How long has HF been selling a BP clone?

[Mike W]

The web site currently shows this: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38733

I recently saw one that was built in 96 but I don't know if HF was the seller. All I had to go on was the Central Machinery lable. I don't know of anyone else using that brand. Any input? Thanks.

[Mark Hockett]

They have been selling those for quite a while. If the one in the picture is really the one they sell it is the same as the Birmingham and Enco Turn Pro machines that are made in Taiwan with Mehanite castings. They probably show that picture and ship a Chinese made machine.

[Mike W]

I downloaded the manual from HF. On the first page titled Operation Manual, there is a hand written note "Birmingham 9x49/9x42" on the top of the page.

[Bill Pace]

The Birmingham note on the HF manual is a suprise!!

For grins I went to Bills tool site and ckd the price for a comparable "real" Birmy mill and --suprise!--its cheaper than than the HF!

http://www.billstoolcrib.com/birmbpsmil.htm

[dp]

The Birmingham note on the HF manual is a suprise!!

For grins I went to Bills tool site and ckd the price for a comparable "real" Birmy mill and --suprise!--its cheaper than than the HF!

http://www.billstoolcrib.com/birmbpsmil.htm

And the "fright" is affordable, too :) From the web page:
Maximum Fright $450.00

Can anyone venture a guess at the total cost of such a machine once it is reasonably accessorized with essential tools?

[Mike W]

Tooling is kind of "the sky is the limit" type of thing. It just depends of what you want to be able to do. Bill's does seem to have the best prices. If I buy a new mill, I would get the 3 phase step pulley mill and use a vfd. It would seem to be more reliable than the variable speed unit plus would be cheaper.

[Bill Pace]

Can anyone venture a guess at the total cost of such a machine once it is reasonably accessorized with essential tools?

This would be difficult, if not impossible to determine, what with each individuals wants/needs being so different, and with the range of tools/accessories being so broad with the many import choices/prices. I think it would be a given that the cost to outfit a mill (or lathe) can run into hundreds quickly, and slip onto thousands without much effort.

While they arent necessary to turn out work, I sure would hate to have to do with out power feed and DRO---and heck, I may as well say variable speed too, which would mean I would do as Mike said, and get the 3ph and add a VFD----(these are items that can slip those costs into the thousands)

I got my 12x36 Birmy from Bills and was impressed with their product, service and price, and I'll have to admit I'm coveting after one of these Bridgeport clones,... sigh!!----can we EVER be satisfied with enought tools??

[lazlo]

If the one in the picture is really the one they sell it is the same as the Birmingham and Enco Turn Pro machines that are made in Taiwan with Mehanite castings. They probably show that picture and ship a Chinese made machine.

Yep, we discussed this a couple of days ago on PM -- the HF manual says the machine is made in Shenyang, China.

[dewat]

,... sigh!!----can we EVER be satisfied with enough tools??

I guess it goes without saying that that is a rhetorical question :D .

[rantbot]

Harbor's really moving up-market - they even have real moustraps, not Chinese copy mousetraps, like this Ketch-All -

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42078

[Bill Pace]

Hey Rant.....

That goofy mousetrap saved my sanity AND my tools and maybe my shop. Had gotten a real plague of the stinkin things, and couldnt seem to make a dent in them. bought one of these things and started catching 1-3 a day --- in about a 3 month span I caught over a hundred. I have to chuckle at the "humanitarian" aspect of it, I slide the cover back a little, poke a stick in and beat the s&%$# out of the little s^%$^

[BigBoy1]

Hey Rant.....

I have to chuckle at the "humanitarian" aspect of it, I slide the cover back a little, poke a stick in and beat the s&%$# out of the little s^%$^


Put the whole trap in the freeze for a few hours and the "beating with a stick" is eliminated and you end up with "Mouse-cicles"!!!

Bill

[pcarpenter]

Mike Wrote--

"If I buy a new mill, I would get the 3 phase step pulley mill and use a vfd"

I have a VS head Bridgeport and while there are more parts than the step pulley head, those of us in home shops are never going to wear one out. The most common item to need replacement are some easily replaced plastic bushings that the sheaves slide up and down on to prevent wear on the shaft. This sort of VS drive design has apparently been around for years. I have a maybe 40's vintage shaper that uses it, and the CVT's used in snowmobiles and ATV's (and now even some cars) are similar in design. It's a pretty tough design.

What I really don't understand, but hear recommended a lot is the wisdom (or lack therof) of going to a fixed pulley ratio and then only varying the frequency to the motor to change speed using a VFD. There is more to the issue than just the final drive speed. There is also the issue of load on the drive train and motor. Certainly a VFD can give you practically infinite adjustment, but I don't think that they are designed to allow you to completely ignore the mechanical load you are presenting to the motor (through the ratio of pulleys) and the rest of the driveline. You wouldn't drive your car in only one gear--even if the engine would handle the necessary range of RPM's.

Think about riding a ten speed bike and setting it to 5th gear and saying "I will use this gear for everything and just change the speed at which I pedal". You are the motor and now have to ride uphill in 5th gear making huge amounts of torque (think heat in a motor), putting lots of stress on you and on the drive train etc. Likewise, going fast would make more sense if you used tenth gear and you might be more apt to avoid a heart attack--even if you are capable of pedaling very fast.

I think the smart thing is to change the belt position as designed and just use the VFD to vary within the ranges (if you find that granular level of speed adjustment necessary). This is probably even more true for gear trains (like perhaps a lathe geartrain) where changes in gear ratios can dramatically reduce the forces applied to portions of a drive train.

Paul

[Mike W]

10-4 Paul. Do you happpen to know if the 3 phase step pulley units use a two speed motor? The single phase units are 8 speeds compared to 16 for the 3 phase.

[pcarpenter]

Hmmm....good question. I would think you are probably right. While I know about the real bridgeport stuff, I don't know for sure about the knock offs. Sometimes the copies have some neat features that the original did not, and a two-speed motor makes sense. I see them on some of the Chineese lathes with three-phase motors. I can say with reasonable certainty that they probably don't have a step pulley with 8 steps ;)

The way they normally work is that you have 4 steps on the pulley and then a back gear that makes then for 8 possible combinations.

Paul

[cat40]

Hi guys, i have a Millport 2S with a 2 speed motor with 4 steps on the pulleys.I think that idea is a great way to get a wide range of rpms with out changing step pulleys http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/cat40_2006/millport002.jpghttp://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/cat40_2006/millport001.jpg