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CCWKen
04-09-2007, 09:03 PM
After a lot of interruptions and three false starts, I finally finished the armature rewind for a generator. This is tedious work. As you can see from the pictures, The outer end of each coil had to be numbered and held loose until all the coils were wound. I suppose if you did this a lot, numbering wouldn't be necessary but it was for me. :confused:

I have another to do and it should go faster now that I have insulators already cut and a map made for rewinding. I could have purchased a rewound armature for $99 but this was a worthwhile learning experience as well as sense of accomplishment.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/CCWKen/Projects/Model%20T/GenRebuild/Armature-Rewind-a1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/CCWKen/Projects/Model%20T/GenRebuild/Armature-Rewind-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/CCWKen/Projects/Model%20T/GenRebuild/Armature-Rewind-4.jpg

charlie coghill
04-09-2007, 09:06 PM
Nice work Ken. In another life I had a chance to learn to rewire motors but before I got too far I was transferred and never got the chance again.

Bguns
04-09-2007, 09:11 PM
Nice job,
I have a couple 26 T projects :) and that looks like doable thing for me to try.

CCWKen
04-09-2007, 09:18 PM
Thanks Charlie. You should consider yourself lucky. I'm not sure I could take sitting all day doing this for a living. I think the interruptions helped keep my sanity. :eek:

Bguns - It is doable. As soon as someone says "you can't do that", I see it as a challenge. Go for it! When you're ready, let me know. I have a map of the windings. The total wire length is about 155'. There's 21 coils of 10 turns each.

Ken_Shea
04-09-2007, 09:48 PM
Very impressive Ken,
Looks extremely tedious which gets you an extra gold star.

That would probably not be a good time for someone to stand over you shoulder saying 23-12-11-4-19-2 :D

john hobdeclipe
04-09-2007, 10:04 PM
Impressive!

Is this totally back to original specs, or will it be an improvement over the original in any way?

CCWKen
04-09-2007, 10:29 PM
This is bone stock John. As I removed each old coil, I measured, mapped and logged. This is my first so I wasn't sure what I was up against or what I was going to run into. I tried to document as best I could. It's a "simple" wave winding but I'm not experienced enough to modify the design. I feel good to just get it back the way it was. :D

This is for a Model T generator. 6vdc, 10A. They use a third brush to drive the field winding. One of these days I'd like to try to use a T case and convert it to an alternator (12v ~40A).

wierdscience
04-09-2007, 10:56 PM
Nice job,is that spray on varnish or baked?

CCWKen
04-09-2007, 11:07 PM
Nice job,is that spray on varnish or baked?
Just brush-on Glyptal and baked. ;)

rotate
04-09-2007, 11:35 PM
Excellent work.

I have couple of questions.

1. How is the wire attached to the commuator? Is it soldered or brazed?

2. The copper commutator looks to be in a good condition, but if that needed servicing how would have repaired that? I guess one can machine it down on a lathe but is it something that you can replace?

Mike Burdick
04-10-2007, 12:08 AM
Ken,

The things you accomplish are amazing! When I see your name on a new thread I know I'm in for a surprise. One thing I have noticed about your work is that it is never just "half-way" or something that's just "good enough" to get by - it's always the very best. :)

Just curious...did your father instill those values in you?

CCWKen
04-10-2007, 12:32 AM
The wires are soldered. Each end was scraped of coating, tinned then precoated with solder. (This is some of the tedious work.) After the wires are punched down on the comm, the segment is heated to remelt the solder and make the connection.

The commutator can be re-cut to clean up. I normally don't cut them deep unless they need it. I'll make skim cut just to make sure the comm runs true to the bearing surface. If you turn the comm much, the mica needs re-cut too. In most cases, a polish with a 3M pad is enough.

I wish I had saved the site I ran across when looking for motor winding tips. It was a place that made/sold commutators and all sorts of insulators. It was a motor supply shop. This comm was in good shape but I had to cut all the insulation. (More tedious stuff.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/CCWKen/Projects/Model%20T/GenRebuild/Armature-Rewind-a3.jpg

CCWKen
04-10-2007, 12:43 AM
Ken,

The things you accomplish are amazing! When I see your name on a new thread I know I'm in for a surprise. One thing I have noticed about your work is that it is never just "half-way" or something that's just "good enough" to get by - it's always the very best.

Just curious...did your father instill those values in you?

Aah shucks Mike. :o Thanks for the complement. I suppose he did but I guess I'm a little A-R when it comes to some things. If I'm getting paid for it, I try to do my very best. If I'm building a barn, some things can slip. But I do have to keep telling myself; "It's just a barn". ;)

Fasttrack
04-10-2007, 01:00 AM
Aah shucks Mike. :o Thanks for the complement. I suppose he did but I guess I'm a little A-R when it comes to some things. If I'm getting paid for it, I try to do my very best. If I'm building a barn, some things can slip. But I do have to keep telling myself; "It's just a barn". ;)


Don't be under-estimating barns... If billy-bob thorton can build a rocketship in his barn, just think what you could do in a well thought out, well built, "professional" barn.

darryl
04-10-2007, 01:30 AM
That is one fine job, Ken. I've rewound a lot of armatures in my day, from so small you almost can't see it to something about that size, and that one looks as good or better than any I've done. Last one I did was to change a 36 volt motor to 12 volt so I could run it from one battery. I don't know how long the brushes will last, but we'll see.

I've got an armature on the desk right now that's being lengthened (more laminations) and is waiting on me to make a new shaft for it, which will have a threaded end for a keyless chuck on it. It's for my latest project, a drill press for the lathe. The motor will direct drive the chuck, and is being made from two anti-skid brake system motors. These are four pole motors and are quite torquey already, so the combining of two into one should give enough torque to drive the largest drill bit I'd be using in it, without needing gears. I have yet to figure out the number of turns, but I plan on converting this one upwards to run on about 50 volts or so. This should keep the current draw within something reasonable for the brushes.

I'm sure glad this is a hobby for me. I could never make any money on this kind of thing. So time consuming.

Mike W
04-10-2007, 02:00 AM
Nice job on that. I once had an alternator with groves in the slip rings. I set it up in the lathe and turned the slip rings. They were almost perfect. I made one last cut and ran out of copper. It is in a box sitting on a shelf somewhere in the garage.

PTSideshow
04-10-2007, 05:58 AM
Sweet very nice job

slowtwitch
04-10-2007, 06:39 AM
I rewound a ton of armatures, in my days with Westinghouse and I will have to say..........very nice job :D

pete

ammcoman2
04-10-2007, 08:29 AM
One little trick for prepping insulated wire for soldering is to dip the end in a bath of molten solder. It strips the insulation and coats the wire in one step. Good ventilation is a must and temperature control of the bath is advisable. This was the way we prepped wire for welding on a current starting relay at the place I worked in another life!

I was able to fix a headphone lead wire for my son using this method. The wire is so fine that scraping is virtually impossible. BTW his cat had chewed through the cord!

Geoff

Orrin
04-10-2007, 10:07 AM
Beautiful job, Ken. Commendable.

Orrin

abn
04-11-2007, 02:41 AM
Very nice...another skill i'd like to learn before I die.

Evan
04-11-2007, 09:00 AM
I've done some rewinding from time to time. I rewound the stator on a 2000 watt Generac that I mount under the Hood of my Ranger. I used spray on insulation varnish that meets ASTM specs and soaks into the windings very well. I have also done coil winding on my lathe including one coil that was 10,000 turns of # 51 magnet wire. That has a diameter of .0009" and a breaking strength of 10 grams.

However, none of my work is a nice looking as Ken's.

C - ROSS
04-11-2007, 09:29 AM
Ken Good show.

Just one more example of the excellence of this site and the work it's members produce. It gives new a new meaning to the term "home shop".

Keep it up.

Ross

PolskiFran
04-11-2007, 10:13 PM
Great job...again! I don't know what part of that generator looks better, the inside or the outside.

Frank

Wirecutter
04-12-2007, 12:59 PM
Nice work, Ken. As the others have said - you've gone and done it again!

-Mark

Bill in Ky
04-12-2007, 01:16 PM
Great job, to me that just amazing.

