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Magee
12-14-2006, 12:49 PM
So...
I won an eBay auction for a "New in Box" 8" Mitutoyo dial caliper. I probably shouldn't be, but I was surprised to discover that it was made in Brasil. My other Mitutoyo stuff is all made in Japan. There's also a fair amount of plastic on this caliper, which I'm not too excited about, but there's also a Ti-Nitride coating on the sliding surfaces which is pretty cool.

http://images.storefrontservices.com/15/1553_300.jpg

Overall, though, it seems like a pretty well-made caliper, and I'm happy with it despite the surprise country of origin (especially considering how little I paid), but I'd have been a bit miffed if I bought this at retail prices.

I'm just wondering what the general consensus is... Is Mitutoyo now a brand I should be much more cautious of?

lazlo
12-14-2006, 01:07 PM
I'm just wondering what the general consensus is... Is Mitutoyo now a brand I should be much more cautious of?

You have to be careful of all brands these days -- Starrett manufacturs a lot of their tools in China now, and Brown and Sharpe was bought-out by a Swedish tool conglomerate years ago, so many of the B&S tools are also Chinese.

The most definitive review of the various dial indicators, DTI's, calipers and micrometers I've found is the Long Island Indicator Service:

http://longislandindicator.com/calipers.html

Mitutoyo dial calipers are assembled in Brazil, metric versions in Japan. The beam is coated—a new innovation—so that it doesn't easily wear down with repeated use.. We've noticed mechanical difficulties in some new models made in Brazil. If the gage has "jumped a tooth" then zero setting is not possible without disassembly on these Brazilian models.

Starrett dial calipers have a marked disadvantage. The metal is soft and bends easily under heavy use. The jaws quickly become misaligned and errors appear. Plastic parts have shown up on recent models and no one is impressed. It is not clear where these are manufactured, but Starrett would like you to believe it's here in the States. One model of 6" calipers (1202A) is clearly made in China. Buy Starrett for the name but not for the quality.

dan s
12-14-2006, 01:09 PM
I just picked up an 8 Dial from Enco, and it to says made in Brazil. My guess is that Mitutoyo has off-shored the easy to make products to keep costs down.

Evan
12-14-2006, 01:14 PM
The country of origin doesn't make any difference. What matters is the standard of quality. That is for you to decide now that you have the product. It isn't possible to make generalizations as to quality based on where something is made. All large corporations operate internationally and have components produced in many different countries. It is highly unlikely that all the parts of that tool were made in Brazil.

I also point out that Snap on, Starrett, Hardinge, AMD and Intel all manufacture in China now.

old_dave
12-14-2006, 01:15 PM
I bought (new) a 3-4" Mitutoyo micrometer over 20 years ago (early 1980's), model no. 103-218. It is marked "Made in Brazil"
David

lazlo
12-14-2006, 01:19 PM
The country of origin doesn't make any difference.

I disagree. I've never seen a high-quality product of any kind coming out of China. They certainly make good,
mediocre quality products there, at an amazingly low price, and that's a very large market segment.


I also point out that Snap on, Starrett, Hardinge, AMD and Intel all manufacture in China now.

Those companies all make low-end, cost-engineered products in China. All the high-end stuff is still made in the West.

mochinist
12-14-2006, 01:25 PM
I bought (new) a 3-4" Mitutoyo micrometer over 20 years ago (early 1980's), model no. 103-218. It is marked "Made in Brazil"
DavidI was going to mention this, it's nothing new. In fact I have a couple dial calipers made by mitutoyo, one said japan and the other said brasil, and the brasil made ones were far smoother operation wise and just looked nicer.

mochinist
12-14-2006, 01:26 PM
I disagree. I've never seen a high-quality product of any kind coming out of China. They certainly make good,
mediocre quality products there, at an amazingly low price, and that's a very large market segment.Their rubber dog poop is second to none.

Evan
12-14-2006, 01:28 PM
Those companies all make low-end, cost-engineered products in China. All the high-end stuff is still made in the West.

