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View Full Version : Clausing 4900 (4913) Rebuild continued...



kennyd4110
01-14-2007, 08:47 PM
as some may remember when I introduced myself, I am in the process of rebuilding my Clausing 4902 10"x24" lathe.
I just added 22 or so pictures to my web album that can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/kdeckster/Clausing4900

I hope you enjoy the pictures. I am sure I will have some questions soon!

Before Picture:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/kennyd4110/lathe/lathesmall.jpg

Present picture:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/kennyd4110/lathe/DSC02675.jpg

bhjones
01-14-2007, 08:57 PM
I really like the look of these machines. Same for the heavy 12" and 14" Logan lathes from the 60's. Big, blocky and all business.

Well done.

lane
01-14-2007, 09:34 PM
Job Well done Looks Real Good

motomoron
01-14-2007, 09:46 PM
That looks excellent! what kind of paint is that, and how was it applied? Also, where'd you find the lathe? I know that Norman Machine Tool in Baltimore has a number of them in inventory now, and they're just the lathe I want.

Nice work.

JRouche
01-14-2007, 09:46 PM
Kenny do really nice work. Very complete job. I am impressed. JRouche

Fasttrack
01-15-2007, 12:38 AM
You don't want one of those clausing piece-o-junk lathes

Buy a good chineese one and i'll take the clausing off your hands for you (once you finish restoring it of course - the...err junkyard...doesnt want a shabby looking lathe) :D

Forrest Addy
01-15-2007, 01:25 AM
I like to see old good machinery treated well, cleaned up and put back into commission. My hat's off to anyone who ressurects a great ol' hunk of iron from the foundry ladle, gives it a good home, and gets years of good use from it.

Rant, alert!!

However there is a matter of language. We are not using the right words. The dictionary's most applicable definition of "rebuild:" is: "to repair, esp. to dismantle and reassemble with new parts: to rebuild an old car." Industry has in the past used words like "rebuild" "recondition" almost interchangeably and many fine lines of arguement has grown to distinguish one from the other only to peter out when yet another consideration surfaces. Words have driven mighty corporations to lawsuits when contracting parties differed in their contracted obligations when terms are unsupported by definitions.

The wording I used to use when I was contracting for the rebuilding of machine tools for the Navy is speficied by then DIPEC but is now succeeded by some other orgizational monicker. That definition was (partial words here): "'Rebuild' is here defined as: the contractor shall dissassemble the equipment to the last bolt, all parts shall be non-injuriously cleaned ot adherant materials and debris and inspected. Those parts damaged, broken, or worn shall be refurbished or replaced. The working parts, ways, electrical systems, motors, coolant systems, hydraulics, and all other components assenblies, systems, appurtenances, attachments, and accessories shall be restored to like new accuracy, longevity, and operability. The parts shall be re-assembled, fitted, lubricated as neede, and adjusted to restore alignments and operability. The machine shall be prepared to sound paint, spot primed, filled, and sanded as applicable then re-painted with a coating system that meets or exceeds that originally provided by the manufacturer.... The equipment when complete shall comply with the original manufacturer's specifications and when inspected at final acceptance shall meet the requirements for accuracy, geometry, and all other attributes entered in the acceptance criteria of the run-off sheet..." This definition has met several legal tests in a administrative law courts and allowed the Navy to prevail in disputes with contractors.

Not to rain on your parade Kenny, you are doing well, but a even a very thorough cleaning, inspection, adjustment, and painting is just that. Even the most thorough cleaning, minor repair, and re-paint is not a rebuild if the bearings have not been replaced, the ways re-machined, scraped and re-fitted, lead screws and nuts re-cut/replaced to new condition, accuracy and backlash, and so-on down a long list including a tailstock quill refitting where the bore is either bushed or honed to an accurate cylinder and a new replacement quill is fitted and installed.

I bet Kenny's lathe will finish up as a dandy machine tool, but unless all that formidable work list is complete he can't rightly use the word "rebuild" as a descriptor for his work and neither can I or anyone else unless we comply with the intent of the word's definition.

bhjones
01-15-2007, 01:29 AM
Kenny, what technique did you use to make the exposed metal bits shine?

kennyd4110
01-15-2007, 07:38 AM
That looks excellent! what kind of paint is that, and how was it applied? Also, where'd you find the lathe? I know that Norman Machine Tool in Baltimore has a number of them in inventory now, and they're just the lathe I want.

Nice work.

