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lane
03-11-2007, 11:05 PM
Well spent the weekend finishing up some belt sanders my buddy Monty and I built for our shops. Just need a motor for mine . Found his motor on e-bay last week.Here are some pictures.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/sanderrightside003.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/sanderleftside004.jpg
I got the plands From my friend Bill Pace . He had built one and I thought it was nice I changed some things Made the frame out of 5/8 thick alum. and Bill casted Monty and I some large wheels to drive the belt . They turned out nice

wierdscience
03-11-2007, 11:09 PM
Nice job,I've had building one of those on my list for a couple years now.

JRouche
03-11-2007, 11:11 PM
Very nice, you guys did a great job. Make sure to "tip" caster, they dont come cheap....

How do you adjust for tracking?

And, are the wheels crowned, one or both?

Nice, JRouche

lane
03-11-2007, 11:18 PM
traching is the black star knob on the left side top the bottom wheel is crowned I showed how i did it two weeks ago using my old van norman Mill might look up the post.

Carld
03-12-2007, 12:22 AM
Well done.

YankeeMetallic
03-12-2007, 12:28 AM
I'm getting ready to build a big one myself out of parts that I have been collecting for a while. I haven't decided on belt width as of yet either 2 or 4 " with a free space of at least 15" between top pulley and platform.
You did a nice job!

cybor462
03-12-2007, 12:35 AM
Sweet job.
Did one of the mags have plans for that? I thought I saw it and now forget where. I should have one. What rpm is the motor? I have a new 3/4hp 1725 rpm motor. I should make one of these myself if my motor will work.

Real sweet job.

Your Old Dog
03-12-2007, 06:25 AM
Great looking project! I at one time had a 2x72 Wilton belt sander and found it the workhorse of the shop. I've been collecting stuff to build one. I sure hope it comes out as nice as yours !! I used my 2x72 to make knives with and you can grind anything you can't jig in the mill/lather. Just a great tool to have.

I should ask, billett? :D

Peter S
03-12-2007, 06:35 AM
Lane,

nicely done! Can I offer a couple of ideas - a rubber wheel is nice/essential to work against.

Also, for anyone planning to make one, I have used the type in this link for many years, they are fantastic little units (2"x36" belt), they fit to an existing bench grinder. Notice how the working wheel is supported internally, there is no part of the frame outside the belt width in the area of the wheel. This allows you to move your job around freely at any angle to the belt.
These Multitool linishers are one of the most useful tools I have ever used. Made in Australia, we bought our first one probably 20 years ago. Can't say I have ever used the angled plate and face sander though, in fact the bits were lost years ago. there was also an attachment for sharpening chisels and plane blades, also lost....
To change the belt, you push against the rubber wheel, it is telescopic and spring loaded. It pushes back and latches. Fit the belt and trip the latch, instant tension. There is a little lever for adjusting the belt tracking.

http://www.ausmultitool.com/Item/MT362BAL6.htm

sandiapaul
03-12-2007, 08:54 AM
Yes very nice..where does one get plans?

Bill Pace
03-12-2007, 09:53 AM
Since Lane is at work today and and I'm sorta involved with this neat little sander, I'll try and answer some questions.......

Cybor, my version has a 1750 motor, I coluldnt lay my hands on a face mount anyway and I had this one on hand........... so like a good HSM'er I "ADAPTED"------

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_0633.jpg

Just as a "for what it worth" this design has the 2x42" belts which is one of the less common sizes to find, though a feller could extend it to accept a 48", I suppose, which is real common.

The Plans----- well, I seem to remember I got them from a member on the forum here .... George Barnes, (are you a member, George?) anyway, he freely sent me the copies and I would think he wouldnt mind if I shared them, so if anybody wants to PM me I'll see if I cant get you a set, theres 5 pages 8x11. George just sent them as an email attachment and that prolly what I'll do.

I guess the big wheel CAN be a stumper, --- might could adapt one of the rubber coated caster wheels, which might be nice to get the benefit of the rubber backing...... I was a Dave Gingery fanatic a few years ago and I've got all the casting stuff so it wasnt a big deal to whip up a couple (I cast the top one also on mine) The plans arent any help on a source.

George Barnes
03-12-2007, 10:35 PM
Hey Bill,

I'm still around here, just not very vocal. :)

The credit for the design of this sander belongs to someone else. A friend of mine bought one of these at an auction a few years ago and I did a quick R&D on it. You know, Rip off and Duplicate. Well, on paper at least. It appeared to be a manufactured item. Either it did not have a name on it or I have completely forgotten what it was. All that I did was to convert the quick sketches into drawings.

