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garyphansen
11-03-2006, 11:15 AM
I have been asked by my church to draw up preliminary plans for a new church building. (I draw house plans so this is a little out of my line.) After my plans pleases everyone on the board, they will be turned over to a Design-Build Firm. Anyway, can anyone tell me where I can get a hold of the current Michigan Handicap bathroom code? Gary P. Hansen

Evan
11-03-2006, 11:56 AM
And here I thought you were stuck outside the door asking if anybody knew the electronic combination to open it.

SGW
11-03-2006, 12:28 PM
First place I'd try is your local building inspector. He'll need to approve it eventually, anyway.

Mcgyver
11-03-2006, 01:52 PM
I've done like like 5 million sq ft of design build work and first off, I think fixed price design build awarded on a competitive bid is the way to go - but doing your own design kind of defeats some of the main advantages of DB (as opposed to other approachs)

and imo you are best to spec what you want, not provide plans. there are lots of reasons, not the least of which if they are a good firm it's their problem to make sure everything is to code and to produce a design and drawing that will get permitted and have the appropriate architects and engineers stamps. More importantly though is they have the expertise to make the design cost effective. standard procedure is for the client to create a detailed description of what you want in the building/site work etc, and request fixed price turnkey quotes from a few design build firms. you can include creative ideas, facades, sketches, etc, but avoid designing the building. when they come back with a proposal they should include a layout as a starting point.

The work and challenge comes when you are comparing quotes to make sure that everything is included and its apples to apples - you should have a construction expert in your corner for that, ie consulting engineer etc. A dollar spent here will save you $10 on lucrative changes later on - that is truly where the DB firm makes their margins. same person should monitor construction and sign off on payments etc. In all honesty, you won't save money by diy here, there is value in having an expert that has managed the design build and construction process before.

garyphansen
11-03-2006, 05:01 PM
Thanks Mcgyver for your thoughts. Before I knew anything about it the church board asked three Design-Build Firms to work up some prelimary bids on a new church building. Only one firm did any drawing (Uglest church building ever plus there were other problems such as telling the board they could fit close to 800 seating in a 72'x132' multi use room.) and the prices came back all over the board. That is why they have asked me to work on a preliminary plan. They want to turn the preliminary plans over to the same three firms so they will be bidding apples for apples. I am not charging for my work and will not be crossing every T and dotting and I on the drawings. I just want to make sure that my preliminary preliminary can be worked into a set of working drawings. Gary P. Hansen

Mcostello
11-03-2006, 10:19 PM
And here I was waiting for a bash Michigan joke from a Buckeye!

CCWKen
11-03-2006, 10:38 PM
And here I was waiting for a bash Michigan joke from a Buckeye!

No need. The Longhorns will take care of that. :D

The eyes of Texas are upon you...You can not get away.... ;)

Ron Horton
11-03-2006, 11:24 PM
Gary-- A good place to check on the ADA and other pertinent requirements is with a fire marshal who does plan checks-- If you are in a rural area who does not follow building codes, you still must comply with The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) as those are federal requirements-- If you are in a jurisdiction where there is an organized fire department who checks plans, they will usually be very helpful as they will likely check the plans as well-- Don't fall into the trap of building without PLANS APPROVED BY THE AGENCY HAVING JURISDICTION, BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO USE THE BUILDING-- Post construction remedies are very costly-- Good luck, best regards, Ron

Mike Burdick
11-04-2006, 01:35 AM
Gary,

I think what you are doing is a good idea! Like others have said I wouldn’t get into the details but having a good sketch of what your Church Board wants will help the architect and engineers develop a good plan much faster

One other thing you might consider, if you haven’t already, when designing the building - think industrial! This means if the church has a kitchen get heavy-duty restaurant quality stoves, sinks, faucets, refrigeration, and anything else you can think of. As for actual building materials, make it industrial too - meaning brick, quarry tile floors, solid heavy doors, etc. Also, keep window space to a minimum – heating a large building can be very expensive! In other words, go to the local school and use the same materials they use. Same with the bathrooms too! When designing the electrical system put plenty of outlets in - for some reason, those little old “Church Ladies” can find enumerable ways to overload a circuit!

As one can calculate, in a short time the maintenance bill will far exceed any saving made by not using industrial grade fixtures and materials in the first place. If you start out right you’ll be way ahead. Remember, depending on the size of building and quality of materials, maintenance costs can exceed the original building costs in as little as ten years. I know churches rely on "volunteer" labor but sometimes those "volunteers" can be pretty hard to find!

Using Industrial materials does not mean the church will look like a factory or school. That’s where design comes in. A good architect will be able make your church a most welcoming building and also one that is economical to keep up!

Locksmith
11-04-2006, 11:49 AM
I would make sure that you read the actual regulation and check with someone who draws up these plans all the time. You might also want to check the life saftey codes; What is allowed in a home may not be allowed in a "Place of public accomodation".

VERY IMPORTANT !!! I would be very careful about how inspectors are interpreting the regulations; one may not see it the same way as another!!!
Witness my customer being forced to remove the deadbolt from his glass and aluminum doors and instead install a latchlock, electric buzzer and a glass break button that would allow ANYONE to push a button and enter his space.
WHY? Because the fire inspector told him that because there was an exit at the rear of his space, he had to allow anyone in the hall access to his space, EVEN THOUGH MY CUSTOMER'S ENTRANCE DOOR WAS NEXT TO A FIRE STAIR WELL!!!.
After all this work was done, ANOTHER fire inspector came to inspect and told the guy he could, indeed have a deadbolt!!! THE FIRST INSPECTOR DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE RULES AND COST THIS GUY ABOUT $1000.00 TO GET UNNECESARY WORK DONE.