Way OT...Old trials bikes...

[torker]

Hey guys...just in case anyone is into this old kind of stuff.
I just bought a pair of mid 70's Yamaha TY trials bikes. The yellow one is a 250 and the white one a 175.
They sat for years but after cleaning out the rotten gas etc., they are fine machines. The 250 is in really nice shape.
Went out riding all day yesterday on the 250 and spent til way after dark out on the 175. As you can see it snowed and was pretty tricky riding out in the hills.
These ol' things are too cool to work on. Points ignition, twin shocks...very low tech but sooo simple.
Here's a pic tonight after I got home. Truck deck was wicked slippery...more dangerous than riding the bike :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00001-27.jpg
And one of the 250. Thing is over 30 years old but like new.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00002-3.jpg
Russ

[pntrbl]

My brother is into old dirtbikes. He's got about 13 and a half!

His latest finished bike is a Penton that looks better than showroom new. Hodaka's. My nephew rides a 360 KTM. He just recently latched onto an Ossa 250 Stiletto. I dunno how many Husqvarna's. It depends on if you count frames ....

Some Japanese too. His personal is a CR500 Honda with some extra weight on the flywheel and he wants one of those new high revvin' 4 stroke 250's

He rides 'em too. No garage queens on us.

SP

[dp]

I used to love riding those bikes. I had a Bultaco Sherpa T I'd like to have back (and my Pursang and Matador, too, while I'm at it). Nothing is so much fun on two wheels as rock climbing on a trials bike. But then that was 35 years ago when beer was food and we were suffering from global cooling.

Oh yeah - I have a Hodaka 125 in the back yard and a Harley Road King in the garage. Both need the batteries charged and beer is now just a snack food :)

[A.K. Boomer]

My brother is into old dirtbikes. He's got about 13 and a half!

His latest finished bike is a Penton that looks better than showroom new. Hodaka's. My nephew rides a 360 KTM. He just recently latched onto an Ossa 250 Stiletto. I dunno how many Husqvarna's. It depends on if you count frames ....

Some Japanese too. His personal is a CR500 Honda with some extra weight on the flywheel and he wants one of those new high revvin' 4 stroke 250's

He rides 'em too. No garage queens on us.

SP


WOW, youv just jogged a ton of memories with the brands youve discribed, unfortunatly most of them came from working on those machines rather than riding them , no disrespect to the bikes , its what I used to do is wrench on them --- I had totally forgotton the word "penton" until you just mentioned it...

[torker]

Oh boy! Brings backa lot of memories!
In about 1969 there was a big guy came up here from California. He was a long haired hippy guy who was dodging the draft.
When he showed up he had a Hodaka 100 in the back of his VW bus. We all sort of laughed at him...till he got on that bike. To this day I've never seen anyone who could wheelie like that guy. He could go for miles, wide open or slow...didn't matter. That little 100 would rip even with a man his size on it.
I got to ride a brand new Pursang 250(about 72?). I was in love with that bike but couldn't afford to buy one.
Got to ride a few Husky 250's also. They where very nice bikes but were wicked when it came to fouling spark plugs.
Twenty years later I started riding 250 monoshock ,uber suspention MX bikes. What a difference!
But I've decided these old girls are more my speed today. The YZ you can see is healing up from a full out tranny exlosion. I'm still healing from a YZ induced leg explosion...sure is a lot of fun though.
Russ

[pntrbl]

The craziest one my brother ever owned was a 100cc Zundapp. Had a slip on carb that started slipping off one day, but we kept sticking it back on there. Unfortunately it leaned the mix out and holed the piston. Couldn't get no piston for a 100cc Zundapp.

Luckily, or so we thought, a kindly gent at the Yamaha dealer figured a 100cc Yamaha piston was the same diameter. COOL!

The only thing that was wrong was the pin to locate the ring gap on the Yamaha piston came up right in the exhaust port of the Zundapp cylinder. We didn't know any better and fired it up. I don't think it revved 3 times and Chunk!

That was the end of the Zundapp ......

