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snorman
11-14-2001, 07:52 PM
I'm thinking about buying one of the 9x20 import lathes to play with at home. Due to my experience with the brand and what I've read on the bbs, I think it will be the Jet.

Does anyone own/use one of these? How about one of the other brands? Like it? Any other info would help.

Steve

bdarin
11-14-2001, 09:07 PM
I've been asking the same questions about mills. The consensus on this board seems to be to go with Jet, forget the cheesy imports.

snorman
11-14-2001, 10:09 PM
Well, Jet is one of those Asian imports, but from my experience, not at all cheesy. I've heard nothing but good about Jet on this board as well. The Jet lathe is about twice the price of a Grizzly but from the horror stories I've heard about the cheapies, it probably would be worth it. I've been hearing about casting sand in the spindle bearings, grinder swarf, loose fasteners, you name it. I'm wondering if Jet takes care of this stuff a little better at the factory. I want a good ready to run lathe, not a "kit". I'm guessing the Jet is the same basic lathe, just put together better. Yes/No?

Dave the Nave
11-14-2001, 10:54 PM
Cheezy!?,Whoa!!,I'll tell ya somethin about cheezy.Please save your money and avoid Harbor Freight machines(for lack of the better word)I know ,I've been there.I bought a small Harbor Freight lathe(3 by 9).And Man,all you could do was sharpen pencils with it.I spent more time fidgiting with the machine than it was worth.I could'nt even sell it at a garage sale for 15 bucks.I wound up launching it into a dumpster.("Shux,,I shoulda saved the lamp chord wire off that thing").Just my 1.5 cents.

mike thomas
11-14-2001, 11:28 PM
I looked around my area for a used lathe and had little luck. I ended up buying an import lathe, 12x36. I found that the machinery dealers within several hundred miles of here all carried the same brand, Birmingham. They also all wanted the same steep price. I located a place selling them in Reno, NV and purchased it over the phone. I also saved several hundred dollars, even after shipping. I am quite happy with it as it meets my needs. No trouble in 9 months or so. The business in Reno is Bill's Tool Crib. They are on the web, pictures and everything. You can pick up extras elsewhere as this is where Bill makes his profit. Good luck, Mike

martin_vanmeter
11-15-2001, 09:41 AM
I have the Jet BD920 and with the exception of the light weight compound, it's OK. I primarily bought it to use while I was rebuilding a South Bend 9" Model A bench lathe - they both have 1 1/2" x 8 spindle threads (most other import 9x20 lathes have a weird metric threaded spindle). The Jet is accurate (.0003 TIR on drill rod when turned between centers - not using a chuck) and I have had zero problems with the lathe.

All that said....the SB 9" is still twice the lathe and 50 years older.

IF I had it to do over again, and this was going to be my only lathe, I would opt for at least a 12" lathe - belt or gear head - but at least a 12" or better. The Asian 12" and 13" lathes are much heavier and more capable than the lightweight 9x20's.

There is an egroup of 9x20 owners you may want to check....lot's of mod's to the equipment and user experience.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9x20Lathe

aero
11-15-2001, 03:38 PM
Northerntool is selling the Jet 9x20 for $1000 during some Christmas special. Normally the price I've seen for this lathe is in the $1300-$1400 range. Their website is http://www.northerntool.com (that should be a clickable link, hope so.) This puts it $240 over Grizzly's.

snorman
11-15-2001, 06:18 PM
Thanks guys. That helps a lot.

docn8as
11-16-2001, 01:10 AM
snorman , check the low speed & see if u can live w/ it!!!
best wishes
doc
ps ...can get a good logan 10 atlas crftsmn ,OR s.b. for that kind of money & any of these are a lot more machine imho.

mike thomas
11-16-2001, 07:04 PM
snorman, I gotta agree with Doc's last post. I had forgotten that I had come across a number of smaller lathes that were in quite good shape, and considerably less expensive than what I paid. A few looked new, and included many, many accessories. I passed them up only because the spindle bore was less than I was looking for. I could have spent 50% less on good used American, and been quite happy if I had not been looking for a larger spindle bore. Mike

snorman
11-16-2001, 07:51 PM
Well sure, a like new 12 or 14 inch would be my first choice. But where is one to find such a thing locally? I have no desire to travel hundreds of miles tracking one down only to find that it's already sold or whatever. Buy one sight unseen and you're at the mercy of the seller. Good luck on that. I don't have the expertise to evaluate a used lathe anyway, so the Jet sounds good enough for now. I once saw the ways of a new Logan completely worn out in a year. They were h&g too. I'm limited to 110 volt also.

