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J Tiers
08-20-2006, 12:07 AM
Another estate sale.

I actually bough some stuff that was reasonable priced, like quite cheap. Got a lot of step blocks, studs and nuts in the size I needed (5/16-18) for $1 per bag..... And some other misc stuff.

But

Old craftsman (as in very old) drill press, benchtop type, good shape.... $500 pricetag....

Very small old power hacksaw, smaller than an asian bandsaw, cut maybe 3 x 3 workpiece max....$300.

And, the really odd thing is, I was there when a sale worker hung a "sold" sign on the drillpress!

Someone paid $500 for that thing..... It was a good $50 or $75 drillpress......possibly even $100

Great... prices has just went up again..... musta been an ebay person

CCWKen
08-20-2006, 01:14 AM
I too went to an estate auction today. Got a old 12" Craftsman (103.24280) band saw for $140 in pristine condition with a box load of extra blades. The band saw is a pre-60's model made by King-Seeley. The stand is cast iron! Also some antique auto tools, old ignition and regulator testers and a "brand new" 70 year old wheel puller. I'm in hog heaven. :D

DR
08-20-2006, 08:57 AM
"Old craftsman (as in very old) drill press, benchtop type, good shape.... $500 pricetag...."

If this was one of the 15" Atlas dp's rebadged as Craftsman it might not totally out of line price-wise. High for a garage sale, yes, but those are one of the best dp's in that size. If the condition was good, it'd be hard to find the equivalent for less.

J Tiers
08-20-2006, 10:52 AM
I don't think it was, it looked more like a "Companion" than an Atlas.... And I had turned down at least two similar DPs a couple years ago, floor models, for $120 or so ...........

And not long ago I bought an 18" Atlas industrial DP (that was really a Clausing, they sorted out the branding after that) for under $200. It is 5x the DP those are. $500 just doesn't seem right.

As for "buying the equalent".... Of course. But then you get into the sticky mess of "value", and "worth", etc.

If an old an admittedly worn machine is "worth" the same sort of price as a "nice new" maxchine because both will drill holes, we are in deep trouble. I don't know if that should RAISE the price of OLD machines, or LOWER the price of NEW...

I heard about someone who sold an Atlas 12" lathe for $3000 (not NIB or anything), and said it was reasonable because it was "worth" that.

The reasoning was that "what would you otherwise have to pay for a lathe?", and also "adjusted for todays inflation and salaries, that is actually a substantial discount".

Perhaps so................. but when you buy new, you have the expectation that there is no wear, the company stands behind the product, and the product is in nominal factory-fresh condition as far as alinements of solid parts, etc. You expect that the company will be able to supply repair parts if needed (these days that is only "nominally" true, but....)

Used, there is wear, bending and misalinement of parts, there are parts like bearings which need replacement, if they are even available.

The manufacturer (in this case we assume now Clausing) will NOT have any parts for that DP, it is a complete orphan. They had nothing for mine other than a so-so manual PDF.

So the price, "worth" and "value" notwithstanding, must reflect those conditions.

Probably the buyer is not an experienced machine rebuilder, and will not be able to properly rectify those problems that occur. And even if the buyer WERE, top dollar for a rebuild candidate doesn't even fly for a 10EE.

wierdscience
08-20-2006, 11:42 AM
I can't see $500 for a small used drillpress,not when a 2hp #3mt taper import can be had new for that with a warranty.That one reminds me of the auction last year where a $89 Lowes Delta hobby machine on a angle iron stand went for $175 + the BP and sales tax.

Every once and awhile you used to see things sell for new price,now it's routine,part of the problem might be that more and more auction companies are taking credit cards and that makes it too easy to spend too much..

DR
08-20-2006, 12:25 PM
I'll stand by my contention, if it was a 15" Atlas in good condition there is nothing new on the market that compares until you get into the $1500+ range. The condition was described as good which equates to nearly as new, years of life ahead of it.

Those are the smoothest running dp's I've seen and they came equipped with a Jacob's safety collar 1/2" capacity chuck (none of that nonsense of the import's Morse taper adapted drill chucks).

I have several of the Atlas/Craftsman dp's and I certainly wouldn't let any of them go for $500 although the most I paid was $150. Mine are used next to the CNC machines for secondary operations. I value the quiet smoothness, accurate running chucks, of vibration for delicate drilling opeations.

If this dp was a Companion, then drop the price to around $50 and it'd be marginal.

