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dhammer
03-06-2003, 08:40 AM
Thought I'd pass this on and see where it goes.

I've been trying to obtain an owner's manual and parts for a Jet table saw. I emailed the company a few times with no reply. I called their home office yesterday, talked to their receptionist. She typed my model #, stock # into her computer and there was a long silence.. "Oh Oh ", I thought. After an exchange of polite conversation she transfered me to tech services. The tech typed my numbers into his computer and immediately said "nope, your machine is too old." I asked him "how old", he replied "older than me.. maybe twenty years old". I then asked him if it is Jet company policy not to have parts or manuals for machines other than their current models.. long pause.. then he said he would check with another tech. Long wait.. elevator music.. finally came back with reply. "most companies don't stock parts for models older than eight years. I replied that well made machines shouldn't need parts for at least eight years, politely thanked him for his trouble and hung up. I guess I will have to make my own parts.

hms50
03-06-2003, 10:39 AM
dhammer,

I feel your pain and anger! Over the years we have had two Jet metal lathes and a bunch of woodworking machines in our school shop. Yuk! I don't want to be hyper critical, and they sure cost less than top-drawer machines, but let me just say, I have old American machines at home!
hms50

WJHartson
03-06-2003, 11:39 AM
Have run into the same type of problem with Grizzly. Some of the machines were discontinued after only a couple of years and some of the parts were not available. Found this out when I tried to order some parts to make something else and not to replace a broken part on the machine I have.

Joe

mbensema
03-06-2003, 12:50 PM
That is a standard policy in most industries not to keep parts onhand for old machines, but I am surprised that they do not have manuals available. It's very easy to store them electronically and print one out when they need to. Were you able to get the drawings of the parts you need?

Last company I worked for build industrial machines and stopped making parts around 10 years old and once stock was depleted, that was it. They would make the part for you if you wanted, but in some cases it was cheaper to buy a new machine.

Mike

wierdscience
03-06-2003, 11:17 PM
Remember Hendey machine tools,they made lathes ,shapers that sort of thing,well they made some of the best.These machines are very durable,too durable for the continued existance of the company.In other words they no longer exist,and while some may argue that the company is now part of Barber- Colman I'll bet they don't have parts for my 1944 model gearhead!You may count yourself lucky to get parts?manuals for 8 years most companies including automobile mfg.only stock these for 5 some less than 2.I also will be blunt, if you are a machinist and you need a part for your universal#3 doolamaflitchy make it yourself.if you are not a machinist this is a great way to learn!As for Jet remember they are also joined at the hip with Powermatic,Wilton and Performax and Powermatic isn't much better. I asker for a parts list for an 8"jointer the same one they have made for the last 30years (USA NOT CHINA)tech says they don't have one!I had to dream it up myself.And remember when power tool companies had service centers?well you better take a picture because they are going quick!I guess you have to ask yourself can I still get parts for my model"T"from Ford?Can I still get parts for my Packard from G.M.?Maybe so but not likely.I saw a t-shirt once that said "remember when drag racing was dangerous and sex was safe?"LIFE IS HARD GET A HELMET!. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Oso
03-06-2003, 11:57 PM
It is all about the bean counters. Some comapnies actually scrapped the parts they had so they could get them off the books. Accountants said " if they haven't bought out all these things in 40 years, they aren't going to, get rid of them".

There is some consumer protection in the USA, in that some things are supposed to be supported for 5 years at least. So that may give a little leverage, but if they don't have them, they don't, and that is all there is to say.

I hated it when HP and Tektronix "turned into pumpkins" about spare parts. Same woith General Radio, but they at least had mercy and gave me a print.

dhammer
03-07-2003, 09:21 AM
wierdscience,

Thanks for reminding me of the fact that life isn't always a "box of candy" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif Back when I was playing farmer I tried to purchase machinery made by John Deere. JD most always had the parts I needed.. even for my 1945 JD A. I am partial to GM products. I can buy parts and manuals for both my 1965 and 1980 Impala.