I've heard talk of people getting spindle speed down to 75 or so on the 9x20's and I think it's possible to fabricate a back gear even. Actually that seems to be one of the selling points of the Asian lathes; you can modify to your heart's content with no fear of ruining a good machine. I may think on it some more however. Thanks all for the good input.

Steve

Orlon Fides
12-03-2001, 12:56 AM
whoa 1400$ for the jet 9x20 is off! it lists for 1040$ you should be able to get it for 944$, just go to jets website and find the closest dealer. I just bought this lathe and got it today. and let me tell you, what a pain in the butt. here is the story so far, I probably should have bought this lathe from enco, from what I understand this is the exact same lathe cast in the same foundry as the jet except it cost $795.00 and is blue. the major problem with buying either lathe is you cant see the lathe you are getting before you buy it. the reason I got the jet was beacause I thought there would be a greater deal of quality control.but I was probably wrong, enco said they inspect there lathes before they ship them to you, they degrease them, and make sure they work and they run them under power. I have read that most of the chinese lathes come from the same place.however the harbor freight lathe I saw was very poor quality.its like HF sells the substandard rejects from the factory. anyway with the jet lathe nobody who sells jet, stocks the lathe. what happened to me was the company I bought mine from after they sold me the lathe for $944.10 tryed to make me pay for the shipping to have it shipped to there store. and then they charged sales tax on top of that! not to mention I had to go to the bottom of my state to pick it up. enco ships their lathe to your door and it ships free right now. that aside you should be able to get the jet lathe for 944$ and not have to pay shipping if you pick it up. I dont know how enco's lathe is beacause I have never seen one in person. my jet lathe came to the store I bought it from, direct from the factory so this is probably true of all the jet 9x20's; after I took the plastic off the machine I noticed several rust spots which apear to be from not coating the machine with grease all the way. some of the casting are obviously rusted under the paint beacause in areas the paint flakes off and you can see the rust. they just painted over it. the lathe bed is okay on its external surfaces but if you run your finger on the inside, paint and sand falls off. they just painted over the sand dirt and god knows what else. but even so this lathe is infinely better than the one I saw at harbor freight. the enco is probably the exact same quality as the jet but cheaper and comes to your door. but I dont know for sure. any way the jet looks pretty good otherwise, I havnt run it under power yet I will be degreasing for a while.

Turbo
12-03-2001, 10:19 PM
Orlon,

I was about to ask the exact question you just answered. I was trying to determine the difference between the Enco and Jet aside from price. I was leaning towards the Enco mainly because of their apparant good business reputation.

I'm new to all this so please let us know how the Jet works out for you. I don't really need a lathe but have been thinking for some time I'd like to get one to play with.

Greg

KenS
12-04-2001, 07:49 AM
There's big diffences between machines made in China and those made in Taiwan. The Rong Fu brand that Enco sells is Taiwanese, the Enco is Chinese. Call and ask them, they'll tell you.

Taiwan is better across the board. Jet is Taiwan. HF is Chinese.

This is the prime, and maybe only difference between any of the asian machine tools.

None of them come anywhere close to the old names in American machine tools.

martin_vanmeter
12-04-2001, 09:01 AM
In reply to two previous posts.

Orlon: sorry to hear your Jet had some initial quality problems. Mine did not, but I bought it 2 years ago. Quality control seems to be a fleeting thing with Asian tools.

KenS: Careful about linking certain brands to Taiwan vs. China. Granted most larger Jet machines are Taiwanese, but the BD920N is made in China for Jet, probably at the same factory that makes everyone elses. And I agree, in general machines made in Taiwan have much better fit and finish than those made in China. The Chinese are capable of much better quality, but the importers are just looking for the lowest cost.

