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View Full Version : How are Hertel drill bets?



heidad01
04-11-2007, 02:01 PM
How are Hertel brand drill bits compared to the other US made drills or perhaps good european ones like Dormer or Guhring (spelling?). I was reading thru the PM board and saw that J&L has a 115 pc for sale at about $90 (Item BCDSA-90128M, $100 off regular price). I prefer the screw machine length but for the price, this is something to consider. DavidH.

ckelloug
04-11-2007, 02:08 PM
A 45 second web search indicates that they are owned by Kennametal.

lynnl
04-11-2007, 02:26 PM
I bought the Hertel set from J&L ($89) a few years back. They've certainly served my (non- commercial/professional) purposes well. ...Every bit as well as the odd sizes of the more prestigous name brands that I have.

ahidley
04-11-2007, 03:02 PM
lynnl if your only hammer is a BIG @#%#^%^ HAMMER, then do all your problems look like spikes or tacks????

lazlo
04-11-2007, 03:53 PM
Hertel is a German company that was bought by Kennametal in 1993. I've been morbidly curious if the Hertel tools are still made in Western Europe or the US, since there's never any claim of where the tools originate.

This description on Kennametal's web page might lead you to believe that at least some of the Hertel tooling comes from China:

"In 1993, Kennametal acquired Hertel AG, a tooling systems manufacturer headquartered in Fürth, Germany, with operations throughout Europe and worldwide. This enabled the corporation to compete more effectively in Western Europe, gain better access to emerging markets in Eastern Europe, and offer additional product lines in Asia Pacific. The Asia Pacific effort was further expanded to include manufacturing joint ventures for mining tools in China and a metalworking tool manufacturing plant in Shanghai."

Same deal with Circle C, which is another Kennametal subsidiary. A lot of the Circle C tooling looks identical to the Enco, Travers and KBC Tool house brands (i.e., Chicom). I've got a Circle C boring bar which is pretty nice, but it's not like making a boring bar is rocket science...

pcarpenter
04-11-2007, 04:26 PM
Argh....I am going to be miffed if those are chicom bits. I just ordered a set from J&L as I have been wavering for some time on ordering a similar set from Enco.

Enco seems to nearly always have similar letter-number-fraction sets on sale with the import stuff for about $40 and a no-name USA made set on sale for about $89. If I wanted Chicom bits, I would pay the $40 price or go get them on sale even cheaper from HF (which sells crooked bits). This price from J&L seemed a good deal. I already started to cringe after ordering. I don't want to turn this into a rant about J&L, but I paid another $7 and change in state tax and the order confirmation came back saying (in fine print) that the total they provide also doesn't include shipping.

So...while this looked as good a deal as the set from Enco, It cost me an extra $7 in state tax (J&L has a facility in Chicago) and I am going to get screwed for shipping it looks like....and maybe screwed on the bit set itself. The order info as I placed the order on their web site seemed to imply next-day delivery at no extra and then something later seemed to imply otherwise. In short, if their order summary just listed the shipping charges before I pulled the trigger, I would know what is going on. Some gripe about Enco, but at least I don't have this crap with them...and I can get free shipping.

Paul

Alan Smith
04-11-2007, 04:34 PM
I have been buying Hertel drill bits in the smaller sizes (1-3.5mm) in ten packs from my local supplier (UK) I have to say I'm not really that impressed, they seem to be unusually fragile and the odd bit incompletely ground. I shall be looking for a different manufacturer next time.

aboard_epsilon
04-11-2007, 04:39 PM
They are very good, the bits are quite hard HSS....
you know when you grind them, that they are different from the usual Chinese rubbish ..by their hardness and the sound they make on the grinding stone.
all the best..mark

PTSideshow
04-11-2007, 04:47 PM
Here is another midwest supplier they have a number of stores in different states http://www.productiontoolsupply.com/main.phtml?logo=ptsfront.jpg

