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View Full Version : Cut off and grooving kit



DeereGuy
02-25-2007, 12:01 PM
I am looking at the cut off and gooving kit that Enco has but would like to find out if any of you are using them and get your thoughts before I order one. Here is a link to the Kit I am talking about.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=17806984&PMAKA=NQ891-6965

TIA
Bob

PaulT
02-25-2007, 01:01 PM
I've got one of those, its manufactured by Newcomber for Enco and its well made. One thing threw me on it at first, its designed so the top clamp is "springy" and you have to tighten it pretty hard to clamp the blade, but once I figured that out it works well. Way better than HSS cutoff blades.

Paul T.

Carld
02-25-2007, 01:17 PM
I have a similar kit I bought from MSC several years ago. It is .087 wide, the #2 style, with a blade and holder. I have used it a lot and it works well. I plan to buy the .120 wide blade and bits if they fit my holder. If I have to buy a larger holder I will keep on using the one I have as it does a very good job.

BillB
02-25-2007, 01:55 PM
Got myself the 2B version for Xmas, sure beats the HSS tools I used before. Shouldn't have waited so long to make the switch.

BillB

lazlo
02-25-2007, 03:03 PM
I am looking at the cut off and gooving kit that Enco

Wow, that's a good price, and free shipping too.

Hmmm, must...not...buy...more...tools... :D

DR
02-25-2007, 03:48 PM
These are good setups.

But, did you ever wonder why they make the blade double ended?

Because the inserts come out occasionally during cuts, and if you don't have lightening fast refexes you can kiss the end of the blade bye-bye.

I use this type setup made by Iscar. Their inserts have a shoulder to limit the insertion depth into the blade. A more rigid insert holding scheme than the one shown. The downside of the Iscar setup is the inserts are proprietary and pricey. I believe the inserts in the Enco setup are generic with multiple sources meaning relatively low prices.

IOWOLF
02-25-2007, 04:06 PM
Got one, The thin one,Use it regularly,Love it.

DeereGuy
02-25-2007, 05:26 PM
As always this board comes through. I will order one tomrorrow. You guys are great.

flatlander
02-27-2007, 10:30 AM
I bought the #2 size version of the same kit from Enco a little over a year ago. Like the others have stated, it sure beats using HSS cut-off blades. I did manage to screw up one end of the blade while learning how it needs to be run, though, and a new 26-2 blade sells for something over $42 the last time I looked. I depend on mine, and didn't want to be without it, so have purchased a spare blade against the day when I manage to screw-up again. The GTN2 inserts occasionally come up for sale on e-bay, and I've bought several dozen of them there for 1/2 - 2/3 what they retail for in the tool catalogs. Get the speed & feed right with this tool, and you'll never go back to HSS partoff blades.

Evan
02-27-2007, 11:10 AM
Seems expensive. I made one a couple of days ago. It cost me 30 cents for the insert. I milled up a piece of square stock to shape and silver brazed on an insert. The finished tool can be ground to whatever thickness is required

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/yact1.jpg

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/yact2.jpg

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/yact3.jpg

lynnl
02-27-2007, 12:11 PM
I like your little spring clamp there Evan!! I'll have to keep that image in mind.

Is that a little piece of flat silver solder positioned between the end of the tool, and the pliers?
Did you flatten it? ...or do you buy it in a flat shape? It so, where?

Evan
02-27-2007, 12:15 PM
That's a trick I learned years ago for soldering pieces in jewelery. The ends get hot but it doesn't lose it's spring.

Evan
02-27-2007, 12:18 PM
Yes, that is a little bit of solder. I, umm, bought it from my wife. It's Easyflo 3 IIRC. The inserts too. :D
You may note the bit of solder came from the corner of the big sheet.

lynnl
02-27-2007, 12:46 PM
Ah so... No, I had not made the connection with the notch in the sheet.

dixdance
02-27-2007, 01:33 PM
Evan, I like your approach. What size are the carbide inserts, and where do you get them?

Thanks, Richard

Evan
02-27-2007, 02:27 PM
They are saw teeth. My wife sells them. I am the head machinist at her shop. At least, that's how she lets me answer the phone. :D

The teeth are C1 carbide which is tougher than old boots and is recommended for roughing hot rolled stock and similar difficult machining. Good for sawing through rocks and spikes too. It doesn't fracture easily and is about the toughest of the carbide grades. What you can't see in that piece I was parting is a 1/4" hole running about halfway in, parallel to the center axis and causing a severe interrupted cut. The tool was undamaged.