I am using the "Tractor & Implement" enamel from TSC (Tractor Supply Company). Ford Gray is the color. And yes, I am using a brush and the little mini rollers from Home Depot. If it was spring, I probably would have sprayed it (at least the large peices) with my HVLP turbine setup outside. I have had good luck with this paint before, that's why I chose to use it for this.

I bought the lathe locally in Columbia, MD. It was advertised on the PM site.

kennyd4110
01-15-2007, 07:40 AM
Kenny, what technique did you use to make the exposed metal bits shine?

I just used Schotchbrite pads (marroon) and kerosene. The rust in the pictures is just surface rust, so it cleaned up nicely with alot of elbow grease.

kennyd4110
01-15-2007, 07:51 AM
I like to see old good machinery treated well, cleaned up and put back into commission. My hat's off to anyone who ressurects a great ol' hunk of iron from the foundry ladle, gives it a good home, and gets years of good use from it.

Rant, alert!!

However there is a matter of language. We are not using the right words. The dictionary's most applicable definition of "rebuild:" is: "to repair, esp. to dismantle and reassemble with new parts: to rebuild an old car." Industry has in the past used words like "rebuild" "recondition" almost interchangeably and many fine lines of arguement has grown to distinguish one from the other only to peter out when yet another consideration surfaces. Words have driven mighty corporations to lawsuits when contracting parties differed in their contracted obligations when terms are unsupported by definitions.

The wording I used to use when I was contracting for the rebuilding of machine tools for the Navy is speficied by then DIPEC but is now succeeded by some other orgizational monicker. That definition was (partial words here): "'Rebuild' is here defined as: the contractor shall dissassemble the equipment to the last bolt, all parts shall be non-injuriously cleaned ot adherant materials and debris and inspected. Those parts damaged, broken, or worn shall be refurbished or replaced. The working parts, ways, electrical systems, motors, coolant systems, hydraulics, and all other components assenblies, systems, appurtenances, attachments, and accessories shall be restored to like new accuracy, longevity, and operability. The parts shall be re-assembled, fitted, lubricated as neede, and adjusted to restore alignments and operability. The machine shall be prepared to sound paint, spot primed, filled, and sanded as applicable then re-painted with a coating system that meets or exceeds that originally provided by the manufacturer.... The equipment when complete shall comply with the original manufacturer's specifications and when inspected at final acceptance shall meet the requirements for accuracy, geometry, and all other attributes entered in the acceptance criteria of the run-off sheet..." This definition has met several legal tests in a administrative law courts and allowed the Navy to prevail in disputes with contractors.

Not to rain on your parade Kenny, you are doing well, but a even a very thorough cleaning, inspection, adjustment, and painting is just that. Even the most thorough cleaning, minor repair, and re-paint is not a rebuild if the bearings have not been replaced, the ways re-machined, scraped and re-fitted, lead screws and nuts re-cut/replaced to new condition, accuracy and backlash, and so-on down a long list including a tailstock quill refitting where the bore is either bushed or honed to an accurate cylinder and a new replacement quill is fitted and installed.

I bet Kenny's lathe will finish up as a dandy machine tool, but unless all that formidable work list is complete he can't rightly use the word "rebuild" as a descriptor for his work and neither can I or anyone else unless we comply with the intent of the word's definition.

Sorry for using the wrong terms Forrest, I will have to run my post's through the lawyer's office first:o

Can we re-title this post to read:
"A very thorough cleaning, inspection, adjustment, and painting of a Clausing lathe"

Forrest Addy
01-15-2007, 09:10 AM
(Blush) Maybe I should have de-linked my commentary from your post. I don't intend to demean your efforts; only to alert that much of the language used in the machinist trade is very specific - including the word "rebuild" - and a little background that makes it so.

If I ruffled any feathers, I'm sorry. The need for rigor in technical language is longstanding and a too-casual use of common words like "rebuild" may stir up the curmudgeons.

MCS
01-15-2007, 09:11 AM
Sorry for using the wrong terms Forrest, I will have to run my post's through the lawyer's office first:o

Can we re-title this post to read:
"A very thorough cleaning, inspection, adjustment, and painting of a Clausing lathe"

After you paid your lawyer, the title will be:
"A very thorough inspection of a lathe I will sell soon".

andypullen
01-15-2007, 11:02 AM
Looks great, Kenny!

I have had a 4901 Clausing for 15 years and it's served me well. If you're in the Bel Air area, look me up. Or, we could meet up at Cabin Fever if you're going to that. I'll most likely have a table there with a large scale train or 2.