We managed to kill a 200cc Triumph Cub and a 160cc Parilla in one fell swoop another time but, I could go on just about forever.

SP

[dicks42000]

Torker;

Where did Tonka Motorcycles go anyway...(was the BC Hodaka importer).Brings back memories when you mention the Hodakas & Bultaco's. My fav. name was the "Combat Wombat". Are those brands still around...? At least Aprillia & Laverda make helicopter parts & farm machinery to stay in business. Ducati/Cagiva makes flywheels & ignition parts for Vespas....

As for trials riders of note, does anyone remember Ed Hertfelder & his column & book(s?) from Motorcyclist or Cycle magazine..."The Duct Tapes"...?
Shades of trials at Ioco in the '80's in the rain....& mud.
I had fun.
Rick

[Swarf&Sparks]

Speaking of TY250, remember Mick Andrews?
My hero in the 70s :)

[Swarf&Sparks]

Hehehe, just found this....
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/idgara_eng/1975MickAndrewsDemo.jpg

[Bguns]

Cycle The Duct Tapes :) Favorite story was the Push Rod .......How true with the plug fouling critters of the past....

[Doc Nickel]

I had, for a bit more than a year, a 1972 Honda TL125 trials bike.

I got it as a fairly complete frame, lacking a motor and perhaps a bracket or two. I also got a big pile of TL125 engines (and whatever they called the same thing in a non-trials version; same engine, just the serial numbers were different) but none complete enough to run.

So, with a little scrounging, I managed to find and install an ATC200 motor- basically a big brother to the 125, with an auto clutch, out of one of the early no-suspension, balloon-tired three-wheelers.

Basically a bolt-in, the only mod I had to do was switch the thumb throttle to a twist grip. (Well, I didn't "have" to, but I wanted to.)

Only problem being, the resulting twist ratio ended up being less than one-quarter turn from idle to full throttle. With the huge trials rear sprocket and the extra-low ATC first gear in the motor- and the fact the bike sans engine barely weighed 70 pounds- it had torque to burn and would certainly surprise an unwary rider.

I rode it for most of a summer. With the torque and light weight, the thing would climb trees.

Eventually I decided to see what it'd be like with a 'real' motor (IE, the manual-clutch TL125 engine) and started rebuilding one of the better core engines. I ended up getting about 2/3rds of the way done, and then sold it off to a fellow who knew precisely what the bike was, had the parts to restore it, and rode "real" trials (not just the backwoods rough-trail stuff I'd been doing.)

He more or less restored it (not a councours/numbers-matching type thing, but basically a very clean rebuild) rode it once, maybe twice, and then some prick stole it right out of his backyard.

Always wondered what happened to it.

Years later, I had a chance to buy a Bultaco trials bike. 250 cc engine, and some "aftermarket" frame I forget the name of, but was famous for being nickel-plated rather than painted. Can't recall exactly what it was, but I'd imagine it'd be worth a few bucks today...

And speaking of bikes, I recall back in the eighties, going with some friends to look at a "$50 motorcycle" out of the classified ads. Turned out to be a '53 (I think) Allstate that we literally pulled out of the weeds. Some fresh gas, a quick scrub to the plug, and about three trips up the street pushing it and it started & ran.

As I recall, it was left-foot clutch and left-hand twist-grip to shift. The guys rode it around like it was a cheap scooter for a while (doing very little repair other than trying to patch the ruisty exhaust with one of those epoxy tape kits) until the twist shifter broke at a ball linkage. They tried fixing it once, didn't hold, so they sold it off.

That's another one I wish I knew what happened to, and what it'd be worth today even if it was still in that same condition from back then.

Doc.

[topct]

"Years later, I had a chance to buy a Bultaco trials bike. 250 cc engine, and some "aftermarket" frame I forget the name of, but was famous for being nickel-plated rather than painted. Can't recall exactly what it was, but I'd imagine it'd be worth a few bucks today..."

That would have been a "Rickman". He made frames and seat/tank plastic for a lot of different brand motors.

