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cybor462
07-09-2007, 10:21 AM
Just got an indexer as I have many small parts to drill as well as other parts to mill the ends where I need to go 90* each face. So I thought this 5C collet indexer would work.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-6011&PMPXNO=950007&PARTPG=INLMK3
Now this was a special at Enco which came with a full set of collets for 179.99
I then saw the 5c chuck 3 jaw scroll chuck and thought this would be a real treat. So I got that to use with the indexer to hold parts that will not fit in the collets. I thought I made a good choice.
After looking at the indexer I think I made a bad choice with it. I did not notice it did not have any mounting holes so it needs to be clamped to the table. Also it is horizontal only. I did not know it was a cheap 30 dollar part. I thought at 179.00 the indexer would have been more of the total cost but the collet set is where the bulk of the price is.

Lesson here....... Don't assume!

I will send the indexer back and get the Phase II

Am I thinking clearly or do you guys have another suggestion?
The phase II looks much better.

Jim Caudill
07-09-2007, 10:34 AM
Every choice has its pro's and con's. I have had one of those indexers for years, but rarely use it. I have several of the Hardinge HV4-5C indexers as well as a Hardinge dividing head. The HV (horizontal/vertical) indexers are what I reach for first when I have to do large division indexing. I can put a chuck directly on the nose of a couple of my indexers and skip the 5C chuck business. You might want to look into one of those on ebay or look for a deal on the import knock-off of the same. Drilling is fine but you want to watch out for chatter when trying to mill in these.

cybor462
07-09-2007, 10:39 AM
Which H/V do you have? I was thinking on the Phase II
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-6200&PMPXNO=952827&PARTPG=INLMK3
Do you think chatter would be an issue with this model?

J. R. Williams
07-09-2007, 10:42 AM
Cybor
I have a similar unit but I took time to machine the base to have parallel sides. This allows the unit to be placed in the vise and ready to use without time consuming alignment when it is clamped down. Installing a key way on the bottom is another option but a difficult machining project. My unit required carbide tooling to cut the base as ithas several veryhard spots in the cast iron.

JRW

cybor462
07-09-2007, 10:54 AM
I thought about setting up a key and or slots to bolt it down but I decided it would be foolish to tear into it as it is so cheap it may not be worth the effort. The Phase II H/V looks much heavier and it is already setup with mount holes and keys for each. It also has 24 divisions compared to the 10 this one I now have, has.

I will do more research to see which will really work for me.

lazlo
07-09-2007, 10:55 AM
Just got an indexer as I have many small parts to drill as well as other parts to mill the ends where I need to go 90* each face. So I thought this 5C collet indexer would work.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-6011&PMPXNO=950007&PARTPG=INLMK3

I will send the indexer back and get the Phase II
The phase II looks much better.

I went through the same thing Cybor -- I bought the $28 no-name indexer, and the base wasn't flat, the shaft wasn't bored parallel to the base, and I could barely fit a 5C collet into the throat.

I sent it back and got a Phase II, which cost $20 more, but it's a lot better made.

Just a warning: the Phase II doesn't have mounting holes on the base either -- you have to drill them yourself. The Phase II also is horizontal only, just like the no-name.

It sounds like you really want one of the horizontal/vertical spindexes, like this one:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-6200&PMPXNO=952827&PARTPG=INLMK3

Bill Pace
07-09-2007, 11:06 AM
I did what JRW did, squared up the sides and mount it in the vise, and have have had several quick & simple indexing projects that it filled the need nicely. I already had a set of 5C collets so I just got one of the $30+- indexers and consider it well worth that...

Phase ll RT's are very nice, ---- my 8" is just really smooooth/tight....and its purty too, nice paint, crisp index marks......

oldtiffie
07-09-2007, 11:08 AM
Deleted/erased-out

DR
07-09-2007, 11:08 AM
Which H/V do you have? I was thinking on the Phase II
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-6200&PMPXNO=952827&PARTPG=INLMK3
Do you think chatter would be an issue with this model?

