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Your Old Dog
01-01-2007, 11:29 AM
I finally got around to getting me the Drill Doctor. I got the 750X because they didn't have anything bigger. :D It seems to be doing a real number on my bits. How long does it take and how many pounds of old drill bits does it take to get the hang of this thing. I did determine my "cam" needed cleaned up to operate smoother as it had mold marks on it that telegraphed to the bit.

I know a lot of you do them by hand and I can too but not nearly as accurate as an indexed device. To get both edges to cut instead of only the leading edge of two you really need some kind of "stop" such as found in the drill doctor.

http://www.raymondswan.com/dp/DrillDoc.jpg

J Tiers
01-01-2007, 11:39 AM
I have one of them.

Don't get me started...... I think the thing is pretty stupid. It worked well for a few bits, then it started to get "funny", and has not done well since.

I followed the directions, I know the "sound", don't even try to tell me I don't know how to use it. I GOT good drills out of it...... but no more.

It just isn't a precision device. A quick look at the point splitter will REALLY tell you that, it is 100% dependent on your "feel" to get it close to right.... of course mine leaves a nice squareish point on the end, with the "back-off" outside of that..... :rolleyes:

Even the regular sharpening part is not precision. Their "alignment jig" is a complete joke,,, a couple pieces of thin spring stock....

Mine now does a reasonably "ok" job on anything thet is big enough for me to easily do by hand... Little stuff is totally inconsistent. Do the SAME THING TWICE, get one drill that is almost acceptable, then the next is sharpened with the relief BACKWARDS so it rides on the BACK of the point.....

NAW, and they had the nerve to tell me mine was one of their best date code ranges.....

Isn't THAT scary..... wouldn't they be all the same????

Can't tell you not to waste your money, you already did.... sucked in just like me.......

OOOOHHHH..... IT GETS WORSE.........

You have the NEW AND IMPROVED one....... If THAT one STILL has the problems then it's bad....... They promised the new one would be SO MUCH BETTER.....

Feh.... they are a bunch of schlemeils..... don't be a schlemazel.....

nheng
01-01-2007, 11:43 AM
Wouldn't that thing work a lot better with, say, an ER collet holding the bit much more securely?

Never mind :) I just read the rest of JT's post.

japcas
01-01-2007, 11:44 AM
My experience has been the opposite of J Tiers. I have the old 750 and it does a real good job for me. It seems to grind very accurately and I've ground quite a few bits on it. If they are messed up real bad though, dress them up by hand on a bench grinder before taking them to the drill doctor to do the final touch up. Does it do as good as our big drill grinder at work, NO! But for me at home it does a better job on small bits than I can, and I grind tools at work all the time. Your mileage may vary.

JRouche
01-01-2007, 11:53 AM
I have one of the older 750 models. I works great for what I need.

I cant grind a bit by hand as fast or as precise as I can on the DD.

I dont regrind anything under 1/16". Even a 1/16" bit is iffy. Cheap as those are better off just buying new ones.

JTiers is right. Feel has a lot to do with it. The more you use it the more that feel gets better.

A lite hand is gonna give better results than heavy handedness.

I like mine..JRouche

Oh, and the headgear used WILL make a difference. Try stainless wrap some time, you will be suprised by your results.

John R
01-01-2007, 12:51 PM
My 750 works OK ....but for large drills it takes an awful lot of turns
John R

topct
01-01-2007, 12:56 PM
One thing I found out on mine was not to over tighten the chuck.

Over tightening causes the fingers to twist, changing the way the drill is indexed.

You can see it happen if you look down the drill and watch the fingers as you tighten it.

wierdscience
01-01-2007, 12:57 PM
Hate the things,I do wish I had a drill grinder for very small bits 1/16"<.

My nieghbor bought one of the 750's,his didn't look so good either until he figured out what he was doing wrong.I showed him how to do it freehand and his sits on the shelf now.

Zuesdawg
01-01-2007, 01:23 PM
Ive been reading about them, thanks for bringing it up.


I gotta ask... is that an aluminum foil covered hat you are wearing in the pic ?

