parts should have one. The electrical standard for laptop drives is the same as regular IDE 3.5" drives. Only the connector is different. The adapter shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 bucks.

J Tiers
08-11-2006, 12:32 PM
Oh.... I didn't realize they were that standard.... means I may be able to replace it more easily, if it's bad.....

I'll go look for an adapter cable. Thanks for the tip.

BTW..... they mention having a CMOS/RTC battery, but never mention how to replace it(mine is clearly bad or missing). The backup battery is a real biggie, a 7 mAhr Li-Ion......

It must be mighty darn small, as I haven't yet seen it, and I've had nearly everything out of the case by now....

Evan
08-11-2006, 12:40 PM
Depending on what they used for the RTC and CMOS the battery may not be replaceable. There were a series of RTC/CMOS chips that had an integral battery. The Dallas DS12C887 is one example. You have to replace the entire module, if it is socketed. They also may have used a supercap instead of a battery. I have some supercaps the size of a dime and about 1/4" high that are .5 farad for backup use.

J Tiers
08-11-2006, 05:28 PM
That had occurred to me..... and since I have yet to locate the RTC, is a possibility.

As a 7 mA hour Li-Ion, it IS a battery per the manual, but where that is stashed is another matter. The very fact that they are mute on the subject of replacement is an indicator of a possible issue there.

That chip, however, shows on teh datasheet an external battery....

http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS12885-DS12C887A.pdf

Evan
08-11-2006, 05:39 PM
Optional Encapsulated DIP (EDIP) Package with Integrated Crystal and Battery (DS12887, DS12887A, DS12C887, DS12C887A)

http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2680

J Tiers
08-11-2006, 11:31 PM
Yeah, I see the EDIP version....

No E-dips visible, nothing that big......But there is a suspicious-looking metal-cased SMT item that otherwise looks like a capacitor.... very possible that is the battery. At 7 mAh and 3.3V it won't be very big....

No visible un-filled sockets or headers. Replacement sourcees have many models, but not this one. I am convinced it is an SMT part which is now bad.

In any case, it isn't a plug-in replacement type which is about all that is needed to be known.

nheng
08-12-2006, 12:04 AM
I fixed several notebooks in the past with well and very well hidden batteries. Some of the hidden ones have been under the keyboard bezel, above the keyboard, some tucked in or behind whatever sort of panel holds the i/o connectors on the rear apron.

One little baby needed major disassembly as the battery was a single lithium coin cell mounted on a pcb BETWEEN two other pcb assemblies, totally out of view.

The DS1287 with integral battery was a bit large for notebooks and the external battery model must have been a much later product. The integral battery was a good idea until the 10 year life turned into 7 or even 5 as temperature and operating conditions came into play. Much older industrial equipment turned to junk as the DS1287, some DS prefix SRAMS and the DS5000 micro (8051) core turned to vapor with calibration constants or other critical parameters stored on them :eek: Den

Evan
08-12-2006, 02:06 AM
The DS12xx RTC modules were one of the truly stupid ideas. A lot of desktops also turned into junk as the modules were originally hard to get in single units. The best option was to replace the thing with an RTC card, not an option for a notebook or similar.

Toshiba is one of my least favorite notebooks. I have or had Toshiba, Compaq, Ibm and Acer and an ancient NEC which is the same as the Tandy 100. For ease of access and repair the old Thinkpad 365 units I have cannot be beat. You slide two finger catches on either side of the machine and the entire top with the keyboard opens up revealing the guts. For reliability the NEC is by far the best. It still works 20 years later and I have never had to press the reset button on it. Of course, it isn't good for much but it was pretty cool in the early 80s.

J Tiers
08-12-2006, 08:10 PM
I investigated the adapters....... Apparently they are not needed.....

The connector on this not quite 3" wide disk is the same size as the thing those adapt TO...... i.e. a standard-looking cable.

It apparently is NOT a "laptop drive" standard...

But, NO POWER CONNECTOR.... power is over the regular cable, which , since I no longer remember the pinouts, suggests a non-standard pinout..... danged if I remember.

Does this sound right?



Fujitsu MHK2048AT disk......

Evan
08-12-2006, 08:14 PM
Oops. BTW, what's the date of manufacture and the size of that drive?

J Tiers
08-12-2006, 08:22 PM
size is 4.8gB

Mechanically it is 2.27 x 4 x just under .375....

12-2000 mfr date

5V 0.55A

Evan
08-12-2006, 09:49 PM
Uh oh. From 9/2000 to 9/2001 Fujitsu hard drives in that size range up to 20 gigs had a faulty controller chip. It's a long story but the bottom line is that they are lucky to last a few years. They had a 50% failure rate within two years. Time for new hard drive.

J Tiers
08-12-2006, 11:08 PM
Okay, that figures....... No problem if so.

I still am curious about the adapter and the drive, since I can easily check the drive just in case I can get something off it, etc.

Also, checking for Toshiba special parts, etc, that I might not be able to buy easily...

The connector, as I mentioned, is as wide as a standard plug.... BUT, apparently not all pins are used. The connector in the unit is narrower, comparable to the adapter.....

And, by the look of it, it does NOT iuse the 12V at all...

Presumably then it does use the adapter, including the power connector? Even though it appears to be the same size as the normal connector?

Pic of unit with spec label

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/fujitsu.jpg

Pic of the connector (between white lines) and the HDD connector, obviously wider. The space between a couple pins fits the edge of the connector at one end....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/fujitsuA.jpg

JRouche
08-13-2006, 12:16 AM
UTime for new hard drive.

Ahh, yeah, been there done that...:(


This kinda spelled the doom: "disk i/o error replace teh disk and then press any key."


Hard drive is done.
Try and boot from a floppy to dos and fdisk /mbr. (by the way, this will wipe the drive)
If you cannot access the HD it's toast.
JRouche

J Tiers
08-13-2006, 12:38 AM
If you cannot acces the HDD SOMETHING is toast....

It may be the HDD

It may be a connector problem

It may be a component problem on the MB.

It sounds like there is good reason to think the HDD has a problem.... But, since it worked a bit after the problem became evident, and it seemed to be affected by various environmental things, the HDD is only at a 85% certainty..... and it may be possible to get stuff off it anyhow.

Before I spend money on this machine, I am going to need to verify the HDD is bad...... so that it is virtually certain that ANOTHER C-note tossed into the hole will make a difference.... I don't need a HDD at all if the problem is elsewhere.....


Hence the interest in trying to run it on a different system.... if its fairly cheap to do.

Engineers are like that, we don't like just replacing parts to see if they are bad.... we leave that to the AS-whatever certified mechanics..... and the HVAC technicians.

Evan
08-13-2006, 01:25 AM
The failure mode for that particular controller problem is that it overheats because of improper epoxy used to hold the chip to the board. This wears it out early from dopant migration and it begins to display symptoms as you describe until finally it won't work at all. I haven't seen them come back at that point and I have seen many of these failures.

The connector may have 4 extra pins that are unused. Just plug the adapter in to the same pins as are used in the laptop and use the provided power connector on the adapter.