Shop around, ebay, auctions, etc, get the real thing, a Hardinge indexer. You shouldn't have to pay any more than than that junk from Enco.

lazlo
07-09-2007, 11:26 AM
Shop around, ebay, auctions, etc, get the real thing, a Hardinge indexer. You shouldn't have to pay any more than than that junk from Enco.

I wish.

Hardinge Indexers go for $250 - $500 on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270141953705
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120135927271
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260133281714

lazlo
07-09-2007, 11:30 AM
I have one of John Stevenson's "Spindexer designs" - made in China and sold in UK.

It is excellent and the finish and accuracy are all that I require.

Tiffie, Phase II is Chinese also, it's just better Chinese.

There's a long-standing belief (that's probably true) that the Chicom tools are mass-produced in sweat-shops, graded by quality, and priced to the retailers accordingly. The best stuff gets branded as Phase II, Accupro, etc, and the worst stuff goes to Ebay PowerSellers :)

Sounds like John Stevenson and his Wife are buying the "good stuff" I wouldn't expect any less from John ;)

oldtiffie
07-09-2007, 11:52 AM
Deleted/erased-out

Jim Caudill
07-09-2007, 12:57 PM
I usually have to pay around $150 for the Hardinge units. I have bought them from Cabin Fever and local auctions. I have probably bought 6 of them and currently have 3 or 4 with different spindle noses and index plates. Most of them have plates with index holes every 15 degrees, but I have one that indexes every 10 degrees IIRC. The Hardinge units usually have keyway slots and holes and tabs for mounting. I think that those that try to get $300 for them are looking for the next sucker. They are out there, just keep your eyes open.

cybor462
07-09-2007, 03:08 PM
I have packed up this dog sh*t and will be sending it back. I will look for the Hardinge. I see most come with the tailstock. The Phase II did not. I can say having a few tools that the Phase II are a decent quality. My RT is a Phase II and a have a couple vises. All are very nice and work well within tolerance.

I will not be too upset if I end up with one.

japcas
07-09-2007, 03:58 PM
The Phase II H/V looks much heavier and it is already setup with mount holes and keys for each. It also has 24 divisions compared to the 10 this one I now have, has.

Cybor, the indexer you have has 360 divisions. It works like a vernier to get the one degree increments. If I remember correctly, there should be 36 holes on the face of the black ring which gives you 10 degree indexing increments. Then you use the pin in the top to act as a vernier to get 1 degree increments. This gives you 360 divisions of indexing which is plenty close for a lot of work such as hexing a bolt head.

There still handy for horizontal work if you get a decent one and they don't eat up a lot of spindle to table clearance.

lazlo
07-09-2007, 04:19 PM
Cybor, the indexer you have has 360 divisions. It works like a vernier to get the one degree increments.

There still handy for horizontal work if you get a decent one and they don't eat up a lot of spindle to table clearance.

I really like my little spindex too -- they're really handy if you don't want to set up a full-blown dividing head rig.
Perfect for milling hex heads, face spanner holes, etc.

Sir John posted a really nice "how-to" guide on that little spindex, including how to use the vernier, here:

operating spin indexer (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=24263&page=2)

cybor462
07-09-2007, 04:29 PM
Cybor, the indexer you have has 360 divisions. It works like a vernier to get the one degree increments. If I remember correctly, there should be 36 holes on the face of the black ring which gives you 10 degree indexing increments. Then you use the pin in the top to act as a vernier to get 1 degree increments. This gives you 360 divisions of indexing which is plenty close for a lot of work such as hexing a bolt head.

There still handy for horizontal work if you get a decent one and they don't eat up a lot of spindle to table clearance.

I mis spoke I meant it had a 10 pin index on top.
You are correct. And it only had a 2.5" clearance to center.
The Phase II has almost 4.5" so they say.

cybor462
07-09-2007, 04:34 PM
I really like my little spindex too -- they're really handy if you don't want to set up a full-blown dividing head rig.
Perfect for milling hex heads, face spanner holes, etc.