Your Old Dog
01-01-2007, 01:35 PM
I gotta ask... is that an aluminum foil covered hat you are wearing in the pic ?

Yes sir it is. I've gone over to the other side where the nation that has nutured and protected me for my entire life is concerned. As a nation we have no right to feel good about anything.
http://www.raymondswan.com/dp/tinfoil%20hat.jpg

Thanks for the tips guys, I think I might have gotten enough help to straighten it out. They added an adjustment bolt to my model which now that I think about it, garuentees the indexing will be off if you change it. They say it exist to set the "depth" of cutting on the bit but maybe they didn't realize it also changes the alignment of the face of the bit to the wheel. I'm going to see if I can figure out how to align it without the springs. I was changing it on each bit to try to get the depth set right, which I believe was screwing up the alignment process.

torker
01-01-2007, 02:31 PM
Don't mean to hijack your thread YOD but has anyone used one of these? (the Harmony drill grinder)
http://www.moderntool.com/grinders%20new.htm
Russ

Carld
01-01-2007, 02:46 PM
Back in the '60's I bought a simple drill sharpener from Sears and made a complete system with base, motor, side face grinding wheel and the drill sharpener mounted on it. I have used it since and find it does a great job if you understand how it is supposed to work. It is a swing arm type sharpener. I still prefer to sharpen by hand with a headband magnifier, drill sharpening gauge and bench grinder.

spope14
01-01-2007, 02:54 PM
I guess I do not get the Aluminum hat reference....

ligito
01-01-2007, 03:26 PM
I guess I do not get the Aluminum hat reference....

Then, don't go near a Drill Doctor:D

I have an industrial supply place a block from my shop.
They mentioned that it is generally not profitable to resharpen any drill under 1/4 in.
They sell drill bits and I'd rather buy the new ones than sharpen the old ones.
But then, I don't know how to sharpen drill bits.
I meekly admit that I bought a Drill Doctor 750X and have yet to use it.
I will probably try it out on some of my bits that are longer thab jobber length, as they are not that cheap to buy.

Rustybolt
01-01-2007, 03:51 PM
Had a DD in the shop for years and never had any trouble with it as long as directions were followed. Mostly got it because I had a hard time seeing the smaller sizes. I can still sharpen the larger sizes by hand faster than a sharpener can do it.

Your Old Dog
01-01-2007, 04:13 PM
I have found the error of my ways! I just sharpend every bit in the shop that needed it right down to 3/32 and up to 5/8's in about 1 hours time and they are razor sharp. It works great!

I was not noticing that the chuck actually has two referance points on it. One is a white dot which is aligned with the pin that rides on the cam. The other referance point(s) are 90% from the white dot on the cam. They are like long thin guides that engage some slots in the bottom of the aligning side of the tool.

As for the new bolt added to the 750X to allow you to set depth, I was using it too extreme. After reading the instructions it says to only turn it minutely!

At any rate, I'm a happy camper with my brand new $114 ebay Drill Dr. It will make a nice addition to the shop, no more hand grinding them trying to get the sides even so it uses both sides of the bit to cut with thereby making them stay sharp longer. Thanks guys for the tips, it got me to spend more time analizeing what was going on. BTW, someone mentioned the springs were a joke, actually I find they work very well to align the bit "once" I found the right alignment mark on the chuck.

malbenbut
01-01-2007, 04:32 PM
I find that a lead hat works much better than alminium.
MBB

Your Old Dog
01-01-2007, 04:43 PM
I find that a lead hat works much better than alminium.
MBB

Well I freely admit I haven't much experiance with either. Having only just gone over to the other side I have a lot to learn. But judging by some recent post here that ended up going political I'm convinced this is a premier learning environment.

GadgetBuilder
01-01-2007, 04:55 PM
Hate the things,I do wish I had a drill grinder for very small bits 1/16"<.

<snip>



Derek Brown's 4 Facet Sharpener works well for small drills and, depending on the size of pin vise you make, can work for drills up to 1/4":
http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/DrillSharp.html#Four%20Facet

It quickly sharpens small drills (up to #42) -- a couple of minutes each, where most of the time is to get the drill oriented accurately in the pin vise.