I'm thinking of upgrading from a contractor's saw to a cabinet model. Will I consider Jet? No way. I'll be a little more cautious and check into parts availability BEFORE I plunk down my money.

DR
03-07-2003, 11:43 AM
dhammer,

Whoa!!! Jet 20 years ago.....

I was in their Tacoma parts/repair operation about 20 years ago. Ever been to one of those auto wrecking yards out in the country with the vicious attack dog and the dark, dingy office with greasy parts all over the place? That's what I think of as Jet back in those days.

Spare parts? Forget about it. It appeared they would label any piece of third world junk with the Jet name. The place was full of defective machines returned under warrantee. They had no facilities or anyone knowledgeable enough to fix these machines so they re-sold them "as is". I heard rumors that dealers would buy these reject machines at a substantial discount and sell them as new machines (without disclosing the reject status).

Jump forward a few years to Jet's new location in Auburn. Full of returned defective machines, but well lit and clean. It still appeared they did not repair the returned machines.

Makes you wonder about their machines, that apparently they aren't worth investing the time and effort to repair.

docsteve66
03-07-2003, 03:51 PM
lordy me weird one- you get more like me every time you let your hair down and let it all hang out!!! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif. Go, mman go!!!! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

As a kid i saw too many "shadetree mechanics" who had neither shade tree nor tools, essentialy "voting" on how many shims you take out of a connecting rod bearing or how tight should that bolt be.

When I bought my first real car (engine ran before i paid http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif ) I got a manual, Every new car I had in my hands the factory manual before they got cash. I TRY to get schematics ,aprts list etc for anything i buy. Mostly I fail.

Machine tools should last a lifetime in hobby use. You have no power after they have the money. Bargin for books. "they" always tell you how easy it is to get a book after the sale. If its so easy then let them get the book first they supposedly know how. My old lathe had no book- I found a copy in libary- but they don't sell books. but the book had never been checked out and it was old!!!! So we agreed I could "lose it" aand pay. I didso- lost that book before i got out the door- lady libarian just laughed and said some thing like " Mr stevens you all ways push things don't you?" Point is if anything in life is woorth sealing, its books and knowledge. The Asian stuff to often simply has no support- books, techs or returns. They will do better if we insist that we want what ever they have and disparage what they give us. But there will never be books produced after the sale- its counter productive- the MFR (that manufacutrer not mother bumpty bump) hope the stuff hangs together long enough taht you will buy again. if, as saaid above, it lasts too long they go broke. So ability to maintain, shipping costs standard size bearings, especially standard motor frame sizes, pullies that can be pulled (pull in pully area?), plenty of lub spots are things to consider also. As said above
good man can use a sloppy machine and make precision stuff- but if it won't cut the you are back to the armstrong mill (file).

Demand the books!

Techtchr
03-07-2003, 05:43 PM
Ditto what doc said. I buy a book with every car, and I've got manuals with most machinery. I bought a powermatic 12" table saw at an auction. Couldn't get parts for it, but I got enough information from the parts manual to enable me to return this well-made machine to service. Information is everything.

As far as jet goes the only knowledge of jet machine tools i have is from a good friend who purchased a lathe for an alternator rebuild company. After two months of replacing every fastener that vibrated loose, or wasn't tight in the first place, they finally got a workable lathe.

Matt

George Hodge
03-07-2003, 10:11 PM
I've got a Jet 16 Mill/drill,that's done all I've asked for it to do. Little tinkering here and there. Not as solid or heavy as the Gorton Mill at work,but it was all I could afford at the time. I expect to come across a US made mill in the next few years,just hope I can afford to grab it.

