View Full Version : OT Its not the years --- it the mileage

A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 11:51 AM
I really did great up until the age of 40 then I took up white water kayaking and all hell broke loose (literally), the very nature of this sport puts allot of wear on your lower back and i want to undue much of that compression so yesterday i built me an inverted chair and i actually got it done in time to use it late last night, I already feel so much better, this morning i feel great, I didnt want to hang up side down by boots because i feel that that stretches out the tendons in your ankles and knee's but an inverted chair avoids this and you basically keep your upper legs bent and the only thing holding you is your hips, your feet go up to a foot brace and this is what keeps your legs bent, very cool, Heres the kicker, This system is only good if its used and you know how we all get, time is an issue and all that crap,,, ssssoooooooooo,,, im thinking of getting me a flat screen monitor and hanging it up side down complete with upside down keyboard, im going to have to invest in a laser mouse because the standard mouse will be rendered inop. ,,, Yup --- you got it, an upside down computer desk, I will have to sip my morning green tea through a straw and eating breakfast will prove difficult but i think it can be done, im telling you guys I have not felt this good in along time,iv been pinching off my wirering harness in many places, been reading about the effects of spinal decompression and you can actually regrow more disc if you allow it to "breath", this is going down ----- and once my electric fly swatters get here and i get rid of this ear hair for good I will be absolutly unstoppable ---------- life is good fella's, got no complaints...:p

08-15-2006, 11:55 AM
Hanging upside down can cause hemorrhagic strokes.

A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 12:13 PM
I think im gonna be alright, I drank a quart of red wine last night and hung for 45 minutes ----- this was the test, already taking an aspirin a day for thin blood then throw in a quart of red wine to thin it even further, hung and didnt spring a leak ---- im good to go bro.

A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 12:19 PM
Its the Finns that have to be careful --- im still operating at normal blood pressures, the finns do a hot sauna in the middle of winter, heart rate sky rockets and bloods vessles dialate then they go and jump in an ice cold lake! you have any idea what that doesn to B.P. ? heart rate still stays high for awhile yet all the blood vessles shrink drastically, usually --- if they make it through the first time they make it the rest of thier lives ----- and it really is considered healthy ------- as long as you dont have a blow out...

08-15-2006, 12:21 PM
A couple pages of Google searching (both web and images) turned up nothing to tell me what an "inverted chair" looks like. How about a picture?


Norman Atkinson
08-15-2006, 12:22 PM

Great thing this whitewater lark! Too old now but I paddled in the British Nationals. Came nowhere but what the hell. Used to paddle with George Flint, the 1948 Olympic coach.

I am now really expert with the other sport that you mentioned- red wine drinking.

I do watch the River Isere in France which is just below our ski apartment.
Grade 4 and 4 stuff and wish I was just that bit younger. Huge skin graft on left hand may put the mockers on it if old age wasn't an issue.

Nice to have another bloody idiot around.



A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 12:22 PM
I think im gonna be alright, I drank a quart of red wine last night and hung for 45 minutes ----- this was the test, already taking an aspirin a day for thin blood then throw in a quart of red wine to thin it even further, hung and didnt spring a leak ---- im good to go bro.

I just remembered this (cuz i was half lit) I sneezed last night while upside down,,, i dont want to make that a habit, im serious...

08-15-2006, 12:24 PM
If you want to completely unload your spine you don't need to hang upside down. All that is required is to lie on a table with your head about ten inches lower than your feet. That is how NASA does ground based studies to simulate the effect of microgravity on the spine and head.

You have a set of pressure sensors in your body called baro receptors. They regulate the blood pressure gradient from head to foot. They aren't able to regulate correctly when hanging upside down as this is not a position we are adapted to. Lying down, even with head lower than feet, is no problem and is within the regulation capacity of the baroreflex.

John Stevenson
08-15-2006, 12:30 PM
Well I never,
You learn something new every day don't you.


08-15-2006, 12:30 PM
BTW, I should mention that one of the side effects that the astronauts commonly experience from zero-gee is an increase in height cause by the unloading of the spine. This is usually accompanied by severe back pain.

