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ProGunOne
04-29-2007, 02:25 AM
http://www.fugly.com/videos/7346/extreme_recoil.html

JS
04-29-2007, 03:37 AM
wow I bet some shoulders where sore after that.

BigBoy1
04-29-2007, 08:37 AM
While I was working for the military evaluating new indeas, I viewed a demonstration from a person using the 30mm round from the GAU-8 cannon on the A-10 Warthog aircarft as a single shot rifle.

He was demonstrating a single shot rifle he built using this 30mm round. He proposedd that the US Militay buy this rifle and equip the Afghan fighters with it. (This was back in the 1980's when we were supporting the Afghans against the Russians.) He was proposing that a single man fire this rifle in the prone position. However, he would not use his shoulder to shoot it and his demo was done using an 18" dia. tree for the demonstration shots. This project never got off the ground for a variety of reasons, one of which was the extreme recoil and lack of 18" dia. trees in Afghanistan!

Bill

IOWOLF
04-29-2007, 09:17 AM
Those guys are a bunch of pussies.;)

quadrod
04-29-2007, 09:36 AM
that is the 577 t-rex rifle. a BMG 50 uses 210 gn of power and the 577 uses 278.

ProGunOne
04-29-2007, 01:45 PM
I watched it a couple of times. The wife came in here to see what it was that I was laughing so hard at. Blew one hodgies turbin off and the expression and hand gesture (2:13 into the video) another made was to me hilarious. That rifle needed a muzzle break in the worst way. Also, probably a few with broken toes, noticed a bunch were wearing only socks. :D

littlelocos
04-29-2007, 02:02 PM
I did a quick search on the 577 T-Rex and came up with the following specs and comments from Field and Stream.

http://fieldandstream.blogs.com/gunnut/2006/10/just_for_kicks.html

-- and I thought my Savage 99F in .358 Winchester kicked. Of course it only weighs about 6-1/2 pounds. Kicks about like a 12ga magnum.

My father had my brothers and I shooting his 12ga Parker double when we were about 5 years old. Now I know about what we looked like at the time. The rule was that if you wanted to shoot it, you had to shoot it twice -- otherwise later on you would be too scared to shoot it at all. A hand full for a little guy -- but man was it fun!

Todd.

HTRN
04-29-2007, 07:19 PM
The owner of that Rifle is Saeed, the owner of Accuratereloading.com (http://www.accuratereloading.com/). Registered members of the site can see dozens of videos of "marks" being conned into shooting that rifle. He has an even bigger rifle, built on a single shot .50BMG action, that's chambered in .700 Nitro express.

And it doesn't take 278 grains of powder - the largest charge I can find is 186 grains of VVN 550.

And oh, the center of "thumper" development online is AR - at least two cartridges of some note have come out of there: the .600 Overkill, which is even larger and more powerful than the Trex, invented by Dr. Rob "Robgunbuilder" Garrick. And the .550 Magnum (http://hometown.aol.com/goldcoins1/myhomepage/index.html), made from .460 Weatherby brass(less than Ideal - it's a bit short for it, proper brass can be had from Quality Cartridge), around 9000 ft/lbs of ME(!), and is meant to built on CZ safari actions(available from Brownells, around $600), by Neil "RNS" Shirley.

Both Dr. Garrick and Mr. Shirley are denizens of AR, along with Ed Hubel(who's "12 gauge from hell" has made the rounds of most shooting boards), and variety of other lunatics who's belief a rifle isn't proper unless one can stick his thumb down the bore.

I personally want to build a .550, and shoot cast lead in it. I figured it would cost a little less than 2 grand to do, especially now that Boyd's is making laminate stocks for them.


HTRN

quadrod
04-29-2007, 07:56 PM
sorry my mistake on the amount of powder.:o

IOWOLF
04-29-2007, 08:49 PM
And Mine,they are not Pussies they are "marks".

lazlo
04-29-2007, 09:06 PM
I did a quick search on the 577 T-Rex and came up with the following specs and comments from Field and Stream.

"The T-Rex ... sends a 750-grain bullet on its way at 2,400 fps, with 10,000 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. When fired in a 13-pound rifle, this produces 158 foot-pounds of recoil—nearly three times that of a .458."

That's just plain stupid. The Barrett 82A1/XM107 (.50 caliber) has a recoil of around 36 foot-pounds -- less than 4 times the recoil of the T-Rex.
That's in a 28.5 pound rifle with an efficient muzzle brake.

