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Saverio Gaudiano
08-21-2006, 04:00 PM
Minor cuts, punctures, and lacerations from shop activities are common and usually treated with simple cleaning and bandaging techniques. However, serious injuries require much more agressive treatment.

The US Army recognized that controlling blood loss quickly translates to saving lives on the battlefield, and equipped each soldier's back pack with a zeolite coagulator. It has been highly effective and since widely adopted by the civilian medical community. Emergency Medical Technicians and police find it particularly valuable in saving lives.

I witnessed zeolite being used to control large area bleeding following skin cancer surgery. It produced an artificial scab that was sluffed off in about 6 days and left new skin beneath. The second episode was last night when my wife accidentially made a deep, 1" long cut, in her thumb that bled profusely. I applied QR Powder and lightly compressed the wound for 30 minutes. When uncovered, the bleeding had completely stopped and the cut site resembled a wound that had developed a natural scab after several days. It was then covered with a large Band-Aid for further healing.

Background references on zeolite and its medical benefits can be found by doing a Google search of "QR Powder". The QR product is made by Biolife, but other manufacturers sell much the same thing. It is inexpensive and I keep small packets of it in my shop, automobile, and home. I highly recommend it.

thistle
08-21-2006, 04:17 PM
Welcome to the forum.

Interesting.

I always carry a couple of the large field dressings around in my bag , and have one handy in my shop.

Evan
08-21-2006, 04:18 PM
Rather an odd first post. Are you trying to promote a product?

thistle
08-21-2006, 04:34 PM
well i wondered that,
but he has filled out a profile so maybe hes just trying to get started ,time will tell....

lynnl
08-21-2006, 04:52 PM
Regardless, promotion or not, I am glad to hear about it. Was not aware of it.

ERBenoit
08-21-2006, 05:10 PM
No medical expert,

Cyanoacrylate, (Krazy Glue) was first developed for similar purposes. I believe by the military, for use in the field of battle, prior to the person being transported to a hospital, though I could be wrong. It is now accepted and used in hospitals where stitches, staples are less than ideal, or would cause additional scarring or where a dressing would be cumbersome.

I thought it was strange when my daughter had a laceration above the eye from a frisbee "sutured" at the ER with "Krazy Glue". It worked though, took about a month for the glue to wear off. Hardly any trace of the injury.

jr45acp
08-21-2006, 05:14 PM
ER, you are correct.
And old, former Navy trained Hospitalcorpsman!

Evan
08-21-2006, 05:20 PM
The applications are different. Cyanoacrylate was first deployed in Vietnam and is to take the place of sutures, especially in the field. It isn't suitable to control wide area bleeding such as from severe road rash. Looking at the web site for this the QR powder is primarily for stopping bleeding, not for closing wounds.

I have not heard of the product before either and it is of special interest to me as some members of my family have a factor K clotting deficiency which this material is designed to address.

tattoomike68
08-21-2006, 05:30 PM
I has seen people whos face was put back together with Cyanoacrylate after a car wreak. It did a very good job.

Frank Ford
08-21-2006, 08:21 PM
Around 20 years ago I got a teensy drop of cyanoacrylate on my eyeball, and it stung like hell and scared me into a quick trip to the hospital. The eyeball doctor said that if I were to get glue in my eye, that was a good kind because they used it in eye surgery.

I recall first hearing about the stuff around that time when I was a high school student in the late 50s. My high school was directly across the street from Stanford Research Institute, so we were always hearing about cool new technical stuff like lasers, etc.

Cyanoacrylate is another of those great accidental discoveries. Here's a bit more from an internet source:

"Superglue or Krazy Glue is a substance called cyanoacrylate that was discovered by Dr. Harry Coover while working for Kodak Research Laboratories to develop an optically clear plastic for gunsights in 1942. Coover rejected cyanoacrylate because it was too sticky.
In 1951, cyanoacrylate was rediscovered by Coover and Dr Fred Joyner. Coover was now supervising research at the Eastman Company in Tennessee. Coover and Joyner were researching a heat-resistant acrylate polymer for jet canopies when Joyner spread a film of ethyl cyanoacrylate between refractometer prisms and discovered that the prisms were glued together.