wierdscience
03-07-2003, 10:37 PM
The maddest man I ever did see was was a former boss who when Grey charged him $275.00 for a parts/repair manual to a 4"boring mill ram that they had just rebuilt for a cost of $68,000!I actually saw him jump up and down as he screamed into the phone for ten minutes or so they did finally wave the book cost and sent him a coffee mug! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif I have sold and used import tools of every description for about 10 years,We always do the right thing as far as quality is concerned if we get something that turns out to be crap we quit selling it or use another vendor somethings like jackstands and bottle jacks and that sort of thing are hard to screw up,but electric motors are a whole other story I can honestly say that the US,Canada and Japan make the best motors world wide.The asians are getting better some are coming in from Korea and Taiwan that are pretty good China is pure crap as for Jet I stay away.I have said it before if a company won't give me service I will not deal with them!The folks at Grizzly I have had good service from as well as others.I have noticed to that some of the American made products are becoming less quality than some imports lots more plastic and pop rivets.One area this is true is guns I see more and more rivets and spot welds instead of screws and pins.While we are on memory lane I remember when I was a kid which that wasn't long ago our local family owned hardware store sold guns ,tools,camping gear and appliances the good stuff and when you walked in the door three clerks would nearly Knock you over waiting on you and if they didn't have it they would get it in short order.Well sadly the old place shut down about two years ago and all we have left is wal-mart.Not worth a damn for anything!As far as quality I think the enviroment would be better off if we made things to last longer or atleast be repairable.I have an idea that some things should be left alone too.Remember when we had deposit pop bottles?I remember when we were kids I would take off walking to the country store about two miles down the road and by the time I got there I had picked up enough emptys to get another full one.It also kept me out of trouble for a while http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Now all you got is worthless plastic that piles up on the ground and fat lazy kids. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Dave Opincarne
03-07-2003, 10:50 PM
I'll second George. My Jet mill drill has given me no problem and done well. I think it's important to differintiat between Jet vs. Delta (to pick a name) of twenty years ago verses Jet vs. Delta in the here and now. We also have a jet planer/molder and a 10" table saw in our home shop. Both are well documented and the fit and finish is as good as the current Delta. There is a large number of people in the woodworking community who feel Jet's saws are every bit as good as the Delta. This has not always been the case but Jet seems to have worked hard to bring up their quality. Jet also provides full documentation at their website.

We bought the tablesaw at the Jet factory seconds counter at their headquarters in Auburn. The people there were very healpful and we got the saw at a greatly reduced rate. The saw was originaly returned with a bad motor and arbor but Jet replaced the motor and arbor for us and esentialy sold us a new saw at a great discount. The saw has been working well and is very well made.

CCWKen
03-08-2003, 12:35 AM
Well...Let's not forget the whole reason why offshore equipment is so previlent. Why, for my limited use, would I want to pay $40,000 for a lathe when I can get one for $4,000 and do the same thing? Why would I want to pay $10,000 for a shear when I can do the same thing with a $2800 shear? Why pay $500 for a saw when I can cut my bar stock with a $50 saw?
So what if it lasts only five to ten years, It's cost is written off by then and I'll just get another. If it breaks and it's simple, I'll fix it. If not, I'll buy another. Either way, I can buy 10 for the price on one American. That means I can get 50-100 years of service for the same price, and be up-to-date. Why would I want to buy someone's old, worn-out and written-off scrap just to say "I Bought American"? Hooey on that. The money has gone offshore anyway when the owner drives home in his BMW.
Life is tough. It's Global Economics now. Why would interest rates (for many) be based on LIBOR? US factories can't SPEND X dollars to make something and sell it for 1/2 X. You can't pay someone $30-50/hr. and expect to sell their service for $5/hr. With many US companies, they buy an item for $1 offshore, slap their name on it and sell it for $100. So the argument of "Buy American" has no meaning any more.
You are still supporting an American company even though the product may be imported. You pay taxes on products no matter where they come from. You pay a local mechanic to work on your imported car. You buy imported fruit from you local grocery.
If you have deep pockets and want to spend it lavishly, spend it where you want. But, don't claim you hardware is better than mine for my use--because the iron probably came from the same foundry and without the markup.

