View Full Version : Aint that the way.

09-02-2007, 10:14 AM
Well, it took all yesterday to get this thing off, and now more trouble.

The truck has had an exaust leak that has been getting worse. The other day I noticed the smell of the exauset was getting into the cab. Which means that I have waited too long. Who knows how many brain cells have gotten burned by carbon monoxide that I didnt smell.

So, I got off my but and pulled it apart. And of course, it was not simple. Started with removing the inner plastic wheelhouse. Pulled the other plastic covers off, started to remove the nuts off of the studs and found only 2 would come off. So it was off to Sears to get those rusty nut removers which work very well. Then, off came the other 5. Yes only 7 were removed. Then on #8 bolt, it happened. I nearly came unglued.

Ford found that it was needed to cover this bolt with some un-needed chunk of metal from the motor mount. Thanks Ford, reason #5,438 why not to buy another. Reason #5,437 was the use of junk iron that has turned into a big ball of rust and created an exaust leak as it flaked off the bolts that held it all together.

So, I unbolt the motor mount and jack the motor up. Ok, just enough room now to get the nut off.

Ok, so I have the manifold off and on the mill. I milled down the old rusty studs that hold on the exaust collector. It is now ready for new studs. And while I'm at it, I'll replace the studs in the head. Mostly because thay are usless at this point from the rust. While I was out getting the studs, I pick up a cam style stud remover.

To the point, all of the studs came out..... except for one. Upper left on number 8 cylinder. It broke off. Nice. Never did like using studs on exaust manifolds anyway.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/katiecat222/temp/th_IMG_2056.jpg (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/katiecat222/temp/IMG_2056.jpg)

So today I will attempt to weld on a nut and give it another try. If that dont work, I'll be in the shop today making a drill jig to bolt on so that I can drill the darn thing out correctly and repair it.

So much for a relaxing weekend, but I guess I was only kidding myslef thinking that I would relax. And, like always, I was thinking I should have sent this job off to the guys at the garage to fix it. Then they would have had to deal with this! :D

Off to get dirty....


A.K. Boomer
09-02-2007, 10:34 AM
I seen the looks of your engine and then took a look at where your from, yup, back east, I remember working on cars in michigan before i moved out to colorado, I dont think i would have kept doing it back there, everything crumbles, it makes things 5 times harder when your constantly having to drill out broken bolts and studs plus the tools dont even fit the fasteners, 13mm are reduced to 11 and such, One of my most valuable tools out there was an air hammer with a sharp ass bit, dont even bother to loosen --- just hold air hammer bit on an angle to the nut and shear it off the stud,,,very frustrating, still happens a little out here with high temp stuff like exhausts and stuff, good luck.

09-02-2007, 10:51 AM
I seen the looks of your engine and then took a look at where your from, yup, back east

I've never understood why the residents of northeastern states allow the local authorities to put salt on the roads. It can reduce a shiny new car to a rusted heap in just a few years. They don't do this in Montana, which gets a fair amount of snow.

09-02-2007, 12:46 PM
The more people, the faster the snow and Ice needs to be gone, So the salt, calcium chloride, and the like , come out just to get folks to work and such.
Happens in the midwest also, but not so much in the smaller towns.

09-02-2007, 12:53 PM
It is effective at keeping the roads clear.

Here in Maine the State has started using Calcium Chloride only (I may have the wrong chemical). It works very well, but we're hearing of 3-4 year old cars with very rusty chassis, brake lines, etc. Combine the salt/chemicals, frost heaves and generally poor road conditions and you have a brutal environment for cars and trucks.

I was shocked when I moved out here from the Seattle area. Out west you'd see a fair number of 30 year old cars still being used as daily drivers and weekend work trucks. Here a 15 year old vehicle is pretty much the limit. Cars and trucks just fall apart out here.

I've never understood why the residents of northeastern states allow the local authorities to put salt on the roads. It can reduce a shiny new car to a rusted heap in just a few years. They don't do this in Montana, which gets a fair amount of snow.