Coover finally realized that cyanoacrylate was a useful product and in 1958 the Eastman compound #910 was marketed and later packaged as superglue."

Later, it did great service on the battlefield. Too bad the field surgical uses had to wait through the second half of WWII and the Korean Conflict.

Now that I think of it, it's really too bad we mark time periods in our history by wars. . .

laddy
08-21-2006, 08:48 PM
You are a bunch of cut ups. I'll keep an eye out for the crazt glue.

Fasttrack
08-21-2006, 09:08 PM
now that does sound like a handy product to have around - for me anything that doesn't need stitches ... well i just dont worry about it. Usually i let it bleed for a few minutes (good way of getting all the rust and bits of metal out) then i wrap a clean papertowel around it and call it yankee doodle! Zeolite sounds like a good idea for more serious wounds as does the crazy glue - especially for avulsions. I had a bad one a while back that the doctor said couldn't be stitched because of the location and the fact that it was an avulsion. Couldn't get it to stop bleeding for a really long time though. Turns out another doctor said i really should have gotten stitches but it was a difficult suture to make and the urgent care doc wasn't really good enough to do it. I bet super-glue would've done it though.

PolskiFran
08-21-2006, 10:07 PM
The doctor who did my dad's lung operation had success with using medical grade "Super Glue" for heart surgery. The doctor is a heart/lung surgeon and always on the cutting edge.

Frank

Wareagle
08-21-2006, 10:26 PM
Shop first aid? Hmmm..... The second most important first aid item in my shop is the precision tweezers. That is to get the metal slinters out of my hands, fingers, or whatever when I get that stinging feeling.

For bleeding, a dirty shop rag works well! ;) Krazy glue works well for lacerations. Hopsitals are using it more and more these days because it can be implemented faster and with less skill. As with anything, it has its limits.

In a pinch, electrical tape works well, duct tape can be used if needed (it's hell on the hair, though), and clean rags can cover large areas as well as can shirts. Also, if one was to ever come up on an accident in a public area (such as a roadway) and needed bandages, womens' sanitary napkins work very well for wound dressings.

Back to my shop first aid kit; the most important in it is forethought and common sense! :D

cmiller231
08-21-2006, 10:39 PM
A plastic zip lock bag is handy in case of an amputation to carry part to ER
Chris

ERBenoit
08-21-2006, 10:56 PM
A plastic zip lock bag is handy in case of an amputation to carry part to ER
Chris

You'll need to put the "part" on ice if there is to be any chance of a successful re-attachment.

Fasttrack
08-22-2006, 01:27 AM
"In a pinch, electrical tape works well,"

I second that!

Evan
08-22-2006, 02:39 AM
It is beginning to seem to me that this is perhaps the most effective spam posting I have seen yet. If it isn't then where is our topic starter? Hello, are you out there?

Tin Falcon
08-22-2006, 08:01 AM
Saverio:
You have a very interesting background. We would like to hear more from you. As a retired enginer from NASA I am sure you have lots to offer.

Evan: I am not sure this is "Spam" true it is an unusual first post but it is benificial knowledge. also this guy has a full profile set up and has been signed in and "lurking" If he is legit and I am certainly not saying he is not. He has a lot to offer as a retired enginineer from NASA JSC. I believe his expertise is in micro electronics. Lets give this guy a chance. I do not think he is someone that shoud be run off.
Regards
Tin Falcon

Evan
08-22-2006, 10:21 AM
I find it curious as well. The product mentioned is something I want to buy so if it is an ad it is a good one in my book. I have already checked at a local pharmacy and they haven't even heard of it.

Wirecutter
08-22-2006, 10:46 AM
I used to deal with "C.A." (cyanoacrylate) glue a lot at work. Interesting stuff - it's activated with moisture, and it's also water soluable. Some things I recall from the safety and handling documents:

- If you get it in your mouth, chances are it will harden on contact with the inside of your (wet) mouth. Don't mess with it - eventually it will sluff off, at which time you just spit it out.

- If you stick your fingers or other body part together, the most damage is usually done when you rip it apart. To avoid this, soak in water. If you're really in a hurry, acetone (or nail polish remover) will dissolve it, but it can also carry it into your skin.