aero
12-04-2001, 10:45 AM
Well, I don't want to post for fear of embarrassment, but perhaps I should just to add more info to the pile. I too wanted a good American lathe but could not find one. I did find one but it needed lots of work (including machining the bed) plus it is overall nearly 5 feet long - too long for my garage. I caved in and bought a Jet - the 9x20 (My project has been on hold for a while now.) I found NorthernTool has it for $999. Great. They charge $179 for shipping. (this seems incredibly steep to me) When's the next time I'll find a Jet, which from what I was reading should be pretty much the best of the imports...? What a friggen nightmare. I opened the crate (which is about the lamest crate I have ever seen by the way) and saw several things - the plastic bag the machine is in had already been opened, the protective paper had already been torn off the chuck, the power switch sheet metal housing had been dented with paint flaking off, the power cord was hanging out, and of course the machine is dirty because the bag was open. Not to mention all the castings had paint chips at the corners. It basically looked like a reconditioned floor model that had already been shipped to a customer who opened it and sent it back because of the dent. I am now going through the process of filing a claim with the freight company even though the damage was done before shipping (obvious if you saw it)... I won't have a lathe now until sometime in January at the earliest. I want to call NorthernTool and have them cancel the order and credit back my Visa then rethink putting my project on hold a little more... maybe a Southbend will show up? Or, if I really have to... buy it from Enco, or maybe even by the 9x20 from Grizzly? This is sad... anyone know of a Southbend in Portland, OR?
One thing I did notice about the Jet that I didn't like - the drive belt is TINY. Can't go to NAPA to get a new one.... (I don't think)

Philt
12-04-2001, 09:20 PM
"the chinese lathes come from the same place.however the harbor freight lathe I saw was very poor quality.its like HF sells the substandard rejects from the factory."

I have only seen a Jet 9x20 from a distance, however, I have examined a HF 9X20 and it doesn't look all that inferior to me. This seems to match with the experience of others who own them (on the 9X20 group on Yahoo). Quite frankly when you consider that you can buy the HF version for $699 plus $5.95 (use the Order from Printed catalog option on their web page) shipping and no sales tax I would be willing to take my chances. The only real advantage if any to the Jet is that it comes with an English threaded spindle. In any case whether it is a Jet or a HF version you will have to make certain modifications to the lathe if you want it to work to its full potential. Disassembling and cleaning may just be one of the things you have to do to insure it is OK to start with.

Thrud
12-05-2001, 12:53 AM
Aero,

If you are having problems with the retailer call your Visa Card bank and tell them to reverse the charges - you may even have 100% buyer protection on your card - check it out!

Dave

snorman
12-05-2001, 01:38 AM
OK, that settles it for me. I'm not getting a Jet 9x20! I plan to ask around a bit and see if anyone knows of any used machinery in this area. If not, I guess I can do without.

Steve

aero
12-05-2001, 10:26 AM
Good suggestion Thrud - I never thought of that because I've never had to do it before. I have a really good card - they will probably work with me there if I go that route. I'm wondering though, if I can't find a used american lathe in my price range anytime soon, should I let the spindle thread issue sway me toward the Jet instead of the cheaper alternatives? They all come with a 4 jaw chuck and a face plate... I can't see me needing to change tooling on the spindle in the future unless something happens to the chuck...
Of course, if NorthernTool wants to throw a few things in to keep my business on this one...

kelargo
12-05-2001, 12:34 PM
This subject seems to have gathered a lot of attention...

What opinions does the list readers have on Shoptask tools?

Ken

rmatel
12-05-2001, 06:03 PM
Just curious.
It seems that the alternative to an "asian" machine is a used American made machine. Are these used machines better because they have already been "cleaned up" and fixed by their previous owners? What is the "original" condition and quality of an inexpensive/"low end" (relatively) American made machine?

old sass
12-05-2001, 08:08 PM
I have been watching the websites for home hobbiest's and no one speaks highly on the 'Shoptask' 3 in 1 machines. Just sold a Smithy and have a separate lathe/mill now. The 3 in 1's are very much a compromise. I am sorry I bought one!

Thrud
12-05-2001, 10:26 PM
RMatel

No, the American machines are just better materials and workmanship - made in the days people gave a rat's butt about quality - for the most part.

Aero,

I would keep looking, I do not know what you are looking for, but I have seen some snazzy machines on the net for sale by machinery dealers. Maybe do a search through www.thomasregister.com (http://www.thomasregister.com) - you may find what you require there.

Dave

Don't settle for less than good quality - not worth the impatience.

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 12-05-2001).]