ProGunOne
04-29-2007, 09:26 PM
“sorry my mistake on the amount of powder” “And Mine, they are not Pussies they are "marks" ...............:D :D

cybor462
04-29-2007, 10:30 PM
I hear it has now just become the gun that is issued to all terrorists. More bang for their buck.
It is not a single use weapon but only one shot per person. That is how we can win the war! Break all their shoulders.

HTRN
04-29-2007, 11:52 PM
And Mine,they are not Pussies they are "marks".

"mark"(as in victim of a con) is probably the most accurate term - he especially loves handing this gun to visitors with little to no experience with megabore rifles, and then filming the results. There was one, of a UAE(Saeed's nation of residency) local, who in probability had never fired a gun before, and looking like he had to run around in the shower to get wet, being knocked flat on his ass..


That's just plain stupid. The Barrett 82A1/XM107 (.50 caliber) has a recoil of around 36 foot-pounds -- less than 4 times the recoil of the T-Rex.
That's in a 28.5 pound rifle with an efficient muzzle brake.
Ever tried carrying a 30 pound rifle all day? Also, those wonderful, big muzzlebrakes are DEAFENING. People have reported hearing loss even with plugs and muffs - they get it through bone conduction in the jaw. Many PH's refuse to guide hunters with brakes of any kind, citing hearing loss.

And oh, Semi Auto's are illegal to hunt with in Africa. Military calibers may also be illegal in some countries.

As for the numbers, they're accurate, I plugged it into an online applet for recoil calculations, and came up with numbers almost identical.


HTRN

lazlo
04-30-2007, 12:35 AM
Ever tried carrying a 30 pound rifle all day? Also, those wonderful, big muzzlebrakes are DEAFENING.

Would you rather carry a 30 pound rifle that's useable, or a 13 pound rifle that kicks so badly that it knocks you on your ass? With 158 foot-pounds of recoil, even a WWF wrestler couldn't handle that T-Rex.


As for the numbers, they're accurate, I plugged it into an online applet for recoil calculations, and came up with numbers almost identical.

Oh, I wasn't doubting the numbers -- I was quoting the data that Todd posted from Field and Stream.
My point is that it seems stupid to build a totally uncontrollable rifle.

It reminds me of the bottles of the "World's Hottest Hot Sauce." It gets to the point where they're bottling pure capsaicin oil -- what's the point?

IOWOLF
04-30-2007, 05:39 AM
I hear it has now just become the gun that is issued to all terrorists. More bang for their buck.
It is not a single use weapon but only one shot per person. That is how we can win the war! Break all their shoulders.

Perhaps they should sell it to the French.:D

JRouche
04-30-2007, 02:21 PM
Also, those wonderful, big muzzlebrakes are DEAFENING. People have reported hearing loss even with plugs and muffs - they get it through bone conduction in the jaw. Many PH's refuse to guide hunters with brakes of any kind, citing hearing loss.
HTRN

I have a .300 Weatherby Magnum with a nice KDF muzzle brake. It did make the rifle shootable but yer right. The noise did increase alot. JRouche

HTRN
05-01-2007, 03:07 AM
Would you rather carry a 30 pound rifle that's useable, or a 13 pound rifle that kicks so badly that it knocks you on your ass? With 158 foot-pounds of recoil, even a WWF wrestler couldn't handle that T-Rex.
Wanna bet? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7lhTqWOS5Y) That particular gun is 165 ft/lbs of recoil, at 20 feet/sec. So what does crow taste like?:D It's about TECHNIQUE. If you watch the videos of the guys dropping the guns, they always LEAN BACK. What you should be doing is leaning forward, and then roll with it. also, Megamagnums pay very close attention to things like stock design - you wouldn't believe how big an influence it is - for one thing, all these guns tend to have very wide butts, to spread the energy around, instead of acting like a cleaver. They use thick pads, particularly the Pacy F990 or the Kick EEz pads. They use mercury tubes... Also, it's a matter of tolerance - many people find the recoil of .30-06 unpleasant, while others it doesn't bother at all. One of my favorite rifles is a .375 H&H, who's recoil doesn't bother me in the least, but none of my friends will go near it. While none of the guns in the megamagnum class are "pleasant" to shoot, they're not "unshootable" either.


