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View Full Version : Wrongful DUI Detention caused a major money loss, are they responsible?



mnadeja
08-27-2006, 02:18 AM
I just have to ask a few of you if anything like this has ever happened.

I had a rush job to do for a company that I had 48 hours to do. It was to repair a machine for a large local company, and there is extensive machining and work to do, it took about 18 hours to complete start to finish. And that was pushing it, I was sweating hard.
It pays Extremely well, I would have got just about $250 an hour on this one if you figure the 18 hours it took. But the deal is, if not done in 48 hours, the job is free.
I deal with them a lot, and that is the way they are pays well because they are losing a lot more per hour with the machine broke compared to what they are paying me.

I had it done in the afternoon, plenty early.
I can't deliver it early, I had to be there at 11pm to meet the maintenance guy for his shift to deliver the part. It is only a 15-20 minute drive, I left an hour ahead just to be there waiting for them to unload me at 11.

Well on the way, I got pulled over, cop said I was driving too slow and swerving. I was taking my time and the road is full of potholes so I was driving around them, the part is about 1500 pounds and was in the back of my truck, yes tied down but I don't want to hit every hole in the road.

He Asked where I came from I said my shop, he said I stink like alcohol and get out of the truck. That was it. I probably stunk like sweat or cutting oil, but not alcohol.

He made me walk the stupid line on the side of the road, it was completely dark and I walked straight but missed the line a little he said. I could barely even see it, the road isnt very clean. Anyway then told me to say the alphabet backwards. I thought that was always a joke. Well of course I stumbled saying it, can anyone say it backwards??????? I said are you kidding me?
So he started to get an attitude and put me in the back of the police car with handcuffs and said I was drunk, and another cop came. Then it looked like I robbed a bank, about 3 more showed up over the next 5 minutes but just hung out in their cars pretty much.

This guy is brand new in the area, and had a hard on for something.

They gave me a breathalyzer and It came up as absolutely NOTHING. They both said it must be broke so they took me to the hospital for Blood test, they said I was surely drunk and it is not registering anything, so it must be broken.

I had to call my brother to come get my truck while another cop waited there with it, they raced me to the hospital with their lights on to get blood drawn, and then dropped me off at home after they took me for blood. I was so damn pissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got right in my truck and went to deliver the part, about an hour late. (I always thought they towed your vehicle but it was not the case, and this did not take long at all, maybe 1.5 hours max for everything)

The blood test results will take about 2 months to get back they say, but I HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DRINK!!!!!!!! IT HAS BEEN OVER A MONTH SINCE I EVEN HAD A BEER BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN WORKING TOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is all on camera from the police cars, and my blood tests will come back as ZERO, I mean there is absolutley NO question at all SO WHAT THE HELL CAN I DO?

OK if he thought I was going slow, thats fine. I don't agree with Drunk Driving either, I seen a few innocent people killed by it. BUT I blew in the breathalyzer and it was nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And they still took me. Plus I was covered in grease, with a part in the back of my truck, obviously my story fit what I was doing before that.
I am just so pissed right now I had to post this. This cop is a total idiot.
I talked to the maintenance guy and he was cool about it, I think it will slide in as being there at 11, but I can't be sure.
I stand to lose about $4500 IF the company realizes that it was late, I don't think so but really it was late, and there is no exception, like if I get a flat tire or something its my problem, that is what I leave early and have some extra time.
You can comment if you want but I am steaming now so I had to blow some off. This didn't help much.

A.K. Boomer
08-27-2006, 02:39 AM
I hope you coast through this just fine, its then up to you if you want to raise a ruckus, if you dont coast through then you need to raise a huge ruckus --- make some heads roll, its unacceptable what they did, they are losers without a clue...

EDMTech
08-27-2006, 03:04 AM
Near as I can tell, they pretty much have absolute power and there won't be much you can do. They will just stand behind the blue wall of silence and all proclaim that they had some reasonable suspicion that you were intoxicated, and it would have been an endangerment to the public to allow you to drive etc etc. Although from what you are saying about having a large part in the truck, the added weight (meaning reduced braking capability) and swerving for potholes (pothole + heavy vehicle = flat tire/possible accident) they should have realized you were doing the RIGHT thing and commended you on it.

What I don't get is how they can take you for a blood test that will take TWO MONTHS to get the results back on, then just take you home when you could (if you were drunk) just go back out and drive. I don't know how things are around you, but here the field breathalizers are not admissible in court, they are just a kind of a referance device. The only one that counts is the breathalizer at the police station. Kind of like shop tools and calibrated QC tools I suppose....

I'll tell you one thing though; whether you get paid or not, I'd have a lawyer on their asses for something. The hell if 5 punk cops are going to make me take time from my day to become a human pin cushion at the local hospital for no damn good reason. Yes, sometimes even lawyers are good for something!

Cops... never there when you need them, and always there when you don't! :mad:

TUNAMAN
08-27-2006, 06:27 AM
Hi
Sorry about your run-in with the idiots
I agree that the new-young-punk-arrogent-idiot-pigs are as dumb as a dead CNC.:mad:
I would get a lawyer whether I got payed or not, that is pissing me off just thinking about it.................
And to think years ago I actually had respect for them, NO MORE!!!!!

-Danny

jr45acp
08-27-2006, 06:42 AM
Seek out an attorney and lay out the scenario to him/her and find out what, if any, recourse you may have.

IOWOLF
08-27-2006, 07:44 AM
Is this really the place for Alleged drunk driver discussion?
Good luck though.

Rustybolt
08-27-2006, 09:59 AM
Write a strong(not nasty) letter to the chief of police outlining just what happened. Remind him that as a business you generate many more tax dollars than the average citizen. Explain what the officer's behavior may have cost you. Remind him/her that it isn't your fault that their officers don't know how to use their own equipment. Use your company letterhead. I can guarantee you that the officer will be directing traffic for awhile.

Greg Menke
08-27-2006, 10:03 AM
Sorry for the OT reply, but my wife had a similar experience at a DUI checkpoint. Count yourself lucky they let you out that night- she was sober and kept in handcuffs in the police station till 5am the next morning. Cops can do basically whatever they please.

Give the lawyer thing a try if you like but if the cop followed "procedure" then you're most likely screwed no matter if they messed up or not. Best as I can tell as long as you weren't arrested & charged then nothing wrong was done as far as the law is concerned- your monetary loss is not their problem. Your only consolation is his overeager stuffed-shirt attitude caused him to mess up his DUI quota.

I don't hate cops, I just don't trust them anymore either.

Greg

thistle
08-27-2006, 10:21 AM
I would humbly suggest that the only recourse you might have , is to simply try to get an interview with his supervisor, and explain what happened and how this has affected you.

if you get the right guy,and can appeal to him, the officer in question might get chewing out ,and might even get an apology.
you have to use a lot of honey rather than a stick.

I can tell you that if you write letters or get a lawyer you will not get any where.

Carld
08-27-2006, 11:25 AM
I don't think you have any recourse. The police have complete power when they stop you as long as they follow procudure and can charge you with anything they want to.

A.K. Boomer
08-27-2006, 11:28 AM
Is this really the place for Alleged drunk driver discussion?
Good luck though.



UBjackel,,, your an idiot, Is this really the place to question a discussion that is actually going quite well, is full of some good info and Is about a guy who just got done machining a part - has it in the back of his truck - has a deadline to meet with delivery and worked so late that maybe it put him close to the time the bars let out (like many of us do) then has to deal with all kinds of CRAP, Do you think it could be helpful to somebody else that goes through the same situation?, maybe be a reminder for them? Do you think maybe this might have happend to somebody else and maybe they can shed some light on how they went about it with a positive result?
Like i said before UB, thousands of posts and nobodys learned a thing from u,
Almost everything is relevant here, If you cant share anything shut the hell up and try to learn something for a change.....

Evan
08-27-2006, 11:33 AM
Read this. A very similar case. A settlement was paid.

http://www.getmadd.com/daytonaarrest.htm

cuemaker
08-27-2006, 11:37 AM
Here is my .02

You admitted that you where driving slow and swerving a tad to miss potholes. You also admitted that you probably smelled of at least cutting oil. Heck, you where even very tired I bet to slow you down in all your reactions.