Sir John posted a really nice "how-to" guide on that little spindex, including how to use the vernier, here:

operating spin indexer (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=24263&page=2)

Thanks for that link. That indexer is the exact copy of what I had but it is already on its way back to Enco. Cost 30.00 to ship it back. Should have kept it. That is why they package it with a collet set. No one in their right mind would pay more to ship than what it cost for that cheap iron. I know Enco has free shipping if over 50.00 though. Would have to batch it with something else. Too much trouble for that cheapo.

LES A W HARRIS
07-09-2007, 04:48 PM
cybor462,
You may want to consider the adjustable tail center, on a taper reamer need to offset in two directions. The standard center is replaced with a soft drill rod one and centerdrilled to put a ball in to allow for the swivel. As you run off the cut, you can cut into the soft center. The reamer? an old special; 12 weeks delivery $1300.00; no way!
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/LATHEWORK/Pic064.jpg

milling the flutes.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/LATHEWORK/Pic067.jpg

Cheers,

lwalker
07-09-2007, 04:49 PM
FYI: You can ship anything that will fit in a USPS flat rate box for $8.95 regardless of weight. Good to know for next time ;-)



Thanks for that link. That indexer is the exact copy of what I had but it is already on its way back to Enco. Cost 30.00 to ship it back. Should have kept it. That is why they package it with a collet set. No one in their right mind would pay more to ship than what it cost for that cheap iron. I know Enco has free shipping if over 50.00 though. Would have to batch it with something else. Too much trouble for that cheapo.

ProGunOne
07-09-2007, 04:53 PM
They've had this indexer on sale before and have used the same (Phase II) picture?

wmgeorge
07-09-2007, 04:55 PM
I have one of these... works great... it is a Phase II. I've had good luck with all the Phase II stuff I've purchased.




Which H/V do you have? I was thinking on the Phase II
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-6200&PMPXNO=952827&PARTPG=INLMK3
Do you think chatter would be an issue with this model?

ProGunOne
07-09-2007, 05:00 PM
wmgeore, I agree on the Phase II but it appears they're picture shows the Phase II but a turd in a box shows up at your door? ;)

cybor462
07-09-2007, 05:12 PM
FYI: You can ship anything that will fit in a USPS flat rate box for $8.95 regardless of weight. Good to know for next time ;-)
Enco will not accept it that way. They specify UPS they say they will not guarantee credit if it is shipped any other way.
Sounds like a kickback from UPS maybe?

I just ordered the Phase II with the Phase II tailstock. With the 4" chuck I have w/5c mount this should be the way to go.

Philt
07-09-2007, 05:47 PM
Just got an indexer as I have many small parts to drill as well as other parts to mill the ends where I need to go 90* each face. So I thought this 5C collet indexer would work.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-6011&PMPXNO=950007&PARTPG=INLMK3
Now this was a special at Enco which came with a full set of collets for 179.99
I then saw the 5c chuck 3 jaw scroll chuck and thought this would be a real treat. So I got that to use with the indexer to hold parts that will not fit in the collets. I thought I made a good choice.
After looking at the indexer I think I made a bad choice with it. I did not notice it did not have any mounting holes so it needs to be clamped to the table. Also it is horizontal only. I did not know it was a cheap 30 dollar part. I thought at 179.00 the indexer would have been more of the total cost but the collet set is where the bulk of the price is.

Lesson here....... Don't assume!

I will send the indexer back and get the Phase II

Am I thinking clearly or do you guys have another suggestion?
The phase II looks much better.

I hope you are aren't too disappointed in the Phase II version of the spin indexer because it is all but identical with the one you just returned. The base of the Phase II also comes without holes, it is horizontal only and the weight of the two indexers is the the same. I have found the Enco version to be a good deal. It meets or exceeds the specs given for the unit. The only modification I have made to it was to drill holes in the base.

cybor462
07-09-2007, 05:55 PM
I hope you are aren't too disappointed in the Phase II version of the spin indexer because it is all but identical with the one you just returned. The base of the Phase II also comes without holes, it is horizontal only and the weight of the two indexers is the the same. I have found the Enco version to be a good deal. It meets or exceeds the specs given for the unit. The only modification I have made to it was to drill holes in the base.