- If you get it in your eyes, leave it alone and let the tears do the work. It'll really suck, and it'll bug the hell out of you, but messing with it will just do more damage.

- From experience, I can say that large amounts of it get hot when it cures. I spilled about an ounce of it on the thigh of my sweaty jeans, and it got my attention. It also mostly came out in the wash with a long soak.

- When it's heated, the vapors are really nasty - it'll burn any mucous (sp?) membranes, like eyes, nose, throat. In this application, it's very good at showing fingerprints, for example, inside a car or other enclosed space. (crime scenes)

- Generally the thinner (low viscosity) types are fastest curing, but won't fill gaps. The thick stuff cures much slower.

Very interesting stuff - why is it that all of the cool discoveries are "accidents?"

-Mark

Fasttrack
08-22-2006, 01:29 PM
"- From experience, I can say that large amounts of it get hot when it cures. I spilled about an ounce of it on the thigh of my sweaty jeans, and it got my attention. It also mostly came out in the wash with a long soak."

A friend of mine was putting together a model car and got a really bad burn from glue. Apparently he had some kind of catalyst to speed up the reaction (i don't know whether it was super glue or some other model cement) that you sprayed on so you didn't have to hold parts together for a long time. He had some glue on the finger he was using to hold the pieces together and he sprayed the catalyst on. Caused a good burn blister on that finger.

Evan
08-22-2006, 01:41 PM
Cyanoacrylate glues are catalyzed by water. The moisture in the air and on parts is usually sufficient. When spilled on skin it has a huge supply of H2O and can catalyze much faster than normal. That can make it very hot and will actually sometimes fume or smoke.

One brand used for model building is named Hot Stuff as it routinely smokes when used on balsa wood. A trick for ensuring that it goes off and also useful for filling crevices and making fillets is to use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) as a filler. As carbonates contain H2O it catalyzes the reaction immediately and leaves a super tough acrylic/carbonate resin fillet behind that doesn't shrink.

BTW, Lexan was discovered by "accident" by GE Labs.

To quote Einstein: "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?"

lynnl
08-22-2006, 02:02 PM
Hmm? Then I guess research is all I've ever done then! :D

Evan
08-22-2006, 02:21 PM
Another tip for storing cyanoacrylate glue: Keep it in a small sealed jar with a packet of dessicant. This will keep the normally present humidity from killing it and it will last a very long time.

Also, the baking soda trick works best using very low viscosity glue that wicks in immediately. It's a great trick for repairing cracked plastic tool housings.

Evan
08-22-2006, 06:15 PM
Ok Saverio Gaudiano, where are you? You have left a fair footprint on the web. I see you were once chief of the microelectronics section at JSC in the 70's through 90s. Cool stuff, especially single event upsets from radiation. I have wondered how much of a limit that will impose on the use of current CPU technology beyond the Van Allen belts?

Saverio Gaudiano
08-22-2006, 08:01 PM
The information contained in my original post was based on a genuine desire to help prevent certain medical emergencies from becoming very serious. Member responses accumulated to date indicate the zeolite compound will be of immediate help to some, and potentially many more.

Although the Biolife web page says their product is widely available, I could not fine it in my area at any of the named locations. I have not yet tried the much better equipped medical supply houses near hospitals, but suspect they will likely have it. Mine came from Albertson's in Tampa, Florida, via a visit from my daughter two weeks ago. It consisted of four capsules in a box for about $6.00. Another alternative is to pursue the Biolife web page offer. They will send samples of the product for a small shipping charge.

In the early 60's I spent three years at the Baylor University, College of Medicine, Biophysics Department. While there, I helped graduate students with senior research projects. One experiment used CA glue to connect small blood vessels together as part of heart-lung transplant work. The glue was applied with an air brush while the two vessel ends were placed together over a Platinum wire mandrel. Once the vessels were joined, the mandrel was removed through a small hole in the wall of the vessel. The hole was then sealed with more CA glue. It appeared to work perfectly, but I cannot say if it was ever used in patients.

Saverio Gaudiano
08-22-2006, 09:32 PM
You may already know some of the information presented below, but here is at least a partial answer to your questions.