And no, I cant say my ABC's backward at all.

The cop had enough probable cause to do what he did.

It is just sad that you got caught in unfortunate circumstances.

A.K. Boomer
08-27-2006, 11:45 AM
Sorry for the OT reply, but my wife had a similar experience at a DUI checkpoint. Count yourself lucky they let you out that night- she was sober and kept in handcuffs in the police station till 5am the next morning. Cops can do basically whatever they please.

Give the lawyer thing a try if you like but if the cop followed "procedure" then you're most likely screwed no matter if they messed up or not. Best as I can tell as long as you weren't arrested & charged then nothing wrong was done as far as the law is concerned- your monetary loss is not their problem. Your only consolation is his overeager stuffed-shirt attitude caused him to mess up his DUI quota.

I don't hate cops, I just don't trust them anymore either.

Greg

Greg, I think your right on topic with this post, but I have to say, there has to be a line drawn somewhere, Cops cannot do whatever they please, So if they can set you up for financial ruin whats next --- can they interfere with people getting thier medication and kill them, how bout picking up your elderly mothers meds...... this aint cut and dry, A line has to be drawn somewhere... This guy was innocent till proven guilty, if he was proven innocent later and there was major repercussions because he was treated as guilty then I would think that there should be consequences for those actions.

Carld
08-27-2006, 11:53 AM
When the police stop you they can detain you for what ever they want that is related to the incident. If they arrest and book you then you may have recourse. If they turn you loose without booking you I don't think you can do anything. This is just from what I have read and been told so I don't know how accurate it is and it may vary from state to state or county. I will ask a cop this week.

Evan
08-27-2006, 12:00 PM
Any lawsuit brought against the officer would be tried in civil court, not criminal court. The standards of evidence and proof are much lower in civil court and there is no presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Also, the wrongful act, which is called a tort offence, need not be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" to have been committed by the officer. It only requires that a high probability of the action occuring be shown.

The officer does have something to worry about and if this were persued a settlement would be likely. There was clear cause visible for the explanation of the driving and the odor detected. The negative reading on the breath analyzer is admissible in a civil case. In a civil case everything that happened is admissible since the outcome of the case does not result in depriving somebody of their liberty.

Wirecutter
08-27-2006, 12:12 PM
Unless you're willing to expend a lot of time and money, you're screwed.

You're probably guilty of one of the most dangerous crimes out there - for the perpetrator. That crime is "Contempt of Cop". I'm going to guess that when the cop pulled you over, you were just a wee bit surly or impatient with him. Or at least, that's what the cop thought. That got the ball rolling. From then on, all of those cops new exactly what they were doing and why. And I'm sure they enjoyed your inconvenience.

Everybody knows thousands of examples of this, and not just from the celebrated cases like Rodney King or the guy that was killed in an NYC police precinct by being sodomized with a broom handle. In my old home town, Virginia Beach, the favorite tactic was the old "fit the description of..." shakedown. If you were a male of a certain age, and the cop felt like searching you and generally causing some inconvenience, he'd detain you by saying you "fit the description" of someone who reportedly tried to rob a store, burn down a theater, blah blah. If you weren't totally cooperative, you were in for a long, hard time. Oh, and swearing cost you $120 per incident. Resisting arrest caused aggravated assault and injury, not that you could prove anything. You get the idea. And God help you if, in his search, the cop turns up a pocket knife, or (gasp!) a switchblade, or even drugs!

Ordinarily, and at it's most "upright", the "fit the description" shakedown was a way to invent probable cause for a search. Which, in the mid-to-late 1970s meant that, if you didn't want to be treated like a drug user or dealer by the VB police, you'd better dress nice at all times and keep your hair cut "cop short".

Nowdays, if I ever get pulled over, I treat the cop like I'm in the presence of someone of great power and deserving of the utmost respect. (And without a trace of sarcasm) This worked for me once a couple of years ago when I was pulled for "doing at least 80" in a 55 zone. I was doing between 55-60, which I know because I was setting the cruise control. There was no radar involved - it was strictly the cop's judgement by eyeball. What he'd seen was this: two cars in the right lane had just started moving after a light turned green. I was in the other lane and was pretty much at speed. I overtook the two other cars when they had reached a speed of 35 or so. Seen from the side, a car going 55 passing one going 35 looks like you're really blowing by the guy. This is what the cop saw. Once I realized this, and that the cop was dead wrong, I had to convince him that he was mistaken in the most gentle way possible. No rubbing his nose in it or anything like that - I had to find a way for him to not lose any face. I don't know how I did it, but I got away unscathed. I was extremely respectful and polite, without sounding "uppity", and I did everything I was told. I took a field breathalizer, which came up 0, and with a warning was sent on my way.

Without a major effort, there's nothing that can be done about it. I think the Japanese expression is: "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down."

-Mark

Millman
08-27-2006, 12:19 PM
Cops and the laws are evil. Anyone given too much power and control over another human is evil. Communist Nazis motherf======. Checkpoints and stoppoints are illegal. Americans are basically led to the slaughter by these idiots and their Supporters.

Fasttrack
08-27-2006, 12:21 PM
Evan is correct - although the cop had enough cause to pull you over, after the breathalyzer they should have let you go. I'm sure you could get a settlement but the trouble is if you hire a lawyer he'll see at least half of the settlement... Incidently i can say the alphabet backwards but i have to do it three letters at a time - try that next time :D

Greg Menke
08-27-2006, 12:22 PM
All the officer needs to show is he followed procedure and had probable cause, in this case the "odor" and since the DUI song & dance routine wasn't executed perfectly thats sufficient. The blood test will come back 0% and no-one will be charged- so there's not much to sue over. You could try to sue for the lost income I guess but I wouldn't be confident about it- you'll probably spend more in your time and lawyers fees than its worth.

Standards for due process and presumption of innocence in DUI/drug related issues are minimal at best. All my wife did was decline to take the breathalyzer, thinking it was in fact optional- nope, out of the car, into handcuffs and a squadcar ride to the police station before she was given another "opportunity" to take a breathalyzer, and after showing 0%, then a 5 hour wait till a judge decided that there was no offence and let her go.

The Justice system is about application & enforcement of law (and also what passes for it), not protection of liberty or civil rights. Cops do indeed have almost complete power over you- if they abuse it, then they <might> get in trouble for it later- if you have the money to finance the lawsuit or a good enough story to get people interested.

Greg

Fasttrack
08-27-2006, 12:25 PM
"Cops and the laws are evil. Anyone given too much power and control over another human is evil. Communist Nazis motherf======. Checkpoints and stoppoints are illegal. Americans are basically led to the slaughter by these idiots and their Supporters."


I don't mind them trying to crack down on drunk driving and i have no pity at all for someone who gets nailed DUI or for any other crime. In fact i think we should take a leaf out of Germany's book for punishing people who are caught DUI. That being said, it is a shame that the citizens don't have more power to help check the power of the police. In an ideal world, the officer would have pulled mnadeja over - asked him to get out of the car and given him the breathalyzer test. At which point the cop would say, "well sir you are obviously within the legal limit, drive safe now" and would then get back in his car and let him drive away. Unfortunantly this is rarely the case - seems like cops like being proven wrong less then the rest of us.

Millman
08-27-2006, 12:32 PM
{{seems like cops like being proven wrong less then the rest of us.}} Does the SS ring a bell to anybody?

Evan
08-27-2006, 12:36 PM
Being detained is arrest. The fact that it hasn't been made official does not change the fact that you have been deprived of liberty. The moment you are taken under guard and are no longer free to leave you are under arrest. Being charged has nothing to do with it.

This quote is Canadian law but the meaning of arrest is the same in the US.



arrest: This is when the police detain someone, telling them they are not free to leave until further notice. Often, an arrest will take place at the same time as a person is charged with an offence (http://www.owjn.org/info/glossar3.htm#off), but not necessarily. The police can arrest someone and keep them in police custody for some time while deciding whether or not to lay a charge against them. If the police decide not to lay a charge, the person will be released.