Very collectable these days especially if you have all the body work that went with them. I built a flat track bike out of a Montessa version for a friend of mine.

[Mcgyver]

the yellow and white trials bikes, wow, haven't seen one of those in years. had one, eventually change for a YZ. going over logs and rocks wasn't my thing and i got sick of having to stop and dig the clogged mud out from under the front fender :D

[Swarf&Sparks]

"and i got sick of having to stop and dig the clogged mud out from under the front fender"

That's why most of us threw it into the weeds and fitted a high mudcatcher :D

[Michael Moore]

Actually, I'd suspect that any nickle-plated frame Bultaco trials bike was probably a Sammy Miller frame. The Rickman bros did do some of their Zundapp-engined MicroMetisse in trials trim, but most everything they did was either scrambles/enduro or road/roadrace frames. Here's a photo of a Miller frame for a TL125:

http://mcswapmeet.tripod.com/hbf2.JPG

This is my Kawasaki KT250 vintage trials bike:

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/KT250%20new%20exhaust%20pipe%2030a.jpg


I built the tank, fender stays and exhaust for it. I had a 1974 325 Sherpa T that I bought new and I sure did like that. I've modified the porting and squish on the KT and I've been told that those mods with the pipe make it one of the best-running KTs that the other owners have ridden. It does need more flywheel (it is light compared to the Spanish bikes) but I've got to build a new frame for it to allow space for a bigger cover over the magneto to fit the extra weight.

There's a very large amount of vintage dirt bike stuff on my website if anyone is interested.

Oh yes, I've also got a TT500 Yamaha based Modern Classic trials project. I've had a new 2nd gear pair made up that will move 2nd down closer to first, giving a choice of two gears in a section instead of just one.

cheers,
Michael

[torker]

Michael, I couldn't get the first link to work. The pic of your bike...I'm thinking this runs an oil injection the same as the Yamaha's of the day. Or is that a clutch cable entering the side case?
The one on my 250 YT works well but I took the pump out of the 175. The pump was buggered (from water sitting in it). Uhooked all the other stuff and it's got a nice clean look now and I always know it's getting oil.
What kind of shocks are you using? Mine has the originals and that's all we'll say about them :D
I'd also like to get a plastic tank (maybe a Sammy Miller combo) for the 175. The original is full of rust.
So where is your website? I'd like to see it.
Thanks!
Russ

[aostling]

The craziest one my brother ever owned was a 100cc Zundapp. Had a slip on carb that started slipping off one day, but we kept sticking it back on there. Unfortunately it leaned the mix out and holed the piston. Couldn't get no piston for a 100cc Zundapp.

SP

I bought a Bultaco Matador in 1965, when they were only 200cc. That fulfilled a dream I'd had during my last six months of university.

Perhaps the strangest bike I had was a two-stroke Puch. It had two cylinders but only one spark plug in a common combustion chamber. The intake ports were in one cylinder, the exhaust ports in the other.

By the way (as Colombo used to say), today is the first day of my retirement. Seems pretty good, so far.

[Michael Moore]

Russ, the Miller frame photo is at the KT/KX forum.

http://members.tripod.com/kawasakiKT/index-4.html

You can see a set of photos of the buildup of my KT exhaust system there.

Whoops, looks like the Miller photo is on a different page at the KT/KX site:

http://mcswapmeet.tripod.com/ybgallery.html

The KT did come with oil injection, but that has been deleted and it runs premix now. The clutch cable does go into the right side case. Some people will put on a KX250 case that has an external lever.

Those are Fox "Trials Shox" on my KT. You could probably run soft-damping Hagons, Works Performance or Falcons.

Bob Ginder at http://www.bjracing.com/ can supply lots of stuff for vintage trials bikes including your TYs (and he's an active rider with AHRMA).