Your paint needs a greenish tint to make it look more like a Clausing. The gray looks acceptable on a Clausing, though.

Andy Pullen

lazlo
01-15-2007, 12:57 PM
(Blush) Maybe I should have de-linked my commentary from your post.

Don't worry about it Forrest -- I find it charming ;) The professional machinists (like yourself and John Stevenson) find it odd that the amateurs spend so much time on the paint job, when it's just a tool.

I'm almost finished a complete restoration of my Clausing 5914, but I'm a little reluctant to post pictures, lest it be accused of being a "Shop Queen." :D

kennyd4110
01-15-2007, 07:41 PM
Looks great, Kenny!

I have had a 4901 Clausing for 15 years and it's served me well. If you're in the Bel Air area, look me up. Or, we could meet up at Cabin Fever if you're going to that. I'll most likely have a table there with a large scale train or 2.

Your paint needs a greenish tint to make it look more like a Clausing. The gray looks acceptable on a Clausing, though.

Andy Pullen



Andy, Thanks for the invite, actually I am in Belair quite frequently for work...And I have some family that lives up there.


I am planing to be at Cabin Fever on Saturday, I hope to meet you there.

kennyd4110
01-15-2007, 07:42 PM
CORRECTION: The lathe I have is a model # 4902, NOT 4913, not sure what I was thinking:eek:

Fred White
01-15-2007, 07:51 PM
Good job!

Now replace the original motor with a DC motor for variable speed and you will really love it!

andypullen
01-16-2007, 09:28 AM
That looks excellent! what kind of paint is that, and how was it applied? Also, where'd you find the lathe? I know that Norman Machine Tool in Baltimore has a number of them in inventory now, and they're just the lathe I want.

Nice work.

Hi Motomoron,

I looked at Norman's website yesterday and there were no 10" machines listed, but they did have a 12" machine listed. 2 hp 3 phase. They do have some neat stuff on there as well.

I'll look for you at the show, Kenny. I'll have a camelback steam switcher running on air there. Most likely in the hall on the left from the entrance. Do you have a manual for your machine? If not, I can copy mine for you.

Andy Pullen

kennyd4110
01-16-2007, 05:49 PM
I'll look for you at the show, Kenny. I'll have a camelback steam switcher running on air there. Most likely in the hall on the left from the entrance. Do you have a manual for your machine? If not, I can copy mine for you.

Andy Pullen

I will be sure to find you, and yes I have the manual, I ordered it from Clausing when I got the machine.

**UPDATE**
I odered a TECO FM50 VFD today, and got the belts in place and tensioned last night. I still have a couple odds and ends to do, But I expect I'll have it running in about 2 weeks or so...

paulgrandy
01-20-2007, 07:19 PM
It's 'too pretty' to use now. Set it somewhere in your house like a piece of furniture. You certainly aren't going to mess it up by using it are you?

I've got a Clausing 5936 sitting in my garage now that I got from Norman Machine last week. Hope I can make it look as pretty as yours.

andypullen
01-20-2007, 09:01 PM
Hi Kenny,

We were set up in the other hall this time. I'll be there again tomorrow.

Andy Pullen

kennyd4110
01-20-2007, 09:36 PM
It's 'too pretty' to use now. Set it somewhere in your house like a piece of furniture. You certainly aren't going to mess it up by using it are you?

I've got a Clausing 5936 sitting in my garage now that I got from Norman Machine last week. Hope I can make it look as pretty as yours.

Thanks for the compliments Paul. Good luck with your 5936

kennyd4110
01-20-2007, 09:41 PM
Hi Kenny,

We were set up in the other hall this time. I'll be there again tomorrow.

Andy Pullen

Thanks Andy, I was there from 0900 to 1400 today, I walked both halls countless times, and made the 1100 HSM meeting.

All I can say is WOW! After seeing all the talent there it makes me both more intimidated and anxious to get started at the same time. Seeing all those handcrafted masterpieces is a site to behold for sure!
I just hope I can just make some small bushings now and then!

andypullen
01-22-2007, 09:46 AM
Hi Kenny,

Just jump in with both feet. Ask away if you have any questions. We're all here to help.

I would have liked to have talked with you. Don't feel intimidated by the exhibitors. For the most part; they're happy to talk about their projects and are willing to help you if you have a question.

Andy Pullen

kennyd4110
01-22-2007, 09:52 PM
Hi Kenny,

Just jump in with both feet. Ask away if you have any questions. We're all here to help.