A civil suit for false arrest is possible even if no charge was laid.

A.K. Boomer
08-27-2006, 01:02 PM
Cops and the laws are evil. Anyone given too much power and control over another human is evil. Communist Nazis motherf======. Checkpoints and stoppoints are illegal. Americans are basically led to the slaughter by these idiots and their Supporters.


Checkpoints are screwed up but did you know that you dont have to go through them, suposedly they have to be set up so that it allows you to be able to either turn off before them or do a U-turn, Cops cant do a thing but dont think they wont be looking at your car for anything to pursue you for like brake lights plate lights or the way your driving,,,

Also with what wirecutter stated about speed, I dont think a cop can just make a judgement anymore, they have to have it on radar and its your responcibility to ask if you can see the proof , im not certain about this one -- just heard it before , but the checkpoint info was actually on my local news recently...

Next time i see a checkpoint I think im going to try it just to piss them off:p

mnadeja
08-27-2006, 01:13 PM
Well the worst thing is that I know most of the cops in the area very well, (not that it makes anything better) and I have total resoect for them. 99.9% of them have good judgement, I didn't mean to bash the general population of them.
Because without them, where would we be when something happens.
But in this case it is absolutely rediculous.
I called a friend of mine that works part time in the same town today, he said there are a number of things wrong and said personally if I were you I would do what I can to hang him up, because this guy is no good. He is getting a reputation.
He said I have to wait until my bloodwork comes back, but that I Must submit some sort of request for official results to come back to me, because if nothing shows, I would just normally not get anything back on it.
But once I have the results and everything and I have it, THEN I can go after than and yes I have an absolute case. He said that if everything I said is exactly what happened, and absolutely they would be responsible for my loss, Plus any money that the company lost from that hour of production if the lawyer was good enough.
I just hate the thought of being that guy that says I am calling a lawyer, I am not that kind of person. But when someone is so stupid, what else do you do?
When another cop tells you to go after him, (and this guy has been around this area as a cop for 20 years) then it is bad.
He told me to talk to the boss, he said if everything is like it was and when the test comes back negative, he bets that they will just do what to takes to make it to go away.

Oh and just to clarify when I said going around potholes, it wasnt like I was swerving like an idiot. This is one of those streets that you can't go more than 5-10 MPH on, or you will hit your head on the roof. There are 2 holes about 3 feet round that are across from each other, and I steered around them.
Wasn't like I was going down the highway swerving all over the road!

Now I keep getting madder every time I think about it. Especially now that my arm is itchy as hell since the nurse had to try 3 times before she got it, with the cop standing there telling her to hurry up!!!!!!!!

Tinkerer
08-27-2006, 01:49 PM
Good Luck... But let me tell you this. They are Immune From Prosecution. Yes the lawyer will take your money the courts will take your filling fee's and in the end you'll be out of much more then what you think you've lost. And it's not just the police any governmental employee is immune from prosecution from action resulting from them doing their "JOB" and they know it and that the problem and the root of the evil. Also the police's main propose is revenue generation not protection. Matter of fact they have no responsibility for your safety or protection. Any ways your situation does sux but that's life in these days, just be happy they did not tow and impound your truck and your part was lost in transit.

Millman
08-27-2006, 02:19 PM
[[Matter of fact they have no responsibility for your safety or protection.]] That's right! What was it again that the taxpayers are paying them to do?

IOWOLF
08-27-2006, 02:23 PM
A.K.Bum, Do you know how to use spell check or just too lazy to.

Did Adrian kick you off his site so you are here bothering us?

BTW what have you brought to this forum but questions and attitude when others don't agree?

Greg Menke
08-27-2006, 02:32 PM
The officer will claim that he had probable cause (exhibiting the "weaving", "odor" and failure to sing & dance properly- on balance showing you were impaired despite the breathalyzer) and followed the proper procedures and therefore did nothing wrong. The way the drunk driving laws are written, the police can basically do whatever they please on the smallest pretexts. There is some difference between the federally funded checkpoints and whatever each state does locally but it sounds like you got the routine treatment (despite the fact the cop made the wrong decision).

If he threw you facedown in the mud and held you at gunpoint until his buddies showed up, then you might have something. Since you were released and won't be charged, the arrest doesn't matter.

I think the best you could expect (if you cause the police dept enough legal & PR trouble) is he'll get reassigned to a different job.

Doesn't matter how arrest is defined, the police's actual liability ends when they follow the procedures, no matter how fair or unfair they happen to be. Their position is if you don't like the procedures, get the laws changed.

After what my wife went through my policy is to stay as far away from cops as possible- don't talk to them, don't be in the same place, leave when they come in. Maybe most times 99.9% of the cops are decent, but I see an awful lot of them in the tight leather jackets, pants tucked into the boots & swaggering around like they own the place, just waiting for somebody to do something. Its a tough and necessary job for sure, but I don't see cops or the Justice system investing much in building & maintaining trust, cheerful slogans painted on the squadcars and quotes chiselled into the courthouse buildings don't cut it.

Greg

A.K. Boomer
08-27-2006, 04:23 PM
A.K.Bum, Do you know how to use spell check or just too lazy to.

Did Adrian kick you off his site so you are here bothering us?

BTW what have you brought to this forum but questions and attitude when others don't agree?


Just too lazy --- deal with it


Who the hell is adrian


My record speaks for itself, wanna dig back into the archives a little and take a look at yours, Sitdown...

A.K. Boomer
08-27-2006, 04:34 PM
You have to wonder the motives for being a cop in the first place, One; there are gallant people out there who really want to help mankind in the worst of situations even if it requires putting thier life on the line, unfortunatly --- Two; there are people who are also attracted to the power and the control they have over other people, the middle path is the minority, (thats why they always play "good cop" "bad cop" --- you never heard of good cop medium cop have you?):rolleyes:

Evan
08-27-2006, 05:00 PM
The police are not immune to prosecution although in a case like this it wouldn't involve prosecution. A false arrest suit is a civil suit and doesn't involve the district attorney. A civil suit can be brought against anyone regardless of the position they hold, in or out of government or a position of authority.

[edit]

Note that there are exceptions in law such as immunity granted to heads of state. Also, certain types of actions are exempt from liability in civil law.

Evan
08-27-2006, 05:15 PM
Here is some more info.



When police fail to perform their duties, perform them negligently, or abuse their authority, the possibility of civil liability exists. Unlike criminal cases, liability cases are tried in civil court. It's common to name everyone associated with the injury or damage as the defendant (officers, supervisors, agencies, even the government entity) in order to reach the "deep pockets." Chances are the higher-ups will have the ability to pay larger awards either personally or by raising taxes. At other times, it's common for an individual officer to be the target of a single accusation, and in such civil action, the officer's personal assets are on the line.
There are two (2) ways to sue the police. One, the lawsuit may be filed in state court as a tort law claim. This is the preferred method since torts can only be settled by money awards and the standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence, a standard much lower to convict than in a criminal case. Two, the lawsuit may be filed in federal court as a violation of Title 42 of the United States Code, Section 1983 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode42/usc_sec_42_00001983----000-.html). This is referred to as a civil rights claim, and is essentially a charge that someone has had their constitutional rights violated. States cannot be sued in a civil rights claim, but municipalities and sheriffs can be sued if they are (a) acting under color of state law, and (b) violating a specific Amendment right in the Constitution. The standards under federal law are custom or policy, and deliberate indifference, a rather poorly defined concept which is similar to totality of circumstances. Although federal lawsuits can result in money awards, the amount is usually less since the purpose is theoretically at least to win and get the agency to change the way it operates; i.e., obtain injunctive relief.


http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOConnor/205/205lect12.htm

Carl
08-27-2006, 05:52 PM
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

...now tell me roadside checkpoints where everyone is stopped with no probable cause aren't unconstitutional...

...how many here knew what the fourth amendment states as YOUR right. Have your children been taught this crucial material? Certain people in power realize virtually no one knows anything about the Bill of Rights, and they take advantage of that fact. I believe when they ask you to consent to any kind of search they are also violating the fifth amendment:


Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

...they pertinent clause here being:


nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself

...the founding fathers would have a field day hanging traitors to the constitution in this country.