Rookie machinist
09-02-2007, 12:55 PM
I used to see this problem all the time when I worked for chevy. Had a couple of ways of getting the studs out. First if enough stud was sticking out I have threaded drill guides, just screw on the guide drill a pilot hole. Then drill and tap from there. The second method I used was using a drill center in the exhaust manifold holes, works good as long as the manifold is not warped. And my last resort was to drill the holes free hand it's a little tricky to get the angle right but with a good angle drill and sharp bits its not too hard.

Your Old Dog
09-02-2007, 03:26 PM
I've never understood why the residents of northeastern states allow the local authorities to put salt on the roads.

Most likely because someone utterd the following phrase: "If it just saves one life it's worth it" That seems to be the mantra for most changes in society as long as the guy doing the uttering doesn't have to pay for it out of pocket. Here in New York we are well on our way to replacing steel guardrails with concrete ones. That might be why we have some of the highest taxes in the country.

One of my most valuable tools out there was an air hammer with a sharp ass bit, dont even bother to loosen --- just hold air hammer bit on an angle to the nut and shear it off the stud,,,very frustrating, still happens a little out here with high temp stuff like exhausts and stuff, good luck.

I use my little dremel with a cutoff wheel for a lot of that kind of work. Kind of like surgery !

Rockrat, you remind of the guy who complained that they were gonna hang him with a new rope !! You got that beautiful new shop/garage with likely a beautiful concrete floor to work on and you're complaining !! Or is SWMBO gonna make you do the work in the driveway? :D

09-02-2007, 05:01 PM
Rock. Dodge 318 intake manifold pleneum gasket R&R. Started out Sat. Morning at about 8 AM. Finally got the manifold back on at 12:30 today. have to torque it down and hang everything else back on. You have my deepest sympathies, my friend. I am literally feeling your pain.

09-02-2007, 09:50 PM
This new to this area "Liquid Salt "crap they,re spraying on the highways to melt ice up here, is eating out the brake lines on 2-3 yr. old vehichles.

Stupid, Stupid, Ideas!!!!:mad:

09-02-2007, 09:57 PM
No ice VS No brakes? :eek:

I can drive on ice just fine, I let a little air out of my tires and slow way down is all.

09-02-2007, 10:06 PM
I have a 1997 Ford F150. The cast iron exaust manifolds both rusted through and were replaced. Now one of the new ones has rusted through. I have been told they were cast in China. I had never heard of a exaust manifold rusting through before. Gary P. Hansen

09-02-2007, 10:33 PM
Has anyone done any spark erosion using a welder for a power supply?

The one plans I had (borrowed by a engineer and gone) showed a vibrating etching pen used to stabilize the arc for the electrode.

A simple drop -feed device with something you could plug onto the stick welder would be divine around here. NOW the ability to rig it up to work on projects that come up real fast like this, even better.

09-02-2007, 11:21 PM
Drive in snow? Here in Ohio most people cannot drive in a little rain!

09-03-2007, 12:04 AM
...exhaust bolts and studs rust solid here too and we don't salt nothin.

It's just the job they do in the conditions they do it in,hot and cold again,bolts don't hold temper,rust badly etc.

I've welded out thousands of them over the years. How the engine is running will effect how the exhaust bolts will come out.Lean and they are always stuck,rich not so bad.

09-03-2007, 12:47 AM
Good thing you got it fixed, sometimes I read the practical machinist board although I'm not a member, there was thread about wanting to use muffler tape to repair a 12" long hole in a muffler. I think the guy asking the question was the board owner and a metal working machinery dealer, you would think someone selling machine would know better, not sure if I would buy anything off him.

09-03-2007, 01:12 AM
gawd, sounds like one of my problems

i sat down at the computer tonight and found a nice crack through the laptop screen....it's only 150 bucks out the window

09-03-2007, 01:26 AM
Well, its ready to put back together. Had to drill the thing out and put in a helicoil. Gawd I hate to do that but the stud would not come out. The helicoil does not feel as tight as I would like but I think it will get me by.

And yes, I found more rusty things up under there that will at some point need fixed. But I think that I can get through the winter.

As for the garage, I have nothing in there yet. So this was done in front of the old garage (close to all of the tools). The best part was the temp is perfect for working in the drive.

