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torker
06-25-2007, 12:57 AM
Hi guys! I'll be moving into my new place this coming Friday. I want to put a 30X30 (ish) addition onto the present (fugly) 24X30 steel clad/wood frame shop.
I'm thinking either a prefab metal building or cinder block. I used to work for an old stone mason and we put up a couple of good sized buildings....long, long ago. I'm sure I could still do the block work but I'm going to be very busy running the new business and doubt I'll have time to "relearn" the brickworking experience. I seem to remember that I hated working with those blocks anyway.
I've never had anything to do with putting up a mechano set building but have heard you can put up a fair size shop in a matter of days.
I'm a little concerned about insulation with the steel building. Anyone know what they use to insulate these nowadays? It gets pretty cold here in the winter(for about 6 months of the year :D) so I want the warmest solution I can build.
This will be the fab part of my shop so I need a good fireproof structure.
I'd put up a stick building in a heartbeat but the insurance rates will kill me if I'm welding/etc. in it.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Russ

Evan
06-25-2007, 01:23 AM
Put up a stick building with slab on grade and foam under the slab, insulate walls normally but instead of drywall use cement board on the walls. They have cement board now that is as easy to install as drywall, score, snap and screw on just the same except it is rated as fireproof. Tape joints and mud too if you want.

torker
06-25-2007, 01:32 AM
Evan...I like the sounds of that! I can whip up a 2X6 stick building in a couple days. Never heard of the cement board. I may have to run that by my insurance guy (cringe). I had to spend half a day with him going over the place. They're being awful picky nowadays.....and awful expensive for the business end of this place.

Evan
06-25-2007, 01:42 AM
Here is an example of what I am talking about.

http://www.usg.com/navigate.do?resource=/USG_Marketing_Content/usg.com/web_files/products/prod_details/DUROCK_Brand_Cement_Board.htm

torker
06-25-2007, 01:42 PM
Thanks Evan! Hey you know what's funny? My insurance guy (Todd) just moved here from Williams Lake last year. I mentioned you to him. He named a computer store or two but I never knew the name of your business so he wasn't sure if he knew you or not.

Evan
06-25-2007, 02:12 PM
I think he was my insurance guy too. Nice guy IIRC. He managed to get me life insurance as a non-smoker because I only ever smoke a pipe, never anything else and that qualified me as a non smoker. My business name is Viking Technical Services.

BTW, use that board on the outside too and with a tin roof you will have a very fire proof building.

torker
06-26-2007, 12:10 PM
I went and looked at a shop today that has been converted to a fab shop. Was a stick building with drywall innerds. They put up galvanized steel roofing all around inside. Maybe another option. Also found out...a cinder block building today costs over 3 times as much as a wood frame building.
OUCH!

pcarpenter
06-26-2007, 03:07 PM
Russ-- before I had my post-frame (steel roof and siding) building constructed, I was thinking about a traditionally constructed stick frame garage. I ended up with a larger building (all directions) for about the same money when comparing constructed prices. I was going to have it built and then finish the internals myself, either way. I was just too busy to build it myself, and once I figured out that a post frame was the way to go, I realized that I knew too little and did not have the equipment to do it easily myself. It went up in three days and could have been two but for a foreman hurting his back. After watching these monkeys crawling around all over it to put up the steel, I am glad I had it done. They earned thier keep.

I was going to insulate myself, and when checking prices of materials, I found a local insulation contractor could put in the wall bats cheaper than I could buy them elsewhere. Nuff said. I don't like fiberglass in July anyway;) They use roll insulation that is what is known as pole barn insulation. It's 6" thick and 4' wide. Two batts just fit between each post and are hung vertically with a tack strip at the top. The attic area is blown with 13" of shredded fiberglass. You can heat it with a candle if you are patient enough. First season, I had nothing but a 1500w electric heater used just to bring it to mid 50's while I worked on the walls and electrical. The place never dropped below freezing all winter despite only having limited heat on a couple days a week. Solar heating through the windows helped...but so did limited heat loss.

Edit-- you get a pretty good R-factor since there is a 1-3/4" (2x4 thickness) dead air gap between the steel and the insulation due to the outside stringers and the same on the other side of the plastic for the stringers that the interior wall sheathing (OSB in my case) is nailed to.

Good luck!

Paul

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n16/pfcarpenter/shop%20construction/liftingwallsSmall.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n16/pfcarpenter/shop%20construction/endofday1Small.jpg

torker
06-28-2007, 01:31 AM
Paul, That's a darn nice shop you have there. I asked around today and nobody here does that kind of construction. Has a real "industrial" look to it.
I like the idea of the heavy duty posts. They'd be good to mount a lot of interesting gadjets to I bet. The uninterupted insulation areas would actually be pretty effective as well. More so that a standard frame building with the insulation separated far more than on yours.
I spent an hour bs'n with the insurance guy today. He dug up a bunch of stuff on fab/welding shops and it seems I can use a standard frame up with drywall as long as the walls are covered with steel sheet(old roofing metal or whatever) that they can live with. The sheets have to have a top cap on them so the sparks don't fall in behind it. They're very picky about ventilation systems now as well. That is a good thing though. I've worked in a lot of welding shops where you couldn't see the other side of the building as the smoke was too thick...day in and day out. I'm sure that's healthy as all get out :D

Evan
06-28-2007, 02:25 AM
Russ,

That construction is called Post and Beam around here. It's common for barns and outbuildings. I'm surprised no one there does it. My attached garage shop is post and beam construction. It's easy and quick.

I would still go with the cement board panels. It's probably cheaper than drywall covered in metal and it's 100% fire rated. Cariboo Pulp and Paper in Quesnel has the entire mill covered in corrugated cement board panels. It pretty popular for industrial buildings.

Mcgyver
06-28-2007, 07:32 AM
were it me, I'd be looking for something that it could insulate like crazy, energy prices are not going down and a cold shop in the winter takes all the fun out of it. I've seen those post and beans numerous times as driving sheds and the like, but if you are to insulate, you need to sheath the inside right?

1) what kind of centres are the posts on - can you sheath in drywall or concrete as Evan suggest. iirc it can be a long way between centres and how accurately aligned are the posts - some i've seen use posts, like in the round, and they do not provide a flat, regular surface to attached sheathing to.

2) once the inside was covered, could the cavity be filled with some sort of blow in insulation?

3) how do you insulate the roof, the largest area of heat loss

good for you Russ, you must be excited

Your Old Dog
06-28-2007, 07:46 AM
Anybody know if post and beam construction is just another name for "pole barn" construction? I have an idea they are the same and are popular with farmers everywhere because they are do the job and are much less expensive. Good luck on your project Torker, hope to see you on Wall Street :D

Iceman Motorsports
06-28-2007, 08:44 AM
I have three of these. Two are insulated with steel ceilings and 24" insulation in ceiling, 9" thick walls. Beautiful buildings, superb company and warranty. 96 degrees outside, 71 degrees inside with no air conditioning yesterday. Doesn't cost much to heat with radiant tube heaters either. I set the thermostat in the fall and don't touch it till spring.
www.mortonbuildings.com

Evan
06-28-2007, 09:10 AM
Anybody know if post and beam construction is just another name for "pole barn" construction?

Yes, the same thing, more or less. My 24' x 24' garage has vertical 8" sq posts on 8 foot spacing plus footings with beams across the top. It started life as a carport with a full standard truss roof and attic on a slab on grade. I closed it in when we bought this place with 2x6 framing all around which was easy because the framing is all non structural. It also gives me excellent insulation, which I have finally installed. :o