Turbo
12-05-2001, 11:39 PM
Just want to make sure I understand correctly. The Jet, Grizzly, Harbor Frieght, & Enco 9x20's are essentially all the same machine yet in terms of quality they all differ? I was seriously looking at the Enco. Price wise it's as good or better than the Jet, but if the quality isn't there then price is a non issue for me. Is the Enco any better or worse than the Jet? I'd love to find an old Craftsman or Atlas but like someone already said, finding one that's complete and isn't damaged is a challenge. I'm new to this board & topic but so far you all have been a big help. Thanks.

Dave the Nave
12-06-2001, 12:30 PM
Has anyone tried www.machinetools.com (http://www.machinetools.com) ?

martin_vanmeter
12-06-2001, 01:36 PM
With regards to Enco lathes and mills, visit this site for a shop equiped with both an Enco 9x20 and an Enco mill/drill. Mr. McCoy seems happy with both. You might e-mail him for personal comments.

http://www.wcc.net/~jkmccoy/index.htm

Paul H
12-06-2001, 09:02 PM
Here is my take on the affordable home lathe issue.

The 3 in 1 machines are neither a lathe, nor a mill, but a heavy expensive drill press. Save your $.

The 9X20's by design are flimsy little machines, they can turn larger material then a Taig or Sherline, and offer threading capability, but won't necessarily hold as good a tolerance as the little machines, and cost more. As far as quality of Jet, Grizzly, HF, or your local distributor, it is a crap shoot.

The mythical used American machine. You may live in an industrial area where these are common, and can be had for reasonable $. You may live in an area where they are few and far between. You may get one and need to spend thousands of $'s and 100's of hours getting it in working order. You just may find a machine in great working order at a fair price, though you might have to wait 10 years to find it, or never find it.

So, where does that leave the leave the hopeful homeshop machinist? The various 12X36, 13X40 and 14X40 machines offered by Jet, Grizzly, Enco and your local dealer. These machines are not ideal, but they have sufficient mass and rigidity to do good work. The beds are hardened, and you won't wear them out in a life time of home work. They are big enough to do most anything you could come up with at home. Downside, you are looking at $2-3k, but should add another $1-2k or so for tooling. Can you swing $3-5k for the tool? That is a big chunk of change, but IMHO, its the price of entry for many of us.

I've considered so many times dropping the $1k on a 9X20, but I considered that a waste, and figured I'd just wait til I had the $2-3k for the 12-36, 13X40. Its been over 5 years, and I still haven't ordered the machine yet, but I know when I get it I'll have a machine capable of the work I want to do, rather then spending less money and getting something I won't be happy with.

Oso
12-06-2001, 09:08 PM
1) Check the Chaski BBB for a guy selling a SB in OR. He signs as "Brett near Portland OR". Might be sold, of course.

2) The main difference in old US and Chinese 9 x 20 machines is the US was made to use, the Chinese was made to sell. The 9 x 20 has speeds, feeds etc that would drive me up a wall. Some versions do not have a 1 1/2 x 8 spindle, but a "close" metric equivalent, that won't fit much. Some don't have the ability to thread a part to fit their own spindle, leaving you up a creek for backplates.

3)The 12" and up machines seem to be perfectly OK for a low-end machine, having the features needed and usable speeds. etc. They will have sample defects.

4) Of course, back in the day, the SB and Logan etc were sneered at by the folks running Monarchs and LeBlonds, American Pacemakers, etc.

5) Exceptions: The Atlas and some SB were made to sell, cheaper and lighter weight, some as flexible and bendy as the 9 x 20. But still had good features and performance

Orlon Fides
12-07-2001, 07:23 PM
yes the used american machines are the way to go, they are made of a real mass of metal, the only problem is the time needed to find a good one. I needed my lathe now. and now that I have lugged the jet 9x20 up four flights of stairs,(which would not be possible with a good american machine)I think I will keep it, rust spots and all. I think of it as a good first lathe. and later on when I get the space I will go for a used american machine. If you dont absolutly need it now. and you have the space, and you wont be needing to move it any time soon, you should realy take the time and search for a USA machine.

smoking joe
12-07-2001, 09:58 PM
I live in a machine depraved area.When I started looking for a lathe I wanted it right then."Not the right way to be"I called Sobel Mach. talked to him and got a good feeling.He invited me to come see what he had.I'm three states away and work six days a week no way I could do it.I told him what I wanted and what it would be used for.He said he could ship but if I picked up and saved the shipping I could afford more machine"true".I asked him to ship.He did.When the lathe came I was surprised.He not only sent the lathe but included a 3 jaw chuck a 4 jaw chuck a face plate a drive plate a tailstock drill chuck armstrong tooling and because I only have single phase he sent an extra single phase motor.The lathe was in very good shape.I've had no problems with it.I t has served me well for 4 years.All I've done is clean it and had to change the belt once.I would'nt trade this machine for two imports.I would recomend Sobel any time.Check his add in "HMS".