08-15-2006, 12:36 PM
Here is a study on the phenomenon.

6 degrees head-down tilt as a back pain model for actual microgravity.
Hutchinson KJ, Hargens AR, Murthy G, Watenpaugh DE, Convertino VA, Wing PC.
FASEB J. 1993 Feb 23; 7: A666. Life Sci. Div., NASA ARC, Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000.
Astronauts often experience back pain during space flight. Retrospectively, Wing et al. (Orthop. Clinics N. Amer. 22:255, 1991) found that during space flight 72% of 19 shuttle crew members experienced back pain, which they described as dull (62%), localized to the lower back (50%), and with an intensity of 2 on the 5 point McGill Questionnaire scale.


Alistair Hosie
08-15-2006, 12:42 PM
Well I never,
You learn something new every day don't you.
:D:D naughty naughty:D Alistair

08-15-2006, 12:47 PM
I understand that before the industrial revolution; a couple of sessions on the Rack could relieve pressure on the spine and lenghten the body a few inches.

I believe that a computer operated Rack with flashing neon and a bright paint job, and the right marketing, could be a money maker today.

A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 12:49 PM
Alright Norm,,, what a crazy sport, I paddled with many class 5 boaters but I remained a class four and even soloed some --- I actually think thats the most intence experiance of my life was solo boating because its all up to you and there is no backup, I lost a brother in the yellowstone years ago and this was always in the back of my mind, I know so many boaters who really dont respect the water as much as they should , double the speed - quadrouple the force, what a blast though, and what a strange bunch of people the river folk are!
Im not afraid to say that iv scouted some stuff that actually made my knee's clunk together just by looking at it, then you hop in your boat and run it!
Just like anything the tech. is awesome as compared to just a decade ago, my back wasnt in the best of shape when i started boating but it went down hill very fast after,

Evan, I always take your advise to heart, One of the things iv learned last night is not to jump right on and flip over imediatly, its a little uncomfortable that way and i need to take it in stages then i dont feel the pressure much at all.

Winchman my chair is nothing to brag about --- its built of two by fours and is stationary, some of the chairs iv seen on line you sit in and they rotate, they are hard to find and just a half year ago there was a manufacturer that was building them for just over a hundred bucks yet like you when i went to look for it this last week I couldnt find any except a 400 dollar one... My chair cost me $18.87

A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 01:06 PM
Evan --- what the facts is,,, chiropractors are increasingly useing spinal decomp therapy more and more because they realize the bennies in doing so ,,, I had one tell me to think of the spine discs as a sponge, then he said --- crunch a sponge up in your hand and dip it in a bucket of water --- now pull it out --- release and tell me how much water is in it ---nothing --- thats exactly what happens to our discs because they are under constant pressure, even when we sleep our muscles hold our spine tight --- without fluid exchange there can be no healing or trading off of nutrients, without this your symptoms cant help but worsen.

As far as the back pain being more after decompression i can attest to this;
(and this is after years of doing self taught spinal decomp.) after the spine has been decompressed great care should be taken to allow it to come back together very slowly otherwise much pain and posible injury could result... if care is taken and the process done right you may have a couple creaks and grones but should feel much better almost imediatly thereafter,

The inverted chair is an extreme aproach but thats how i do stuff, One thing for sure, to sit on my hands and do nothing is a guarantee that my condition will worsen, im not going done that road...

08-15-2006, 01:12 PM
You should try a tilt table. It's safer and easier plus you can get more stuff done.

A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 01:15 PM
This was the last sentance in the readings of the site you just gave;

"Therefore, back pain in actual and simulated microgravity may result from stretching of paraspinal ligaments and musculature until a new spinal length is reached."

Key words "until a new spinal length is reached." A new spinal length being reached equates to more disc material ---- more disc material equates to your wirering harness not being pinched off, and we all know what that equates to...

08-15-2006, 01:16 PM
Key words: may result from

Also take note that the discs are cartilage. That is one of the slowest growing tissues in the body. After a certain age it usually doesn't regenerate at all.

