Where does one begin?

[grannygear]

Gentlemen,

I just noticed with a lot of surprise that I've been a member of this BBS since Setember of 2002. Oh my, how time flies.
In that time I've read a whole lot, but I haven't contributed all that much. If you've figured out that I'm not much of a machinist, you're right.

I've been a decent mechanic most of my life, working on boats, bicycles, motorcycles and cars (personally, not professionally). I've done some welding, some carpentry, and lots of banging things with a sledge hammer. I freely admit my skills are those of the novice, nothing more. I am however a tool freak and will happily dive into any project that requires me to take something apart or put it back together (with mixed results).

But now it's time to get serious. I don't want to be a voyeur anymore, I want to be in the picture. Assume I (or someone out there like me) know nothing. Assume that I live in China and can buy cheap but serviceable machine tools to output a small, competent shop (for a hack). The tools I have or will get. What I need is information.

I need to buy some books, and/or CDs, for the beginning amateur machinist. What can I get from Amazon, for example, to establish a foundation of skills that will help me get started in turning out simple useful things from metal? Initially my needs will be mostly for repair / replacement parts for said bicycle and motorcycle, but I want to have more sophisticated skills in the future. Knowing what you all know now, where would you begin (if you could do it all again)? Thanks in advance, and thanks for putting up with me all this time.

[lazlo]

The Starrett Book for Student Machinists.

How to Run a Lathe (South Bend Lathe Works)

Milling: A Complete Course (Workshop Practice) by Harold Hall

[Joel]

This subject gets covered a lot, so a search should yield a lot of good opinions.

First, for the basics: SouthBends "How to run a lathe"
Second: "Machine shop practice" volumes 1 and 2, by Karl Moltrecht.
Third: Modern machine shop's "Handbook for the metalworking industries", which is essentially an updated and easier to use Machinery's handbook.

"The amateurs lathe" by L.H. Sparey is another good one.
There are also several decent textbooks to be had, like "Machine tool practices".

[oldtiffie]

Gentlemen,
.........................................
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I need to buy some books, and/or CDs, for the beginning amateur machinist. What can I get from Amazon, for example, to establish a foundation of skills that will help me get started in turning out simple useful things from metal? Initially my needs will be mostly for repair / replacement parts for said bicycle and motorcycle, but I want to have more sophisticated skills in the future. Knowing what you all know now, where would you begin (if you could do it all again)? Thanks in advance, and thanks for putting up with me all this time.

Well, I got a terrific reference for a book from Marv Klotz' site.

It's name is "A Guide to Manufacturing Machine Shop Practices - Machine Shop Trade Secrets" by James A Harvey, published by ProShop Publishing.

Harvey has been "in the game and around the traps" as a practicing machinist for many years - and it shows in his book.

It is both written and published in the USA and is an outstanding reference book. It would have answered many of the queries that I've seen on this forum.

The web site is at: www.ProShopPublishing.com

I refer to it often - so it is well used and not just another "coffee-table" or "book-shelf" book by any means. And its got the "dog-ears" and workshop soiling (dirt, oil, grease etc.) on it as well.

I've been at this game for a long time and cannot speak too highly of this book.

Having said that, I do not detract from any of the other publications that have been suggested in this thread.

Best of luck.

[lazlo]

Second: "Machine shop practice" volumes 1 and 2, by Karl Moltrecht."

Moltrecht is fantastic, but mentioning that to a newbie is like suggesting "War and Peace" as a First-grade reading primer. :p

[rbregn]

The best place to start is from someone who already knows. That being said probably the books already mentioned. What you need to do first is learn to sharpen your tools right first. one for right hand cutting, left hand cutting, and threading, and then make something with them. Start basic draw a simple stepped shaft and make it to your dimensions. Practice when you have that down add threads feed in with your compound set at 29.5 degrees so your tool only cuts on the leading edge. Practice with that. Once you have those to things down. It is your imagination that will limit you. I believe most jobs on the lathe and mill is 90 percent set up once you understand the operations and controls of your machines. If you can figure out out to hold something safely and rigid. all that is left is to remove what doesn't belong.:D Obviously it is more complicated then that. But if you are mechanically inclined. Once you learn the basics of your machines the rest is up to you. I had 2 great teachers and a bunch of smart coworkers throughout my career, so I can't help with the books. But if you need some help I'm in Nanjing just a train ride or two away! Although I doubt if I could get into my shop here. Good luck with it and hope you have fun with also.:cool:

[JCHannum]

The Moltrecht books are an excellent starting point. I would also recommend the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation over the South Bend Manual. It has the same information and more than the SB manual as well as tables of gear changes and other information.