Bill, one question for you, it appears that the tracking adjuster is reversed on yours. The arm that the set screw pushes against should be on the sanding belt side of the main frame plate. Is the main frame hole threaded and the arm has a hole in it and the tracking is controlled by adjusting the nut? Just wondering.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/BeltSanderAssembly.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/BeltSanderAssembly-Detail.jpg

I like the addition of the platen and the table on your friends machine. I probably ought to update drawings to reflect those additions....someday. :)

lane
03-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Yea bill yours is backwards. These are copies od a Baldor sander we have some at work . and they are exact copies except the baldor has a 7inch ribber groved drive wheel and the upper wheel is 4 inches in dia. then it will use the 2x48 inch belt that being the only difference except for some gaurds. I copied the table and back bracket right off the baldor. Brought it home one evening and layed it on a piece of 1/4 inch plate and traced out a pattern and ran them thru band saw. you could buy one of those rubber wheels but me I`m CHEEP if i can make it i dont buy it . I made 2 wheel out of 4 layers of mdf board with a steel insert untill my buddy Bill made the castings for us.

7018
03-13-2007, 09:39 PM
Bill thanks for taking the time to send me the plans.......:D

DR
03-13-2007, 10:49 PM
I just paid 20 bucks for an older Craftsman 1x42 sander similar to the one Lane made. Light, very handy to move around the shop where needed.

As the seller was demo'ing I noticed the belt was turning the wrong way. He mumbled something about switching wires to reverse direction. Okay, no problem.

Once back to shop I took the bottom cover plate off....hmmmm, only two wires going to the motor. Non-capacitor motor. Obviously switching them won't do anything.

So how did the motor direction become reversed? Maybe the armature was turned end for end? Nope.

It turned out the stator in this grinder motor is symetrical end for end. Someone had turned it around. By switching it back I got the correct rotation. Strange.

Anyway, I recommend these type grinders. Mine will never get bolted down (unless I get a couple more). Today I used it by the lathe and across the shop at a mill.

Bill Pace
03-14-2007, 05:17 PM
I liked Lanes table and platen addition to this little sander so much, I cobbled myself one up! Have had quite a few requests for copies on the sander (Michael, I,ll need your email), so thought I would share a couple pix of the platen/shelf that I came up with that you might want as an addition (See what you started George!)

I did like Lane suggested and took a piece of cardboard and trimmed it to the rough shape I wanted, transferred it to some .250 plate and then cut it out on the bandsaw. Had a piece of 3x3x3/16 angle that I trimmed up for the table, took bout hour and half. I've checked it out already 2-3 times today and its quite a nice addition.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_0635Small.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_0636Small.jpg

HWooldridge
03-14-2007, 06:28 PM
http://www.balconesforge.org/techarticles/sander.pdf

Here's one I built a few years ago...

Alistair Hosie
03-14-2007, 07:14 PM
I hd to say you did a great job of that. I have a small 2 inch belt linisher sander im my machine shop, and have recently bought a good industrial 12 inch disc with 6 X44 inch belt combination , this should do me for anything I need.However as a project the idea of making one is a big turn on as this looks within my capabilities and looks fun to do well done again!! and kindest regardsAlistair

Bill in Ky
03-14-2007, 07:25 PM
Good job! Looks really nice. I have to put one of those on the to do list.

Alistair Hosie
03-14-2007, 07:31 PM
Hi could you show me a better view of the top end and tracking please Alistair

lane
03-14-2007, 08:55 PM
Look at georges 3 d pictures he drew. Real plain in his model the screw pushes the bar in and out so the top puller tilts a little to track the belt . Lane

cuemaker
03-14-2007, 09:09 PM
http://www.balconesforge.org/techarticles/sander.pdf

Here's one I built a few years ago...


I have been meaning to build your sander!! I been wanting a knife grinding belt sander for sometime and I found your plans that you posted somewhere on line. It was a crappy copy of what you posted. I have the plans saved.

i have the motor and the base but just havent dont anything with it. Glad to know your a member of this fine group.

Its amazing what a good belt sander with a good belt can do!

George Barnes
03-14-2007, 11:09 PM
Alistair, see if this helps any.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/BeltSander-MainFramePlate.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/BeltSander-Parts.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/BeltSanderAssemblyDimensions.jpg

boaterri
01-29-2010, 06:37 PM
George:

A quick queston. Is the 14 3/4" dimention for the "spine" for a 42" belt or a 48"? If for the 42" would you just add 3" for the larger size?

Thanks,

Rick

Your Old Dog
01-29-2010, 08:58 PM
.............................................Anywa y, I recommend these type grinders. Mine will never get bolted down (unless I get a couple more). Today I used it by the lathe and across the shop at a mill.

I thought of my Wilton 2x72 belt grinder like a writer thinks of a conjunction. You can do things with one of these in seconds that would take hours to do on a lathe, mill, shaper.....etc.