Oh, I wasn't doubting the numbers -- I was quoting the data that Todd posted from Field and Stream.
My point is that it seems stupid to build a totally uncontrollable rifle.
It is stupid to build an unshootable gun, but who said it was unshootable? The guys in all the video's have little to no experience with firearms, and are handed a rifle with (quite frankly) brutal recoil, and not instructed how to shoot it. Hence the videos.

If you don't believe me, go to Accuratereloading, and ask them.

<Edit> forgot to mention, these guns are commonly threaded for brakes, but the brakes are not tight threaded - the idea is when you go to practice at the range, you leave the brake on(along with plugs and muffs!), but when it's time to go into the field, the brake comes off(they put on a thread protector in its place). Also, the brakes used do mitigate recoil, but nothing like the common monster brake on the .50BMG rifles.


HTRN

lazlo
05-01-2007, 12:07 PM
---double-post deleted--

lazlo
05-01-2007, 12:13 PM
Wanna bet? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7lhTqWOS5Y) That particular gun is 165 ft/lbs of recoil, at 20 feet/sec. So what does crow taste like?:D

The problem is, that's not a video of the 13 lb .577 Caliber T-Rex carbine in the video ProGunOne posted, it's a video of a 4-bore (1.0 caliber) double-barrel rifle, which weighs 31 lbs (in other words, it's heavier than the Barrett). The video you linked is titled "I sure get a "KICK" out of shooting this lil 4 Bore!"

The same guy posted videos more of himself firing the 4 Bore here, and it knocks him back several paces:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9FK8WCZqjE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT5iB7nIs0Y

From the guy in the video: "This one is one inch exactly.A,,o is all custom made,2000gr Jacjets softs and solids!"
I've shot a .300 Weatherby -- is there anything left in the world that's legal to hunt that it won't drop?

Seems to me that those guys are measuring genitalia, but if making a gun with the biggest possible recoil is your thing, more the power to you! :)

HTRN
05-01-2007, 06:20 PM
I know perfectly well what it is, The owner is a member of accurate reloading.

And while weights are not comparable - the recoil energy and velocity are.

"measuring genitalia", because they like shooting large caliber rifles? Isn't that just a little bit childish?:rolleyes: Most of the guys who have these kinds of guns, generally hunt africa, usually for animals like Cape Buffalo. Know what the general rule for hunting dangerous game is? "Carry the biggest rifle you can shoot". Some people, can shoot very, very big guns.

For almost 80 years the gold plated standard of "stopper" rifles was a .577 Nitro Express, in a 14 pound double. Still not as bad as these, but still a hefty amount of recoil. Various .50 wildcats based on the .460 Weatherby have existed for decades, with north of 8000 foot/lbs. The .585 Nyati, developed by Ross Siegfried in the early 80's, makes over 10K foot lbs.

These kinds of guns are nothing new.

What has changed, is the availability of actions for bolt guns. Up until fairly recently, one either used a Brevex action(hard to find, not that great), or you bought a double rifle($$$$). Now, you have a choice of a half a dozen different action designs, some with 750 bolt diameters and 4" magazine lengths.. Varying in price between a several thousand, to just under a grand, they were within reach of the experimental crowd.

AFAIK, only one gun to date has not had it's "Max Load" not reached - the 600 Overkill. Garrick said he gave up before he got signs of pressure, because it became too stiff, but oddly at somewhat reduced(around 10K foot lbs), he said it was "a *****cat", firing off a string of 20 rounds..


HTRN

Your Old Dog
05-02-2007, 07:00 AM
Here's an interesting tale!

I was talking to a firearms dealer and we were talking about some of the fun guns. He tells me about this Doctor who had an African hunt planned and was buying something like a 500 Nitro Express. At the time I think he said the ammo was something like $2.50 a round. So he buys a bunch of ammo and a few of his buddies also bought 5 or 6 rounds apiece just to say they fired a big gun. Well the day comes to test fire the new gun and the Doc and his buddies all go out to the range, the Doc took the first shot and his friends all handed him their ammunition! They had no interest in firing it !

jkilroy
06-21-2009, 11:58 AM
Like an earlier poster said, the vast majority of these guns never have a full box of ammo put through them. I'd guess there is some "compensation" going on here. I see it all the time even just hunting North American game. Bigger is better right?

Try talking to some redneck about how is .300, 7mm, .338 (and yes one grand pu-ba redneck shooting a .458 Win) Super Duper Super Short Nitro Bomb Magnum is just too much gun for whitetails and they will flat call you names!