------------------

Oso
12-07-2001, 11:22 PM
Sobel is a really straight-up guy, even if he won't tolerate idjits.
His only problem is packing smaller stuff. Apparently, if wadded-up newspapers in a box isn't good enough, stuff breaks.
There have been a few comments over on the Chaski board about that. Stuff arriving bent etc.
But he apparently makes good on it. I have done some biz with him, and he has been honest as the day is long.

crypto
12-07-2001, 11:40 PM
For used American machinery (and foreign) in West coast area check the pages of Machinery Supermart. I receive it free every month. 80 pages of ads for machinetools of all description. www.machinerysupermart.com (http://www.machinerysupermart.com)

Thrud
12-08-2001, 01:32 AM
Gents,

You guys are giving up way too easy! Hell, I would drive anywhere in the US or Canada to get the machine I wanted when I wanted it (except Hawaii!). Shipping is not that expensive, but if I found the jewell of my dreams there is no way some air-seat jockey is going to mangle it.

It is tough to be a man, baby!

Dave ;-)

kap pullen
12-08-2001, 03:37 PM
Comment to Paul H
Maybe a part time job would help procure the 13 x 40 you've been saving for.
After all, this sounds like the machine of your dreams.
Five years is a long time to wait but it is worth waiting for.
I know, I have had a 13 x 40 gap bed since 1980.
We have been building all types of machined parts since 1969.
We have made everything from steel mill equipment, engine components for the A-10 Warthog fighter bomber, cardboard box machinery, steam engines to artillery pieces.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/kappullen/tractionenginebb1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/kappullen/kap2.jpg


The steel, and stainless barrels are made from new materials. The Bronze ones
Are cast in a commercial foundry of Navy Bronze in business for 75 years.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/kappullen/3pound2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/kappullen/drilling3.jpg

Because these materials are new, and not pulled from someone’s dumpster,
I will put a minimum bid at the cost of the material.

These cannon are sold as per EBAY rules as non-projectile firing and will be non- vented.

If you wish to make something else, by bidding on this item, you assume the risk and liabilities involved.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/kappullen/foundry1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/kappullen/swivel2.jpg

The basics are here, for a super detailed display piece, or field piece.
The heavy work has been done for your reproduction, or miniature.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/kappullen/sg7.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/kappullen/howitzer1.jpg

For more information check our website link to Cannon:

http://www.bluechipper.net/cannon/wrpCannon.html

Additional information about Bluechipper can be found at the following link:

http://www.bluechipper.net/wrpKAPSHome.html

Thank you for looking.

[This message has been edited by kap pullen (edited 11-06-2005).]

jkmccoy
12-08-2001, 10:36 PM
Comment to Paul H -

It sounds as if you have never used any of the machines that you so generously provide advice on. Perhaps you could confine your comments to your actual experience. I would bet large sums of money that I'm turning out far better lathe work on my "flimsy little" 9x20 than you are on the lathe you don't own.

Cheers,
J. Kelly McCoy
West Texas
<http://www.wcc.net/~jkmccoy>

smoking joe
12-09-2001, 10:15 PM
Taking time away from work cost more than shipping.Putting job and family ahead of hobby,yea it's tough to be man.

------------------

smoking joe
12-09-2001, 10:18 PM
Taking time away from work cost more than shipping.Putting job and family ahead of hobby,yea it's tough to be man.

------------------

kap pullen
12-10-2001, 12:02 AM
I started with a unamat, Than went to a Craftsman 6"( what a peice of junk that is).
Managed to build two steam engines a Rob Roy, and a Caribou steam loco on those machines,and loving every minute.
I salute you guys with your 9 x 20s.
Keep up the good work.
Kapullen

Daubie
12-10-2001, 01:00 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kelargo:
This subject seems to have gathered a lot of attention...