One does not need to sit down and read a manual such as the Moltrecht books from cover to cover, but is better served to read a section at a time, and with book in hand, operate the machine to produce a part.

While it is nice to have a large library of sources, the beginning HSM might be better served to stick with one or two books at the start, and get the techniques down. There are many different methods and opinions on how to accomplish a task, no one necessarily better than another, only different. Until one develops a grasp of the fundamentals, too much information can be as damaging and confusing as too little.

[BigBoy1]

My local community college has a basic machine tool course to provide training for those who wants to be machinists. Also, they have a plan that if you are more than 65, you can attend for free. I took the machine shop course and it was great if you can stand being in class with a bunch of teenagers!

The textbook for the course was excellent as it delt in depth with just about all of the different machine tools that any machine shop would have. The book is, "Machine Tool Practices" by Kibbe, Neely, Meyer & White. I have the 6th edition but later editions have come out. Maybe a used book store near a school that teaches machine shop would be a good place to find a used one cheap.

Bill

[Willy]

In my opinion all the above suggestions are excellent, you can't go wrong with any of them...preferably all of them.
But to the list I would like to add two of my favorites.

For a good general overview and basic fundamentals I like Machining Fundamentals by John R. Walker....http://www.goodheartwillcox.com/products/detail.asp?id=201

And my choice as shop bible is, Handbook For The Metalworking Industries, a shop reference loaded with a wealth of knowledge and general information that will be used daily...http://www.mmsonline.com/handbook/

[SGW]

A couple of thoughts:

Don't be afraid to just start making chips. Doing so will immediately raise specific questions, which will direct your thinking to finding answers.

Realize that learning machinist skills is a long-term proposition. Don't be impatient. Cultivate patience. Doing this stuff as a part-time hobby, I estimate it took me at least 10 years before I had equipped a shop I was reasonably satisfied with, and enough knowledge to feel as though I mostly knew what I was doing.

[Carld]

Well, I can certainly second the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation and it was printed for Craftsman as well. I have several different editions and they are all excelent.

[grannygear]

Thanks to everyone for your helpful suggestion, much appreciated.

I too used to live in a place that had an excellent Junior College - I took some electronics courses there, but not the machine shop program (which I now regret). But I really am stuck in China, so there's no way to get the formal education that I crave.

However, on this subject I am patient. I realize there will be a long learning curve but I'm already somewhere along that curve, not at the very beginning. The subject is one of life-long fascination so I've no fear of boredom or burnout.

There are a few advantages and disadvantages to this environment that I'm in, which I think a few others can attest to by their experience.

One, it's easy and cheap to rent or buy a small shop / garage space to work in. There are in China millions (not kidding) of such concrete shells, which serve as the ubiquitous multi-purpose space for mom-and-pop stores, restaurants, repair shops, storage sheds, etc. So space is no problem.

Two, machine tools abound. Not so sure about the quality, but prices are cheap and everything I need is just down the road.

Disadvantage - everything is made in China, for Chinese. Meaning, Chinese language controls. And I'll have to carry a dictionary of technical terms with me to the hardware store, to explain what a fly cutter is. Challenges, challenges....

Can't wait to get started. Thanks again.

[wierdscience]

This is one of my favorites-

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=0471057886&sts=t&y=13&x=47

It's a textbook,covers everything from bench work to lathes,mills,shapers and even cnc.It's also cheap used:D

[gmatov]

I am going to have to go a little against the general wisdom, here.

Machining, at least machine by machine, is not all that difficult to learn.

I had electrical and sheetmetal and wood in HS, no metal turning. Basic machining in the Navy, no actual hands on, in Diesel school, no use on my boat. No machines.

Advance to the Westinghouse, couple years assembling large rotating apparratus. Bid on a Boring mill job. 56" Bullard Cutmaster, 2 week qualifying period. Make good pieces in that time, the job is yours.

Did, and worked VTLs from 36" to 20 foot for the next 10 years. Count the screwups on one hand, and most weldable, remachine.

I have more screwups on my minilathe and my SB9 than I ever did in that time. Smaller stock, can climb the tool. 3/8 bar can bend and whip. Throw it away and start over. You don't start over with 25 tons of "stock", complex weldment. Goofups get welded and you do it over again.

Every other machine in the plant worked the same way. Bid on a lathe, 2 weeks and good work, you were a lathehand, or same with milling machine, DP, whatever.

Some were adequate, some became masters, BUT, on ONE type machine. VTL and horizontal lathe may be the only equals in this example.