My website is http://www.eurospares.com

There's about 140Mb of material on it with right at 1600 images. Most everything is competition oriented - MX, trials, RR, Bonneville, frame design and construction, etc etc. There's a mailto: tag at the bottom of each page so if you need more info drop me a note.

cheers,
Michael

[IOWOLF]

In My younger days I had an Ossa 250 Stiletto,70 something.
Man that thing would beat most jap stuff of the day, I went into the Navy and my brother sold it,and kept the money.

I miss the bike, the Brother I still can live without. :)

[mtcw]

I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVEEEEEee to have a mint condition
Penton dirt bike. There was nothing so awe inspiring in my neck of the woods back in the seventies. God I loved the look sound and smell of those things.

[torker]

Michael, Thanks! Wow...did you ever put a ton of time into your website!
There's motorcycles on there I've never heard of...and not just a few either.
Nice job!
Russ

[dp]

Torker;

Where did Tonka Motorcycles go anyway...(was the BC Hodaka importer).Brings back memories when you mention the Hodakas & Bultaco's. My fav. name was the "Combat Wombat". Are those brands still around...? At least Aprillia & Laverda make helicopter parts & farm machinery to stay in business. Ducati/Cagiva makes flywheels & ignition parts for Vespas....

As for trials riders of note, does anyone remember Ed Hertfelder & his column & book(s?) from Motorcyclist or Cycle magazine..."The Duct Tapes"...?
Shades of trials at Ioco in the '80's in the rain....& mud.
I had fun.
Rick

Combat Wombat's still show up on Ebay, and each year the Hodaka gang has a reunion in Oregon - great time to get any spare parts you might need. I have a street Wombat 125 but in 1981 I had a combat wombat - what fun. Plenny toads out there, too, and lots of spare parts.

I used to race district 37 desert in Socal in the 1970's and loved that time and the friends. My last race scoot was a Yamaha 360 RT. Damn it was quick. The brakes were terrible and would lock up in a blink, but the bike weighed nothing compared to the Rickman Metisse Triumph sleds we had at the time. I broke my back twice in 1972 on that bike. I was in the Checkers MC then - see more at the movie 'On Any Sunday', and look for checkered helmets. We *owned* the desert :)

[pntrbl]

dp, ex District 37 racer myself but in the late 70's to early 80's. The Barstow to Vegas race was resurrected in 83 and that was my last.

Desert races are dead engine starts. A banner goes up 60 seconds from the start and a quiet descends on the crowd and sometimes hundreds of motorcycles. You're poised with your foot on the kickstart watching it and that will be the longest minute of your life ......

SP

[torker]

Torker;

Where did Tonka Motorcycles go anyway...(was the BC Hodaka importer).
Rick
Geez, Rick you got me there. Back then the only dealer I knew of was Trev Deeley. I never saw another Hodaka out here either.
I can't remember who was selling the Bultacos and Huskys that used to make their way here.
We thought it was strange when a Kawasaki dealer popped up here...."What... a GREEN bike...HAHAHAHAHAA. They'll never sell those"
Guess we were wrong huh?
Russ

[Evan]

By the way (as Colombo used to say), today is the first day of my retirement. Seems pretty good, so far.

Welcome to the club Allan. I retired at the beginning of the year. I'm still trying to get over the feeling that I am playing hooky from school. Thought it would bother me not having a more or less regular income but it gives me more time to manage my investments. Made 11K on the market last week. :D

I won't get started on the bikes I have ridden, worked on and crashed. Suffice it to say that I am still here but sometimes I wonder why.

[tattoomike68]

I love the old TY 250's the last Time I rode one I went up a 20 foot cliff and pulled a wheelie at the top and just then the chain came off and down I went.

It was worth a laugh to everyone who saw it.