The one I ordered is http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-6200&PMPXNO=952827&PARTPG=INLMK3
It has everything the cheapie did not. I also got the tailstock to go with it.
I have a few Phase II tools and I have been very pleased with them.

IOWOLF
07-09-2007, 06:23 PM
My cheapo has served me for 12 years or so with some modifications.

Basically you paid for a set of collets and got the spindex free.

lazlo
07-09-2007, 07:19 PM
That indexer is the exact copy of what I had but it is already on its way back to Enco. Cost 30.00 to ship it back.

Cybor, there's no way you should pay the return shipping on that indexer.

Call Enco customer service and tell them the quality of the spin index was substandard, and they will pay for return shipping.

When I posted a week or two ago about returning the tilting angle table (3 times, no less) -- Enco paid for the shipping in both directions.
It wasn't a hassle, either -- I just told them that the table did not meet my expectations, and they arranged for a UPS pickup on their dime.

oldtiffie
07-09-2007, 09:27 PM
Deleted/erased-out

cybor462
07-10-2007, 08:14 AM
My cheapo has served me for 12 years or so with some modifications.

Basically you paid for a set of collets and got the spindex free.
I discovered that. They were a cheap set of collets to boot.
The spindexer would have worked but would have been a bugger to dial in all the time without modifying it for keys.

cybor462
07-10-2007, 08:16 AM
Cybor, there's no way you should pay the return shipping on that indexer.

Call Enco customer service and tell them the quality of the spin index was substandard, and they will pay for return shipping.

When I posted a week or two ago about returning the tilting angle table (3 times, no less) -- Enco paid for the shipping in both directions.
It wasn't a hassle, either -- I just told them that the table did not meet my expectations, and they arranged for a UPS pickup on their dime.

I guess I could have done that but really it was my error. I have never paid shipping from Enco with any order using the free codes so I guess this one time will not kill me. If I had ordered from most other dealers I would always pay shipping. Not a bad deal really.

IOWOLF
07-10-2007, 08:26 AM
OK, If you don't like Enco stuff don't buy it it seems you come here to complain about Enco stuff when it doesn't live up to your expectations, and this time You admit it was your fault you did not look closely at the photo.

This is not an attack on you, just an observation.I am sure others and myself would benefit from Your mistakes,but go buy from Harbor Freight then you will have something to complain about. In most cases.

cybor462
07-10-2007, 08:47 AM
OK, If you don't like Enco stuff don't buy it it seems you come here to complain about Enco stuff when it doesn't live up to your expectations, and this time You admit it was your fault you did not look closely at the photo.

This is not an attack on you, just an observation.I am sure others and myself would benefit from Your mistakes,but go buy from Harbor Freight then you will have something to complain about. In most cases.

Wolf not a problem... let me make an observation... if you read all the posts you will see I said I bought the wrong one. Not having any issue with Enco as I buy 99% of all my purchases from them. Also many of the posts by others said the indexer I bought was of low quality. And some said it works just fine for them. I decided I wanted the H/V model which that one was not. I was upset as I thought at 169.99 the tool would have had more value but later found as you pointed out I got it free, just paid for the collets. I agreed with you. I did check the collets and they were the very cheap ones, why candy coat it. They were cheap. Does that mean I do not like Enco? No it does not, does Enco make this stuff? No they do not.

The reason I posted was to ask others which they would buy as I made a mistake once and did not feel like making it twice. The fellas that posted helped with that decision.

I also buy from HF and like much of what I get from them.

So I am not sure what the problem is other than someone that may not have had enough coffee today.

IOWOLF
07-10-2007, 06:45 PM
Yea your'e correct, Drink more coffee before you look at the photos.

:)

DR
07-10-2007, 06:57 PM
I wish.

Hardinge Indexers go for $250 - $500 on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270141953705
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120135927271
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260133281714


Hmmm..I have 3 or 4 of them in the shop. None from ebay, but I don't remember paying any more than $125 for any one.