And now, if I might take this auspicious occasion to bring you a wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_conjunction

digr
01-29-2010, 09:38 PM
This is my rendition of his design pics and drawings here (http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23381)

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae96/digr/22.jpg

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae96/digr/33.jpg

whitis
01-29-2010, 10:13 PM
Well, as long as we are ripping off and duplicating, here is one that might be worth stealing some ideas from. There is a neat belt sander at 6:48 in this video (http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/181-span-classhighlightmachinespan-span-classhighlightshopspan-3). 4 pulleys, articulated, removable platen, removable table. Actually 5 pulleys (http://cgi.ebay.com/DELTA-ROCKWELL-1-BELT-SANDER-GRINDER-IDLER-WHEELS_W0QQitemZ150408721355QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSan ders_Sandblasters?hash=item23050ef3cb) - one above the main drive wheel to add some support when platen is removed. I think it was made by Delta/Rockwell. Looks like Frank ford has a similar model (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=426388&postcount=5). Don't think you can get them anymore. Enco 163-4512 (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDF?PMAKA=163-4512&PMCTLG=01) is the closest I have seen - and it would need all the modifications (except adding a disc sander) undone.

The one in this thread lacks the useless covers and guards that get in the way of using the versatility of such a machine (and are sometimes integral parts of the structure) so would be easier to modify.

gwilson
01-29-2010, 10:47 PM
Please Realize These Are Belt Grinders,not Sanders!!!!!!

Doozer
01-29-2010, 11:04 PM
OK, I give up. What's the difference?
Is it like a black bird and a raven sort a thing?

--Doozer

digr
01-29-2010, 11:12 PM
Well, as long as we are ripping off and duplicating, here is one that might be worth stealing some ideas from. There is a neat belt sander at 6:48 in this video (http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/181-span-classhighlightmachinespan-span-classhighlightshopspan-3). 4 pulleys, articulated, removable platen, removable table. Actually 5 pulleys (http://cgi.ebay.com/DELTA-ROCKWELL-1-BELT-SANDER-GRINDER-IDLER-WHEELS_W0QQitemZ150408721355QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSan ders_Sandblasters?hash=item23050ef3cb) - one above the main drive wheel to add some support when platen is removed. I think it was made by Delta/Rockwell. Looks like Frank ford has a similar model (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=426388&postcount=5). Don't think you can get them anymore. Enco 163-4512 (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDF?PMAKA=163-4512&PMCTLG=01) is the closest I have seen - and it would need all the modifications (except adding a disc sander) undone.

The one in this thread lacks the useless covers and guards that get in the way of using the versatility of such a machine (and are sometimes integral parts of the structure) so would be easier to modify.
I built one like that one (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=426388&postcount=5) 35 years ago and its still going. Plans and pics here (http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9758)

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae96/digr/old.jpg

RKW
01-29-2010, 11:15 PM
Typically it is wood that is sanded and metal that is ground or grinded if you prefer ;-)


OK, I give up. What's the difference?
Is it like a black bird and a raven sort a thing?

--Doozer

Doozer
01-29-2010, 11:56 PM
Illiterates say grinded.
Only the king's English spoken here.

-Doozer

kyfho
01-30-2010, 01:47 AM
Whitis,
I loved seeing the MIT video. When my father passed, I got a BelSaw on a stand that looks almost exactly like that one. I never knew what that extra, small wheel on top was used for. And now I do! Thanks!

vpt
01-31-2010, 11:59 PM
Couple of questions. I have an extra 3/4hp 1725hp motor thats just begging to turn a belt. My question is if the motor is direct drive to the belt (without V-belts and pulleys) what size pulley should I be looking for to get the right rpm out of the belt? Also is a 4" wide belt asking to much out of a 3/4hp 110v motor?

EVguru
02-01-2010, 05:44 AM
I did like Lane suggested and took a piece of cardboard and trimmed it to the rough shape I wanted, transferred it to some .250 plate and then cut it out on the bandsaw.

CAD

Cardboard

Aided

Design

Black_Moons
02-01-2010, 06:16 AM
For your belt sander rollers, do you just make them apexed in the center? (ie two tapers meeting in the center) or do you have a flat part in the center? What angle do you taper them? I recently bought a cheapo stationary belt sander and the wheels where done with... I don't know, a noob with an angle grinder.. im sure I coulda done better with an angle grinder, very lumpy, plan to turn my own.

digr
02-01-2010, 09:10 AM
Couple of questions. I have an extra 3/4hp 1725hp motor thats just begging to turn a belt. My question is if the motor is direct drive to the belt (without V-belts and pulleys) what size pulley should I be looking for to get the right rpm out of the belt? Also is a 4" wide belt asking to much out of a 3/4hp 110v motor?