After soldering, a few licks with a diamond hone puts a real nice edge on it.

DR
02-27-2007, 04:35 PM
Seems expensive. I made one a couple of days ago. It cost me 30 cents for the insert. I milled up a piece of square stock to shape and silver brazed on an insert. The finished tool can be ground to whatever thickness is required



Expensive? And how much is your shop time worth?

So you're right in the middle of a cutoff job and the brazed insert breaks......no problem, shouldn't be more than a 1/2 hour or so to find all the soldering stuff, braze, then 15 minutes or so to grind.

Alistair Hosie
02-27-2007, 04:48 PM
he Wolfie stop showing off:DAlistair

Got one, The thin one,Use it regularly,Love it.

IOWOLF
02-27-2007, 05:17 PM
he Wolfie stop showing off:DAlistair

Got one, The thin one,Use it regularly,Love it.

No brag ,Just Fact. :o

Evan
02-27-2007, 05:24 PM
Expensive? And how much is your shop time worth?

How much are you willing to pay me?















I thought so... :D

pcarpenter
02-28-2007, 10:36 AM
I understand the shop time argument and that is why I find myself buying some of the inexpensive and yet adequate Chinese tooling. I just can't justify an entire saturday afternoon to make things I can buy for $10-30. I have a long list of projects and limited time. Its about opportunity costs....I make one item and I don't have time to make something else. However, here we are talking about well over $100 for something that can be made in an hour or so.

A guy could make several carbide tipped parting tools at once, rather cheaply and quickly as Evan pointed out.

I have plans to make one or two in different widths in the blade style to fit my standard parting tool holder.

If you don't want to do that, Shars sells some of the standard blade type(with a soldered carbide piece) for about $8....about the cost of a standard HSS cutoff blade.

Paul

Your Old Dog
02-28-2007, 11:22 AM
If you don't have any sheet silver solder and need some it's easy to make. You will need a piece of round silver solder, a whomper (hammer) and the technical skill to hit the round solder until it is flat. :D If it starts to wonder and curve to the right then hit inside the curve till it straightens back out. It don't hurt to clean it off with 400 grit before you use it. Some would argue that it's worth more then store bought flat stock because it's got the deluxe hammertone finish.

DR
02-28-2007, 11:25 AM
Okay, so you make up a few of the brazed tools at a time (you have spares when needed).

You still don't have a comparable performance setup to the factory made inserts. The "home" ground cut off tools won't have the fancy chip curling design of the molded inserts.

Cutting off in the lathe is one of the biggest problems for HSM'ers. This may not be the best place to try and "cut" costs.

lynnl
02-28-2007, 11:41 AM
If you don't have any sheet silver solder and need some it's easy to make. You will need a piece of round silver solder, a whomper (hammer) and the technical skill to hit the round solder until it is flat. :D If it starts to wonder and curve to the right then hit inside the curve till it straightens back out. It don't hurt to clean it off with 400 grit before you use it. Some would argue that it's worth more then store bought flat stock because it's got the deluxe hammertone finish.


You'd be whomping a long time on the silver solder I have. It's pretty hard, tough stuff. Not at all like the soft, pliable hardware store solder.
And even then, you'd not likely achieve very uniform thickness.

I seem to recall trying that once, and quickly gave up that idea.

pcarpenter
02-28-2007, 12:41 PM
DR-- I see the other side of that. I don't have huge problems using a standard t-shaped HSS blade, so it is doable, the key is just figuring out the critical issues. I think the reason we HSM types tend to have problems with parting is that they treat cutter alignment as being not so critical like with other lathe tools. Centering and vertical alignment are a big deal.

The HSS t-blades come with a v to the top surface to start with. If you make your own carbide cutter, it could too. I have some cheap diamond wheels for my dremel tool that can solve that problem in about 60 seconds. One could even buy some of the uncoated parting inserts and silver solder them to a blade of your own making and save most of the $120 for that kit.

On the flip side, its not like the insert holders are without problem....as previously discussed, they can launch an insert into space and ruin the holder in a fraction of a second--especially if you get them off center. The inserts are about $8 each, and as I recall these holders are around $50. I would argue that you can ill afford mistakes with that sort of tool. They also require a special holder because in order to be able to clamp and support the insert by spring tension, the holder must be fairly tall. There is no question that if used carefully and properly, they do a great job...but that sort of care is also part of the difference between success and failure with other parting tools too.

I just see Evan's point...if carbide is critical to your parting success, there are much cheaper ways to try it out.
Paul