PDA

View Full Version : Way OT..water conditioner/softener question



mochinist
11-06-2007, 06:42 PM
I had a plumber out today to give me a quote on installing a water softener loop so I could install a softener, my water is terribly hard here. Anyways why he was here he mentioned another option, it is a water conditioner that goes by the brand name "Hydrochanger". I have never heard of it and I didn't find a whole lot of info with google, this site did pop up http://www.chem1.com/CQ/catscams.html and the guy seems like he knows what he is talking about, but I have to be honest, I totally failed chemistry and wouldn't know either way.

This is the hydrochanger website, the things arent cheap, but the cost will end up being about the same as buying a water softener and having them install a loop. http://www.hydrochanger.com/homepagemain.htm




Instead of retyping the FAQ I will just copy paste from their website.
Questions and Answers
For Both The
Hydrochanger and HydroExpress
Water Treatment System


What is a Hydrochanger?
The Hydrochanger is an inline water conditioner. It is not a water softener. It improves the physical condition of the water for all your property. What is a HydroExpress system?
The HydroExpress system is a small filtration tank that improves the condition, taste and odor of the water in the whole house.The Hydrochanger is the main component of the HydroExpress system. How does the Hydrochanger work?
It works by the basic principles of fluid and electro mechanics in our unique design. The formulation of our Hydrochanger system mechanically eliminates the cohesion of scale causing mineral particles in the water. After water passes over the media in the Hydrochanger, the minerals are free of the electrical charge that promotes adhesion to surfaces and the resulting scale build up and corrosion. The result is improved water quality and longer service life for appliances and water handling equipment. What will the HydroExpress system do for me?
The filtration tank will remove chlorine compounds, water odors and other distasteful compounds found in water. This improves your drinking, laundry and bathing water dramatically. The Hydrochanger water conditioner will remove and prevent scale, reduce hard water spotting, reduce soap and detergent usage. Additionally:
. It will clean and rinse your laundry clothes better.
. It will provide better water for your turf and vegetation by breaking down hardpan soil and increase percolation in to the soil. Harmful salts in the soil will be leached out.
. You can reduce your water usage by 20 - 50% on you turf and vegetation once the soil is conditioned. What kind of maintenance and service is needed?
There is no maintenance , no electricity and no service contracts.
The HydroExpress filtration tank media will have to be replaced after 3 years - approximate cost $100-$150. How long does the conditioned water stay conditioned?
It stays almost permanently conditioned and there is virtually no flow restriction, when matched to the correct line size and flow rates. How long will the HydroExpress system last?
You can expect years of service.There are no moving parts to wear out. Each system comes with a 10 year warranty and a six month buy back. (http://www.hydrochanger.com/gurantee.htm)The Hydrochanger water conditioner is a non-sacrificial and non-corrosive unit. Where do I install the system?
For all of your property, the Hydrochanger water conditioner can go inline with a by-pass right after the water meter. It can also be installed before the hot water heater. The HydroExpress filtration tank is installed before the hot water heater. The HydroExpress system is the natural solution for your hard water problems

tattoomike68
11-06-2007, 07:01 PM
Get a RO water system just for food, more if you are rich. I feel bad for you folks who drink toilet water. :(

snowman
11-06-2007, 07:15 PM
Get a RO water system just for food, more if you are rich. I feel bad for you folks who drink toilet water. :(

Dont knock it til ya try it.

We are just recycling nutrients!

mochinist
11-06-2007, 07:17 PM
Get a RO water system just for food, more if you are rich. I feel bad for you folks who drink toilet water. :(I have an RO sytem under my kitchen sink, doesn't help with the shower though

tattoomike68
11-06-2007, 07:59 PM
I have an RO sytem under my kitchen sink, doesn't help with the shower though


Ewwww I lived in a place like that once, the city engineers needed kicked in the balls over pumping that poop down the water lines.

I will move before I live in a toilet

Jim Caudill
11-06-2007, 08:43 PM
I didn't take a great deal of time to study this, but what I picked up is that this is a treatment that is supposed to prevent the build up of "scale" or lime (Calcium Chloride) deposits on the plumbing. Whether this works or not, is immaterial in my opinion. The desired result is to have water with reduced Calcium. This device does not do that.

Effective RO treatment requires removal of the calcium as well as Sodium ions. I have a car wash with an elaborate water treatment system. First, ALL water that comes in thru my 2" main goes through the water softener. I use about 100lbs of salt for every regeneration (my brine tank holds about 600 lbs of salt). I can soften about 18,000 gallons between regenerations. Next, the water goes through a carbon filter to remove the Sodium ions introduced by the softening process. The water then passes thru a .5micron filter before being pumped through the Reverse Osmosis membranes and then is stored in a large plastic tank.