I see them at shop auctions all the time for $100+/-. I have no idea why they go so inexpensively. Maybe because buyers don't understand the difference between them and junk.

cybor462
07-10-2007, 07:01 PM
I need to find auctions that have this stuff. I will admit I do not look aggressively but I do not see any in my area. I think I was told of a few in Philly. Kinda long ride for an auction. All but 2 hours for me.

DR
07-10-2007, 07:15 PM
I discovered that. They were a cheap set of collets to boot.
The spindexer would have worked but would have been a bugger to dial in all the time without modifying it for keys.

Spin indexers are meant for use on mag chucks, hence no keyways. They really aren't meant for milling.


To put prices in perspective...

The cheapo spin indexers are copies of a Suburban model that currently retails in J&L for $600+.

Good 5C collets are $30+/per.

So my advice again is go to auctions. If it's an older shop usually lots of Hardinge stuff at very reasonable prices.

lazlo
07-10-2007, 07:17 PM
Hmmm..I have 3 or 4 of them in the shop. None from ebay, but I don't remember paying any more than $125 for any one.

Damn, I need to go to live auctions! :)

cybor462
07-16-2007, 12:01 AM
Sent the cheap one back. Just got this Friday. Had a chance to play today for a few minutes.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cybor462/index.jpg

Real nice, will have to enlarge mounting holes on tailstock for 1/2 studs but all seems great.
I do have one question for those that have these. It has 2 grease zerks on the spinner. The instructions say OIL the spinner using the oil ports. They are grease zerks for sure. So what are they Oil or Grease? Not sure how I could get oil in them other than removing them and squirting it in.:(

BadDog
07-16-2007, 01:00 AM
I don't know the specifics of that tool, but take a look at this (http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/oilgun/gunconvert.html). I use one like this for the "grease zirks" on my Bridgeport way oilers. I also installed the same fittings on my lathe saddle and cross slide so I could pressure oil them. MUCH better than the stupid ball oilers...

cybor462
07-16-2007, 01:04 AM
Maybe that is what I need to do. Great idea. I hate ball oilers too. Well I see I have another project!:D

J Tiers
07-16-2007, 01:28 AM
Cybor, there's no way you should pay the return shipping on that indexer.

Call Enco customer service and tell them the quality of the spin index was substandard, and they will pay for return shipping.

When I posted a week or two ago about returning the tilting angle table (3 times, no less) -- Enco paid for the shipping in both directions.
It wasn't a hassle, either -- I just told them that the table did not meet my expectations, and they arranged for a UPS pickup on their dime.

The heck they will........ Even if they did for you, they won't always.

They flat refused to do it for me. Cost me BOTH ways shipping to return a really crappy dial height gage to them. If I had wanted a different one, I'd have paid to ship THAT too. yah......... bo hau.

Grizzly, on the other hand, was VERY good about it with a bad level. IMO, Enco sucks, and no way around it.

cybor462
07-16-2007, 01:36 AM
I hope they will pay freight back. I just bought a 4" 5C collet mount scroll chuck that has all kind of craters were it locates on the collet chuck. It is going back. I will call them tomorrow or later today actually.
I bet they pay it both ways for me.... I buy over 5 grand a year from them. They do not want to lose a big sucker like me.:D

Really I have had bad stuff before and they always paid the return and back to me shipping. I have never had a problem with Enco. Maybe you need to stop trying to pay them with Pesos! :D

IOWOLF
07-16-2007, 09:33 AM
That's comparing apples to oranges, heck I would confuse the two myself. ;)

lazlo
07-16-2007, 09:46 AM
The heck they will........ Even if they did for you, they won't always.

IMO, Enco sucks, and no way around it.

Maybe it's how you approach them JT :)
I've returned several substandard items to Enco, and they've always arranged for a UPS pick-up at their expense.

I've bought a ton of stuff from Enco, and I've always found their customer service to be very pleasant and professional.

PHiers
07-16-2007, 12:22 PM
The heck they will........ Even if they did for you, they won't always.