What opinions does the list readers have on Shoptask tools?

Ken</font>
---------------------------
Hi Ken,

I have a SHOPTASK 1998, 17-20 Gold Series. The lathe is not bad, though kind of short in length, but I do have a 16 1/2 inch swing! The machine has its shortcomings, but upgrade kits are available, which I have some, and a machine does not make a machinist. All a good machinist needs is a good set of files and maybe a vise. That is how one inventor made a prototype rifle in secret, while in prison, with files, eventually the US Army adopted it, don't remember who it was or what make of rifle, but I bet someone on this board knows. I don't have room in my basement for conventional machines, plus I am limited to 15 amp 110 volt fuses/breakers on my existing wiring. I would say a SHOPTASK is not very well suited to a beginning machinist with no or not much experience, I have 20 years experience in conventional tool room, but there are quite a few in that situation that have bought the SHOPTASK and like it. A good mechanical apptitude will help you.

There is a good brainstorming site for the SHOPTASK of over 2000 messages at www.delphi.com (http://www.delphi.com) You will want the Shopmaster/Shoptask Users Group or you can access it thru www.shoptask.com (http://www.shoptask.com) Do some reading, draw your own conclusions. There is a guy there that works his SHOPTASK in four decimal places with his custom modifications and has built many custom made CNC accessories for it. At the site he is CHUCK297, also he has his machine shop website at www.candgresearch.domainvalet.com (http://www.candgresearch.domainvalet.com)
-----------------------------
There is an ADDENDUM to the rifle analogy. A Mr. T. wrote me with the info this A.M. after 1st posting this, this being an edit(I don't want to use Mr.T's real name without his permission). The rifle made was the 1st prototype of the M-1, 30 caliber rifle. The prison inventor was "Carbine" Williams. The story was from a movie with Jimmy Stewart, I remember Gary Cooper, guess I was wrong. I never liked the M-16 rifle, it jammed way too easily, why can't they leave well enough alone, the M-1 was a great weapon, but a bit heavy. My wife's uncle a WWII Pacific MARINE loved his.

Take care.
Kurt




[This message has been edited by Daubie (edited 12-11-2001).]

Thrud
12-10-2001, 01:08 AM
Gents,

It is tough to get the money up for that dream machine when you do have a family to think of and limited income. There is nothing wrong with starting with that HF or whatever if that is what you can afford. It may not be the best machine, but at least it gets a person going when on a budget rather than sitting in the wings and just dreaming.
Many of us are hard on the Imports and perhaps unjustly considering the niche they fill. Once a person has used superior tools it is difficult to settle for less.

Our bitching and whining about the quality of these machines is not because they are crap, but because those of us fortunate enough to have used better machines understand what better tools do and we want to help reduce the anguish of you guys learning it the hard way.

By all means, if you can afford it, the better tools are worth it in the long run. I step down from the soap box now...

Daubie
12-10-2001, 01:28 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by snorman:
I'm thinking about buying one of the 9x20 import lathes to play with at home. Due to my experience with the brand and what I've read on the bbs, I think it will be the Jet.

Does anyone own/use one of these? How about one of the other brands? Like it? Any other info would help.

Steve</font>
---------------------------
Hi Steve,

I don't have a JET lathe but have run a 13 inch JET gearhead lathe at 220 volts that wasn't too bad, but noisy, in a small shop doing experimental prototype work, te lathe about the size of a SOUTH BEND 10K bench lathe.

The 9 inch lathe is not inspected at JET when they come in from TAIWAN, the bigger lathes are, I know this is true, I called JET and asked them. There is no right direction, that is reverse traverse, for left hand threading, but in one of VILLAGE PRESS's books there are plans to rectify this problem, unless of course they have modified the new ones. I just bought a JET bandsaw from J&L INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY
www.jlindustrial.com (http://www.jlindustrial.com) I was perfectly happy with what I got from J&L, except they are in Pennsylvania and charged me tax, I live in NEW YORK State. I paid $60 for freight on 150 pounds delivered to my door by YELLOW FREIGHT.

There is a group of a bunch of guys at YAHOO.com that shoot the bull about their 9 X 20's, I access them at www.egroups.com (http://www.egroups.com) Look for the "9 X 20 Lathe" (I think that's the title) group or do a search for "lathe" in the SEARCH box.