It can be made mostly from scrap but takes a day or so of machining and head scratching to build.

John

Carld
01-01-2007, 05:32 PM
Radio repairmen sometimes work in a grounded wire cage to keep stray radio waves away from the equipment they are repairing. The use of the aluminum cover hat is to keep damaging radio waves from your mind thus enabling one to live much longer and smarter:D .

Timleech
01-01-2007, 05:56 PM
It can be made mostly from scrap but takes a day or so of machining and head scratching to build.

John

That can be awkward with a lead hat on.

Tim

J Tiers
01-01-2007, 06:45 PM
Had a DD in the shop for years and never had any trouble with it as long as directions were followed.


I might repeat that I sharpened a LOT of drills with my DD (an older non-"X") and was happy.

CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY I "know how to use it"...... and I followed directions closely

But after those initial 50 or so drills, (yes I turned over the wheel after a while), it "went bad" and has never done a decent job since.

DD could not explain it. New collets did not help. Doing the "backwards turn" to aline collet jaws did not help....

They didn't think a new sharpening tube would help, so I didn't throw any money at that.

Apparently you can get a "good one" or a "bad one"....... I know which mine is (probably soon to be "was"..... I'm tired of looking at the useless thing)

Wayne02
01-01-2007, 06:55 PM
Well I freely admit I haven't much experiance with either. Having only just gone over to the other side I have a lot to learn. But judging by some recent post here that ended up going political I'm convinced this is a premier learning environment.
ROFL, I sure hope you never loose your sense of humor. When that happens it is truly time to head for the hills. ;)

Wayne02
01-01-2007, 06:59 PM
I have a dd750 that is new in the box. Purchased it about 6 years ago I believe. Fixing to get ready to think about maybe using it any day now... yes I am.

Word on the street is the early 750's had some sort of recall (I think because of a malfunctioning chuck?). Anybody know anything about this???

Tin Falcon
01-01-2007, 07:11 PM
I have one of the older DD 500s have thought about getting one of the new and improved ones. I have not used the old one as much as I thought I would. I have a couple #3 coffee cans full of "dull bits" I salvaged from a shop I worked in . It works great for split point bits. One of the shops I worked in we used 7/16 split point bits to pilot holes in 4150 rc 35-38 the drill doctor was to only way to sharpen split points.
Tin

J Tiers
01-01-2007, 08:44 PM
\ It works great for split point bits. One of the shops I worked in we used 7/16 split point bits to pilot holes in 4150 rc 35-38 the drill doctor was to only way to sharpen split points.
Tin

How did you get it to do that right? Mine "misses the point", and even if working well, it is totally a matter of how long you touch off on the wheel.... no limits, stops, or any other means for positive control.....



BTW, as for the AFDB..... it has been shown that the deflector hat INTENSIFIES certain wavelengths inside the cavity formed...... Stanford engineering students did a study of it for fun...

HTRN
01-01-2007, 09:00 PM
It's basically a cheapy version of a Darex, after all, Darex is the parent company. However unlike a Darex which is a joy to use, they went el cheapo injection molded plastic, instead of machined components. The concept is sound, it's the execution that's wanting.

Once again, the horror stories told have reinforced my goal of getting an honest to god used Darex, instead of wasting time money and energy on Drill Doctors.


Radio repairmen sometimes work in a grounded wire cage to keep stray radio waves away from the equipment they are repairing. The use of the aluminum cover hat is to keep damaging radio waves from your mind thus enabling one to live much longer and smarter:D .

It's called a Faraday Cage, and unless its completely closed and grounded it's pointless.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/paulbubel/tinfoil-hat.jpg

:D

BTW, tinfoil hats don't shield you, they actually amplify certain frequency bands allocated to the US government - linky (http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/) - in other words, you're giving them a STRONGER signal.:p


HTRN

Tin Falcon
01-01-2007, 09:03 PM
How did you get it to do that right? Mine "misses the point", and even if working well, it is totally a matter of how long you touch off on the wheel.... no limits, stops, or any other means for positive control.....