On edit: You can't compare old quality American made dp's with the imports. For one thing the bases, whether bench top or floor model, are so small I'd be afraid they'd tip over if not bolted down. Then we have the Morse taper socket in the spindle, ridiculous for a small dp. Then the depth stops, some imports don't even have positive depth stops. Then we have the quill stroke, shallow compared to older American. About the only thing the imports have to offer as an advantage is the low price, that soon becomes an illusion if the machine is used a constant basis.

wierdscience
08-20-2006, 01:51 PM
Those are the smoothest running dp's I've seen and they came equipped with a Jacob's safety collar 1/2" capacity chuck (none of that nonsense of the import's Morse taper adapted drill chucks).


On edit: You can't compare old quality American made dp's with the imports. For one thing the bases, whether bench top or floor model, are so small I'd be afraid they'd tip over if not bolted down. Then we have the Morse taper socket in the spindle, ridiculous for a small dp. Then the depth stops, some imports don't even have positive depth stops. Then we have the quill stroke, shallow compared to older American. About the only thing the imports have to offer as an advantage is the low price, that soon becomes an illusion if the machine is used a constant basis.

I'm not talking the $100 truckload-o-junk sale drill presses,I am instead refering to the larger,more powerful Taiwan made units.500lbs of iron is nothing to laugh at and there is nothing wrong with a MT-chuck adapter,so long as it's understood that a better breed of chuck is required.

$500 for that drillpress is marginal since a good Leland-Gifford thats 3x's the machine in everyway can be had for less at auction.The current #2lms we have at work we paid $75 for in running condition with an Albretch chuck.It also along with nearly every other form of industrial drillpress uses the mt-x-jt system.

I think the key here is size,the Atlas has that going for it.It has resonable capacity,but is still small enough to be lain over in a pickup or trailer and hauled home.Same affliction goes for lathes,small means more value simply because of portability.

Scishopguy
08-20-2006, 04:34 PM
I can't see $500 for a small used drillpress,not when a 2hp #3mt taper import can be had new for that with a warranty.That one reminds me of the auction last year where a $89 Lowes Delta hobby machine on a angle iron stand went for $175 + the BP and sales tax.

Every once and awhile you used to see things sell for new price,now it's routine,part of the problem might be that more and more auction companies are taking credit cards and that makes it too easy to spend too much..

This will make you guys go crazy. A friend of mine went to an estate auction yesterday and saw a Delta, variable speed, commercial duty, floor model drill press go for $150. Every once in a while someone gets lucky. The same guy bought a 16" RBI wood planer, at an auction while we were out in Arkansas, for $100. Some guys just fall into it.

DR
08-20-2006, 04:57 PM
This will make you guys go crazy. A friend of mine went to an estate auction yesterday and saw a Delta, variable speed, commercial duty, floor model drill press go for $150. Every once in a while someone gets lucky. The same guy bought a 16" RBI wood planer, at an auction while we were out in Arkansas, for $100. Some guys just fall into it.

Not me, 'cause that's likely one of the few older good old made in America one's I don't like (assuming here that it was an old one). The variable speed is the part I wouldn't have. More trouble than they're worth, noisy, frequent maintenance, expensive to fix, vibration, etc, etc, etc.

With the low cost of VFD's, all of a sudden step pulley models are looking much better. A 120V input VFD with 1hp output can now be purchased for less than $150!!

hornluv
08-20-2006, 07:00 PM
I was at a flea market this morning and there was a guy selling beaten up micrometers for $20 and up and a single 1-2-3 block for $10. I guess since it's old and well used, it must be collectible and therefore worth more.

J Tiers
08-20-2006, 10:37 PM
All I can say is that the DP in the foreground of the pic below cost me much less than $500, even with repair parts, and it is 5x the drillpress. Maybe because it stands almost 7 feet tall...?

It is an 18" Atlas, but was quickly re-branded Clausing, since the manual says Clausing only.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/newannex.jpg

Put their $500 with the $300 for a little shop-built looking power hacksaw..... Nuh-uh, they were just high.

Can't call them delusional, they sold the thing...... But I have seen nicer Walker-Turner, and Canedy-Otto industrial DPs in the same size go for $75 and glad to get it.

I went back and picked up a 2 ton arbor press for $20. Not chinese, but older Japanese. Not everything was high...

ERBenoit
08-21-2006, 08:55 AM
Some guys just fall into it.
I, on occasion fall into some of those "it's". Though the "it's" I usually fall into, are prefixed by the letters "sh".