[doug931]

Oh, the memories! I bought my first real dirtbike, A Hodaka Ace 90, in Naniamo, in 1964. I got into trials riding in 67, Bought my first Bultaco Sherpa T, rode competively around Calgary thru the seventies.I still have three trials bikes, 325 Sherpa T, Tl250 (Honda) and a homebrew 250 Triumph for classic events.
Only problem is my knees are so shot I can,t stand on the pegs much anymore.
I also restored, and still have, seven BSA,s, six Triumphs and two Nortons.
To bring this back on topic, I bought my first lathe to work on bikes. The 250 Triumph trials has a special 14 tooth countershaft sprocket I made. I annealed and cut the teeth of a stock 19 tooth triumph sprocket, then cut the centre out of an aftermarket 14 tooth. Welded together,quenched and tempered. The rear wheel with 50 tooth came from a Husky. This bike is fun to ride.
One of the three bkes in my living room is a Norton Harley cafe bike. A 1941 HD 45 Magnum (Sporty top end), shoehorned into a Norton featherbed frame, with Norton primary and gearbox.
In the last year I aquired both a 1968 BSA Rocket Three and a 1976 Triumph Trident.
I still got a lot of riding to do, and the snow is dissapearing fast! Take care everyone, and ride safe. Doug in Cold Lake.

[Michael Moore]

Russ, my website has been neglected the last couple of years and is due for a good sprucing up. I've got lots of stuff to put up, but I want to move things into new spots before I dump more things on the site.

Doug, I too bought my first machine tools to let me work on my race bikes. Machine shops were expensive and often not open late Saturday night before a Sunday race. :)

I did a cut and weld to retooth the dished aluminum sprocket on my KT250. It seems to work fine.

Hodaka Days at Athena is fun, and I'd recommend people go if they are in the area and it is an easy trip. It was a pretty long drive from the Bay Area.

cheers,
Michael

[torker]

Holy Smoke! I had no idea there where so many ol' bike nuts around here.
Michael...You have MORE?? Surely your site has to be on a lot of peoples bookmarks!
Doug, yer just plain greedy :D You have so many bikes I'm wondering where you put your machines.
I'm finding out where your at...on a smaller scale. I now have 5 bikes in my lil' shop. Have to move 4 of them out to do any work.
Had another fun night. Riding the TY 175 up and down a logging road with a screwdriver in my left hand...tuning the carb to get a wicked flat spot out of the lower rpm range.
Finally got it working good and then the tranny got hard to shift once it got warm. I've read that there's some kind of linkage under a cover on the left side that gets rust in it and prevents the shifter from working properly. Every thing looks good under the clutch side and all the oil is fresh. I'll have to pull that apart tomorrow and have a looksee.
Finally got the 175 up in the rocks tonight. It doesn't have the torque that the 250 has but is much lighter and a little handier on the wet logs etc.
And yes...I'm glad I have my machines to make parts for these old things.
Russ

[wierdscience]

Russ,I could have supplied you with that tank a year ago.My brother had a 175 in the back of my shop since about 1986 or so.I got tired of tripping over it and asked him if he wanted it,he said no and I picked it up over my head,toted it out the shop and flung it on the scrap trailer:D Best feeling I had in awhile seeing that shin buster gone:D

[Willy]

Russ, before you tear into the transmission or linkage check the clutch free play with the bike fully warmed up.If the free play is marginal with the bike cold it probably will not be releasing fully when the clutch is completely warm.This is usually the easiest thing to check for when shifting is hard on a bike that shifts well when it is cool.As the clutch expands when it gets hot it will take up the free play and drag slightly when the clutch is disengaged...usually the first clue is a hard to find neutral.
Good luck and ride safe...those old bones don't heal as fast as they did twenty or thirty years ago.;)

[torker]

Willy, Thanks! That could also be the problem. The clutch is out of adjustment somewhere. It only startes to grab when the lever is let out all the way. The clutches don't look burned.
The other things is...I'm still waiting for a manual.
I hear you about the bones...I'm still all black and blue from the crash on my YZ a couple weeks ago.
Russ

[torker]

Russ,I could have supplied you with that tank a year ago.My brother had a 175 in the back of my shop since about 1986 or so.I got tired of tripping over it and asked him if he wanted it,he said no and I picked it up over my head,toted it out the shop and flung it on the scrap trailer:D Best feeling I had in awhile seeing that shin buster gone:D
LOL! I can relate how it feels to turf something you don't like!