A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 01:22 PM
With the right suplements and elieviating compression its your best bet, its better than giving up right? chair has to be used Evan, i already built it and im a cheap bastard:p

08-15-2006, 01:30 PM
That certain age happens to be around 40...

A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 01:44 PM
46 now, but you wouldnt believe what a positive attitude can achieve,,, No offence but you should try it sometime...

08-15-2006, 02:07 PM
A chair for $18 bucks? Wow. I like it.

Norman Atkinson
08-15-2006, 02:27 PM
Nice to hear from the lunatic fringe but sorry to hear of your present troubles. May they get better soon. I know the rest of the mob here are probably fed up with me, but I was also a Skier- and a sailing instructor and a lot of other things. I. too, have a back but not in the same league as yours.

My wife is equally stark raving bonkers- and she is now wielding a bass sax.
She should have more sense but!

Now think it out- I sit in the old rocking chair in the twilight- bugger, almost dark- bit of life and know that I have no wish to say " I wish that I had done this, or done that when I was younger"

Grumbles, grunts, whinges, arthritis, torn hands and eyes and heads and well, most things virtually useless- but WE have done it.

I still want to fly back seat in one of RAF Squadron's Tornado bombers but I'll have pass that one up.

Keep taking the red wine and aspirin. If you run out of aspirin, double the red wine intake!

Cheers fella


A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 03:18 PM
No Regretts over here either Norm, dont know but maybe the 50,000 miles + on Mt. bikes havent helped either! I dont know of anybody who ever got to the bitter end and said "dammit --- I wish i woulda put in a few more hours at the office" , If your back gets bad enough do consider decomp. the chair is a little exteme but i think youd like that... also it makes sence to me, it doesnt stretch your knees and ankles out and thats important to me, I think the ankle boots are much more risky in many areas including blood pressure to the head, the inverted chair has my knees going down a 12-1/2 degree slant as compaired to my pelvis, this takes away all the hydraulics of 6 feet of pressure and reduces it to 4, not only that you can use your forearms as a regulator and leave them dangle below head level,,,,,,,, I will be more aware of something that unexpectingly happend last night though, i have to anticipate the "sneeze"...

just got my dose of "the chair" now its time to get somethings done for the day.

08-15-2006, 04:05 PM

Any chance of seeing a picture of your chair?

John Stevenson
08-15-2006, 04:08 PM
I. too, have a back but not in the same league as yours.


Most of us have one as well.


Norman Atkinson
08-15-2006, 05:05 PM
Sir John,
With respect, Sir,and for the record, I appreciated the problem but if i had referred to having disk problems, you might have got the whole thing equally wrong. Again, if I had gone into finer detail some spineless vertebrates might have had difficulty in merely grasping the bare bones of the discussion.

I have the honour to be
your most respected- respectful servant

Norm of the Northwoods

08-15-2006, 05:46 PM
Evan --- what the facts is,,, chiropractors are increasingly useing spinal decomp therapy more and more because they realize the bennies in doing so ,,, ...

It isn't the "bennies" they realize. It's the pennies! ...or dollars to be more precise.

Any benefit from chiropractory occurs between the ears.

Your later comment, AK, about the "positive attitude" more closely addresses the problem.

Relief from virtually all chronic pain, as well as many other conditions, can be achieved fairly quickly and surely, and practically free, if you're willing to invest some personal time and dedication to the process. Unfortunately the process is so alien and contradictory to everything learned throughout our lives, that few (only those desperate enough) are willing to give it a try.

I've commented on this before. ...probably before you joined. If curious do a search for the word "Sarno".

A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 06:47 PM
Slayer, i have a sony handycam with still shot, iv figured out how to down load pics but dont know how to go about putting them on line, I also have a few pics of my mill that i would like to share but im a bumling fool when it comes to computers, Id like for someone to say "its simple" but they would have to realize that when it comes to computers i "simply" dont have the patients.

Lynn (quote) Any benefit from chiropractory occurs between the ears.