dvideo
03-08-2003, 01:21 AM
It is more complex and cynical than you are saying... lots more. If we worked for free and our tools were free, then it still would not matter about slowing the loss of jobs. Free, and I really mean it. Here is an example. Several years ago a major foreign company bought a number of movie creation and rights companies here. They puttered along for a while and then made a major investment in High Definition Video - hundreds of millions of dollars. Then they later annound terrible losses, just TERRIBLE!... Billions of dollars in losses...!! But they did not sell the studios - in fact expanded their presence. So what happened? First, their major purchases were from the foreign mother company. A $5000 tape deck to build might be sold to the US side for $500K... then used and *presto* - a terrible, terrible loss!!! of may be $400K. So what really happend? the profitablity got moved off shore and the losses shielded the income stream. Their competitors, if native US, could not compete - nominaly - with this. Now everyone plays this game - including technology companies and machine tool companies. Buy your machines in Asia. write them off. Buy them here, and you can "depreciate" over time and pay taxes on it all the while for value, use, and everything else. Here you get killed to pay for medical, legal, and financial expenses. There, you don't. My monthly medical insurance is "typical" for the US and exceeds the income of workers in most of the world. For all of these problems, you can not blame the demise of our manufacturers on "high american labor" and "expensive tools" - just ain't so.

The only way you fix it is to export government offshore - just as if it were another line job. And it is proven that much of it can be.

BTW - there is a big fight shaping up beteen Kaza and the Movie guy - same bunch who take advantage of the foreign tax implications. Kaza obeys the rules of the country where they do business... just like the studios.. but it turns back to bite the studios. Interesting to see how this really plays out.... On a much bigger scale, there is the China - linux card played in oppisition to the MicroSoft dominance. Same issues there.

-- Just thought I'd rant about the source of things really collapsing. My dad was a Union Officer in the textile union in the 1930s. He went through the destruction of that industry by the Dept of Defense and dept. of commerce. He had a lot of opnions -pro and con - about the matter - that are as good today as then...

-- jerry r.

docsteve66
03-08-2003, 11:14 AM
Jerry r; to me, its axiomatic that what ever govt trys to do ultimately results in the exact opposte of what they intended. When Govt started "improving" and "protecting" labor and inndustry they got good results at first, then the shrewd bean counters figure out how to use the restrictions to THEIR advantage and viola! things get worse than they were at the start. Let people wwork out their problems and over time the peoplle will maakethings better all by their lonesome selves if they are not bound by the handcuffs of legaliity

Steve

Chris Fazio
03-10-2003, 11:43 AM
I get tired of hearing that the we can't compete with the whoevers because we pay our workers to much money. Yes our wages are higher, but that is only a part of the problem. I believe a bigger problem comes from paying the 21 vice presidents of the company over a million dollars a year and the CEO making ??? millions a year. These people produce no product but suck a hell of a lot of money from the company. If these people disappeared product would still go out the door, because most of them don't know much, if anything about the product or the procedure to make it. These millions of dollars would buy a lot of workers or equipment that do produce product. I'm not saying the wages payed to the workers doesn't have some influence on the cost of producing the product, but the greed of the bigshots far outweighs this in the final cost of the product. I believe our products could be attractively priced if we could eliminate some of this greed. No I don't think the price would be equal to the price of say Chinese stuff but I wouldn't mind paying a little more to keep our people working. I wonder what's going to happen when we no longer make anything in this country which appears to be where we are heading.Just my opinion.

Chris

Axel
03-10-2003, 01:51 PM
I've had chinese machines, both lathe and mill. Both were crap! I was unlucky, you need luck when you buy these machines, because the quality is VERY uneven. Some machines are good and some are less good.Do not buy by mailorder!!!

Best bet is to buy an old used machine! But you must learn what to look for first. Just like when you buy a car.

Spin Doctor
03-10-2003, 05:39 PM
This really doesn't have anything to do with Jet specificly. The other day at work I went to the recieving dock to pick up some bearings and seal I had on order(the bearings were NSKs which kind of ticked me off) and there were about 15 skids full of spare parts for machinery and fixtures that the crib was deleting. There was probably 1/2 million in parts they were deleting. The justifacation was that way we can write it off and don't have to pay inventory taxes. Every time accounting pulls this stunt the next week there is a major breakdown and the parts we would of been able to use are already on there way to the minimill and I don't mean one of Haas's either. On the subject of Haas. If American workers or industry can't compete explain their sucess to me.