I know when I bought my mini-mill, I was lost, but, without a book, started cutting. Break a cutter, big deal, I have lots of them, know now that I was either feeding too fast or cutting too deep or running too slow. Mostly running too slow.

'Nother thing I forgot is that I spent 15 years as a machinery repairman there. HATED working on milling machines. Bought mine, sat down before it, started cutting, all them little go**amned needles get in your shoes, clothes, everywhere. Lathe/VTL, you grind your tool right, you can make little elbow mac chips if you got the right material. SS, you are more likely to get stringers.

Long and the short of it is, go buy the machine, sit or stand before it and cut stock. You screw up a piece, try again. If stock is costing you too much for practice, go buy some CHEAP long bolts. Saw off the head, chuck it up and go to town.

The only thing that is holding you back is the fear that you don't know enough. I'd wager that half the people here who are strictly Home Shop went through the same. "I just bought a machine, NOW what do I do?"

Them who have equipped a Home Shop, who worked IN a shop, have an advantage. They KNOW that a particular machine is a piece of crap, and, too, they know that, if their boss was buying old iron, they were handicapped from the start. They'd have to make allowance for the machine's inadequacies.

STILL make good parts, that is what makes a Machinist.

Cheers,

George

[mlucek]

Long and the short of it is, go buy the machine, sit or stand before it and cut stock. You screw up a piece, try again. If stock is costing you too much for practice, go buy some CHEAP long bolts. Saw off the head, chuck it up and go to town.

Excellent advice !!


The only thing that is holding you back is the fear that you don't know enough. I'd wager that half the people here who are strictly Home Shop went through the same. "I just bought a machine, NOW what do I do?"
Oh boy, did that one hit home for me !!! LOLOL :D

I bought a Sherline lathe and a mill over 2-1/2 years ago !! I finally got around to really using the lathe just a few weeks ago, and used the mill just to drill a few holes. Think I was really afraid to use them, feeling I wasn't ready, didn't know enough. Yet have been taking machine shop classes for the last few years at the local community college.

Using the desktop lathe was almost the same as the full-sized machine, just taking smaller/lighter cuts. GEEEEEZZZZZZZZ Why did I wait so long ?? duhhhhhhhhhh. Over the next week, I wound up using the lathe for 5-6 hours and turned out good parts. So yeah, you gotta just get used to your machine(s), work with them, make bad parts/screwups and continue on ! I did and I did :p

Now to start my next little steam engine and get busy getting comfortable with the mill at home !

Mike

[Mcgyver]

motrecht should be part of the library, but imo the lengthy coverage of subjects would make it a bit tedious for a beginner.

get what ever grade 11 & 12 machine shop text the local high school uses (used), older the better. it will cover 90% of common machine shop operations and is written so that, well, so that a child could understand :D I'd phone up the machine shop teacher or tech director to ask what text he recommends he may just be so completely bloody surprised that he'll give you a natted up copy. I have Machine Shop Operations and Setups by Porter and Technology of Machine Tools by Krar, no idea if they are still in print, but they'd be good books for the beginner.

[Tin Falcon]

Grannygear:
There are many "old" machine manuals and machining books available for download. Military manuals can be a good source.
This may be a bit trite but the old reading writing an 'rithmatic aplies here. Read as many books a you can get your hands on. Write what you are learning from reading and doing in a bound note book and brush up on your math algebra and trig. Learn the basic formulas for speed ,feed etc . Here an old shop math book will help. A scientific calulator is a very useful shop tool. The Machinerys hand book any edition is pretty much a must have also big tool catalogs are a plethera of information.
hope this helps.
tin

[grannygear]

Again, thanks to all for the helpful suggestions and encouragement.

I definitely am not hesitant about diving in, but I'm not going to go half-cocked, for safety reasons. I will digest a good dose of relevant information first, and then start cutting. Not worried about making mistakes, as I will be doing simple repair-type work to start. Have already started my research on the books recommended and I'm having a gas. Math is already pretty good but I can always get better.

Cheers!

[jacampb2]

I found this online when I first bought my lathe. A lot of the information is outdated, but I still read it all and printed it off and threw it in a binder to read in my shop. I believe it is the text from some schools textbook, but after the google search turned up the one chapter, I managed to sort all the links out to the various chapters.

http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/index.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/ch1.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/ch2.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/ch3.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/ch4.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/ch5.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/ch6.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/ch7.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/ch8.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/ch9.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/appa.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/appb.pdf
http://uhv.cheme.cmu.edu/procedures/machining/appc.pdf

I am not sure if they intended for it to be publicly available, but it was some interesting information, and answered a lot of beginner questions I had.

Hope that helps,
Jason