...here's a telling tale of attrition due to apathy:


"In Germany, they first came for the communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me–and by that time there was nobody left to speak up."
—Martin Niemöller (1945) [he served seven years in a concentration camp]

wierdscience
08-27-2006, 06:11 PM
I would only do one thing this time,get documentation,copies of the report,names and badge numbers of the cops involved so IF it happens again you can argue harrasment.

We get cops like that here too,young punks on the force that believe they are god's gift to society,we call them "The Hitler youth".They usually last about three months before they pull over the wrong person and get the s--- beat out of them on the side of the road.Those type all have one thing in common,they are gutless wimps when the s--- hits the fan.

What ticks me off is while they were harrasing you,there was someone else WHO REALLY WAS DRIVING DRUNK out on the road with our family and friends.

A few weeks ago my Dad's truck was totaled by a guy who was 3x's the legal limit.This turkey had no license,no insurance,it was his second DUI arrest in two weeks and it was the second car he totaled(in addition to the ones he was driving) in two weeks.
The license and insurance should have added up to $1450 in fines alone,but and this still has me pissed,he never saw the inside of a cell!:mad:
Not one fine was paid,not one dime in bail he was let out on his own recog to go get drunk and wreck another one.Guess they won't do something until he kills somebody.

Greg Menke
08-27-2006, 07:41 PM
I had a chat with a lawyer regarding the "nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself" issue.

Heres how the legal system weasels out of it. Since driving is not considered a right, your continued permission to operate a motor vehicle is wholly dependent on the pleasure of the state. Therefore, a cop can make your drivers license contingent upon taking the breathalyzer- they "ask" so you can have the choice of taking the breathalyzer or face having your license summarily revoked. The officer is not required to explain this tradeoff to you. Either way if the cop thinks there is probable cause for DUI then you're immediately arrested. So you can choose to exercise your constitutional rights, decline to take the test, have your license revoked and walk home (assuming the cop has no probable cause to work with). You'll also be paying for your car to be towed since its now abandoned on public property. Or, you can take the breathalyzer. And by the way, dodging a DUI checkpoint is also a quick way to be arrested since doing so is assumed to be an admission of guilt. Welcome to The Land Of The Free, 2006.

Greg

Evan
08-27-2006, 07:50 PM
Either way if the cop thinks there is probable cause for DUI then you're immediately arrested.

A zero reading on the breath tester pretty well wipes out the "probable cause" defense, especially in a civil suit. Remember, that evidence is admissible in a civil suit.

Millman
08-27-2006, 07:55 PM
[[the founding fathers would have a field day hanging traitors to the constitution in this country.]] Good point, Carl, everyone should be embarassed and hang their head in shame that would support this idiocracy. The only way this will ever be changed, is for people to get a pair and make PUBLIC this Communism. Ben Franklin had a pair. Look around you; people are trained to never have a thought. You either conform to standards, or you are CLASSIFIED as a radical. If those people would ever get a BRAIN and understand this country was founded on individualist thought, there may be some hope. Until someone stands up to confront them, it will get worse. Every country is taken over from the INSIDE. MAKE it public!! These Gmen know exactly what I think, and they are AFRAID to confront me.

Greg Menke
08-27-2006, 07:57 PM
Unfortunately it doesn't, Evan. The officer explained the procedure to my wife while she sat in handcuffs. The officer can work on the "preponderance" of probable cause. Blowing zero reduces the probable cause but does not eliminate the "weaving", "odor" or "failure to recite" factors. Its left up to the officer's discretion. In my wife's case she declined the breathalyzer and was nervous- thats all it took. Now we live in Maryland, the checkpoint was in Virginia so the officer could not void her license, but there are measures he could have taken forbidding her to drive in Virginia or face jail-time.

The only way out is for the cop to be convinced that the suspect isn't really intoxicated- but then you're working against his/her perception & personality with no law on your side. By all means talk nicely and clearly- too bad if you're wired & grumpy from too much work.

Greg

Wayne02
08-27-2006, 08:10 PM
Because without them, where would we be when something happens.
When "something happens" "we" would be in the middle of whatever situation is going down at the time (could be very bad, or minor), "they" would be at the police station or in the car in route to the scene. Either way they are not likely to be right there when something happens. I live in an unincorporated part of the county, and response time is anywhere from 20 - 60 minutes.

"without them" we would need someone else to complete the after-action paperwork and clean up the mess... somebody's got to do it.

Wayne02
08-27-2006, 08:15 PM
Hopefully things will work out ok for you. I had a couple of questions regarding this kind of issue.

1. Does anybody know if the patrol car video also picks up audio of the exchange, or just video?

2. Does anybody know if reciting the alphabet backwards is a typical requirement in DUI screenings like this??? That sounds way out of line to me. I know that is something I cannot do even when I'm stone cold sober.

Millman
08-27-2006, 08:22 PM
{{ By all means talk nicely and clearly- too bad if you're wired from too much work.}} That right there is what is wrong. I was taught to respect the law when I was a child; and I did like I was told. Cops in the 40's and 50's were trained a lot better. They actually cared whether a person lived or died. Things have changed for the worse. Any officer now, looks at life as a video game. He has the look and attitude of a SS officer. They are always right, the citizen is wrong. When in the hell are Americans going to pull themselves away from American Idol, The Apprentice, Monster Garage, NFL, and all the BS you are fed on an hourly basis,; and get A PAIR? These feds have MY name and number and I won't go down without a fight; so, why do they let me exist? Because, I will stick up for every Americans right to free speech and opinions. Put these idiots where they belong. Make them get their hands dirty and touch something that actually matters. HOW to do that??? Don't vote at all. Look at the real people for a change. Do you know there are real people who make things and get dirty...while you are standing in a line to vote for your next pampered fool? Don't forget, you have a choice of only "Two Cute Suits". Is that what you really want? .....Then you are just another sheep to be slaughtered.

A.K. Boomer
08-27-2006, 09:19 PM
Hopefully things will work out ok for you. I had a couple of questions regarding this kind of issue.

1. Does anybody know if the patrol car video also picks up audio of the exchange, or just video?

2. Does anybody know if reciting the alphabet backwards is a typical requirement in DUI screenings like this??? That sounds way out of line to me. I know that is something I cannot do even when I'm stone cold sober.


I actually think that this is why they do that, to get the responce you just stated "that is something I cannot do even when I'm stone cold sober" this statement implies that you been drinking and then maybe they try to see your reaction to what you just said, if you catch it or not or if you try to backpedal or tongue tie yourself or get overly frustrated. this has been rumored to have been one of the tests in my neck of the woods and maybe even happend to me --- I just cant remember...

johnhurd
08-27-2006, 09:38 PM
They are your employees :confused:

Carld
08-27-2006, 09:43 PM
mnadeja, I was going to ask if you knew some of the people in power. Since you do and a long time officer said to pursue it I would get a lawyer you know and trust and get all you can. It sounds like they want to get rid of him. I would ask around to find out about his past troubles. The lawyer may know or find out for you. If you live in a small town like I do almost everyone knows almost everything about almost everybody.

johnhurd
08-27-2006, 09:48 PM
{{ HOW to do that??? Don't vote at all.

What we really need is the [] None of the Above

keep bugging your Reps for the privilege, worlds better than holding your nose and voting for the least offensive.

J Tiers
08-27-2006, 09:49 PM
.
"DUI" has zero to do with being drunk. ZERO.

"DUI" is for everything EXCEPT "DWI".

It includes all forms of drugs, and conceivably driving when dead tired.

Therefore, if the test showed zero, that shows you were stoned, etc, not drunk, which is just about as bad from your point of view.

And, since they didn't presumably do a blood drug test, at least they have no evidence for your being stoned. or on 'ludes, etc. If it takes a month, maybe they will.

If you kick up a fuss now, it will probably turn out positive, which will convict you then and there, with the court appearance confirming it. Otherwise it probably will be negative.

mnadeja
08-27-2006, 10:13 PM
J Tiers,
They can take anything that they want for tests, I have never done a single drug in my entire life. I do drink sometimes but do not drive if I do, I see quite a few people get killed by it and I KNow it makes a difference. Saw a guy get put away for 6 years because he was a little drunk and drove a friend home who was hammered, he crashed and they were ejected from the car, and the friend died because he got up and tried to run across the highway, and got hit and killed.
Being in the local fire department I see every accident that happens, there is at least 1 dead a year from DUI (or DWI or whatever you want to call it)

Wayne 02, I don't know if they record audio.
As far as the cops coming after something happens, that is why the .44 Mag is always sitting in the door. By the way the cop never asked and never knew that there was a loaded gun right there the whole time. Yes I have a permit for it and No I would have never done anything like that, but you would think they would have said something or checked. My brother came and drove it home and they never noticed.
I left a message with a lawyer that a friend recommended, who actually called me back on a Sunday, and he has me going first thing in the morning to a place to get tested for any other substances, I guess those are good as far back as 30 days. He said we need as much evidence as we can get so they cannot argue anything, but he says that after I blew the 0 on the breath test, that was it. He said if it was in the car and faulty, then anyone else they have pulled over since last time it was tested will have a problem with that case.
A bunch of lawyer stuff but who knows.
He said not only can he pretty much guarantee to get paid for this job, but also probably missed upcoming work if I lose future work for this company.
He seemed to be good, and said there is absolutely no way they should have taken me. And he wants nothing up front either, except like $100 for filing fees.
So he must be confident.

I hate to be that kind of guy to sue someone, but it really could cost me a lot of work in the future too. Heck I made $40,000 from this company last year alone, that by itself is a pretty good normal income!

Carld
08-27-2006, 10:18 PM
Be sure the company knows what happened so they don't take it out on you by cutting you out of work.

ASparky
08-27-2006, 10:20 PM
The rule is the cop must have "reasonable grounds to suspect" you are incapable of driving the vehicle safely, in order to detain you. The quoted phrase (In the US and some other places the phrase is Must have "Probable Cause") is fairly vague, I doubt that you could argue against it.

The test is usually could "A resonable person arrive at the same conclusion" visa vi that you should be tested. As said above the breathalyser only tests for alchohol.

The false arrest recourse would apply if you had been charged as there is not reasonable evidence to show you did something illegal. It can apply to being detained but to "prove" it you have to show you were detained (arrested) without cause and there is possibly enough in your story to give cause for being taken for blood tests.

There is a few procedural errors in the story and if you can establish a pattern of abuse of power in other related incidents involving the officer you may get some traction. You will only get compensation, after there is a judgement against him (civil law or criminal law), and the illegal part was the cause of your loss. It can be argued that even if done right, you would still have been taken for blood tests, if so no compensation.

I would send in a written complaint, without any legal action, just so it is on the officers record. If a bad apple and not just a bad day at the office, a pattern of these will force his Boss to take action - at a minimum a stern chat.

Jesse168
08-27-2006, 10:23 PM
The best thing you can do other than see a lawyer is to make a complaint to the Police Internal Affair's Dept.

The last thing a police officer wants is internal affairs on their butt.

speedsport
08-27-2006, 10:23 PM
Alcohol is the most abused "drug" available to our society, and the most available. Alcohol is the cause of more deaths, missed work, domestic problems etc. than all the other "drugs" combined. People who say "I don't do drugs but I drink" are in denial. WAKE UP!

J Tiers
08-27-2006, 10:43 PM
Alcohol is the most abused "drug" available to our society, and the most available. Alcohol is the cause of more deaths, missed work, domestic problems etc. than all the other "drugs" combined. People who say "I don't do drugs but I drink" are in denial. WAKE UP!

I do not do drugs, but I do drink sometimes..... and I am not in denial. Bags on your statement above...... big bags.

I drink good tasty beer, or ale, and I drink it with dinner about once in 6 weeks or so.

In denial? Bollocks.

When "alcohol" is used as a drug, it is not drunk with dinner, it is drunk for effect.

speedsport
08-27-2006, 10:46 PM
got something againist water?

Evan
08-27-2006, 10:58 PM
Unfortunately it doesn't, Evan. The officer explained the procedure to my wife while she sat in handcuffs. The officer can work on the "preponderance" of probable cause. Blowing zero reduces the probable cause but does not eliminate the "weaving", "odor" or "failure to recite" factors. Its left up to the officer's discretion.

The officer will not be able to use a "perponderance" of evidence in civil court to explain his action since he was contemplating laying a criminal charge. His probable cause must be sufficient to justify the laying of a charge under criminal law. With the zero reading and the very clear reason for the driving behaviour the probable cause evaporates. I am sure that is why the lawyer is certain that he can prevail.

lcb
08-27-2006, 11:01 PM
Based on prior experience....1. Do not admit guilt, when the officer asks "do you know why I stopped you?" answer respectfully NO. 2. Do NOT lie about anything. 3. Provide all identifaction needed. 4 Do not answer any questions beyond this point, if pressed state that you need to confer with your lawyer 5. Respectfully decline any and all field tests, do not supply any explaination. 6 Exit car only when asked. 7. Do not agree to any search of car. 8. Be very polite. If the officer indicates that they are beleiving that a DUI is incated, request only a blood test at the closest hospital. This will work if you are innocent and may work if you are not. All this assumes that the following ideas are agreeded on as fact....1. All LEO are assholes (some are not, but its hard to tell the difference at first) 2. Their first goal is to get YOU to admit guilt, beware. 3. LEO are lazy and will go for the easiest way generally. 4. If you follow this concept the LEO will yell, scream, and generally try everything possible to intaidate you, including lies, they are NOT required to tell you the truth. 5. Be prepared to spend the next 4-5 hrs sitting on the side of the road, considering the cost of a DUI conviction this is CHEAP.. it can cost upwards of $20,000 even if if you are innocent. I am not a lawyer and will not and can not be responsible for anyone following this advise, only my personal opinions. If you have been drinking, do us all a favor and pay whatever fines, restrictions, etc are involved, we do not need you on the road. The sober ones are bad enough.

Tinkerer
08-27-2006, 11:13 PM
The civil court judge will rule in favor on the defendants attorneys motions to dismiss on the ground a Immunity from Prosecution. The only way they'll be held responsible is if your CIVIL RIGHTS have been violated and that is after a long and expensive trail and apparels process... and you still may not prevail. Yes I know how things a suppose to work... but this is how thing really are. It's a class structure of (us) tax slaves and (them) tax leaches.

Evan
08-27-2006, 11:13 PM
In BC refusing to blow is the same as blowing over the limit. It is treated the same in court.


he civil court judge will rule in favor on the defendants attorneys motions to dismiss on the ground a Immunity from Prosecution.
Police officers do not enjoy immunity from prosecution and in particular are not immune from civil suits. Didn't you read the info I supplied earlier? A civil case is not a prosecution.

Tinkerer
08-27-2006, 11:24 PM
Yes Even I did but I'm going off real world small town everyones related experience. Bubba looks out for BillyBob.

J Tiers
08-28-2006, 12:00 AM
got something againist water?

Yes. It does not taste as good as some other things with dinner. At least beer was made with filtered water and no chlorine, chloramines, etc, etc..

The only thing I have against beer and ale is that I can't drink more than a pint or so. I don't like the effect of alcohol, I don't like being drunk, but I do like the taste of good beer.

I do NOT like the bad taste of the O'Doul's etc.... may as well drink water.

If I wanted to be a wahabi, I would be one. I don't, you are free to be one if you wish.

Evan
08-28-2006, 12:09 AM
es Even I did but I'm going off real world small town everyones related experience. Bubba looks out for BillyBob.

I live in a small town as well but that sort of problem doesn't come up much in Canada. We have a national police force, the RCMP. In most of Canada they are responsible for policing everything from federal offences to picking up drunks off the street. If a cop gets out of line he is likely to find himself posted to Inuvik or Tuktoyaktuk or some other equally pleasant summer vacation spot.

Also, judges here are all appointed, not elected. The judiciary is entirely apolitical, and that is really the case in practice.

EDMTech
08-28-2006, 02:12 AM
As I understand it, the backwards alphabet question is a trick question to get someone to say "Man, I couldn't do that if I was sober!"

Your first question? I believe most do now.


Hopefully things will work out ok for you. I had a couple of questions regarding this kind of issue.

1. Does anybody know if the patrol car video also picks up audio of the exchange, or just video?

2. Does anybody know if reciting the alphabet backwards is a typical requirement in DUI screenings like this??? That sounds way out of line to me. I know that is something I cannot do even when I'm stone cold sober.

A.K. Boomer
08-28-2006, 04:02 AM
I actually think that this is why they do that, to get the responce you just stated "that is something I cannot do even when I'm stone cold sober" this statement implies that you been drinking and then maybe they try to see your reaction to what you just said, if you catch it or not or if you try to backpedal or tongue tie yourself or get overly frustrated. this has been rumored to have been one of the tests in my neck of the woods and maybe even happend to me --- I just cant remember...




EDMTech,,, you have a great mind, (either that or were both really stupid--- lets go with the first chioce)

malbenbut
08-28-2006, 06:43 AM
I have never been to the USA but reading your letters it would seem to me you are living in a police state where the police have to much power are a law unto theirselves.
I have never seen anyone in the UK handcuffed for anything except for violent
or threatening behavior. I believe that guns are freely available in the USA but in the UK they are banned and the possession of a handgun is a criminal offence maybe that is why the police seem to handcuff everyone over there for fear of being shot at.Also the relationship between judges and police in thre USA may be to close. The same closeness was prevelent in Nasi Germany look what the people over there suffered.
MBB

J Tiers
08-28-2006, 08:45 AM
Small towns are one thing, large another.

Small towns, everyone knows each other, and so the relation IS close (may be family close).

Cities, judge doesn't know the cop, may consider all cops right, or every one totally wrong, just depends. Some have a bee in their bonnet about drunks, some have BEEN drunk drivers and are easier.

The police see it all, and when they see YOU, you are assumed to be just like the wife-beating drug dealing shooter they had last week.

Small blame to them if they treat you like all the other criminals.... Police KNOW if most of the folks they see regularly "done it" or not. Then they see the judges let them off. You get the results.

And, of course, whenever there is an organization of people, police department, FBI, Congress, City government, whatever, there is corruption. Corruption means that some people get soaked for things they didn't do, because the local powers don't like them.

johnhurd
08-28-2006, 08:57 AM
I have never seen anyone in the UK handcuffed for anything except for violent
or threatening behavior.
MBB

Is this the same UK that is considering banning sharp knives? When we have had enough, we still have the meansto correct the problem.

malbenbut
08-28-2006, 10:00 AM
Is this the same UK that is considering banning sharp knives?----------

The UK plans to prohibit the carrying of knives in public places without good reason there has been a ban for a number of years on knives with a blade length over 4.5 inches. The punishment will be much greater than in the past. They are not banning the ownership of large knives. The crime capital in the UK for knife crime is Glasgow
MBB

johnhurd
08-28-2006, 10:19 AM
BBC News | UK | Handgun crime 'up' despite ban (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm)It also said there was no link between high levels of gun crime and areas where ... "Even strict laws are not preventing a rise in gun crime in the UK" ...

malbenbut
08-28-2006, 11:04 AM
Is this the same UK mentioned here -------------
The artical u quote is dated July 2001 over 5 years old
MBB

AZSORT
08-28-2006, 11:25 AM
The problem is we've all given up our natural liberties (you know - liberty to travel) in return for a privelage to operate a motor vehicle in interstate commerce and trade. Now when the police powers screw you over, about all you can do is say yasur boss. Of course you do like the benefits though - limited liability insurance, signs all over the place informing you how to drive, and law-enforcement to remove potential threats (drunk drivers). So shut up and be a good serf.

TECHSHOP
08-29-2006, 12:58 AM
Sorry to bring this up late to the party. I have lost my dance card, so I don't know who specifically sparked my replies, in no specific order.

1) When you have any dealings with the police, you need a lawyer.

2) Police act on the "reasonable belief" that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be commited. And have a "reasonable belief" that you are the person involved in one of those three things, and don't care to see you again until the trial after your "processing".

3) Don't write letters, emails, make phone calls to the police, see first point.

4) The "drunk driving" laws are state by state. What is legal, on both sides, varies greatly.

5) Police "standard operating procedures" are shaped by the court cases, civil and criminal, that are won or lost. They are "reacting" to the "whims" of judges, lawyers, and the laws created by our elected "rulers".

6) Freedom, "Pursuit of Happiness", etc. are deeply imbeded in the "American" view of the world, "life style", etc. Nothing is given up willing to the "government" by the citizens.

7) When you have ANY dealings with the police, you need a lawyer.

I think I typed everything I was trying to remember, this is a long OT thread for such a simple mind to keep track of this late in the game.

johnhurd
08-29-2006, 11:45 AM
Is this the same UK mentioned here -------------
The artical u quote is dated July 2001 over 5 years old
MBB

How big is Croydon???? Looks like you have it under control at least here if the women choose to they can protect themselves, in Croydon they just lay back and enjoy it.
8-18-06

The number of robberies in Croydon rose by 342 to 1,890 in the last year with offences against people, including mobile phone theft, up by 278.
The number of businesses being robbed also hit triple figures, rising from 85 to 149.
Over the same period burglaries at both homes and businesses increased by 185 and the number of reported rapes rose from 94 in a year to 109.
The past 12 months have seen the same number of homicides but racist, homophobic and gun-related crime were all down on the previous year.



The fact of the matter is Society has to become less PC and end the ability of the criminal to do wrong. Holding up productive citizens from contributing to the GNP is not going to solve the crime problem.

madman
08-29-2006, 12:18 PM
I could tell you stories bout the crooked cops in our area. There used to be T Shirts around here that were printed Welcome to kitchener Waterloo Home Of Police Brutality. I have witnessed my friend layed over the trunk of a police car with 4 cops punching him in the kidneys. Hm. I have been assaulted verbally by cops and told who are they gonna believe in court you or me bull****. I think that power corrupts and whomever wants to be a cop is seriously ****ed up mentally,. Power tripping. They and not all but most are very nice people but not too bright. Hows that for being polite, but honest. I got not much use for them at all. I believe in every man for himself two big rotweillers and my pistol and shotgun nearby. Societys gettin ****tier and our politicians are definately the ****tiest also. I think they should ban all lawyers from ever being allowed to become politicians and get honest hard working stiffs in there that arent crooked pieces of **** and want to make things better. Nuff said Madman Hows that for ventin.

JS
08-29-2006, 08:18 PM
Use a common law default method of getting the SOB . You could ruin his life for about 99 years give or take depending on how long til the lein is paid off.

not legal advice just an idea

bob_s
08-29-2006, 10:41 PM
Also, judges here are all appointed, not elected. The judiciary is entirely apolitical, and that is really the case in practice.


What universe are you in? They are all POLITICAL appointees, look at the Supreme Court - all LACKEYS of that f***tard Cretien!

JRouche
08-30-2006, 12:17 AM
Was not gonna enter this political thread but,,,,hey why not :)

I'm a cop, been one for 16 or so years.

Really pains me to read and hear about so much actual hatred for law enforcement.

Maybe somewhat because the police are only around when it is a negative situation. Whether it is because they are at your door because you broke the law or because you are a victim of another person breaking the law....

No doubt there are peace officers who are really poor at their job. Just as there are folks in every profession who are inept. Problem is when it is law enforcement its not just the greedy machinist rippin you off. With law enforcement there can be civil liberties taken advantage of. One is criminal, the other is just stupidity.

But any way, my major problem with threads such as these is reading the post from people who want to say "they" or "all" or similar statements declaring what they have to say is factual across the board. IDIOTS

Anytime you think you can make complete generalizations about any group of folks you shine brightly, in public, that you are ignorant and uninformed.

The informed and educated understand there will be a large variety of personalities within a GROUP of people. This is why we cannot say all white people do this, or all black people act like this or all Asian folks will be like this.

Anyway, that's my pet peeve, generalizations concerning people, not a good attitude.

Now, as for the detention, arrest and pulling of blood for a DUI....Hmm, sounds like a bad night...

Just because the preliminary alcohol test unit failed to detect any alcohol does not mean there was not any. Electronic devices will fail.

"driving too slow and swerving." (cops words) is enough for a lawful detention...

"he said I stink like alcohol and get out of the truck. That was it. I probably stunk like sweat or cutting oil, but not alcohol."

With the driving and odor there is enough to lawfully get you outta your truck.

"He made me walk the stupid line on the side of the road,"

Stupid line? What makes the line stupid, its just a line? Or, are you saying you dont like the "walk the line" tool to detect a DUI driver?

"it was completely dark and I walked straight but missed the line a little he said. I could barely even see it, the road isnt very clean."

He should have lit the area up for you. If you felt it was too dirty or rocky he should have moved to a better location. I have driven a quarter mile or more to a smooth, clean, well lit parking lot just to rule this out.

"Anyway then told me to say the alphabet backwards"

Our dept. does not conduct that very difficult test (I couldnt do it sober or drunk)

"Then it looked like I robbed a bank, about 3 more showed up over the next 5 minutes but just hung out in their cars pretty much."

Slow night, must be a safe town. I work in a busy part of L.A., we dont hang out watching a DUI stop...

"They gave me a breathalyzer and It came up as absolutely NOTHING."

Was this in the street or back at the station. You should have been given the opportunity to go to the station and give breath, blood or urine...

"and then dropped me off at home after they took me for blood."

Huhh? Poor practice. If you suspect someone of driving under the influence you (we) dry them out first before cutting them loose. Liability issues here, fairly evident...

"I always thought they towed your vehicle but it was not the case,"

Only if it is illegally parked. Kinda catch 22. You are getting stopped. You are required to pull to the side of the road. If it happens to be on the freeway or another no stopping zone you get towed. I dont agree with this practice.

"The blood test results will take about 2 months to get back"

Nother slow town issue, same night results here.

"I HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DRINK!!!!!!!!"

That sucks, I am sorry you got seriously inconvenienced, really. I woulda been livid and prolly caught another charge due to my violent activity...

"This is all on camera from the police cars,"

File a complaint with the station to start the paper trail...JRouche

malbenbut
08-30-2006, 04:04 AM
How big is Croydon????
Croydon is a part of London population 12 million
MBB

Greg Menke
08-30-2006, 09:23 AM
File a complaint with the station to start the paper trail...JRouche

But absolutely definitely get a lawyer to help you file it and start the lawsuit and keep kicking the whale down the beach else it will likely be ignored, "lost" or just shunted into the "get to it someday file" thats thrown in the trash when the part-time clerk who handles that sort of thing changes jobs. You will have to be a big PITA to the police department- and be ready for the possibility of retaliation against you and your family.

Greg

name
08-31-2006, 03:57 AM
I hate to be that kind of guy to sue someone, but it really could cost me a lot of work in the future too. Heck I made $40,000 from this company last year alone, that by itself is a pretty good normal income!

Be the kind of guy to sue someone. If you don't think you can do this for yourself, think of the next guy in your shoes who gets harrased by this cop! Could be your wife or son even.

Evan
08-31-2006, 11:55 AM
What universe are you in? They are all POLITICAL appointees, look at the Supreme Court - all LACKEYS of that f***tard Cretien!

That has little to do with the average joe going to court. It's the local judge behind the bench he has to deal with. They are not political appointees and the law he is facing will generally be statute law. That judge will not be the favorite son of some wealthy local citizen who boosted him into office through a well funded election campaign.

Your Old Dog
08-31-2006, 12:47 PM
Sorry for your headaches. I'd make out a complaint with the Police Department if for no other reason than to get on the record officially.

If the folks you were doing the work for realize you were late it could cost you considerable money. Having made an official complaint against this officer could impact favorably any problems that might develop later with the folks you were working for unless they are just flat out pricks. Getting this on the record may also make the community liable incase you end up loosing serious money/reputation because of these poor judgement by the officer.

Get this incident on the record sooner rather than later.

ray..................

Optics Curmudgeon
09-01-2006, 05:28 PM
I got stopped leaving a restaurant parking lot a few years ago. I had dropped off a co-worker at about 11 PM after working late, I had'nt even gotten out of the car, never mind had a drink. As soon as I pulled out onto the street I was pulled over, the usual questions about whether I had been drinking. Once I had explained the situation and it was clear they had made a mistake they switched into damage control mode and started looking for something to make it worth their while. They looked over the car, checked my paperwork up and down, finally, one cop leaned into the car window with his flashlight and started looking around. At this point I'd had enough, and pointed out that he was now inside my car without my permission to search, I guess that was what he was hoping for as he got right annoyed and asked what I might be hiding. My anger at being delayed for nothing, I replied, and told him he was free to search all he wanted if a shift supervisor was present, otherwise I wanted to leave. The two cops conferred and called the supervisor, who chewed them out for bothering me "while real DUI's were driving by" in his words. He apologized for them and sent me off, at a mere cost to me of about an hour.

Evan
09-01-2006, 06:12 PM
I really get my back up in those sort of situations. One day while driving to the next town 75 miles away on the job I was being tailgated and passed by an unusual number of idiots and by the time I got to Quesnel I was really steamed. I cruised through a school zone about 4mph over the limit and got pulled over. When the cop came to the window I asked what the problem was and he of course informed me.

I lit into him and tore a strip off him on both sides asking just where the freekin &*%&*^^ he was when I was driving on the highway and all the &**&^ idiots were endangering me and all the reasonable drivers on the road.

He took about three steps back and pulled out his ticket pad and wrote me up. He forgot to date it or sign it so I ignored it.

If you get pulled over and harrassed for no good reason just ask if you are arrested and for what. If they say no then inform them you are leaving and do so (after having identified yourself). If they say yes it commits them which they won't be anxious to do unless they really have a case. Too much explaining and paperwork to do and there is then the clear possibility of a suit.

darryl
09-04-2006, 12:19 AM
Just wondering if there's more to this story- did you get paid or have to eat this one?

A.K. Boomer
09-04-2006, 01:04 PM
Is this really the place for Alleged drunk driver discussion?
Good luck though.



i would like to take a time out to remind everybody that UBjackel has brought up a very valid point here, and dispite the over 5,000 views and 84 reply's we cannot continue to slap this kind of logic directly in the face like we are...:rolleyes:

Millman
09-04-2006, 01:15 PM
Until everyone makes these crazy pullovers PUBLIC....nothing will ever change. Tell everyone you know, post the cops name and number everywhere. That's the only way they will be controlled...and they NEED controlled. Don't forget your tax dollars pay their wages. They all work for me.

Dawai
09-05-2006, 10:54 PM
Evidently you just don't understand how the world works yet.

YOU, were carrying obviously a money maker in your truck. If you had greased the proper blue palm in the first place you would have been not detained, once other blue suited mafia members showed up the money would have had to increase, or worse yet one arriving cop would have been honest and you would have had to be taken to jail to justify thier actions.

The way the world works, Building inspectors draw more money in bribes than they do pay.. WHY else would a person want a 24k a year job with all thier education? Why do you think most people want into politics? Them jobs don't pay squat.

Our country needs help, perhaps when the Chinese or Muslims take it over we can have some reform. At least all our HF machine tools will have the proper manual for them to read if it is the Chinese.

torker
09-05-2006, 11:35 PM
IBEW...yer back!
Place just isn't the same without you...
Russ

TECHSHOP
09-06-2006, 12:04 AM
DEC:

Haven't seen you here for a while, (been tracking on and off at the other site). Alot has happened, so condolence where it is due and congrates where they are due. Was down your way, crossed Tenn E-W to Arky and back, waved south as I took the turn, running a mostly empty truck both ways, missed opertunities, again. Don't be such a stranger.