Not sure
Follow instuctions?
Act smarter than the drill bit?
Hold nose at correct angle in proportion to desired angle on bit?

Did it with no trouble though.
Tin

plastikosmd
01-01-2007, 09:06 PM
it seems i have read this same thread before somewhere...then somewhere else...and somewhere else...:) there are lovers and haters...love mine..:)

John Stevenson
01-01-2007, 09:47 PM
Hate the things,I do wish I had a drill grinder for very small bits 1/16"<.



Up until a couple of months ago I used to buy brand new decent drills and regrind them from new as 4 facet ones.
I can now buy these from Germany so I only have to regrind when worn.
A decent small grinder is between $12,000 and $20,000 new for small drills.
They still sell them so there must be a demand for them.

.

AZSORT
01-01-2007, 09:52 PM
I quit dinking with the goofy mechanism on the DD. Took the covers of the fool thing and just grind them by eye on the nice diamond wheel using the corner of the opening as a tool rest.

Your Old Dog
01-01-2007, 10:03 PM
Act smarter than the drill bit?
Tin

ROFLAMO!! :D :D absolutly correct! "Become the drill bit" as in zen sharpening!

Actually JTiers I might be able to help you, with or without the tin hat. I think your politics are more conservative than many around here so the tinfoil hat won't be necessary. But as I've said, I've gone over to the other side and need the hat.

Can you identify ** 4 ** index points on your chuck? There should be 2 white dots used for actual sharpening located 180 degrees from each other and two unpainted longer strips of plastic that look more like strength enforcement for the chuck but are acutally guides located 90 degrees from the dots. These fit into either the 118 or the 135 degree slots on the bottom of the female part of the alignment part. I'm thinking this might be your problem because as you described it, you were getting the exact same problems I was before " I saw the light" !

I have also found that more important then pushing down while turning the bit is to concentrate "more" on holding the cam upagainst the cam from dot to dot. Doing so will insure that the chuck will be propelled to the grinding wheel with enough force to make contact. After about my 10th drill bit I didn't even have to think about it. I straighten up my hat, start rotating the chuck while holding the cam upagainst the pin and a very slight downward pressure all at the same time does it fine.

JRouche
01-01-2007, 11:21 PM
It works great for split point bits.


I also can split the point just fine with mine. I dont split the points though, I dont like the cut of those. Too aggressive of a cut.

I do regrind my dull bits from 118 to 135 with the grinder. JRouche

Your Old Dog
01-01-2007, 11:28 PM
I also can split the point just fine with mine. I dont split the points though, I dont like the cut of those. Too aggressive of a cut.

I do regrind my dull bits from 118 to 135 with the grinder. JRouche

Can someone tell me are the split points used more for drilling hard metals? If they drill faster I'm not too sure I'd like that on softer metals. I would expect them to grab too much.

J Tiers
01-01-2007, 11:34 PM
I have the older model. I don't know if those items are on the old chucks, although I do recall something like them on the new chucks they sent me.

Don't forget, I GOT GOOD DRILL BITS..... for a while...... I was happy as a clam in mud.

I got things seated right for alinement, and figured out how to "cheat" the alinement for non-standard helix drill bits as well. It was fine, while it lasted.

I don't "hate" the DD. I'd be delighted if I could get mine back to "good".

I have to admit, I never did get a good split point, they split any old way and left that weird square. Something was wrong, but I didn't try any until much later, could be all one problem..

No, I knew how to work it, etc. My problem is that somewhere, a locating device or whatever went awry, and I went from pretty happy to "what the **** is going on here?". No obvious reason for the change, new collets no difference, flip wheel no difference.... etc..

Now, I would have been fine if DD could have helped me get it back to "right".... But they had NO IDEA what was up, and could NOT help me get the thing working again.

So much of it is "feel" with no feedback visually to help...... They even say in the (old) manual that if you "spark out" you will get reverse relief on smaller bits....... WTF? Either it does hold everything right, and cam the moves in and out, or it don't......