And!!!! I got to use my tickets (b-day gift from the wife) to see the band Rush at our local venue. I feel good enough to finish the thing up tomorrow.


Cpt Ordnance
09-06-2007, 11:02 PM
Hurry and get that thing fixed. I'm counting on it to get us out to hunt pheasants after Thanksgiving .......... we could get 1 " of snow and 4" of salt by then.

Norman Atkinson
09-07-2007, 03:43 AM
At the risk of being flamed yet again, the corrosion problem is that you appear to be driving a crap vehicle. I agree that salting roads is contributory to the problem but Britain is a small island with coastlines on which you can throw a stick between them and we pour millions of tons of salt between that lot. Oddly, our vehicles do not suffer unduly from corrosion.
They did, believe me, but they are built better now.

It is not a question of going for the most expensive like the odd couple of Mercedes but my old Skoda( OK, laugh) was 100% rust free. Again, I had a 10 year old Seat Marbella in Spain which lived on the top of a 300 foot cliff and was met by howling salty winds from every point of the compass.
Now a Marbella or Panda if you must is crap with no street cred and a bit laughable but the old girl is still there- my swimming pool manager has the thing and he tends to leave it on my drive over there.

Regarding the exhaust system and the problem with stud removal, the average exhaust system fitter will have the lot off in minutes in the UK.

At the risk of further purgatory, you want to come to Europe and see what the Europhiles are driving- virtually rust free.

It was only the other day that I did the 1000 miles back from Austria via Germany, Luxembourg, France and into the whole of England. it's a lot of cars. There was no perceptible rust on any one of these vehicles.

Yer got it wrong. Yer got a bum steer.Sorry!


09-07-2007, 10:31 AM
Yea, I know, everything is better in Europe. I guess that's why the USA has to save your asses everytime there is a war over there. By the way Norm, where are you at or are you ashamed to publish your location. You all talk big but can't do it.

09-07-2007, 11:27 AM
By the way Norm, where are you at or are you ashamed to publish your location.
Norman has said where he is located many a time. It's true you don't see rusted out cars on the roads there. Cars are far more expensive to own and operate and in general people keep them a long time. To do that requires careful attention to maintenance and upkeep. That includes washing off the salt with fresh water after driving which goes a long way to preventing corrosion. I spray zinc bearing paint on the various underbody components every year or two and that helps prevent a lot of rot.

Norman Atkinson
09-07-2007, 12:29 PM
as Evan righly comments, I have never been reluctant to give details about myself or anything else.

It was only a matter of a few weeks ago that I mentioned that I was a Brit and had been subject to the same sort of attacks by a bunch of animal rights activists as eventually led to the same ones posting fire bombs to British Government Offices. Please read up the subject. Please read up the article in which I expressed the information but obviously didn't give mt exact location.
Could I say that Evan offered to give my wife and myself an opportunity to have a home until the business ended. My thanks goes to Evan- and also to Alistair Hosie who offered the same! I didn't run! I never have.
It was only a bit of a lash up but my old name on this Forum was Norman Atkinson. Aviemoron is a corruption of Aviemore which is in Invernesshire in Scotland. I have a home there under the Larig Ghru which goes through the highest mountains in Scotland. Here, Carld, the area is Tundra.
OK, in PM, I continue to write as Norman Atkinson and giive my address as Tyne and Wear.Here I was born just downb the road from where George Stephenson who built the Rocket and one of the first steam locomotives.
Google it, it is quite easy and intereresting.

As to Spain, I have a home in Menorca which is the second largest island in the Balearic Islands. Again, I have given many comments and many times.
I have also a home in the French Alps at 1800 meteres or 6500feet up.

Formerly, I was an accountant but on retirement I did a Motor vehicle Restoration qualification as a manure student. My family and I have been involved in motor vehicles and engineering since the start of steam.

Currently, I write on aviation matters and with authority as I was a serving member of the Royal Air Force in the prestigious 31 Squadron which was the Bomber Harris squadron when he was younger. 31 led the attack in Bagdad and demanded the right to die first. I continue to be a member of its association as a life member.