Except for things like their communications and meteorological satellites. China makes high quality products too. You get what you pay for. There is no such thing as a low quality "cost engineered" CPU. It either works or it doesn't.

lazlo
12-14-2006, 01:31 PM
There is no such thing as a low quality "cost engineered" CPU. It either works or it doesn't.

Neither AMD nor Intel makes their high-end CPUs in China. Intel CPUs are manufactured in Chandler, Arizona and Portland Oregon, and AMD's high-end CPUs are manufactured in Dresden, Germany.

AMD and Intel do primarily package assembly and board manaufacturing in the AsiaPac countries.

Evan
12-14-2006, 01:45 PM
AMD Singapore
Established in 1984, AMD Singapore offers back-end manufacturing facilities for the company's microprocessor, telecommunication and network products — AMD's most sophisticated devices. AMD Singapore moved in to their new seven floor test plant and design centre in January 2003, which encompasses 345,000 square feet, including a 260,000 square feet production facility. The new Singapore facility expands on AMD's existing 258,000 square feet production facility, and operates as a test center for microprocessors, engineering research and development, and integrated circuit design activities.
http://www.amd.com/gb-uk/Corporate/AboutAMD/0,,51_52_502_1993,00.html

The new quad core Opteron is code named "Shanghai".



AMD Opens New Shanghai Research And Development Center


August 22, 2006
AMD (AMD (http://www.chinatechnews.com/stocks.php?Symbol=AMD)) has opened the Shanghai Research and Development Center, a multi-million dollar research and development facility driving next-generation AMD processor-powered platform innovation through increased technology partner and customer collaboration.

Initially, the SRDC's engineering staff will focus on the development of AMD's next-generation mobile platforms (http://www.chinatechnews.com/2006/08/22/amd-opens-new-shanghai-research-and-development-center/#), but will also provide an important role in the validation and testing of AMD's (http://www.chinatechnews.com/2006/08/22/amd-opens-new-shanghai-research-and-development-center/#) broad range of current and future microprocessors. http://www.chinatechnews.com/2006/08/22/amd-opens-new-shanghai-research-and-development-center/

lazlo
12-14-2006, 03:17 PM
AMD Singapore offers back-end manufacturing facilities

"Back-end manufacturing" is package assembly (assembling the raw CPU die into the carrier package), which AMD and Intel both do in third-world and AsiaPac countries. Intel has package assembly factories in Costa Rica, Vietnam, and Penang, for example.

All Opterons come off the AMD line in Dresden.


AMD has opened the Shanghai Research and Development Center, a research and development facility driving AMD processor-powered platform innovation through increased technology partner and customer collaboration.

the SRDC's engineering staff will focus on the development of AMD's next-generation mobile platforms,

That's industry-speak for laptop board design. Shanghai is the headquarters of the "mobility" division of Lenovo, which builds the laptop motherboards for IBM.


but will also provide an important role in the validation and testing of AMD's broad range of current and future microprocessors.

Right -- AMD has outsourced some of their CPU validation. AMD microprocessors are designed in Austin, Texas and Sunnyvale, California. Validation holds an unfortunate position of low-prestige in the microprocessor industry (I'm a microprocessor architect for one of the two aforementioned companies).


The new quad core Opteron is code named "Shanghai".

Actually, AMD's new K8L quad-core is code-named "Barcelona." "Budapest" is platform tweaks (HyperTransport 3) of Barcelona, and "Shanghai" is the 2-core chop of Budapest. AMD, or course, has no facilities in Barcelona or Budapest...

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTE3NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

But even so, the codename has nothing to do with where it's designed or manufactured. Intel has a McKinley processor, named after the mountain range in Alaska, and I can assure you it wasn't designed or manufactured in Alaska :)

Evan
12-14-2006, 05:44 PM
So, this then supports the contention that the Chinese are not capable of producing quality products? Last I heard about 1/2 of the chip fabs on the planet are in Taiwan with new ones being built on the mainland.

Mainland China has chip fabs owned by NEC, National Semi, Motorola and quite a few others with many more planned.

abn
12-15-2006, 03:51 AM
I've had good luck with steel products out of Brazil...from SPS Unbrako fasteners to the forged knives in my kitchen.