Take care,
Kurt

Daubie
12-10-2001, 01:53 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by aero:
Well, I don't want to post for fear of embarrassment, but perhaps I should just to add more info to the pile. I too wanted a good American lathe but could not find one. I did find one but it needed lots of work (including machining the bed) plus it is overall nearly 5 feet long - too long for my garage. I caved in and bought a Jet - the 9x20 (My project has been on hold for a while now.) I found NorthernTool has it for $999. Great. They charge $179 for shipping. (this seems incredibly steep to me) When's the next time I'll find a Jet, which from what I was reading should be pretty much the best of the imports...? What a friggen nightmare. I opened the crate (which is about the lamest crate I have ever seen by the way) and saw several things - the plastic bag the machine is in had already been opened, the protective paper had already been torn off the chuck, the power switch sheet metal housing had been dented with paint flaking off, the power cord was hanging out, and of course the machine is dirty because the bag was open. Not to mention all the castings had paint chips at the corners. It basically looked like a reconditioned floor model that had already been shipped to a customer who opened it and sent it back because of the dent. I am now going through the process of filing a claim with the freight company even though the damage was done before shipping (obvious if you saw it)... I won't have a lathe now until sometime in January at the earliest. I want to call NorthernTool and have them cancel the order and credit back my Visa then rethink putting my project on hold a little more... maybe a Southbend will show up? Or, if I really have to... buy it from Enco, or maybe even by the 9x20 from Grizzly? This is sad... anyone know of a Southbend in Portland, OR?
One thing I did notice about the Jet that I didn't like - the drive belt is TINY. Can't go to NAPA to get a new one.... (I don't think)</font>
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Hi,

I too had a problem with NORTHERN TOOL. I purchased a small 1 ton engine hoist last SPRING. It was supposed to come in two boxes UPS. I got ONE BOX, and was missing many pieces. It looked to me what I got was a parted out hoist to fill customer complaints. The hoist was made in CHINA. I called NORTHERN, they had me wait a couple weeks to make sure the other box was not still in transit, well it was not. So I ordered another one, and when it arrived, they had sent me UPS return mailing labels at no charge for my first order, everything then was A-OK. The hoist worked fine lifting machinery in my low ceiling basement.

To be fair, I have ordered other stuff from NORTHERN previously with no problems, but those orders were not machinery. They have a little single cylinder tachometer energised by just a 9 volt alkaline battery that works great to tune up my gas mower and snowblower.

What ever you do, don't order your JET thru AMAZON.com, I have heard a few horror stories about incomplete orders and it takes six months to rectify the situation, AMAZON has no phone number, access is via e-mail!

Kurt

snorman
12-10-2001, 02:01 AM
Thanks daubie, I've found most everything on the web about the 9x20's. Evidently the lousy compound design has been around several years so I doubt that a revisal is likely soon.

I've looked at the Jet 13 inchers too, but the price is quite a lot higher. Have to save my pin money for one of those. :-) I'm limited to 110 volt like you, so it's difficult to get anything that'll do real work.

Can't help thinking about that guy who made the rifle in prison using files. I bet making the barrel was the hard part huh? :-O

Steve

Daubie
12-10-2001, 04:25 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Thrud:
Gents,

It is tough to get the money up for that dream machine when you do have a family to think of and limited income. There is nothing wrong with starting with that HF or whatever if that is what you can afford. It may not be the best machine, but at least it gets a person going when on a budget rather than sitting in the wings and just dreaming.
Many of us are hard on the Imports and perhaps unjustly considering the niche they fill. Once a person has used superior tools it is difficult to settle for less.

Our bitching and whining about the quality of these machines is not because they are crap, but because those of us fortunate enough to have used better machines understand what better tools do and we want to help reduce the anguish of you guys learning it the hard way.

By all means, if you can afford it, the better tools are worth it in the long run. I step down from the soap box now...</font>
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Hi Thrud,

It is good to see someone practice a little bit of civility on these machine shop boards. Thank you.

I like to ride my old clunker 25 year old PANASONIC 10 speed bicycle occasionally. I'm always making some modification for it. I like to be SEEN out in the country, especially in rolling hills so I made a contraption to hold a bike flag mounted on a fiberglass pole, about 1/4 inch diameter pole. It flies about 7 feet up off the road and have been told drivers in cars see it a 1/2 mile off. I mounted the contraption to my rear saddlebag rack.