Whilst in the RAF in the colours, I was the youngest NCO and I did go into action. Carld, I went into action when I was a boy of 9. No hero, just another one of the many thousands of british boys and girls who were bombed , shelled and starved. in 6 years of war.

During my bit in uniform, I was part of a secret unit which has only now been slightly admitted. Part of it still remains in wraps.

Today, I am a disabled serviceman but just like the rest of us. Most of us are.

As to the US, please check your records. The US Navy Flight and the US Embassy Flight were on our station at RAF Hendon.

A note to Mr Foster- please don't lock this thread. You know the story anyway already but in all sincererity, I do feel that the American punter is being ripped off by cheap goods which are your own.

If you want to E-Mail me for more info, feel free.

09-07-2007, 12:48 PM
We need a specific forum headline for trivial interpersonal BS. The moment a thread degrades into this realm it gets moved into it. I suspect it would be a crowded place of late.

Norman Atkinson
09-07-2007, 01:47 PM
Neither Carld nor I can or will alter the quality of vehicles. I cannot alter his opinion of the Brits- to which he is entitled to have. All that I did was to report on what I had considerable experience.
We did, I have to say, get off topic about the last War but Carld is entitled to his views. For my part, I was simply putting the personal details about me into some semblance of order.

So Carld, as far as I am concerned- fire ahead. It is not every day that you get a writer who has gone in under the guns as a civilian as well as in uniform.

It is not everyday that you get someone who has been in car which was dropped 50 feet vertically. did 5 somersaults aand ended up upside down in a frozen river. Carld, if it had been a rusty car I wouldn't have stood a snowflake in Hell's chance.



Peter N
09-07-2007, 01:50 PM
Yea, I know, everything is better in Europe. I guess that's why the USA has to save your asses everytime there is a war over there.

Unfair and untrue Carl, but you knew that anyway didnít you?
Besides, you still need the Brits and Aussies to come and hold your hands everytime you have a war, so weíre probably even. :D

No, things arenít better in Europe, just different.
I think you guys generally have a much lower cost of living, and are blessed with all that space.
We have free health care and more history, you have much lower taxes and greater resources.
All swings and roundabouts really.

As to the car rust point, itís true, these days cars just donít really rust anymore over here thanks to zintec coatings and hot dip galvanising on the production line.
Doesnít apply to commercial vehicles though, my van is the same age as my Disco, but the disco has twice the mileage and has been driven through bogs and seawater and muddy fields, but the van is riddled with rust (itís a Ford Transit btw).


09-07-2007, 02:30 PM
Yep, Ford and GM use bad cast iron for auto parts. Toyota seems to use better cast iron and others may as well as far as I have seen in my limited career as a diesel mechanic and later as a job shop machinist for, umm, 30 years or more.

Norm, didn't you state in your post that someone may hit on you for your statement. Well, I did but all you had to say in that post was you think that European auto makers use a better grade of cast iron.

If you smite with a gauntlet, expect to be smote back.

Well, I think the only European wars the USA fought in were WW1 and WW2 so we didn't always save the Europeans, but left them to sort it out on their own.

Scotland huh, our ancestors may have been neighbors as I am of the MacGregor line near Loch Lomond and of the Darnell Irish line. Hell, we may had fought side by side against a common enemy in a past life. Tonite I will have a jigger of Bowmore in your honor, you do the same.

You have lived an interesting life and I am not deriding you at all, just a statement as I see it from your post. I have not had such an illustrious life and career as you so I defer to your experience and great knowledge in the matters of Europe and other things.

In view of the fact that the majority of Americans left Europe for a better life I guess our ancestors made a good move.

Norman Atkinson
09-07-2007, 03:34 PM
Of course, Carld, there is the Wee McGregor! Nope, not on the net but I ken it well( Getting auld, my son)

As you will see, I do base my comments not just on a wee bhutt and bhein in the glen but I did look across a wider space. In all honesty, I gave a fair comment over =well, my first car was a 1935 one!