Dave Burnett
03-10-2003, 09:50 PM
I think they sell Jet machines in kit form, you do the final fitting to it after you get it.

wierdscience
03-10-2003, 10:15 PM
Before anyone else gets their pantys in a knot let me explain a few things about machinery production.The biggest problem in the area of machine tools is production numbers they are by nature low adding to this is the complexity of the average machine.I recently purchased a used K&T mill I counted up the parts and that machine has between 1,251 and 1369 parts that are unique to the machine all of these are close tolerence and expenseive to make.Thats why replacement parts are expensive, there aren't any,most of the time if you call the company they send the prints for your part to a job shop and get a qoute and then tell you the price and about 12 weeks delivery.Plus the demand for manual machines in industry is and has been in decline for years this trend started about 1950 after most of our smaller factories retooled after the war.Part of this is due to the avalibility of cnc machines and part of this is because of the move by industry to eliminate workers.Workers after all are expensive they require light to see,water to drink,safty gear of every discription,health insurance,401k's,paper work to choke a horse and last but not least government agencies as far as the eye can see.Lets face it we humans are high maintainece.I find it funny that now that this is the norm industry is now complaining about the lack of skilled labor!But back to the subject the machine tool mfgs.like to make cnc machines because most of the parts come from somewhere else in a box, you know leadscrews form Saginaw contollers from GE or Hitachi hell I know of one company that doesn't even stick on their own decals.Nc machines are guttless wonders that they can charge lots of money for so they can there by make more money on lower numbers being produced, do I agree with this ?No I do Not If it were a perfect world you would still be able to buy an American lathe at a resonable price.As far as compition from overseas we used to have compition right here at home.Ever see all the machine tool companies that no longer exist they number in the thousands ever here of an Excellcior lathe or drill press?What about a Kingsford mill?The point is we had lots of compition long before Asia begain building machines, compaies came and went all the time.Even the ones that held on in this country have finally thrown in the towel,didn't I hear recently that South Bend is in bankruptcy?I had also heard that a 10"cabinet lathe was selling for$11,000,someone said that "they where still making them because someone was still buying them"well obviously they wheren't buying them because they went bankrupt.As far as the imports are concerned I would be interested in the total number imported each year in comparision to the number produced.The other problem is many of the machines made in this country are still in operation or in storage some where waiting to be fired up again the things just don't get thrown away.The reverse side of the import/production number thought is maybe their production numbers are higher than they are here because many of the machines are staying in the countries that are producing them i.e. the demand is greater in the developing world.If this is the case then thier production numbers would be higher and therefore the machines would be produced in larger batches and the costs would be lower.An indication is in the recent down turn in the global economy when the Yen fell against the dollar the cost of an import machine should have dropped,however they did not in fact they increased this could be for two reasons# 1 maybe the American dealers wanted to increase profits or# 2 production numbers fell and because of reduced factory orders the cost per unit increased to offset any potential gains on the exchnge rate?I suspect that both are true to some extent.Now lets consider a third possibility, market saturation ,I believe that the market has reached saturation for the time being in the US, especially after 911.Where are we going from here?Its hard to say.

davestea
03-10-2003, 10:38 PM
Just like to add 2 cents here -

All you guys are lamenting lack of manuals and lack of parts.

Most of you are also panning the 'off shore' machine tools.

Well, I bought a Smithy (3in1). I got a manual - not a great one but it has full drawings and parts lists. And I can get a part in less than a week.

Bought a tail stock ram last week (spun the drill chuck and MT3 taper - arghhh.... ) Called, gave them $20 plastic and had it in just a few day.

So you all can give me the horse laugh for having a 'cheap' Asain machine - and a 3in1 no less, but what can I say? I got the manual and they stock the parts. So who is the smarter here?

wierdscience
03-10-2003, 11:44 PM
Hey,Dave I got no problem with that,When you thing about it when a machine tool company sells you a machine they assume that you will after all know what to do with it.I do believe the reason that South Bend was so sucessful was the fact that they provided booklets to teach the basic operations as well as a sales aid.I recently asked around on this very board for a manual for my K&T mill not because I had to have it but because it made repairs easier to have it ,and since they are valued by many people it also increases the value if I ever sell it(slim chance of that) Also if anyone out there provides you with a copy reimberse them mightily(Jim if you read this thanks again buddy!!!) http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

davestea
03-11-2003, 08:06 PM
Ya - my Sears Atlas (6") has a great little manual with it. I use if for general practice stuff now and then.