And, THEN, I really looked the thing over.... I looked at the drill vs the wheel with that snap cover off....

I noticed that the collet and its tube allowed so much "rattle room" that a smaller drill bit could be moved from completely "off" the wheel, to a position way past correct "on" the wheel..... There was about 1/8 to 3/16 side-to-side movement at the drill tip..... RATTLE movement, no force applied at all.....NOT movement due to the cam..... nor room for the cam to work....

DD couldn't suggest anything for that either, and seemed to think that was "normal"...... WTF? if it is that loose, what's the use of the alinement and special collets etc?

It is THAT stuff, that DD had no clue about, that got me "going" about it....

The Darex folks seem to have "cut DD loose", without real technical support by folks who understand the process. It was like talking to a phone response technician...... the "technicians" knew what they were told, and no more....

So, one day I will take another look and study the geometry of it, and see if there is some way to salvage it.... I won't get any help from DD, I found that out.

........
A "conservative"? mebbe.... I'm for conservation........ I doubt anyone could guess my political views..... I'm way left on some stuff, and way NOT left on other stuff....

It must be the hat...... I'll try that next, that reverberating microwave stuff must interact with the diamond wheel somehow.

Shaidorsai
01-02-2007, 12:03 AM
I have had one of the older DD 750's for many years. When I first got it, I thought it was a POS. And I was right! After a very pleasant conversation with a very nice lady on the Darex factory help line, they had me send it back to them, at their expense. They returned it promptly, and working perfectly. Seems a spacer bushing, or something, got left out in assembly. The nice lady (turns out she was one of their product engineers) even called to make sure I knew how to use it properly, and was getting good results. Been very happy with it ever since. A very good customer service experience.

BTW, once upon a time many hardhats were made out of Aluminum, especially in the mining industry. They don't do that anymore, they are all plastic, something about bumping into unseen overhead electric wires caused them to be banned. A shield, either electrical or esoterical only works if it is grounded. In this case the only path to ground runs right through your a**, passing through your heart along the way. Not a great situation.

madman
01-02-2007, 12:48 AM
Foil Hat (i think theres a website run by people who think the government reads there minds / Drill Doctor? Learn to sharpen drills the old school way and throw that cheap chinese **** away. Support hands on skills. If no one buys any of em theyll end up with plenty in china where they belong.

Dawai
01-02-2007, 01:36 AM
Mike:

You evidently missed the plans listed by the gadget man..
I got us a copy. I'll try to trade the vision camera system software as payment back to the yahoo group.

J Tiers
01-02-2007, 09:49 AM
Drill Doctor? Learn to sharpen drills the old school way and throw that cheap chinese **** away. Support hands on skills. If no one buys any of em theyll end up with plenty in china where they belong.

Madman...........

I think you are onto something there


My DD says "Made in USA with pride by Darex".....

I bet the new ones that work better are made in china. If mine HAD been made in china, it probably would work right. :D

It's that "pride". If I could clean that outta there, it might be fixed. :D


Incidentally, The DD sharpened "OK" when new. It was NOT as good as the "toolroom sharpened" drills I have..... they cut better and more evenly. Even the DD didn't always get two good curls off the drill.


As far as the foil hat, google "AFDB"

Your Old Dog
01-02-2007, 12:44 PM
As far as the foil hat, google "AFDB"

Good site! Lot of good information there. Now that I've crossed over to the otherside politically I don't want any folks who might be evesdropping in on my private thoughts that I blame my government for everything from my being overweight to all the worlds problems and maybe even some worlds we don't know exist yet because my government sat by and did nothing. I think this tin hat's gonna help me maintain my privacy a lot :D

Swarf&Sparks
01-02-2007, 12:51 PM
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
ROFLMAO
But what about my old IBM system 36?
What happens to my communication with the mother ship if I'm not running linux?

pcarpenter
01-02-2007, 01:07 PM
I have an older style Drill Dr. and love it. I even knew how to sharpen drills by hand, but if you think about it, you cannot sharpen by hand with enough precision to guarantee that both flutes cut. By definition, cut depth for a drill is probably a few thousandths and the cutting edges of the flutes must be within that variation of one another for both to do their job. Making a single flute cutter out of them by grinding them imperfectly means they go dull sooner and also should make them more prone to drilling oversize holes by only seeing force on one side of center.

