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View Full Version : I may have answer for climb mill damage control



Your Old Dog
11-04-2006, 07:05 AM
My ankle injury is progressing along so I can now get about 2 hours of shop time in before I have to come into the house to elevate my leg because of swelling. Well I had this happen to me as I forgot what side of the work I wanted the bit on.

http://www.raymondswan.com/dp/climb1.jpg

So when it's time to come in, lay down on the floor and rest my leg on the automon I got time to think. Here's the fix was simple! Make it look like it belonged there all the time! When working by hand as a gun engraver mistakes are inevitable, you really have to learn how to smooth them over! (so that shows you my frame of mind)

This piece is to hold a centering device for on my mill. I want a simple mechanical way to center over the work that doesn't require removing the bit. Nothing I'm doing in my shop will every require the accuracy of better methods.

The project has shown me I got no chance to make it as a machinist but I'm having a good time when not wrestling with the damn ankle. It sure helps relieve the boredom.

http://www.raymondswan.com/dp/climb2.jpg

thistle
11-04-2006, 11:10 AM
Nice-I would suggest you drill a hole and put a ball oiler in the vicinity as well!

Randolph
11-04-2006, 11:32 AM
I have heard it said that the true craftsman is not the one who never screws up but is rather the one who can screw up and fix it before he is caught up with. That seems to fit here!

BillH
11-04-2006, 12:51 PM
Also, you have a lot of stock sticking far away from the vise to be cutting it, gives you a lot more spring back. Just like on a lathe, having the workpiece far away from the chuck with no tail stock supporting.

Your Old Dog
11-04-2006, 01:21 PM
Also, you have a lot of stock sticking far away from the vise to be cutting it, gives you a lot more spring back. Just like on a lathe, having the workpiece far away from the chuck with no tail stock supporting.

I didn't have any choice on that count. But I find if I had just started my pass on the other side of the work I wouldn't have been climb milling.

I got a friend who talks a lot of theory so I figure if I put an indicator on the mill to the marks on the tool I can tell him it's so if my hole wasn't concentric this would allow me to fine tune it !! It's true but we'd be splitting some very fine hairs and probably wouldn't be able to measure the differance. I just love argueing with him ! LOL

dp
11-04-2006, 02:21 PM
That's pretty much the way tattoo artists need to work, sometimes. Turn a flub or a previous work into a fresh new artistic expression.

For a lessons learned perspective, what would have been a better setup to ensure more rigidity? I'm thinking a webbed precision angle plate and at least 3 point clamping. If nothing else it could make the mistake more expensive :)

Virgil Johnson
11-04-2006, 02:51 PM
>The project has shown me I got no chance to make it as a machinist

You have a good chance.I've worked with people that have been hired as toolmakers who would struggle to make that part. (didn't work with them very long)
Looks like your trouble is from the vise not holding properly (not tight enough?). Climb milling error would just be a gouge resulting from the backlash being pulled out of the lead screw.

John Stevenson
11-04-2006, 03:08 PM
YOD,
What speed and feed were you using ?

Been looking for getting this pattern on a couple of parts :D

.

billyboy
11-04-2006, 03:35 PM
its easy john, i do it all the time!!,ha, i'll show you when me and the kids and grandkids and the dog come for sunday dinner next week!
p.s we only like best beef!

Your Old Dog
11-04-2006, 04:09 PM
Bill, I understand that but I had done it before but when I did it before I took the time to snug up the ways a tad. I think the basic problem was caused by ways that felt sloppy and too fast a power infeed. I wasn't taking a heavy bite. It was a good lesson learned! This happend just when I was starting to feel good about myself and getting ready to go over to Forrest shop to see if he needed any pointers !! :D

Virgil, thanks! I'm having fun if that counts for anything!

John it was hard work developing this process. Takes a lot of math quick reflexes to duck when it don't work out like you planned. I'd be willing to take on some of your work on a sub-contract basis. But I ain't giveing up my technique, or is that lack of technique !

DP, I was supposed to engrave 3 scheutzen (sp) of the top flats on each of 3 barrells for a guy. On the last one I got carried away and engraved a 4th flat! He said he was having the ends turned down for several inches so I "stole" some slivers of steel from this area and filed it round and inlaid it into the 4th flat !! When the barrells were blued you could not tell which one had the flaw as the steel being the same it blued like the rest. That's why I don't do tattoos :D (well, that and the distractions)

outback
11-04-2006, 04:43 PM
Old Dog:

Most of us have machined a pattern like yours. It is all part of learning from your mistakes.

However, You may want to check your vise jaws to make certain they are not sprung or worn. If someone overtightened your vice the solid jaw may not be perpendicular and more open at the top than at the bottom. In other words the workpiece could be clamped more at the bottom and less at the top allowing the workpiece to pivot like your did.

Just a thought,
Jim

Your Old Dog
11-04-2006, 05:29 PM
Old Dog:

Most of us have machined a pattern like yours. It is all part of learning from your mistakes.

However, You may want to check your vise jaws to make certain they are not sprung or worn. If someone overtightened your vice the solid jaw may not be perpendicular and more open at the top than at the bottom. In other words the workpiece could be clamped more at the bottom and less at the top allowing the workpiece to pivot like your did.

Just a thought,
Jim

You know Outback you might be onto something there. As I tightened it down today I noticed a very faint trace of oil get squeezed out of the crack where the jaw bolts to the vice. I didn't think it was a big deal at the time because the jaw still rest squarely on the vice slide mount.

I'm sure it wasn't swarf because I'm forevery brushing and checking for that because of the dro and the machinist level I'm trying to shoot for accuracy whether I actually achieve it or not !! Thanks again for the suggestion, I'll take a closer look. Because this ain't a real expensive vice I wonder if I could have damaged it by clamping to the top of the jaws and over tightening?

ray........

lane
11-04-2006, 08:50 PM
Well in the every day machine shop we call though`s turkey feather`s. Useally associatedwith apprentice`s. You dont wont them on finished parts . But what the heck S--t happens.

Herm Williams
11-04-2006, 10:23 PM
My old teacher said "make it look like you intended it to be that way" good job.
re

Mcgyver
11-04-2006, 10:35 PM
the love-in with climb milling alludes me. The only time I'll use it is to take the last couple of thou off, but can't say I find much of an advantage with finish - sharp cutters work for me :D Why I'm bearish on it is our old industrial machines or new light bench top machines just have too much backlash and/or to little inertia in the table. yeah I know, tighten down the gibs - lets induce faster wear or incur the trouble of tight gibs on ways with some big variance in wear (loose in some spots, tight in others). its another matter all together if you are running a 7hp 100k vmc or big unit with 1000lb table, but that's not most of us here.

rantbot
11-04-2006, 11:51 PM
the love-in with climb milling alludes me.

It's less likely to split laminated materials.

That doesn't apply when cutting nice uniform isotropic blocks of metal, of course.

Your Old Dog
11-05-2006, 07:21 AM
its another matter all together if you are running a 7hp 100k vmc or big unit with 1000lb table, but that's not most of us here.

I don't plan on doing a lot of climb milling on my setup. It runs just fine for conventional milling and that's all I need. I can feel the machine start to vibrate when it ain't happy and that's normally when I'm not paying attention to climb cutting, gib adjustment and feed speeds.

At least in my shop, I'd have to agree with you.