------------------
Dave - Castro Valley CA - Smithy, Select Mill, Atlas 6" and Unimat lathe

GreenWillyPeter
03-11-2003, 11:59 PM
Back in the 40's we were fighting a war, there were a lot less people and a whole lot less of everything else. In the 50's we were rebuilding a world ecomony and building a country. Lots of machinery needed to make things. In the year 2000 plus all the old machinery is worn out and so are most of the people that live in the past. The economy has changed, life has changed, the world has changed, EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED. Jesus Christ on a crutch, get over it. I get so tired of reading the same crap on every forum I go to, I swear the same people populate all the forums. Can't get over the good OLD days. The good OLD days were crap, I like the good NEW days. I don't want something that will last a thousand years or even a hundred years because I will live only a few more years and I don't give a damn if my new lathe only lasts 10 years, I won't be around to worry. My kids have other lives and won't use it anyway. We have built the world we live in just like ants that build the mound they live in. I like buying new things that last only until I get tired of them so I can buy other new things and you can keep your old garbage and spend all your time making parts for it because there are no parts available. Go out and get something new so you don't have to deal with chasing more garbage. Keep the NOW ecomony going and quit whining about WHAT WAS, IT'S OVER. Every time I see some old junk for same on Ebay, I get a mental picture of Ebenezer Scrooge squeezing a nickle till the buffalo ****s, all shriveled up, in a dark room, grasping a nubbin of a pencil and writing on a tattered sheet of over used paper. What a sorry picture. Get a life. Whine, whine

How's that for a rebuttal to "Lets see where it goes."

GreenWillyPeter at your service. Life's a box of chocolates, but I hate surprizes.

wierdscience
03-12-2003, 12:27 AM
Greenman, sit back relax cool off a minute don't blow a gasket haven't you ever heard the one who has the most junk when he dies wins http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Thrud
03-12-2003, 12:34 AM
We don't need no stinkin' manuals!

Where is the fun in knowing what the hell you are doing! If you need a manual - it is too complicated for you in the first place.

That's why I insist I get them free (yeah, right) with a new machine - cuz I can't be bothered reading instructions until I "break" it in - so to speak.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif

1erful
03-12-2003, 02:07 AM
GWP: I am glad to see that you are just as happy as ever. ;-) My wife and I are planning to go to Bend this spring and I would like to visit a kindred soul so if you wish to, email me or reply somehow. WALT WARREN

dhammer
03-12-2003, 07:31 AM
Some folks sure do have an interesting perspective on life. I am going to trade in my car today.. the ashtray is dirty http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

GreenWillyPeter
03-12-2003, 12:20 PM
Just an alternative observation to think about. Most people are so wrapped up in their own little world they don't/won't/ can't understand much about the big world. Money has to flow to keep ecomonies working and we all have pet peeves, usually reserved for when the booze loosens the tongue or want to wax philisophically. Only some of what I last posted I beleive. Of course, I would like to change some of the ignorance in the world, wars, poverty, the wide range in wealth, governments and politicians, lack of conscience but to do so would entail a large decrease in population, then who would fix the broken machines. Next time you want to whine, think about the fact that it was a whole bunch of you and me's that made our world the way it is and it usually boils down to just wanting to buy something cheaper or get it "on sale", get a "good deal", find some business that failed and get if for 'next to nothing", get a bigger raise, buy it on Ebay, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. Get on with it, I'm tired of being constantly reminded of the failings of humanity. Now, can we get on with the discussion of how to be a better machinist and leave the GREAD AND AVARICE to the bean counters and politicians??????

GreenWillyPeter at your serice. Things can always be made worse, cheaper, less dependable and sold for a higher price. We call that PROGRESS.