They flat refused to do it for me. Cost me BOTH ways shipping to return a really crappy dial height gage to them. If I had wanted a different one, I'd have paid to ship THAT too. yah......... bo hau.

Grizzly, on the other hand, was VERY good about it with a bad level. IMO, Enco sucks, and no way around it.

I have seen JTiers rant about Enco before. I wonder if it was the Enco of several years ago? They did have crappy service before MSC brought them. I have never had a problem with them paying the return shipping, once on crappy height gage, once on a vise I considered sub standard and some other items from time to time. Most of what I buy from them I have been satisfied with however.

pcarpenter
07-16-2007, 12:54 PM
Just because they are zerk fittings does not make them grease zerks ;) . I have seen several Bridgeport mills turned into a real mess this way. Those that did not come with one-shot oilers had zerk fittings for pressure oiling way passages. Someone who did not read the manual decided this must be for *greasing* the ways:mad: Grease on machine tool surfaces becomes the equivalent of Clover compound (a mixture of grease and abraisive used for lapping).

If you don't like the zerk fittings, depending on the thread, they may easily be replaced with Gits oil cups or ball oilers. If the threads do not match a standard (edit) oil cup, then worst case, you can just remove the zerk and drill and tap to a standard cup thread size, cleaning the part thoroughly to remove the swarf from the oil passages.

Ball oilers are not the evil that we often treat them as, by the way. Its *cheap* ball oilers that I hate. The cheap ones have wimpy ball return springs and as such allow dirt in. I recently replaced most all of them on my Chinese lathe. I found some of these in some stuff I bought surplus. They were 6mm and as such were just right to replace the ones on my compound. They have nice stiff springs and I use a veteranery hypo with the tip of the needle ground off to lube these. Works very nicely and has a much lower profile than the Gits cups I used on other parts.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n16/pfcarpenter/Kent%20lathe/PICT1165small.jpg

As for Enco...I have always found them to bend over backward. I had a 2" (travel) indicator that I ordered maybe 6+ years ago that appeared to be missing the dial clamp screw. They offered to pay to have it go back (sure to cost more than the indicator). I said I would make a screw rather than have them eat the high cost of paying UPS to pick it up for return. I later found that it fell out in the packing and would have felt really bad had I sent it back. You might say..."yeah...but it wouldn't cost you anything". That thinking shows a lack of understanding of business. If I cost them money, I eventually pay for it and so do the rest of us. All business costs eventually get passed on to the customer.

I figure they are sending a lot of stuff out with no charge shipping. At some point, people using this to try stuff out and send it back will all cost us....or the "free shipping" will come to an end. If I got it shipped here free, and decided I just don't want it (as opposed to being defective), I ought to pay for the return costs. On a $30 spin index, I think I would just keep it.

Paul

J Tiers
07-16-2007, 01:00 PM
Rant?

Call it whatever your small heart desires. I tell it as it happened, and anyone who doesn't like it is free to not read it, or consider that I am biased.

If I AM biased, it is due to what Enco did or didn't do. I was quite displeased, especially when it cost me double to ship back vs what it cost THEM to ship to me.

How I approached them? Funny how I approached both companies the exact same way, politely, but only ONE offered to stand behind their goods.

And, of course, a quality company will stand behind their goods even if a customer is annoyed and shows it (which I did not). Usually, they would like to turn a dissatisfied customer into a happy repeat customer.

Unless MSC bought them pretty recently, they owned Enco at the time.

PHiers
07-16-2007, 02:24 PM
Rant?

Call it whatever your small heart desires. I tell it as it happened, and anyone who doesn't like it is free to not read it, or consider that I am biased.

If I AM biased, it is due to what Enco did or didn't do. I was quite displeased, especially when it cost me double to ship back vs what it cost THEM to ship to me.

How I approached them? Funny how I approached both companies the exact same way, politely, but only ONE offered to stand behind their goods.

And, of course, a quality company will stand behind their goods even if a customer is annoyed and shows it (which I did not). Usually, they would like to turn a dissatisfied customer into a happy repeat customer.