I will say up front that since J&L closed their store fronts around here. And PTS is with in 6 miles and the main store is in 13 miles of my door. I have never shipped anything from them I order and pick up the next day.
they have USA drill bits ect and other like all the rest prices aren't bad. And I have used them for years other then the breif period J&L had a store with in a mile of my door. They have a great section in their paper catalog on Bridgies and exploded veiws parts drawings.:D

heidad01
04-11-2007, 04:52 PM
Hi All and thanks for the great information. Since someone mentioned the same drill set from Enco , I checked and Enco has the "made in USA" set of 115 item #301-0005, on sale for $93. That is $93 + free shipping and + 10% off with the discoount code from the Westec show (93.00-9.30=$83.70). Now you can not beat that for 115 pcs of US made drills in a fairly nice box. But the question still is Hertel going to be better that these? By the way I called Enco and they do not have a specific maker for the made in USA ones. DavidH.

lenord
04-11-2007, 04:53 PM
David H.

I use the 135 deg. cobalts from J&L, the Hertel brand. I got the 115 pc. set a few years ago, on sale.
I have had other good and bad brands in the shop. The Hertels are great for my uses.

Their Hertel end mills are not that bad either.

FWIW
Lenord

lynnl
04-11-2007, 04:59 PM
lynnl if your only hammer is a BIG @#%#^%^ HAMMER, then do all your problems look like spikes or tacks????


Is that showing up on my posts? I thought I turned it off.
Those get kinda tiresome to see after a while.

I don't see it in my posts.

BadDog
04-11-2007, 05:08 PM
I like the Hertels that I have. I've got a Huote fractional set that almost slam full of bits (with a few empty bins in the really odd sizes <sigh>) that I got for $30 (bin and bits) at an auction. I don't recall what all I've seen in there, but Hertel and Cleveland are well represented as is, believe it or not, a Japanese brand that also seems very good.

On the other hand, I sometimes need specific letter and number drills for tapping. But there are SO MANY of them, and the sets of good ones are not cheap enough to justify for my rare uses. I've got some good #7s for tapping 1/4-20 like I very frequently do, but what happens when I need to tap something that needs a "J" or something? So I bought a $39 (IIRC) TIN coated chinese set at HF. Figured WTF, how bad could it be? They looked good, and no questions asked if they are bad, so I can return it to the store. I had a BUNCH of #7s to drill for self tapping 1/4" bolts, so I knew I could try it right away. I must have punched 50 holes with that bit going through 1/8 and 3/16 hot roll steel and angle iron. Tried some of the other sizes I was likely to need just to make sure. Frankly, they are well worth the money in my opinion. I finally broke that #7, but it was my fault and I now have 3 Hertel #7s. When I break one, I replace it a "good one", but so far that set is almost 100% ChiCom some several years later. This is the approach I take to lots of things. I started off with a set of Chraftsman HSS taps bought on sale, and replaced as I broke them, at least until that same auction I got the fractional drills at, when I picked up a HUGE set of high end American and Japanese taps for another $30 or so, and they range in most every semi-common thread from 0-80s up to 3/4" (gotta be over 50 lbs of taps, many brand new). So that's another thing to think about, go to some auctions if you can find them local. I never know what I'm going to come home with for a little or nothing. So I'm slowly replacing my chicom crap (which don't get me wrong, it has done the job well enough in *most* cases) with good stuff for very little money. Just takes time, and the chicom sets, with a few targeted purchases, tend to give me that time...

BadDog
04-11-2007, 05:08 PM
Is that showing up on my posts? I thought I turned it off.
Those get kinda tiresome to see after a while.

I don't see it in my posts.
Yep, it's there.

pcarpenter
04-11-2007, 05:10 PM
Since the J&L sale on those is over next week, it may not do any good, but I can post what I find after I get to see mine. I've only got a day or so as they won't arrive until tomorrow and I am going to be away for a week.