I tend to think that one of the problems folks have with a drill doctor is going to be inherent to the design. It uses a solid, diamond impregnated grinding drum. It has to use this to make it so that you don't put a groove in it where the drill contacts.

As Evan so clearly stated here once before, carbon (as in steel) is a solvent for diamonds. They are best saved for use on carbide. Still, a regular carborundum wheel would just not work for a self-contained device like this that is designed to be used without constant wheel truing.

I think the way to make them last longer is to be sure to rough bit points to the correct angle (when needed....especially the first time) by hand as was already stated. Using the diamond wheel to take a lot off a bit could easily cut its life to a fraction of what it should be.

Paul

Dawai
01-02-2007, 02:57 PM
If ya see me wearing a tin foil hat and clutching my flat top and a bandolier of magazines, evacuate the area rapidly.

All jokes aside, we are subject to RF from all sources, one being sunspots which are terrible at the moment. I was reading that astronauts traveling to the moon without any break in the dosage might return quite sick. A mars mission, well cook, shake and bake.

I think I want a quorn, not just one, but a cnc'ed one. A microscope-usb-camera to align the bits to the wheel with a forced air cleaning system on it.

I got it about half built.

ligito
01-02-2007, 09:34 PM
Up until a couple of months ago I used to buy brand new decent drills and regrind them from new as 4 facet ones.
I can now buy these from Germany so I only have to regrind when worn.
A decent small grinder is between $12,000 and $20,000 new for small drills.
They still sell them so there must be a demand for them.

.

They also sell snake oil, when there is a demand for it.

Would it help, if someone made new metal drill holders for the Drill Dr. 750X?

seatlanta
01-04-2007, 11:44 PM
Gee. I don't have any problems with my old Drill Doctor. It actually sharpens my drill bits.

After reading all the posts, I now realize I must be doing something wrong!

James (seatlanta)

Your Old Dog
01-05-2007, 07:19 AM
Is this the beloved Darex that is so highly spoken of?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-DAREX-M5B-PRECISION-DRILL-SHARPENER_W0QQitemZ130065152417QQihZ003QQcategoryZ 104240QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Scishopguy
01-05-2007, 12:24 PM
YOD,

I noticed in the pix that they drill point did not clean up and left a little flat at the cutting edge. They don't tell you in the instructions that you have to loosen the collet, put the collet back in the setup jig, and push the bit back down to the stop, and then continue to grind until it cleans up. If you have a broken or chipped drill, I found that it makes life much easier to do a quick hand sharpening job on the bench grinder before finishing it off in the DD. Big bits will need to be reset several times to get it to finish out and they will take a good bit longer to do. A 3/4" drill can take as long as 15 minutes to sharpen and that is if it is just needing a touch up. However, it is worth the effort as it will cut like factory (or better) when you get done.

Your Old Dog
01-05-2007, 05:15 PM
YOD,

I noticed in the pix that they drill point did not clean up and left a little flat at the cutting edge. They don't tell you in the instructions that you have to loosen the collet, put the collet back in the setup jig, and push the bit back down to the stop, and then continue to grind until it cleans up. If you have a broken or chipped drill, I found that it makes life much easier to do a quick hand sharpening job on the bench grinder before finishing it off in the DD. Big bits will need to be reset several times to get it to finish out and they will take a good bit longer to do. A 3/4" drill can take as long as 15 minutes to sharpen and that is if it is just needing a touch up. However, it is worth the effort as it will cut like factory (or better) when you get done.

I'm not "sparking out" when I sharpen. I just turn an equal number of times per side and keep track and stop when I see fresh grindline across the face.

The reason for the flat spot was casting marks on the cam causing it to hang up on the pin when I tried to rotate it. I sanded it all smooth and it's fine now.