Single Event Upsets (SEU) in Central Processor Units (CPU) and Dynamic Memory are most common in the South Atlantic Anomaly (SLA) because the South Pole's magnetic field exits in that area. It concentrates spaceborne iron particles and they cause SEU's when they hit semiconductor junctions. Elsewhere in orbit ionizing radiation is uniform until the space station nears the North Pole. However, since it does not pass over the North Pole, the problem is considerably reduced. Transient time through the SLA is brief for the most part, but it is still a significant problem. Beyond the Van Allen Radiation Belt the radiation environment is more tolerable because the Earth's magnetic field decreases.

SEU's are treated much the same as other types of failures. Redundancy at the system level is common both in space and on the ground. At least three systems are operational at all times, and two extra units are kept as hot spares. The operational vote and if there is a difference, a hot spare is seamlessly switched in to replace the odd vote unit.

At the circuit level, older Integrated Circuit geometries have been found to be more resistant to ionizing radiation than the most modern structures. The reason is because older geometries are larger is size and therefore more tolerant to particle damage. Redundancy can also employed at the circuit level and one novel technique is to use a dual port memory. Here, two CPU's share the same memory. Both are hot, but only one processes data. If it misses a clock pulse, the second CPU is switched in and the other switched out.

In memory, Word bits are stored in a distributed manner rather than together as one would normally expect. An ionizing particle hitting a memory cell may alter a bit of information, but would not necessarily destroy the entire word. And, the incorrect Word can be detected in various ways.

In software, Cyclic Redundancy Checking (CRC) and Parity checks are available as are other error sensing techniques. It really depends on the system as to which is used. For example, Class III Experiments do not involve the safety of the crew or vehicle. Therefore, they may use minimal error checking techniques or none at all. Parity checks take computational time and for that reason are not desired in very fast systems.

If you anyone have other questions not related to my original subject, contact me at SGAUDIANO36@AOL.COM

Evan
08-22-2006, 09:46 PM
I am aware of the SLA and the effect it has. My reference to beyond the Van allen belt is in respect of future missions, if they happen, to the moon and further. Because of the small feature sizes employed in modern cpus they are far more sensitive to disturbance. Correct me if I am wrong but it is my understanding that the 486 DX4 is still in use for spaceborne applications. How will the sensitivity of small feature size devices limit their use on future missions, if at all? It is also my understanding that CMOS devices are much more resistant because of the larger noise margins.

Aside from SEUs what is the probability of real damage from cosmic rays? How is this dealt with on communications satellites? I am familiar with the charging effects from CME's and how they can affect electronics but what about direct particle damage?

Now that we have somebody here with direct knowledge of this area you aren't going to get away that easy. :D

Tin Falcon
08-22-2006, 10:17 PM
Saverio:
Welcome to the board hope you hang around and post once in a while at least. The closest I have been to aerospace work was helping make a rescue key for the space shuttle while in the Air Guard. Another company I worked for made a few parts that are still on the moon.That was before I worked there.
Lots of good, knowledgeable, and inteligent folks here . We can always use another one.
BTW I checked the local drug store for the product you recomended. They did not have it . I did find mutton tallow and snake oil on the shelves though. LOL Again welcome and looking forward to future posts.
Regards
Tin Falcon

JCHannum
08-22-2006, 11:22 PM
A Google search on QR Powder shows that Cabelas, among others handle it. Perhaps camping or sporting goods suppliers may be as good a source as the corner drugstore.

Saverio Gaudiano
08-23-2006, 01:29 AM
In the 90's I sponsored the test of a 486 Board at Texas A&M's radiation facility, but I do not remember the exact CPU version. I do remember that it survived except at very high dosages. I cannot say if any 486 hardware is still flying, or if it is planned for the future. What I can say is that flight hardware, except possibly for Laptop Computers, is unlikely to be cutting edge technology. Functional reliability is paramont in space flight applications and mature hardware is always selected for that reason. The 486 family generally meets this criteria and some of it may indeed be flying.

The JSC uses a number of radiation facilities, including the ones at the University of Chicago and at Brookhaven. In almost all cases the test environment consists of a high-energy Neutron beam generated within a Linear Accelerator. The dosage is adjusted to be a heavy ion equivalent. All Experiment, off-the-shelf CPU-based (i.e. Laptop computers), and similar types of flight hardware are tested as part of the flight certification process.