NAMPeters
03-12-2003, 01:09 PM
Well GreenWillyPeter glad to see your back. How did you make out with the following: "It's been another real experience. When I get my lathe up and running I'll stop by again to see if the players have changed, but now the sun is out and the rats are just waiting to die. Go two rifles finished today and 200 rounds apiece loaded up. My rig is all set up. Time to go kill something soft and furry. I'll be back when the snow flies."?

------------------
Neil Peters

mike thomas
03-12-2003, 08:05 PM
Neil, It ain't worth it. Mike

GreenWillyPeter
03-13-2003, 12:25 AM
Of course the players don't change or attitudes and it ain't worth it and never has been, for sure. I got my lathe set up and running. Built a few pieces and parts to make other pieces and parts. Swapped in a big bore barrel on a Savage 110. Used up all the ammo, then a lot more. What makes you go back so far and quote me??????I think Freud would have something to say about that. Made a few gauges for different calibers to test a few ideas. Getting the pieces and parts ready to build a milling attachment for the lathe and generally exlporing the parameters of my new toy. Oh, yes, had a close encounter with a large carnivore while scouting for wood. Nice to see there are a few still around that will piss on you when you get too close. Upset my dog no end. She thinks all cats are edible fare and couldn't understand why this one was off limits. See, there is plenty to do and see way out in the boonies, and just as much fun. Kinda like walking at night in EastLA or NorthLV when you're a white boy, an adventure every minute.

How do you set your lathe up to cut an inside taper of 0.356° x 1.90"?

GreenWillyPeter at your service. Step outside and listen to the whooping cranes, the're telling you a story.

Dave Opincarne
03-13-2003, 12:49 AM
GWP

Trig, a dial indicator, a test bar, and a compound.

One leg of the triangle is 1.900", trig out the other leg. Mark out your test bar with scribed lines 1.900" apart. Run the dial indicator between the lines using the compound and adjust the angle until the DI shows the proper travel. Only trick is making sure you're on the center line and the indicater is square to the test bar.

[This message has been edited by Dave Opincarne (edited 03-13-2003).]

GreenWillyPeter
03-13-2003, 04:01 PM
Thanks Dave. I used the tan -1 to come up with the fractional degree number and guessed cutting the inside taper was the same theory as cutting an outside taper with the compound. Getting it set up is where the bear is chasing the squirrel. It seemed just too simple at first. I keep looking for complicated. The runout on the spindle is right at 0.0005" and I haven't lined up the tailstock nor leveled the lathe close enough yet. The cheap Precision level I bought isn't so precision and I don't have anything but an 8 ft carpenters level to check it with????? I know...another example of the nickle waggin the dollar and economy over quality. I hang my head for 1 second.

Thanks again Dave. Give yourself a great big hug, you did good.

GreenWillyPeter at your service. Sometimes you waste the dragon, sometimes the dragon has a tasty tidbit for lunch.

Dave Opincarne
03-13-2003, 08:45 PM
No Prob. Pet the puma for me (the four leged one, not the one eyed one). Damn dog was out barking at coons or cats or something this five am. Got the other two going to.

If you're sweating five tenths then you're going to want to check your results and be prepared to do it over. Use a sine bar for best results. If you've got the male taper you can check it with prussian blue.

Dave

Never anger a dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with brie.

[This message has been edited by Dave Opincarne (edited 03-13-2003).]

GreenWillyPeter
03-13-2003, 10:37 PM
I'm just glad that particular ***** stayed in the bush. Couldn't tell what sex for sure. Would have been a total shame if decided to come out to play. Makes you understand that man isn't at the top of the food chain in some parts, we only have the tools to end things. In long days past a .22 would have turned that cat into a mount to show my "prowess". I did some sad things when I didn't know better.

I'm happy with the runout and not worried about such small things. I can hold a thou most of the time and that's good enough for the girls used to go with. If I can get between 6 and 7 thou taper it will hold what I want to hold just fine. It's only an exercise to check out my math and the lathe.

Enjoy

GreenWillyPeter at your service. That dragon has very bad halitosis.