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shorty
05-12-2003, 09:32 AM
This isn't really a machining question.....
fact...old Harleys had serious oil feed problems, they are a gear driven system that operate off the cam gears, 50 psi output when the oil is cold dropping to 4-5 psi when the oil warms up.
question.....I can see no reason not to use an electic pump in conjuntion with the mechanical pump so long as the crankcase is vented and the electric oil pump can be regulated to 15-20 psi ....any thoughts or experiences in anything similar?????

gamachinist
05-12-2003, 02:55 PM
The biggest problems I see are the physical size and current consumption.I use a 1/2" drill to prime oil systems on engines and it really is noticable when the pump primes and is putting out 45 PSI or more.The way a Harley lower is put together I don't think more oil pressure will be needed as the rods are on roller bearings if I remember right.Robert.

rbregn
05-12-2003, 03:01 PM
Harleys are a low presure/high volume system. The high presure you get at cold temp is not good becouse you are not getting enough oil to all your systems.
Rob

Thrud
05-12-2003, 04:39 PM
shorty:
Quit buying ****ty oil and your problem is solved. Amsoil 20W50 Racing oil is perfect for Harleys - even if they don't deserve the Red Carpet Treatment! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

The pure synthetic does not breakdown in viscosity and the oil pressure fluxuation disappears. I know lots of Harley guys Running Amsoils 10w40 Bike oil and 0W30 Racing oil and they don't have problems.

And while you are at it quit buying the crappy filters from Harley - buy Mobil's or Amsoil's filter (two best on the market). So what if they aren't chromed...

firbikrhd1
05-12-2003, 06:40 PM
Since this wasn't a machining question, I'll give a non machining answer that may help. Total Performance Engineering at http://www.tpeng.com/oilpump.html manufactures a high volume oil pump for Harley engines. Whether they have a pump for your engine I don't know, but you might want to check out their web site. Hope this helps.
Steve

ibewgypsie
05-12-2003, 10:26 PM
Harleys have Roller bearings in the bottom end. They need oil flow and oil for cooling for as much as lubrication. Babbit bearings in contrast require oil pressure to keep the bearing floating off the crank. I put teflon in a harley once, I replaced the crank pin about three months later. SO I was told, it makes the rollers slide instead of roll.

I did for years make a oil accumulator for the stock cars that would sling the oil volume to the side of the pan and lose pressure in the corners. I used a propane bottle with a solonoid off the coil and a air tap on top.

No problems with harley oiling as designed. My 58 did not have a wrench on the motor when I bought it in 78.. 20 years. I managed to screw that up tho. had to blueprint and balance it.
American bikes rule. Grampa always said harleys were cheap crap tho, Indians were better to him. He had a harley frame with indian flattie motor.

I had a similar ideal once with the motor I built for my tattoo bus, I removed the cotter key spring retainer, stretched the spring and then as a afterthought put a washer spacer under the spring. Upon cranking it split the oil filter right down the side. idle was 60 pounds oil pressure. I found a special racing filter with a thicker wall, otherwise I would have had to pull the engine.

Thrud
05-13-2003, 05:01 AM
Dave
Teflon particulates are much like snow. They tend to drift and pack like snow. 3M, DOW, and others have proven this over and over. It has no place in most bearings or any engine.

I have heard many Harley Mechanics claim synthetic oils "Spin the Bearing" - I tell them "No buttbreath, the bearing spun in the housing because the case was not properly machined in the first place for a proper press fit."

Rant off on Harley lubrication.

I would love to see Mercury Marine build Harley-Davidson's motors - I would even pass on a Honda for one...

Have you seen the new Indians? Nice. Don't get me wrong, I like the Buhles(SP?) and the new blacked out sleds. Harley's in general disappoint me because of their lack of tight quality control on motors & gearboxes.

ibewgypsie
05-13-2003, 05:19 AM
My canuck buddy, just purchase S&S cases, a Baker 6 speed, spyke starter,accell electrical, dyna ignition, S&S E carb, and dealer take off's. You will end up with a better machine than a real harley. Play with it a year and sell it , make money.
we both know where the real custom frames come from too don't we? (here)

My current bike project is in a slump. The pontiac quad motor is sitting getting dusty. Too many irons in the fire.

I am tinkering with using a car front wheel drive axle, brake in the next frame I build. I figure on welding a tube on the spindle, passing the driveshaft through it , a press bearing, and the sprocket pulley on the outside of the single swingarm side. I like that cause you can see the whole custom wheel. Ie: a 8x18 inch car custom rim @$225 instead of the 800 dollar harley rim. (more money in my pocket)
With the sprocket on the outside of the swingarm, it looks like the wheel is not attached, just floating.

Ohh yeah we were talking about oil? Sorry.. I wander and ramble.

Thrud
05-14-2003, 04:13 AM
Dave
Good idea. I have seen many motors butchered with stroker kits. I kept telling them to keep it stock - cuz they were knuckleheads (not the KH motor, just dumb ****s) - but they never listen...

Does S&S have a website? I might be interested in a desk ornament... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
(actually I would like to build one)

ibewgypsie
05-14-2003, 06:48 AM
http://www.sscycle.com/145/145c.asp On the bottom of that page it Looks like a twin carbureted Knucklehead with open chains and nothing else other than what is needed. Made my thingie stick out.. whoo hoo.. I had a open primary panhead, I sold it to a friend in chattanooga who lost the tips of 4 fingers in it while drunk and reaching for the kickstand.
You get ready to build, and I got some links for you. It ain't nothing but a machine.

I made my last bike with mostly dealer take offs for about 6,000 dollars. (I sold "how I did it" on ebay for $10 a copy)
I sold the evo to a friend to buy my mill and lathe for 8500, He got in a accident and State farm insurance gave him 18,000 for the bike. You build a custom right and it is worth more than a factory bike, otherwise, less.

And yes, drastically increasing the horsepower of any vehicle more than designed gives LOTS more trouble. Strokers love to be pushed. Having a 9 second street bike is no fun if you have to push it. 80Ci is enough for me.

But yes, this is the S&S site listed.

Thrud
05-14-2003, 05:03 PM
Thanks bro. I will keep that in mind if I get around to it.