Lynn, this is so untrue, im not a big fan but i have also self helped myself to the point of alieviating much discomfort and regained mobility --- I will take the "treating the problem" over the "treating the symptom" aproach anyday, I have proof positive that it works for me and its not just a band-aid, so unless this "sarno" is somekind of magic stuff you eat that regenerates disc material then i think im doing the best that i can and also the sarno would benifit from this treatment as well ----- but--- never leave any stone unturned --- im off to see what sarno is and i will keep an open mind, thanks.

08-15-2006, 07:01 PM
. . . . . I know the rest of the mob here are probably fed up with me, but I was also a Skier- and a sailing instructor and a lot of other things. I. too, have a back but not in the same league as yours.

Grumbles, grunts, whinges, arthritis, torn hands and eyes and heads and well, most things virtually useless- but WE have done it.


Mr. Atkinson, I too have time on the water. My son and I started racing in the late 70’s, and for last several years, big carbon fibre mono-hulls. Yes the oft maligned “Lead mines”. But, even with all my injuries I still drive and/or call tactics. Besides, it's my boat, I want to drive. Sheesh, what an ego. However, now, not agile enough to do bow, too heavy to be a mast man, too clumsy to work in the sewer, neck and back too stiff to be a good trimmer, no endurance to be a grinder. This getting old really blows. Incidentally, the good looking one in the afterguard is my son, now registered as ‘Owner Skipper’.

See you on the water, and if you want to go boat to boat on the sister hull, you'll likely teach me a thing or two including a little more humility. We'll down a pint or two in your honour.


A.K. Boomer
08-15-2006, 08:13 PM
Lynn, i checked into the sarno archives and I believe that with some people that this may be effective --- however , if you have an existing mechanical problem (and i do in the form of thin discs) all the thinking in the world cannot change this in compairison to other methods that are proven, Think about it --- If we had this kind of contol over ourselves people would be living to 400 years old who have masterd this, the fact is is just like anything else our parts wear out, Any kayaker knows that proper paddling form consists of putting all of your energy into your torso and this (not arms) is how a good paddling stroke is achieved, this will also "frett' away your discs in your lower back,,, hell Lynn, i remember when spring melt would come around --- one spring i spent 17 out of 17 straight days in the river from 4 to 8 hours a day! This is at 41 years old, I couldnt find a young kid to hang with cuz they would be all worn out,, I had positive emotions going on like iv never had in my life!!! yet i worn down my discs (as i mentioned before all the mountain biking and also squating 405 lbs in the gym for over a decade pobably didnt help) My wirering harness is getting pinched and i have to regress this, at least we have warning systems to keep it from getting severed, The mind can control many things but its also limited ------ I have some very good friends that have tried the aproach that you speak of just in a differnt form, for awhile they believed that they could think there way out of anything that bothered them, i used to argue with them that if they took a sip of plutonium 238 that i dont care what they thought of --- i knew what the outcome would be and how long it would take to happen:p

Positive attitude is key, but recognizing cause and effect is the only real tool that helps us put the puzzle together,,,
To me this is where modern medicine gets lost, they dont even take it to the cause and effect, they just treat the pain with drugs for the most part, Im a mechanic who has a mechanical problem, and i intend to fix it, now was it caused by improper wheel alignment or going to fast over rough roads, well --- since my left leg is 1/2" longer than the other i would have to conceed a little of both, with the added poor lubrication factor also, Its not the years, its the mileage... i actually have this under control now, the real trauma is when you dont know whats going on and how to remedy it, that is a helpless feeling and all i can say to those who suffer with whatever, never give up, the only thing people sometimes have is hope for a better tomorrow, in fact that was me a couple years ago and I have a niece with MS who has been dealing with "just hope" for way to long, but at least its something --- it keeps her positive and without that then all kinds of things spiral downhill...

I never took an anti-biotic untill the age of 43, this has been an incredible learning journey for me and over the past couple years iv been gaining momentum again, never had a problem and then bam --- iv been very lucky, most guys i hear talk of that invincible feeling being lost were in there twenties and a few in thier thirties, for me it was 40 but its just a service interval light coming on on the dashboard indicating i need to pay more attention to preventative maintenance, I'll be baaaack.