A new pole is oversize, so it needs to be turned down a liitle bit to fit my holder. At the time I dreamed this up I had no lathe, but a had a bench vise and a power drill! I put the drill in the vise, I made up a "tailstock" out of a piece of wood held in a portable vise a ways down my workbench and an eyescrew. I inserted the flag pole thru the eye, flag is past the "tailstock", inserted the end into the drill chuck just enough to grasp, this end being my "headstock." I triggered the power drill, lock on, filed the end to a nice light tap fit, and when done cut the tip off----in effect----a poorman's lathe. HA!

Kurt

Thrud
12-10-2001, 11:28 PM
My computer burped - sorry

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 12-11-2001).]

Thrud
12-10-2001, 11:36 PM
Kurt,

Have you ever seen FN L1A1 rifles? Best 7.62mm NATO ever made. Made to last a lifetime. Canada dumped all the FN's (C1A1, C1A2, C2A2) in favour of the M16 and then banned the FN's. (FN = Fabrique Nationale - Belgium) Best rifle I ever used.

smoking joe
12-11-2001, 01:43 AM
The man who developed the rifle in prison was Marshal Williams from the smalltown of Wade N.C..My Grandfather had the misfortune to serve time with him.Mr.Williams drew a diagram of his rifle on the back of a calander and gave it to my grandfather.Also his shop is preserved at the museum of history in Raliegh,N.C..

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Daubie
12-11-2001, 08:30 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Thrud:
Kurt,

Have you ever seen FN L1A1 rifles? Best 7.62mm NATO ever made. Made to last a lifetime. Canada dumped all the FN's (C1A1, C1A2, C2A2) in favour of the M16 and then banned the FN's. (FN = Fabrique Nationale - Belgium) Best rifle I ever used.

</font>
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Hi,

No, to your question about
using the new fangled rifles. I saw on TV, probably the HISTORY CHANNEL, about the US's new M16 version, but never have fired it. I was 22 when I entered the NAVY SEABEES. I qualfied on light weapons, the M-16, M-60 machine gun, the 1911 Colt Automatic .45 Cal. pistol and a 12 gage shotgun for security watches. I never fired weapons before or since my NAVY days. Quite a feat to qualify expert with an M16 without a scope, at 200 yards, I only did it once, I still think someone was helping me out or at least missed their own target! Ha! I never thought hunting deer with a rifle was much sport, so took up bow hunting, but alas when confronted with deer at very close range, didn't have the heart to kill them, fun to stalk though.

Kurt

Daubie
12-11-2001, 08:47 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by smoking joe:
The man who developed the rifle in prison was Marshal Williams from the smalltown of Wade N.C..My Grandfather had the misfortune to serve time with him.Mr.Williams drew a diagram of his rifle on the back of a calander and gave it to my grandfather.Also his shop is preserved at the museum of history in Raliegh,N.C..

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Hi,

Thanks with your reply and info. Well, you just ruined my plans on my drive down trip to Florida in April, I usually go down RT.81, less New Yorker traffic, I don't mind truckers. I got to check out this museum in Raleigh, NC, do you have a name and address of the museum?

I went down to Washington, DC on Easter in 1980, on an ulcer diet, no less. Try to find non-fried foods down there! We spent several days checking out the museums. Over at the Smithsonian, they had a display of what a steam fired machine shop was like in about the 1850's, I think it was. AND they had a 1920 Hendey engine lathe on display, too, just like the ones we used at work, we had two---funny! Hendey's are nice old clunker lathes. Like I said, I learned on old worn out machinery.

Kurt

smoking joe
12-15-2001, 08:11 PM
I sorry I had the town that Marhshall Williams was from wrong.He was from Godwin N.C..Godwin and Wade are about 5 miles apart on US-301 inCumberland county .I have been unable to find out if his shop is still at the N.C. Museum of History.I was refering to newspaper article on him of about 4 years ago that stated it was.Incedently he did have access to a machine shop in prison not just files.But he did have about 50 arms patents to his name.If you come through Cumberland Co. on US-301 you will see about 5 steam engines standing by the road this is where Mr. Williams family still live.If I find out any more about his shop I will post it.

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