All of this is to say that if there were an easier way, the car wash industry would know about it. There is a de-ionization method that requires consumable chemicals and that most in the industry shy away from.

mochinist
11-06-2007, 09:07 PM
Thanks Jim

CCWKen
11-06-2007, 09:14 PM
I had an RO system under the cabinet a few years ago. After getting the second water bill, I ripped it out. For every gallon of processed water in the storage tank, it dumps five gallons down the drain. For a septic system, that's too much "green grass" as far as I'm concerned.

mochinist
11-06-2007, 09:26 PM
I had an RO system under the cabinet a few years ago. After getting the second water bill, I ripped it out. For every gallon of processed water in the storage tank, it dumps five gallons down the drain. For a septic system, that's too much "green grass" as far as I'm concerned.Mine is a low water waste unit, I cant remember the amount though. My water bill didnt go up any noticeable amount after I installed it, the pool is different story though:eek:

Mad Scientist
11-06-2007, 11:32 PM
Not knowing anything about a "Hydrochanger" I would tend to be skeptical of its claims.

I have my own well which gives me nice hard water. So I start out with a 5 micron sediment filter to remove all the large rocks and stones, then comes the water softener (They not that hard to install, I donít think you should need a plumber.) the softened water is fed throughout the whole house. Although for the kitchen sink it also goes thru an activated charcoal filter. Then for drinking purposes that water then goes to the RO unit. It pre-filters with a second activated charcoal filter then the RO filter and finally a third activated charcoal filter. What comes out is some really clean water that tastes great.

CCWKen is correct when he says that a RO unit waste a lot of water in the process of making some clean water. For me with my own well this is not a problem but if you are paying for city water by the gallon this can start to add up.

On the other hand a RO unit is the only effective way to remove chlorine and fluoride (stuff that you really do not want to be drinking) but are chemicals that many cities love to add to their water because they are suppose to be good for you. Wrong!

cybor462
11-07-2007, 12:10 AM
I have a Waterboss softner got it from Home Depot. We have hard, pukey water (sulfur odor) iron and all kinds of other junk. When we built the house we went right off the well. In a month the toilets started turning reddish brown, all kinds of slime in the tanks and smelled like a methane sulfur plant. :confused:
We checked into the other systems that cost billions and went with this Waterboss. It uses a 40 lb. bag of pellets in 2 months. No more staining or odor. We then use a filter jugged watercooler for drinking water.
So far it works for us. :)

SGW
11-07-2007, 07:40 AM
Not knowing much about it, that "hydrocharger" sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. As I read it, it doesn't say it removes anything from the water...so you still have hard water. It just doesn't build up scale (if they are to be believed).

I'd go with an established technology.

mayfieldtm
11-07-2007, 09:21 AM
My brother blamed Mesa's water for his stomach cancer.
Tom M.

mochinist
11-07-2007, 10:34 AM
Not knowing anything about a "Hydrochanger" I would tend to be skeptical of its claims.

I have my own well which gives me nice hard water. So I start out with a 5 micron sediment filter to remove all the large rocks and stones, then comes the water softener (They not that hard to install, I donít think you should need a plumber.) the softened water is fed throughout the whole house. Although for the kitchen sink it also goes thru an activated charcoal filter. Then for drinking purposes that water then goes to the RO unit. It pre-filters with a second activated charcoal filter then the RO filter and finally a third activated charcoal filter. What comes out is some really clean water that tastes great.

CCWKen is correct when he says that a RO unit waste a lot of water in the process of making some clean water. For me with my own well this is not a problem but if you are paying for city water by the gallon this can start to add up.

On the other hand a RO unit is the only effective way to remove chlorine and fluoride (stuff that you really do not want to be drinking) but are chemicals that many cities love to add to their water because they are suppose to be good for you. Wrong!I dont need the plumber to install the softener itself, I just have an older house and it wasn't plumbed for a water softener where I need to put it, I can solder and all that, but sometimes it is better to let the pro's do a nice professional job, since I want to sell the place someday.:) Besides I work 50 to 60 hrs a week and I dont feel like doing it.




Sorry about your brothers cancer, Mayfield. I certainly don't drink the stuff until it has been purified. I guess I do brush my teeth with it though, there is probably a lot of other things I have done that will give me cancer before the water does.:eek: