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thistle
09-18-2006, 01:07 PM
Saw this on ebay-hmmmmmmmm
That has to be the best name for a machine tool ever.
I like the welded on chuck.



http://cgi.ebay.com/TIT-HEAVY-DUTY-13-MULTI-SPEED-DRILL-PRESS-1-PHASE_W0QQitemZ130026970874QQihZ003QQcategoryZ1042 36QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Evan
09-18-2006, 01:16 PM
The attorney I used to use for conveyancing etc was named Crook. I figured with a name like that he had to be honest.

JCHannum
09-18-2006, 01:53 PM
Welded on chuck and welded on handles. It is a Reliable sale, so it will probably top out around $250.00.

CCWKen
09-18-2006, 03:19 PM
Taiwan Industrial Tools. Wow! What a bargin. :rolleyes:

I'll stick to using my cock wrench. :D

ERBenoit
09-18-2006, 03:57 PM
Welded on chuck and welded on handles.

Must have run out of Loc-Tite.

Willy
09-18-2006, 04:02 PM
Isn't that slot in the spindle for laying a bead on the arbor?

dicks42000
09-18-2006, 04:05 PM
OK, I have to admit that I like the name too.....But the "welding" blobs & the holes in the table ?....Why even take pictures of them, let alone close-ups. Interesting marketing strategy, I guess.

Evan
09-18-2006, 04:23 PM
It's an old and nearly forgotten concept. It's called "truth in advertising".

ERBenoit
09-18-2006, 05:32 PM
Interesting marketing strategy.

The strategy here is to eliminate "sniping". ( If that is the correct terminology of how to secure a sale)

I don't do the ebay thing, and if I did, I sure wouldn't try to out bid anyone for this fine quality workmanship.

JCHannum
09-18-2006, 05:33 PM
Reliable Tools probably runs a production line to process their eBay sales. Clean the machine, put it in front of the drop curtain, take 6 or 8 photos, write a non revealing statement and put it to press.

The photo taker doesn't always seem to have the least idea of what he is doing, and it often doesn't matter. A couple of guys that know less will get into a bidding war and the price will go off the scale.

It will be interesting to see where this ends up. It is worth a maximum of $25.00 in the shape it is in. With the chuck welded on like that, runout is measured in degrees, not TIR.

rantbot
09-18-2006, 10:49 PM
To be fair, Reliable never puts much in the writeup, but has load of good photos so the prospective buyer can see for himself. That's more informative than the usual eBay declarations about "great condition!" and such rubbish. Talk is cheap. I'd rather have the photos.

In this case, the photos clearly say "avoid".

That is a good name, though. Names do make a difference. I've always felt a bit sorry for any company selling bearings from Fischer Aktien-Gesellschaft, or the FAG group. Decent enough bearings, but spec'ing them is just not worth the razzing you get from the guys in purchasing, who seem to lead very dull lives and have to get their jollies where they can.

thistle
09-19-2006, 07:35 AM
musta made the scotchbrite departments day.
"what did I do today? I scotchbrited a tit"

Frank Ford
09-19-2006, 11:38 AM
My personal favorite was the head fred at Rheem Manufacturing:

"A. Lightfoot Walker"

Takes a bunch of self confidence to walk around in big business with moniker like that when you could just as easily be Albert (or whatever) Walker. . .

TGTool
09-19-2006, 10:08 PM
As if life isn't hard enough already.

I had a friend whose mother went to school with a boy whose family name was Bottom. Parents didn't even name him Harold. His given name was Harry. Poor kid went through school as Fuzzbut(t).

Makes you think there oughtta be a law ...

JPR
09-19-2006, 11:00 PM
deleted.........

motomoron
09-19-2006, 11:45 PM
So, regarding that welded on chuck...

I'll assume it's something like a JT33 taper where the chuck meets the arbor. If that's a tapered fit and it's clean and installed properly, and there's proper fit and contact (and of course it should loosen in use) how does the bit of weld induce runout?

Just wondering.

Millman
09-20-2006, 12:02 AM
Trainees,... where would we be without them?

b2u44
09-20-2006, 02:24 AM
Moto--

If the taper was installed properly, the chuck shouldn't have any trouble staying on the spindle. My first thought is that something is wrong with the taper which is why the chuck got welded on.

That said and assuming that the taper is proper and in good condition... welding (especially if you don't know what you're doing) can result in some major warping. From the appearance of those welds, the person was far from a master, so there will almost certainly be some warpage.

--Ben

motomoron
09-20-2006, 11:38 PM
So, if a chuck is pressed onto an inch-plus long taper, and it's a tight fit, and the chuck body is like 2" in diameter, and you run a 1/4" Mig bead at the juncture you'll get major runout?

I'm afraid I must question this logic.

This mounting arrangement is specifically designed for rigidity in multiple planes. Sure, the bead will induce tension; I've removed bearing races by running a bead 'round the inside, I'm aware of the forces at play, but still the runout could only come from causing the arbor itself to "bend" not from the inducement of motion of the chuck relative to the arbor. I'm interested enough to maybe throw a bead on a cheap Chinese chunk n' arbor I've got in the shop, in the name of science.

Evan
09-21-2006, 01:17 AM
And the drill press goes to: You guessed it.

smonros (http://myworld.ebay.com/smonros)

Sure does like to buy a lot of stuff from Reliable.

J Tiers
09-21-2006, 08:12 AM
I had one just like that, without the weld bead. Not a TIT, but some other brand, same exact machine.

At $20, considerably overpriced.

Mine was a little better at putting in a perpendicular tool that a prtable drill motor. Not a lot better, but some.

As for the runout, why worry about the weld? The machine has far more than the weld could ever do already. Mine did.

Oh, yeah, mine had a loose morse taper...... I used loctite. The JT33 taper was fine.

it's out in the garage now, for poking holes in wood when and if needed.... not even worth selling.

alanganes
09-21-2006, 05:51 PM
I did not find this, someone who I don't recall pointed this one out some time ago. I'm not sure if it was on this board or not, but this has to be the one of the worst names for a machine tool ever:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/balding/index.html

JPR
09-22-2006, 01:35 AM
So, if a chuck is pressed onto an inch-plus long taper, and it's a tight fit, and the chuck body is like 2" in diameter, and you run a 1/4" Mig bead at the juncture you'll get major runout?

I'm afraid I must question this logic.

This mounting arrangement is specifically designed for rigidity in multiple planes. Sure, the bead will induce tension; I've removed bearing races by running a bead 'round the inside, I'm aware of the forces at play, but still the runout could only come from causing the arbor itself to "bend" not from the inducement of motion of the chuck relative to the arbor. I'm interested enough to maybe throw a bead on a cheap Chinese chunk n' arbor I've got in the shop, in the name of science.

Yes, the runout would be from the arbor warping at the point of the weld. An easy example is to take a piece of 1/2" or 3/4" round bar a foot long and weld all the way around it at the 6" point. Then check the bar for straightness. This is would be similar to a 5" long drill bit placed into the chuck after welding it to the arbor.

Willy
09-22-2006, 02:08 AM
Yes, the runout would be from the arbor warping at the point of the weld. An easy example is to take a piece of 1/2" or 3/4" round bar a foot long and weld all the way around it at the 6" point. Then check the bar for straightness. This is would be similar to a 5" long drill bit placed into the chuck after welding it to the arbor.

And I'll bet it would be even worse if it was welded only half or a quarter of it's circumference.

john hobdeclipe
09-22-2006, 07:54 AM
And the drill press goes to: You guessed it.

smonros (http://myworld.ebay.com/smonros)

Sure does like to buy a lot of stuff from Reliable.

smonros does indeed have a fascinating, if not downright suspicious, history of transactions, doesn't he/she/it?

Evan
09-22-2006, 09:15 AM
Also interesting is that that particular user name isn't used anywhere else with the exception of a very few hits on a couple of other sites that are now dead links. It only shows up on eBay. That is very uncommon.

It also bugs me that it is nearly an anagram for morons, perhaps s(tupid) morons.

ep-98-z
09-22-2006, 09:21 AM
smonros does indeed have a fascinating, if not downright suspicious, history of transactions, doesn't he/she/it?

Suspicious to say the least!
A member since Feb '06 with close to 2,000 transactions as a buyer with, I'm guessing 98% of those being Reliable.:confused:

What is the scam here?

Regards,
John

JCHannum
09-22-2006, 09:52 AM
It is not a user name, it is an eBay ID. It is not at all uncommon for them to be different than the user name or e-mail name.

It is quite possibly someone filling a shipping container. You will encounter these guys at industrial auctions sometimes. They usually are wearing turbans and buying anything and everything they can with little or no regard as to price, condition or usefulness.

Evan
09-22-2006, 09:59 AM
So what makes it different from a user name? You get to choose it. People have a strong tendency to use the same name at different sites online. Somebody with that much activity on eBay isn't likely to only frequent eBay.

JCHannum
09-22-2006, 10:17 AM
There are no rules or protocols to follow in choosing an eBay ID. Most that I encounter have little or nothing to do with the user's name or e-mail address.

Many choose one that reflects an interest, or something different to provide a layer of insulation from unwanted contacts.

Evan
09-22-2006, 10:40 AM
The point is that smonros exists only on eBay. You, for instance, have used the same user ID on at least three different forums and I several more. Most people tend to use the same name as much as possible to simplify matters. While it isn't evidence of anything it is part of an unusual pattern of behaviour.

Evan
09-22-2006, 10:44 AM
More to the point, if smonros was merely filling a shipping container why would he buy almost exclusively from Reliable? Also, the very few other buys he makes tend to be the sort of thing Reliable would buy.

JCHannum
09-22-2006, 11:05 AM
I use this name on this forum and one other, maybe I used it on another one I forget. I use a totally different ID on eBay and yet another one on other sites I visit. Being of reasonable intelligence, I can handle the challenge.

As far as reasons for using Reliable for one, if he bought 2000 items from 2000 different vendors in 2000 different locations, he would have a lot more trouble filling the container wouldn't he?

For two, very few other eBay sellers will have that many items available at once. As I said, bulk buying such as this is not unusual. You will see it at auctions and large machinery dealers. A person might buy a few key machines, and then blow things out on a bunch of smalls and other items to fill out the shipment.

Lots of used and surplus machinery is going to South America and the mideast. They will use anything they can get. Since the cube of the container has already been paid for, whatever else they can cram into it gets shipped for free.

Evan
09-22-2006, 11:27 AM
As far as reasons for using Reliable for one, if he bought 2000 items from 2000 different vendors in 2000 different locations, he would have a lot more trouble filling the container wouldn't he?

Why yes, he would. Why would he do that though? But, why does he not buy from the other vendors that are similar to Reliable? Reliable isn't the only one.

Also, why would he buy nearly everything from Reliable on eBay? He must be pretty stupid to not make a direct deal outside of eBay if he is going to buy thousands of items per year.

Of course the simpler explanation is that it is some sort of scam. The principle of Occam's Razor is very often correct.

JCHannum
09-22-2006, 11:41 AM
It may or may not be a scam. The PM site frequently proposes this or that as a Reliable scam. Reliable does so much business on eBay that scamming would not be in their best interest, and if this is a scam, it is probably something else.

He has made a few smaller bulk buys from other sellers, but Reliable is the biggest, and easiest to use for this. Why make a deal or not? Beats me, ask them. He is probably only making these buys as container space is available, and may well be making a deal for the next time as we speak. No one says he is smart, he just has a lot of money to spend on used tooling.

As far as the simplest reason, what is wrong with he wants a lot of cheap tools quick?

The encouraging part is if these tools are being used to manufacture MWD's, and the drill press is any indication of their general quality level, we may be safer than we think.

Evan
09-22-2006, 11:50 AM
If you study his buying history it appears that he never bids first and is never the only bidder. I didn't look at all his buys of course but that seems to be the pattern. Also, he usually wins by a very small increment over the highest bid. It looks like a way on many of the auctions to avoid selling an item too cheaply. It reminds me of a lot of second hand dealers I have dealt with that think they are selling new stuff and want ridiculous prices for what they have.

JCHannum
09-22-2006, 12:16 PM
He is simply using a sniping service. He enters the max he wants to pay and lets the auction run it's course. The small increment is the normal eBay bid increment.

If you look at his bid history, it looks like he has bid on almost 30,000 items in the last thirty days, only won 2000 of them. The majority were Reliable, there were several other vendors though.

lazlo
09-23-2006, 11:36 PM
It may or may not be a scam. The PM site frequently proposes this or that as a Reliable scam. Reliable does so much business on eBay that scamming would not be in their best interest.

...Or that Reliable does so much business that Ebay would never dare touch them.

Reliable is just about the only seller on Ebay accused of strange auction behavior here and on PM, and frequently -- there's at least one post a month of a Reliable item that sells for way more than it should.

But most importantly, Reliable is also the only Ebay seller that I've ever seen that has bidders that bid almost exclusively on their auctions. Smonros is not the only one, look at the bid histories of baron97r (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=+baron97r&sort=3&all=1&completed=1&rows=200), 1cableart1 (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=+1cableart1&sort=3&all=1&completed=1&rows=200), rcubica (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=+rcubica&sort=3&all=1&completed=1&rows=200), and especially cvwest (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=+cvwest&sort=3&all=1&completed=1&rows=200).

cvwest was a major bidder up to the last minute on the the Tree Mill that sold for $9350: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=140008030032
and bid the now-famous Hardinge Lathe up to $21,411 (that sold for $25,600): http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=140007475310

If someone could explain why a set of bidders would bid almost exclusively on one Ebay seller, I'd sure like to hear it...


As far as the simplest reason, what is wrong with he wants a lot of cheap tools quick?

If he wanted to buy a lot of tools cheap, he sure as heck isn't going to get it from Reliable! :D

Evan
09-24-2006, 12:06 AM
Smonros is not the only one, look at the bid histories of baron97r (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=+baron97r&sort=3&all=1&completed=1&rows=200), 1cableart1 (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=+1cableart1&sort=3&all=1&completed=1&rows=200), rcubica (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=+rcubica&sort=3&all=1&completed=1&rows=200), and especially cvwest (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=+cvwest&sort=3&all=1&completed=1&rows=200).
And, in another strange but true coincidence, all of those user ID's appear only on eBay and in no other forum, BBS or auction service online as found by Google.

[edit]

On the other hand there are over 5,000,000 hits on "Lazlo" including this one: :D

http://www.thechurchoflazlo.com/

lazlo
09-24-2006, 12:36 AM
On the other hand there are over 5,000,000 hits on "Lazlo" including this one: :D

LOL! You got me there Evan -- I picked my handle from a Punk Rock Band :p

thistle
09-24-2006, 05:04 AM
and here he is again ,probably going to scrape in the drill


http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-BROWN-SHARPE-96-STRAIGHT-EDGE_W0QQitemZ130029667795QQihZ003QQcategoryZ12581 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

JCHannum
09-24-2006, 08:46 AM
If Reliable is scamming, the scam would be shilling, and they would be reselling those same tools over again in a very short time.

Since a very small percentage of sales will result in non-paying bidders and returns, the simplest way to prove these are scams is to show that all of the items are being resold. With the size and volume of Reliable's business, they cannot afford to keep things lying around and the sheer volume of these buyers would preclude that. Absent that proof, if there is a scam, the buyers are doing it.

I don't know what that scam may be, but filling some of the cargotainers on all of those empty ships returning to Pacific rim markets is not an unlikely reason for the purchases. Reliable is located ideally for this. They have an enormous volume of merchandise available at a low price and are located near a major port.

Evan
09-24-2006, 10:03 AM
The scam in many cases appears to be avoiding selling the tool too cheaply. I have no idea what sort of deal Reliable has with eBay for sales comission but you can be sure they don't pay the advertised fees.

J Tiers
09-24-2006, 10:25 AM
The scam in many cases appears to be avoiding selling the tool too cheaply. I have no idea what sort of deal Reliable has with eBay for sales comission but you can be sure they don't pay the advertised fees.

Considering that they have appeared as "endorsers" in several Ebay advertisements, it is even MORE unlikely that they pay what the peons pay. Probably took out their pay in abatements of fees.

JCHannum
09-24-2006, 11:20 AM
How is selling the tool, not selling it too cheaply? Only if the scam is a shill if some sort will that work, and this leaves the tool to be resold. Find me those tools being resold and that will be proof of the shilling or scam. Otherwise, they are going somewhere else, and that is probably offshore.

lazlo
09-24-2006, 12:56 PM
The scam in many cases appears to be avoiding selling the tool too cheaply.

...and...


I don't know what that scam may be, but filling some of the cargotainers on all of those empty ships returning to Pacific rim markets is not an unlikely reason for the purchases. Reliable is located ideally for this. They have an enormous volume of merchandise available at a low price and are located near a major port.

That's what it looks like to me too -- baron97r, 1cableart1, rcubica, cvwest and smonros bid up the item, and if it doesn't hit some pre-determined price, they buy it back, and probably re-sell it on a bulk basis (like a container shipment), where it will never be seen again.

Mebfab (on PM) said he sold an item to Smonros. I'd love to know if it shipped to Pasadena/Monrovia, California (where Reliable is located)...