KyMike
04-13-2007, 06:23 PM
>>>>I have also done coil winding on my lathe including one coil that was 10,000 turns of # 51 magnet wire. That has a diameter of .0009" and a breaking strength of 10 grams.<<<<



I used to wind some transformer coils but I didn't know they made enamelled wire in that small a gauge. Did you have a special arrangement to maintain constant tension on the wire?

Mike

Evan
04-13-2007, 11:31 PM
That was maybe 15 or 20 years ago. I used a ball bearing spindle to hold the spool with an adjustable friction device so it wouldn't free wheel. I ran a few tests and adjusted the friction device to produce about 5 grams tension. The friction device was a leaf spring with a piece of Teflon on the end pressing on the 1/2" shaft of the spindle which was mounted in bearings. Teflon has no stick/slip and is very easy to adjust for low values of friction as it has very little to begin with.

The winding went without incident and took much less time than setting it up. I used a mechanical turns counter to clock the windings. The coil is used as the pickup on my seismograph. I still have a couple of miles of that wire left.

Wirecutter
04-14-2007, 01:03 PM
The coil is used as the pickup on my seismograph. I still have a couple of miles of that wire left.
So that leaves you with a good start for your particle accelerator. Hows the work going on synthesizing #118 in the periodic table? :D :D

-Mark

speedsport
04-14-2007, 01:15 PM
does it matter if the windings are counter-clockwise or clockwise?

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2007, 04:07 PM
That was maybe 15 or 20 years ago. I used a ball bearing spindle to hold the spool with an adjustable friction device so it wouldn't free wheel. I ran a few tests and adjusted the friction device to produce about 5 grams tension. The friction device was a leaf spring with a piece of Teflon on the end pressing on the 1/2" shaft of the spindle which was mounted in bearings. Teflon has no stick/slip and is very easy to adjust for low values of friction as it has very little to begin with.

The winding went without incident and took much less time than setting it up. I used a mechanical turns counter to clock the windings. The coil is used as the pickup on my seismograph. I still have a couple of miles of that wire left.

Evan, do you have a website that discusses your seismograph?

TMT

TGTool
04-14-2007, 05:04 PM
does it matter if the windings are counter-clockwise or clockwise?

Well, the right hand rule applies to indicate the north pole of the magnetic field relative to the winding direction. At least in the northern hemisphere. That probably means that in the southern hemisphere they're obliged to use the left hand rule to find south, but maybe someone down there can share their experience.

jm

Evan
04-14-2007, 05:31 PM
No online info for the seismograph I'm afraid.

As for the particle accelerator, I just haven't gotten around to building it yet. I have the plans.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/accel.jpg

KyMike
04-14-2007, 05:38 PM
>>>>The winding went without incident and took much less time than setting it up. I used a mechanical turns counter to clock the windings. The coil is used as the pickup on my seismograph. I still have a couple of miles of that wire left.<<<<



Thanks Evan. I would bet such small wire was still a big pain to strip and solder though.

Mike

Buzzer John
04-14-2007, 08:27 PM
Ken, That is one good looking job. Back during the war years (41-45) I went to school to learn to be an electrican. Winding armatures was one of the things I had to learn. Because of the war we could only get single varnshied wire and not much of that. One pull to hard and you had a ground. We would wind the same armature 5 or more times to get it right. The hardest one I wound was an aircraft ID light that was on the end of the yard arm on the ships mast. It melted down and there was nothing to unwind to go by. It took two guesses to get that one close enough to work. You do great work. John

CCWKen
04-15-2007, 12:49 AM
Thanks for all the "flowers" guys. :cool: All I gotta say is that anyone that does this for a living earns every dime! I know I couldn't do it. I can spend days color sanding and polishing a car but this stuff is too tedious. Besides that, you gotta know how to count and remember it. :D

Too_Many_Tools
04-15-2007, 11:59 AM
No online info for the seismograph I'm afraid.

As for the particle accelerator, I just haven't gotten around to building it yet. I have the plans.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/accel.jpg

How a picture or two?

A seismograph is on my list of things to build.

Thanks

TMT