I would have liked to have talked with you. Don't feel intimidated by the exhibitors. For the most part; they're happy to talk about their projects and are willing to help you if you have a question.

Andy Pullen

Thanks Andy,
I will ask..have no fear about that!

I was now intimidated by the exhibitors, I was AMAZED!

I kept looking for your Camelback in the the hall on the left, but now i see you where in the other hall!

Thanks for making me fell welcome:D

kennyd4110
02-04-2007, 04:40 PM
OK,
To bring finality to this post, the lathe is completed:D and has actually made some chips!
This is how it looks now, shown proudly with my son and his big smile:D
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/kennyd4110/lathe/DSC02721.jpg


Thanks to all of you for the inspiration to get this done, and to learn a new and challenging hobby.
The are more pictures in the web album if you care to look...
http://picasaweb.google.com/kdeckster

Mike Burdick
02-04-2007, 05:01 PM
Looks great! VERY nice job... :)

andypullen
02-04-2007, 09:53 PM
Looks great, Kenny!

It's too clean, though. Mine hasn't been that clean since I got it.

Look me up the next time you're in Bel Air.

Andy Pullen

japcas
02-04-2007, 10:33 PM
The best part about this rebuild is that you have someone to help you use it after it is completed and share in your hobby. Looks like your son is getting big enough to be able to turn the handles on this thing very nicely. He may be hooked for life. I hope you guys have a good time using it and making what ever makes you happy.

japcas
02-04-2007, 10:44 PM
KennyD, after looking through your photo album of your lathe I saw that you said you didn't have a steady rest for it. I thought I would offer up a cheaper solution if you are looking for a project.

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-9.html

I have no affiliation with this company but got to see some of the raw castings he sells at Cabin Fever this year and they looked real good and the price is right. They are excellent for someone like you who doesn't have one or someone who would like to have an extra steady rest and don't want to give an arm and a leg for it. Just a suggestion.

menace
02-05-2007, 06:30 AM
Ken.

Very nice restoration on your lathe. From the looks of the teardown you'll get a lot of good years of use from the machine. I get mine mechanically sound ,but have been too lazy to finish them off with a nice paint job. I can see from yours it makes all the differance and adds the finishing touches. Good luck.

Steve

andypullen
02-05-2007, 09:24 AM
Hi Kenny,

You just missed a steady rest on ebay last week. It went for around $150. I got the taper attachment for mine from the same seller. When I bought mine it had the extension on the cross slide for the taper attachment; but the rest of it was missing.

I built the steady rest for my lathe with a hunk of 1" plate. I wish I had known about castings at the time.....If you want to measure mine and copy it, you're more than welcome to.

Andy

kennyd4110
02-05-2007, 02:50 PM
KennyD, after looking through your photo album of your lathe I saw that you said you didn't have a steady rest for it. I thought I would offer up a cheaper solution if you are looking for a project.

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-9.html

I have no affiliation with this company but got to see some of the raw castings he sells at Cabin Fever this year and they looked real good and the price is right. They are excellent for someone like you who doesn't have one or someone who would like to have an extra steady rest and don't want to give an arm and a leg for it. Just a suggestion.

Thanks Jonathan,
I have seen this on the web, and I saw them at CF also, he has some really nice stuff, especially that 5C collet chuck!

kennyd4110
02-05-2007, 02:54 PM
Hi Kenny,

You just missed a steady rest on ebay last week. It went for around $150. I got the taper attachment for mine from the same seller. When I bought mine it had the extension on the cross slide for the taper attachment; but the rest of it was missing.

I built the steady rest for my lathe with a hunk of 1" plate. I wish I had known about castings at the time.....If you want to measure mine and copy it, you're more than welcome to.

Andy

Andy, I saw the ebay offerings, glad you got the taper attachment. I have been spending my money on tooling and just did not have the money for the steady rest, and I think it will be a while before I need it anyway, most of my work will be small. One day I will build one, I have a nice welding setup to help also.

Scishopguy
02-05-2007, 03:27 PM
Hi Kenny,

I have got to say what a great job you did on your Clausing. I have a Clausing of the same vintage, I think it is a model 1248, that is needing some of the same TLC that you showed with yours. It was really a big help seeing how it all went together. I have the book on mine but you can only get so much from an exploded drawing. My machine has the hydraulic variable speed that drives a split pully system, kind of like the difference between analog and digital technology. If I ever have any trouble with that system I will surely go to a VFD. I have one on my bridgeport and love it to death. Keep up the good work, you inspire us all!