EDMTech
09-06-2006, 12:49 AM
EDMTech,,, you have a great mind, (either that or were both really stupid--- lets go with the first chioce)

Heh, I didn't even see that someone already replied with that :)

YankeeMetallic
09-06-2006, 02:36 PM
Evidently you just don't understand how the world works yet.
....If you had greased the proper blue palm in the first place you would have been not detained, once other blue suited mafia members showed up the money would have had to increase

Slow down Mr. Cofer. That is quite a serious accusation. I have been quiet for the first 9 pages of this, but bribery in law enforcement is almost non-existent in the 21st century. "Blue suited mafia"? Give it a break!
I'll agree that the beginning post pointed out an obviously young officer that needs to be slapped with a citizens complaint at least, plus a performance improvement plan, probation, written reprimand, etc.. But if everybody just stands around in a circle jerk using the generalization of "They", or "COPS in general", instead of singling out the overzealous officers, pretty soon it becomes "fact" that every officer is a boot strapping thug that is beating you for no reason, stealing the money from your pockets, or planting dope on you to frame you for no reason. What should we do? Fire them and let the gangsta's and crack heads run the country? I don't think a crackhead would go out of their way to find your 5 year old neice that was kidnapped and taken over state lines by a pedophile that knows how to evade the system.
I am not saying that there aren't rotten COPS out there. I'm saying there are not as many rotten COPS as fuchen'* Hollywood projects in movies. With the freedom of todays Grand Juries to hand out colonoscopies, and the media, corrupt COPS surface pretty quick.
Okay...now the hyenas in this group can attack me. I've defended against worst.
*Edited 'casue the board wouldn't let me cuss

IOWOLF
09-06-2006, 08:28 PM
David, I hope you are back for a while.

I missed you, and your unique outlook on life. ;)

IOWOLF
09-06-2006, 08:34 PM
And A K Bummer,You haven't been around long enough but another board went to some ungodly number of posts over a divining rod. So You don't know what you are talking about,as usual.

Dawai
09-06-2006, 08:35 PM
<quote>Two former Chattanooga police officers will serve time in federal prison.
http://wrcbtv.com/news/index.cfm?sid=1850
Two former Chattanooga police officers will serve time in federal prison. Frank Goodwyn and O'Dell Draper pleaded in March to taking money from Hispanics while they were on patrol. Both appeared in Federal Court today for sentencing. Each will serve 18 months in prison and have 3 years supervised probation. Draper and Goodwyn also face state charges. They are scheduled to appear in Hamilton County court later this month.

<end quote> Source Chattanooga Television station.. this is just one of hundreds of local incidents. NOTICE, honest people caught these two.
<quote> http://emergencybackupdog.blogspot.com/2005/06/bad-local-governmentwhitfield-county.html
I know from experience how corrupt and oppressive local government can be, because I grew up in Whitfield County, Georgia. Whitfield County is a lovely place, and relatively prosperous, but it is blighted with an evil and corrupt Sheriff's Department, currently headed by Scott Chitwood. The WCSD has almost always been staffed by men whose laziness and cowardice are matched only by their stupidity and maliciousness. The Drug War has led the WCSD to become involved at times in the drug trade and to provide protection for drug dealers. And even when it is not itself engaged in drug commerce, the Drug War provides the WCSD with a convenient excuse to brutalize, murder and harass the denizens of Whitfield County with impunity.
<end quote>


Perhaps you should watch the news more? Or get your head out of the sand, or the clouds. I have existed in the real world for quite some time.

Do you know where chicken nuggets come from? Lots of young people don't have a clue how to get them out of the chicken.

Let's talk about the "calibration knob" on the alcohol breathalizer they had in Catoosa county Ga. under the desk. the police would turn the knob to increase the readout. NO DUI's were recalled and overturned.. Corruption to the top. That spot has been known to be a speedtrap since I was quite small. If you remember they had Trans-ams as police cars there for a while. Most the engines in them cars came from stolen autos from a shady guy I know slightly. JD Stewart was the sherriff then there.

There are honest policemen, I know two. perhaps someday I can say three.

I got stopped for speeding once here in the county, I had to tell the polceman who booked me (*yeah over a hundred and I was arrested). how much money I had in my wallet.. he lost a couple hundred till I found it for him.. He wrote me seven tickets total. I figure in punishment for the money.

I got a bad outlook on police because of what I have seen locally, I don't have a cheery outlook on debating crooked cops.

Perhaps in your town things are different. On that same station, look up the crooked cop who raped probably sixty women locally.

Sometimes you gotta hit a nail with a hammer. If there was no honest policemen at all, they'd never get caught.

Dawai
09-06-2006, 09:17 PM
And I have saw divining rods in operation.

This is probably not the place to knock America or policemen.. If you want to continue the discussion email me. I won't be convinced the world is rosy easily thou.

I love my country. It does need a enema. When I see more junkies walking up the road than police cars.. Well we need some kinda clean-up force, the police ain't doing it.

Perhaps I should volunteer at the police station? If you don't like the ways things are, you should change them.

Remember Ross peroe? Or David Duke? both brought about changes in our politics.. Even thou I don't agree with either, both were idealists.

Millman
09-06-2006, 09:47 PM
And I have saw divining rods in operation.

This is probably not the place to knock America or policemen.. If you want to continue the discussion email me. I won't be convinced the world is rosy easily thou.

I love my country. It does need a enema. When I see more junkies walking up the road than police cars.. Well we need some kinda clean-up force, the police ain't doing it.

Perhaps I should volunteer at the police station? If you don't like the ways things are, you should change them.

Remember Ross peroe? Or David Duke? both brought about changes in our politics.. Even thou I don't agree with either, both were idealists.
Looks like we still have the same outlook on life and politics!

Mcgyver
09-06-2006, 10:48 PM
That has little to do with the average joe going to court. It's the local judge behind the bench he has to deal with. They are not political appointees and the law he is facing will generally be statute law. That judge will not be the favorite son of some wealthy local citizen who boosted him into office through a well funded election campaign.

disagree with you there Evan, yes I agree they are generally not overtly crooked, but not political? no way no how. they are political animals more interested in affecting policy than putting the bad guys away and setting the innocent free. In Canada the judiciary and the power base they have are one of our biggest problems imo, not elected and not questioned and castrated politicians who have somehow twisted exercising the notwithstanding clause into a bad thing. makes me sick

IOWOLF
09-07-2006, 06:59 AM
David,I NEVER said I don't believe in them,I was making a point that an argument can go on forever.

Millman
09-07-2006, 09:46 AM
{{they are political animals}} When are the new hunting laws coming out?? Aw, to hell with the hunting laws. A man's gotta' eat, right?

A.K. Boomer
09-07-2006, 12:39 PM
And A K Bummer,You haven't been around long enough but another board went to some ungodly number of posts over a divining rod. So You don't know what you are talking about,as usual.


And like you stated before UBjackel, everyone is entitled to thier opinion, and if people have different opinions then let them discuss them, there is much to be learned from views that apear to be 180 degree's apart, and if the posts continue then that means they feel strongly about it, thats when things get really good, No offence but i think i see a pattern with you, when things get involved and complicated you want out, its uncomfortable for you, but remember, thats only my opinion on how i view yours, its all good and it all comes out in the wash...


I had a very interesting experiance with divining rods 25+ years ago and might check into the archives to dig up that old post youv been drooling over.

IOWOLF
09-07-2006, 01:45 PM
Yes please, look it up it is somewhere in the archives.

Getting out now,I am uncomfortable I need to wash.

Carl
09-08-2006, 05:02 PM
...a couple of years ago, a small town down the hill from me had the county sheriff's office take over law enforcement from the town's police department. Seems the entire force, from the chief on down was indicted for extorting protection money under threat of violence from the local citizens and business owners.

Evan
09-08-2006, 05:40 PM
Even the RCMP here are not immune. It was just announced that a constable in a town north of here will not be charged with anything. He had picked up a local young man for having an open beer in public after a hockey game. He was taken to the station. While at the station something happened and the young man ended up dead with a bullet in the back of the head. No witnesses and no injuries on the police officer. No case.

deltaenterprizes
09-08-2006, 08:00 PM
Contact Internal Affairs Divisionand file a formal complaint.This will initiate a formal investigation and go on his personnel file permanently.Also contact an attorney to see if your civil rights may have been violated.