Mine has a 7" pulley that gives me about 3100 FPM with a 1 horse 1725 RPM

I don't believe that a 3/4 HP has enough power to run a 4" belt and is on the edge for 2" belt but should be able to turn it with direct drive without loss of power threw a belt drive.

digr
02-01-2010, 09:14 AM
For your belt sander rollers, do you just make them apexed in the center? (ie two tapers meeting in the center) or do you have a flat part in the center? What angle do you taper them? I recently bought a cheapo stationary belt sander and the wheels where done with... I don't know, a noob with an angle grinder.. im sure I coulda done better with an angle grinder, very lumpy, plan to turn my own.

On mine I crowned the tracking pulley only, setting the compound to 2 1/2 degrees leaving about 1/4" flat in the center. I don't know if you need the crown but both of my grinders have crowns on the tracking pulleys.

kyfho
02-01-2010, 06:29 PM
Newbie question:

I believe someone mentioned making up your own belts and would be VERY interested in learning how.
I have a BelSaw that runs 1x42 belts and I can order them off the net, but I can buy a roll of 1" from the warehouse at work for a very reasonable price.
Any info on the process, glue, and backer material to use to make my own would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

camdigger
02-01-2010, 06:49 PM
Mine has a 7" pulley that gives me about 3100 FPM with a 1 horse 1725 RPM

I don't believe that a 3/4 HP has enough power to run a 4" belt and is on the edge for 2" belt but should be able to turn it with direct drive without loss of power threw a belt drive.


I'm hoping to use a 3/4 hp 3450 flange mount 'soon as I get tuit.

Belt sfpm = ((Belt Drive pulley OD x pi)/12) x rpm

Belt drive pulley OD = 12 x belt sfpm/(rpm x pi)

for belt speed = 3000 sfpm and 3450 rpm

Belt drive pulley = 12 x 3000 / (3450 x 3.14159) = 3.32" driven direct from the motor shaft.



Then direct drive off the shaft of a 1725 rpm motor

Belt pulley OD = 12 x 3000 / (1725 x 3.14159) = 6.642"


Anyone using their new belt grinder to cope tubing? Seems like a pretty common thing in the offroad circles for coping roll cage tubing.

gwilson
02-01-2010, 08:12 PM
Belt grinders are for metal and run a LOT faster than belt sanders for wood. If you've ever tried to sand wood with a belt grinder,you will quickly burn the wood.

MickeyD
02-01-2010, 08:19 PM
I have a 4"x36" and have some scotchbrite belts on order for it for finishing aluminum. If it works like advertised it will make getting a brushed finish a lot easier than the hand sanding that I have been doing.

lane
02-01-2010, 08:29 PM
You only need to crown the driving pulley and about 1-2 degrees per side to center. Weather you leave a little flat area is up to you . I have tried it many different ways and they all work the same .

whitis
02-01-2010, 10:26 PM
I built one like that one (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=426388&postcount=5) 35 years ago and its still going. Plans and pics here (http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9758)


Nice machine. Looks like a lot of travel on that top pulley. Very similar to the core of the delta but missing some of the extras. I don't see the fourth and fifth wheel, though they may be easy to add. The delta machine also had slots in a couple places, where you had holes, allowing quicker removal of the platen and table.

Bill Pace's old chinese import (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=426400&postcount=6) is also similar to yours and the delta. Almost looks like a piece of junk but he would "probably fight a bear to be able to hang on to it". It looks like the enco and
wholesale tool (http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/15043?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=froog) models after stripping off some stuff. On his, the top shaft looks long enough to add the extra arm - without all the sheet metal that gets in the way.

One potential use of the extra wheels that isn't really shown in the MIT video is grinding internal features with no external access. Unhook the top of the belt, slip it through the cutout in your part and slide your part over the platen (if used). Then hook the belt over the top wheel and set the 4th and 5th wheels to push the back side of the belt near the platen/front side so you aren't unintentionally putting a radius on the back side of the cutout while sanding the front.

Some other nice machines are shown (http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm) on Bob Warfield's site.

Davidhcnc
02-02-2010, 08:44 AM
Another sander:)


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.hull35/Other%20Images/grinder2.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.hull35/Other%20Images/rollers.jpg

Tension/tracking.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.hull35/Other%20Images/strut.jpg

Dawai
02-02-2010, 08:52 AM
I reworked a 4x72 belt sander.. Now having steering issues.. the steering bolts are stuck.. allen heads. The motor shaft was locked up and stuck in the belt pulley, it exploded when pressed out.. I built one from a piece of steel pipe..

Kinda wished I had cloned the KMG version.. still not too late..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xodbg1fF9sQ&feature=related