Unless MSC bought them pretty recently, they owned Enco at the time.

Wow! Why the personal attack? I only wondered if it happened before MSC bought Enco. Since you joined the board in 2004 you have 15 posts trashing Enco's customer's service, so to me yeah that is a Rant.

As far as my heart goes....you have no idea if it is "small", "large" or even if I have one.

As for your invitation to ignore your posts that will be easy to do.

J Tiers
07-16-2007, 03:13 PM
Wow! Why the personal attack?

As far as my heart goes....you have no idea if it is "small", "large" or even if I have one.

As for your invitation to ignore your posts that will be easy to do.


No personal attack intended.

That is a relatively well known (around here, anyhow) expression, probably from a literary source which I have now forgotten. Along the lines of "whatever winds your watch", or the like.

If you haven't one, you are somewhat unique. However, I believe an enlarged heart is medically bad, so a SMALL one might be considered better.......

BadDog
07-16-2007, 05:17 PM
pcarpenter:
Those are not "ball oilers", at least not in the typical sense. Those are flush "grease" fittings, and there is a grease gun adapter that will fit those to allow pressurized oiling, though not as easily as the snap on variety.

McMaster Page with flush mounts. (http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.aspx?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=2105&RelatedCtlgPgs=2102,2103,2104,2105,2106,2113&term=Zerk%2bGrease%2bFittings&sesnextrep=807827947531948&ScreenWidth=1280&McMMainWidth=932&ToolsetID=ToolPageFlip&ToolsetAct=)

lazlo
07-16-2007, 05:56 PM
Good link BadDog!

I have those Alemite grease fittings on my Burke knee mill, and I like them.
I use the German pressurized oil gun that McMaster sells for ~$40 -- it's a nice system because you can really fire the way oil under a lot of pressure, clearing out the ways in the process.

If I remember correctly BadDog, you replaced your ball oilers with Alemites on your Rockwell lathe?

I thought about doing that on my Clausing, but the Alemite's stick up about a quarter of an inch, which seems like it would be a pain on the lathe saddle.

On the Bridgeport and Burke mills, the Alemite fittings are all in places where the tip isn't sticking out...

BadDog
07-16-2007, 06:09 PM
Yep, that was me.

I thought they might be a problem, and the swarf does catch on them a bit. I figured on switching to flush mount if needed, but I've really not noticed it being a problem at all. And it is CERTAINLY better than the ball oilers.

I use a modified grease gun with mine, and it's nice to be able to hit it with a couple of pumps and see nice clean oil start oozing out all over the place. And it cleans effectively too, particularly on the cross slide which is prone to picking up trash. When I hit it with the oil, the first of the exiting oil generally comes out with a bit of fine visible grit, then clear yellow way oil follows and I wipe off the immediate excess. I always hit it a few pumps every time I use it, and there is always a light sheen of oil on the ways while I’m running it. When I’m done, I wipe off any excess to prevent collecting dust as it often sits for weeks at a time. When I’m ready to go again, just a quick wipe with a cloth to get off dust, oil and wipe off initial flush, then I’m ready to go at it KNOWING there is plenty of clean oil in the right place. Much better piece of mind that “I hope I got a couple of drops in past that @#%@# ball…”

BadDog
07-16-2007, 06:16 PM
Oh, and the larger ports are too big for most zirks, so this is what I did to fit screw in zirks to my saddle and cross slide. They are a light (finger) press fit and allow use of common 1/4-20 zirks. They can also easily be removed to return to stock, or change to an NPT zirk, or whatever...

http://www.members.cox.net/jameshuffman/junk/lube2.jpg

cybor462
07-16-2007, 11:38 PM
Good show guys! I now know what needs to be done. I did speak to the cnc guy today and he also told me what you have just explained. I will make an oiler that will work on those fittings. I do not like ball oilers but I did buy much higher quality oilers from Mc Master Carr and I am ok with them. But to keep things uniform I may swap all to the ones you guys just explained.