OK, I am a Gael-just and no Sassenach or Lowlander. When your family left the Glens, the World was really a different place for them. It was Hell, they cleared the Highlands after Bonnie Prince Charlie in the '45. I have no idea when your folks set sail but I can really understand why. You did get a better life- and why not?

The World has moved on both in your native bit of peat but in the rest of Europe. The road sweepers are driving Mercedes and BMW's in Austria. I don't take the whatsits, I am an honest sort of guy.
One bloke who flamed me fairly recently didn't twig that I had done his family history but whilst he was doing nicely in San Francisco, his lot that were left on the Austrian /German frontier were doing rather nicely. There was even a violin museum dedicated to them and their skills.
The days of the horrid Black Death or whatever were past.
Sorry to ramble, folks, but it is really worth a visit to see what for many people are their roots.

With my usual wicked humour, the air flights to europe are cheaper than buying a row boat- and a bit quicker.

in the true tradition of a highland man -Slange Var and as they say in Edinburgh. Lang may yer lum reek.

( None Gaels need not read on)
Exit to 'the Ball of Kirriemuir'


09-07-2007, 05:53 PM
Norm, It's true that I inherited the highland spirit and would stand well in battle. I don't think most lose the spirit of their home land whether just from or several decendents from it. When I hear the pipes sing out it runs chills down my spine and my spirit runs high. The Irish tunes make me want to dance, drink and fight, not necessarily in that order. It's a Scot/Irish thing I guess. I'm 66 now so I don't jump up to the fight as fast as I did and I guess that's good.

My first ancestor to arrive in the America's was Alexander McGregor II 1610-1677 first appearing in Maryland in 1652 and known here as a Magruder because of the outlawing of the MacGregor name in Scotland. My Irish folk came about 1850.

I have reciently had the chance to travel with a friend that hauls freight across the USA and have visited almost all the states with only 10 or 12 left.

I would dearly love to visit Ireland and Scotland before I die but alas I don't think it will happen.

Norm, I don't understand the Celtic or Scottish lingo but I sure do enjoy hearing it spoken. I get to meet with a Scot friend every fall here in the states and enjoy his brogue. We play guitar and he used to drink but quit because it was becoming a problem. I still drink.

Norman Atkinson
09-07-2007, 06:54 PM
We are right off topic but as we are both rusty old so and so's, balls to the rest!

So your kinsman to the great Rob Roy. About your date in the 1600's.
Well worth a read, believe me. Being Black Campbell, we may have had our differences- and probably still do. I think that at 60 odd that you should make your way back to your homeland to the hills and the misty islands- you are 10 years younger than me! Go in the June when the sun almost never sets and the midges bite your ass. Or go when the heather is in bloom and imagine the really tough life that your kinsmen lived in the days before Scotland and England became one. The hills are still there and so is the welcome.

I look onto the Cairngorm almost as high as the Ben- Ben Nevis. Google it if you will. My mates' dust lies under 'the Hill' and in time, so will mine.
Climbers and skiers and the hard men and women. Go, discover your roots.

Perhaps I ought to translate a bit. Slange var is the wishing you Good Health and Lang may your lum reek is the Lowland Scots- not that it is wrong- but it translates as long may your light or chimney continue to smoke or smell.

Frightfully sorry and all that thing, Chaps. A man has to do what a man has to do - and a'that.

09-07-2007, 07:31 PM
Isn't this interesting Norm, my Scot friend that comes over is also a Campbell and he didn't have a clue when I told him our ancestors were arch rivals. I guess he did not study the history of Scotland. Now I have two Campbell friends. Well. even Rob, which I read all I can find about him, became gentler as he aged.

Yes, everything I have read of the life in Rob Roy's time was hardship and warfare for the McGregors and others. I buy and read books of Scottish and Irish history from time to time and enjoy them.

The Scots that struggled against the Brits lived a horrid life for sure. Not all had the spirit as Rob and others to resist the Brits.

In some ways the '45 was like the Civil War here. Both strugles were for civil and states rights however some will argue with that statement.

When I sit on the porch at midnight drinking my Bowmore I sometimes think about the strife and hardships of all our ancestors and the life we enjoy today.

Long live the spirit of the Highlanders and peace and happiness to you and yours Norm.