At this point, no one can predict what technology will be used if NASA ever goes back to the Moon. However, there is little doubt in my mind that it will be CMOS and that device structures will be very small. Those characteristics describe the present technology and it is unlikely to dramatically change. I am not an expert on Lunar radiation environments, but believe that it is not severe. Therefore, small geometry CMOS devices will probably work just fine.

I was involved in Space Suit Radio and Antenna development several decades ago, but had very little to do with satellites. They were handled by the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt Maryland. As such, I cannot answer your Cosmic Ray question.

Evan
08-23-2006, 02:00 AM
Thanks for the info Saverio. I have always been especially interested in astrophysics, the space program and astronomy as well as computers. I am especially interested in radiation effects since that can be a major and unpredictable problem. I wonder what would happen to a cpu core it it were struck by something like the "Oh-My-God-Particle"? That was a single proton (cosmic ray) with an estimated energy of 3 × 10^20 electron volts. That's higher by many orders of magnitude than any ordinary cosmic ray and it isn't the only one detected. They have been detected at a rate of around one per year. The amount of energy it had was about equal to a baseball moving at 60 mph. That is an inconceivable amount of energy for a single proton. I suspect if something like that punched into something dense in a spacecraft the secondary shower would fry everything.

Too_Many_Tools
08-24-2006, 02:41 AM
So does anyone know how to keep super glue from solidifying before you want it to?

I have yet to successfully store any super glue that has been opened for any length of time.

TMT

Evan
08-24-2006, 03:18 AM
As I said, keep it in a sealed jar with a dessicant packet. As long as it is kept dry it will last at least six months to even a year.

pcarpenter
08-24-2006, 11:35 AM
I have some of the gelled Loctite branded cyanoacrylate adhesive that has been sealed in the refrigerator for maybe 10 years now. I have a tube of that stuff open now and it has been good for years. It cures by moisture absorption, so keeping it sealed is the key as Evan mentioned. The refrigerator tip is one I got for long-term storage and is not really related to what happens after it is open. I don't know if the refrigeration was really valuable or not...but the stuff still works *many* years later.

Paul

lynnl
08-24-2006, 03:12 PM
I too have a tube of Loctite (liquid) CA that I've stored in the refrigerator since first opening and using it some 6 or 7 years ago (maybe longer).
Still worked fine the last time I used it, probably 6 months ago.

It seems far superior to any other superglue I've ever used.

Evan
08-24-2006, 04:16 PM
Two things if you store it in a fridge; it must be well sealed and let it warm up completely before using or it may not go "off" properly.

rsr911
08-26-2006, 12:52 AM
Speaking of accidental discoveries, I got my first patent through my company that way. We were trying to develop a sticker that could be worn on the skin and would change color to tell the user when they'd had enough sun (UV) exposure. Basicaly the UV radiation from the sun degrades the polymer and causes a pH drop which causes a pH indicating dye to change color. We couldn't get it to turn color at a low enough dosage of UV and I tried a chemical (won't say here) intended for an entirely different application, much to my surprise it worked like a charm. It took our chemist who has over 80 patents to his credit in the adhesives and coatings field almost a year to determine just what was happening by adding this chemical. Since he was the founder of the company now passed on to his son they rewarded me with my name on the patent and a nice bonus. Last year we did well with the product through a marketing firm who managed to sell it to a major diaper manufacturer who included a package of the stickers with their swimming diapers as an added value item. This year promises to be even better for the product.

Obviously I don't want to give away too many details as there are business concerns at stake but I can say the product is on the market and as a person with fair skin and a daughter and wife with fair skin we have found it invaluable as a warning against sunburn. When the sticker changes we get out of the sun or apply more sunscreen.

I'd also like to welcome Saverio to the forum, my father is a retired ME who spent his career at NASA GRC (formerly Lewis) primarily in the aeronautical propulsion area. Since his retirement from NASA he spent a few years heading up a branch office for a consulting firm then fully retired about 2 years ago. These days he's building what I consider to be far too large a house for my mother and him but hey it's their money (and time spent cleaning etc.) Once they move in this winter dad will have his woodworking shop setup again and it's my intention to do a father/son project CNC router for him to make signs and other wooden artwork on.