Roy Weatherby's favorite round was his .257 and that he took darn near every game animal on the planet with it except elephant, and yes that includes cape buffalo. Anyone wanting a .700 bomb-bastic sholder-breaker master-bater is trying to make up for something. :D

JCHannum
06-21-2009, 02:33 PM
This thread is over two years old.

dp
06-21-2009, 03:27 PM
This thread is over two years old.

Not any more :)

Boucher
06-21-2009, 03:46 PM
The old M1 Garand with a Grenade Launcher was supposed to be set on the ground and fired like a mortar. Get drunk and challenge someone to fire it from the sholder and it would make them both smarter and sober at the single pull of the trigger.

HTRN
06-21-2009, 10:22 PM
Roy Weatherby's favorite round was his .257 and that he took darn near every game animal on the planet with it except elephant, and yes that includes cape buffalo. Anyone wanting a .700 bomb-bastic sholder-breaker master-bater is trying to make up for something. :D

Then my opinion of Roy Weatherby has dropped from "shameless self promoter" to "idiot shameless self promoter". Go over to any of the African hunting forums at 24hr Campfire, AccurateReloading, Greybeard, etc. and ask if it's an adaquete round.

Expect heckling.

Everybody who brings up the "they must be compensating for something" theory eventually mentions of Kaj Bell hunting Elephant with a .276 Rigby. What they neglect to mention is A)he did it with steel core ammo for penetration, B)he was a world class shot, and most importantly, C)he had a guide with a stopper, usually a .577 Nitro Express. They also leave out the all the people who died trying to replicate his feats.

Just so you know, virtually every African country where you can still hunt the "big 5" has a minimum bore size of .375, and most PHs recommend a .40 caliber and up for Cape Buff and Elephant.


HTRN

lazlo
06-21-2009, 10:32 PM
The old M1 Garand with a Grenade Launcher was supposed to be set on the ground and fired like a mortar. Get drunk and challenge someone to fire it from the sholder and it would make them both smarter and sober at the single pull of the trigger.

During WW II, the Japanese had the weird Type 89 grenade launcher (a motar, really) that was intended to be set on the ground when fired. occasionally US soldiers would find them and think that it was supposed to be fired off your knees, with drastic consequences:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Japan_Type_89_grenade_discharger.jpg/800px-Japan_Type_89_grenade_discharger.jpg

MickeyD
06-21-2009, 11:48 PM
Back in my heavy hunting days I had an offbrand 24" Italian over and under 12 gauge with 3.5" chambers that weighed just south of 7 pounds. It was intended to be used as a turkey gun, but I used it mostly on waterfowl and sandhill cranes (often called flying ribeyes), which were still legal with lead shot. I got a case of 3.5" 2.25oz copper plated BB turkey loads that were devastating on the cranes even out past 100 yards. The recoil was so bad on the gun that if you selected the bottom barrel as your first shot, it would knock the sear loose on the top barrel and they would go of at virtually the same time, knocking me down in the process. This was 4.5 ounces of shot leaving the barrel at almost 1400fps, not a very pleasant experience especially on warm days without a heavy jacket to buffer it a little. I eventually upgraded to a Beretta Super Black Onyx that still has the long chambers but adds a couple of pounds and real sears, I am getting too old for the crazy stuff. 20 years later the Beretta looks rougher but still shoots like new, but now AA super handicap loads give me pause.

mwechtal
06-22-2009, 12:38 PM
Years ago, one of the gun magazines ran an article on a new 10ga double on the market. I wish I could remember the brand. I believe it was a spanish manufacturer. Basically it was much lower in price than most 10ga doubles on the market at the time. It was intended as a goose gun, and so they tested it with typical goose loads. Fairly quickly they found that it had a nasty tendency to double. Not all the time, but often. The funny thing was that they seemed very enthusiastic about it. Maybe they figured that all that shot going downrange was SURE to get you a goose?

Seastar
06-22-2009, 12:59 PM
I have built several big bore guns and cannons but there is no way I would fire anything like that from the shoulder. My limit is my 7 pound 30-06and it hurts after 5 or 6 rounds.
All of my larger guns are tripod mounted including my 50 caliber guns.
Here is my latest build:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1003/30mmcannon3.th.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=30mmcannon3.jpg)

This is a 30 MM breach loaded, black powder, percussion cap fired gun that I made from a section of 30MM cannon barrel.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3019/30mmcastleadbulletsmold.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=30mmcastleadbulletsmold.jpg)
Here is the bullet mold that I machined, some cast lead bullets and two breach plugs, with nipples for caps, that hold the black powder.
Note that the bullets are "pre-rifled". I used a short section of the barrel in the mold to create the lands on the bullets.
I will fire it for the first time next week.
I use proof loads first to make sure it won't blow up.
Bill

Ries
06-22-2009, 01:53 PM
I saw these a while ago-
20MM rifles.

http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm

ten bucks a round.