HTRN
01-05-2007, 08:06 PM
Is this the beloved Darex that is so highly spoken of?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-DAREX-M5B-PRECISION-DRILL-SHARPENER_W0QQitemZ130065152417QQihZ003QQcategoryZ 104240QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That's the old style. This is the one I lust after:
http://www.darex.com/main/images/XT3000/XT3000_array_lg.jpg

Here's a video (http://www.darex.com/videos/asf/xt/XT3000v.html) of the XT-3000 in use. Unfortunately, it's $3200:(

Range is from .118 to 1&3/16"(with accessory large drill adapter).

It can sharpen Bradpoints, step drills, Single edge countersinks, Weldon countersinks,

They also make a cheaper, simpler machine called the V-390("only" $1100!), that doesn't do countersinks splitpoints or spot drills, and the range is limited to 1/8"-3/4"

Darex's Website. (http://www.darex.com/main/index.php)


HTRN

Evan
01-05-2007, 08:08 PM
$3200 sure will buy a lot of brand new drill bits and countersinks.

BadDog
01-05-2007, 08:20 PM
Well, for good or bad, I just bought this. Now I just need to learn to use it. My DD750 works fine for moderate size bits, and I gather this works VERY well for bits under 1/4"...

http://www.members.cox.net/thebaddog/junk/grinder2.jpg
http://www.members.cox.net/thebaddog/junk/grinder1.jpg

HTRN
01-05-2007, 08:41 PM
$3200 sure will buy a lot of brand new drill bits and countersinks.

Not when they're coated carbide... Carbide drills shatter when they get dull.

First place I worked at went through $20K worth of tooling a year, a significant portion of which is drills, and they only had 4 people working there.. $3200 is chump change for a even a small production shop.


HTRN

Evan
01-05-2007, 11:47 PM
$3200 is chump change for a even a small production shop.

This is about home shops, I thought.

Your Old Dog
01-05-2007, 11:52 PM
Boy is that some shop ambiance or what? LOL You can't never have too much shop ambiance!!

TECHSHOP
01-06-2007, 12:21 AM
This Drill Docter is almost as much maligned/loved as the Quorn!

I have posted in here that I found the DD very suited to sharpening Hammer Drill and SDS style(s) bits. Haven't used it in my "precision machine shop", yet.

I think that in many ways the DD was a "user failure" because of its marketing succes. You had a "well known" manufacturer of sharpening tools, place a machine on the retail market at ~ 1/10th the "price" of their other machines, and the "demand" far exceeded the supply (hence the "bad lots"). The Darex sharpening "method" is "well proven" in the top of the line offerings, the little DD had mighty big shoes to fill in the minds of the "home shop machinst" that had known of or used a Darex. At least that is my view, having worked part time for a now gone company that sold the "original" two "series" of DD (the ones sold in cardboard boxes, and the "later" ones in the blue plastic cases, id est pre-"X" models) to the public.

J Tiers
01-06-2007, 01:04 AM
Probably true, Techshop.....

Of course, I bought mine at a discount from J&L, new, which probably proves it was not at a time of scarcity. But no telling when it was made, they didn't tell me that.

Some "dilution" of the brand I think occurred due to the little hobbyist sharpeners that use the cardboard backed Dremel type abrasive sleeve, instead of the diamond wheel.

But I can vouch for there being bad ones of the 500/750..... even if mine did start out being the nicest thing since sliced bread and only went bad later.....

HTRN
01-07-2007, 04:10 AM
This is about home shops, I thought.

It's an industrial tool, with probably 99.99% of their customers being commercial users, and they often have budgets that can buy a new car every year. If a $3200 tool can save you $8K a year in costs...

Bridgeports are discussed here on almost a weekly basis, but I don't see anybody here moaning over the price of a new one(around $15k from Hardinge).


HTRN

Dawai
01-07-2007, 04:47 AM
I can do a cnc'ed version of the quorn mucho cheaper than I can buy a quorn.
WHY is that? AND I can set my foundry back up cheaper than buying castings.

I have been working on the software in my head for about a week now.. The thing really needs two planes of rotary motion and two axis of linear motion.