Also, that won't be a great test since you really have to use a bit to the point of dullness to know how long it took to get there. Still, I can tell you if they are pretty or not :D

I will give a few of them the roll test, too. I took back a similar set just after buying them at HF. Too many of them were going to make way oversize holes based on the roll test I gave them. I don't expect a drill bit to be on the same order for hole size as a reamer, but I don't expect them to be shaped like a banana until after I made them that way:D

Paul

Uncle O
04-11-2007, 05:14 PM
I posted that heads up over on the PM boards.....I have had a set of those drills for at least 5 years, maybe longer, and I use them every day. They have served me very well. I can't say where they are made now a days, or even where they were made back when I bought them.....YMMV.....
Kerry

madman
04-11-2007, 06:00 PM
For the Money I but Nachi Drills. I drill through tool steels all day no problems with them. Im working now where they only buy china drills haha. They really suck.

pcarpenter
04-13-2007, 11:30 AM
This is no way speaks to the longevity of the Hertl bits, but I received my set yesterday and am very pleased with their appearance. The bits I pulled as samples all rolled as they should and all were stamped USA on the bottom of the bit. They come in a nice Huot index as advertised. You may recall that I complained about the fact that they don't even tell you how much shipping you are paying until they ship...which *is* really annoying. I ended up paying $11 something for shipping and $7 something in tax, but I still got a really nice set of drills. Pictures are not the best as I was in a hurry and the camera lost battery after the third shot I took so focus may have been less than ideal. The pics do show grind quality of the shank although the points are out of focus due to the macro shot.

In any case, I would order them again. Pictures below.

Paul

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n16/pfcarpenter/Herteldrillset1Small.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n16/pfcarpenter/newHerteldrillsSmall.jpg

lazlo
04-13-2007, 11:36 AM
I received my set yesterday and am very pleased with their appearance. The bits I pulled as samples all rolled as they should and all were stamped USA on the bottom of the bit.

That's good to know -- thanks Paul! I'm putting an order in right now...

lazlo
04-13-2007, 11:48 AM
That is $93 + free shipping and + 10% off with the discoount code from the Westec show.

I just tried, and you can't combine the free shipping and the Westec 10% offers:

* You have applied the following promotions:
FSC37M - Free UPS Shipping on orders of $50 or more Remove Promo Code
(Promo code FSC37M cannot be combined with other offers.)


Since the J&L sale on those is over next week

It's in the current flyer, which expires June 15, so you have awhile...

heidad01
04-13-2007, 01:35 PM
Lazlo, sorry about the inaccurate information. I did do this a year or two ago on a call in order and the rep somehow put it through and it worked. I just called them on it and the person I talked to said that they are not supposed to use more than one promo code per order. DavidH.

lazlo
04-13-2007, 05:52 PM
I did do this a year or two ago on a call in order and the rep somehow put it through and it worked. I just called them on it and the person I talked to said that they are not supposed to use more than one promo code per order.

Hmm, thanks David. I wonder if it's worth trying to call customer service. It's pretty late though, and the Westec coupon expires today...

heidad01
04-13-2007, 05:59 PM
The coupon I got at Westec with promo "W73932" has an expiration date of April 30th, if that can help. DavidH.

lazlo
04-13-2007, 06:07 PM
Oh nice, thanks David!

The one Enco emailed me expires today.

Marc M
04-13-2007, 07:20 PM
I purchased the 115 pc Hertel set from J&L for $89 several years ago. Overall, they're a good buy. The only complaints I have is a few of the smaller number drills were a bit bent. Also, I got 2 duplicate bits, which of course made me 2 bits short. I didn't notice it until a year or so later so I just purchased replacement bits. Still, not a bad deal and you're helping to support our economy.

lazlo
04-15-2007, 06:03 PM
The coupon I got at Westec with promo "W73932" has an expiration date of April 30th

By the way guys, these 10% coupons also apply to Enco's sale prices. Like I said earlier, you can't stack them with the Free Shipping coupon, but it's a great deal for relatively light, expensive items.