I kinda doubt that anyone has used one on a Cape Buffalo, but maybe.

HTRN
06-22-2009, 02:17 PM
Years ago, one of the gun magazines ran an article on a new 10ga double on the market. I wish I could remember the brand. I believe it was a spanish manufacturer.

I think you're talking about an Armsport 10 gauge. You see them every so often at gun shows(I saw one at the Valley Forge show in March), usually 300-400 bucks. This is the first I've heard of a doubling issue with them, and I can't find any reference to it online.


HTRN

MickeyD
06-22-2009, 03:58 PM
One thing that you have to watch out for as you get older is retinal detachment, and heavy recoiling guns can be a significant contributing factor. An old neighbor of mine went through that and it does not look like fun. They basically have to tack weld then inside of your eye back together and hope that if grows back right, otherwise you end up blind.

lazlo
06-22-2009, 04:14 PM
One thing that you have to watch out for as you get older is retinal detachment

The description of that 20mm rifle has a warning that you need to have a minimmum 4" of clearance with the scope eyepiece.

That'll give you some retinal detachment :)

clutch
06-22-2009, 05:06 PM
Would you rather carry a 30 pound rifle that's useable, or a 13 pound rifle that kicks so badly that it knocks you on your ass? With 158 foot-pounds of recoil, even a WWF wrestler couldn't handle that T-Rex.


If we can trust the dear departed Elmer Keith, the bigger you are, the harder the kick. Something about momentum.

Shooting standing has less felt recoil than prone where your whole body is being pushed against.



Clutch

gmatov
06-23-2009, 01:46 AM
Clutch has a point, and Ole Elmer too. My 7 m/m Interarms Mark X 40 some years mine, kicks my ass on the bench. In the woods, shoot at a deer, and the only reason I used that sumbitch on a white tail is that a kid cousin wanted to use my Rem 6 m/m, and it didn't kick at all.

I think Elmer Keith could have absorbed the recoil from the "GUN" whatever it was, in the link. I'll have to reread some of his books to see WHAT all he shot.

That mortar that broke knees was CALLED a knee mortar. Wonder if that was a Japanese disinformation thing or a stupid US translator. I think they were braced BY the knee, as they did not have the other 2 legs of a tripod.

Also, one of the writers I have read talk about 10 ga. goose guns. They mention the water squirting out from under their boots with each shot, as they are driven into the mud.

Kiliminjaro Bell DID kill many elephants with a 7 X 57 Mauser. Fantastic shot, far away from the game shooting from a raised platform, similar to shooting buffalo in the US. Smaller elephants, too, and not in such heavy woodlands.

Cheers,

George

And I don't care that it is reopening an old thread.

lazlo
06-23-2009, 10:44 AM
That mortar that broke knees was CALLED a knee mortar. Wonder if that was a Japanese disinformation thing or a stupid US translator. I think they were braced BY the knee, as they did not have the other 2 legs of a tripod.

It fired a 50mm "grenade" that weighed close to 2 lbs. Now that's extreme recoil :)

A Japanese army soldier demonstrates the use of a Type 89 discharger.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Japanese50mmGrenadeMortar.jpg/225px-Japanese50mmGrenadeMortar.jpg

Some Allied infantrymen mistakenly assumed that the grenade launcher was propped on the leg to fire and thereafter referred to it as a "knee mortar". However, any soldier or marine who tried to fire a captured Type 89 in this fashion received a severe bruise (and sometimes a broken thigh bone) from the hefty recoil.

mwechtal
06-24-2009, 12:28 PM
I think you're talking about an Armsport 10 gauge. You see them every so often at gun shows(I saw one at the Valley Forge show in March), usually 300-400 bucks. This is the first I've heard of a doubling issue with them, and I can't find any reference to it online.

HTRN
That name doesn't ring a bell, but it could be right, this was quite a while ago. Also, it may have been that it was a pre-production model, that was later fixed. It's too long ago for me to remember any details. I was just impressed by them saying something like "Oh yeah it doubled on us quite a few times, but it's still a good gun for the money". I wondered if the testers might all be built like King Kong.;)