The lil 4" rotary table I have cnc'ed is pretty crappy.. meaning it should have been built instead of purchased from a china builder. THE lil xy slides I have powered is pretty crappy meaning it should have been built instead of purchased. I had a tool on it on the lathe as a ball cutter. It would do inside and outside radius. BUT the rotary has slop in it allowing chatter.. so you gotta cut really slow.

Things bumping around in my skull?.(other than bats in the belfry) Large degree wheels /encoders on rotarys axis.. Chinese calipers on linear slides to bump in drill a predetermined exact amount. Make it work in manual before I turn Mach3 loose.

A multiple facet drill is what I am lustin for.. Something you know will throw two curls, either a huge magnifier or usb microscope to align cutting edges.

Norman Atkinson
01-07-2007, 05:38 AM
David,
In my opinion, the way forward is a modified Stent but with the Quorn bits added. OK, I am going to get flamed, extradited, shoo-ed boo-ed and generally pissed at, but that's me!

The Stent- and that is the original from Blackgates only requires one casting.
The others can come from stock metal. My other bits came from a knackered old surface plate which came from a bloke who had ----- fabricated his Quorn from welded Mild Steel sections.

And a Happy New Year to ALL our readers-- apart from the Yahoo Quorn Group!

Norm

John Stevenson
01-07-2007, 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stevenson
Up until a couple of months ago I used to buy brand new decent drills and regrind them from new as 4 facet ones.
I can now buy these from Germany so I only have to regrind when worn.
A decent small grinder is between $12,000 and $20,000 new for small drills.
They still sell them so there must be a demand for them.

.



They also sell snake oil, when there is a demand for it.

When you are drilling up to 14,000 2mm holes in steel plates per day there is also a demand for them.
It's not the price of the drill you are trying to save it's the price of lost time and job revenue you are trying to guarantee.
Two hours into a job and you have lost a drill costing $2, two hours work costing $60, material costing $10 and lost revenue of $300.

So one decent reground drill can save $372

.

Dawai
01-07-2007, 11:50 AM
OKAY...

Not been addressed..

A drill has a "forward" feed rate per revolutions like a tap. This forward feedrate is determined by end shape, cutting materiel type, coolant and possibly phase of the moon?.

BUT, I found looking under a microscope, to get two curls of perfection, you must have one side, one curl swarf thickness lower than the other, but this pulls or it seems to in stainless? SO is it my imagination.

Along comes the old plantation drill with the big crank on the side, a drill bit was a sharpened flat stock that Pressure twisted into the stock. When I saw that drill I could envision the poor guy cranking that wheel with the sweat dripping.. It has a pressure per rotation device built in.

As a tool junkie, I wanted it in my shop.. I do think I posted pictures a year or more back.

BobWarfield
01-07-2007, 12:49 PM
It's basically a cheapy version of a Darex, after all, Darex is the parent company. However unlike a Darex which is a joy to use, they went el cheapo injection molded plastic, instead of machined components. The concept is sound, it's the execution that's wanting.

Once again, the horror stories told have reinforced my goal of getting an honest to god used Darex, instead of wasting time money and energy on Drill Doctors.



It's called a Faraday Cage, and unless its completely closed and grounded it's pointless.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/paulbubel/tinfoil-hat.jpg

:D

BTW, tinfoil hats don't shield you, they actually amplify certain frequency bands allocated to the US government - linky (http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/) - in other words, you're giving them a STRONGER signal.:p


HTRN

Say, that looks like a young Hillary Clinton in disguise right behind that guy!

I think its all part of a vast left wing conspiracy!

BW

J Tiers
01-07-2007, 11:54 PM
OKAY...

Not been addressed..

A drill has a "forward" feed rate per revolutions like a tap. This forward feedrate is determined by end shape, cutting materiel type, coolant and possibly phase of the moon?.

BUT, I found looking under a microscope, to get two curls of perfection, you must have one side, one curl swarf thickness lower than the other, but this pulls or it seems to in stainless? SO is it my imagination.



That should be automatic if the two edges are level with each other.... Each will be taking a cut, on opposite sides of the center.

Like a two-leaded screw.