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Your Old Dog
11-07-2007, 09:14 AM
I think that's what I'm after.

I need a 12V selenoid (?) that has about a 1" throw to actuate a blade angle control pin on my ATV snow plow. As it is now, I have to get off the damn plow to pull the pin, turn the blade by hand and then release the pin into a different hole to lock it.

The old washing machines used to have 120V long throw "selenoids" on them to shift gears and such. Is that what I'm looking for? A selenoid?

Ebay shows nothing but starter selenoids for the most part.

John Stevenson
11-07-2007, 09:19 AM
Over here some trucks have very powerful solenoids on the starter motor itself that pull the pinion into engagement.

Would one of these be any good ?

.

Your Old Dog
11-07-2007, 09:27 AM
Thanks John but I think it would be pretty macho for the light duty task at hand. I got the idea to try "actuator" on ebay and that brought back a bunch of what I'm looking for but they sure are pricey. What I need is something like a car trunk lock actuator with maybe 4 or 5 pounds of pull and maybe 1" of throw. I haven't a clue what to ask for.

Swarf&Sparks
11-07-2007, 09:38 AM
An electric central locking actuator may do the job for you and they're cheap from any discount auto-parts.

1" is a long throw for a solenoid, and the force is exponential along the stroke. IE, least force when you most need it.

Swarf&Sparks
11-07-2007, 09:41 AM
On re-reading your post, maybe what you need is a wiper motor, with further chain and sprocket reduction (pushbike parts).
Then you could control the angle from the driving seat. The worm reduction on the wiper motor/box will hold the blade at any angle.

I've used this setup for garage door openers, etc. Plenty of torque at 12 V.

pntrbl
11-07-2007, 09:44 AM
A door lock solenoid from a car door at the junkyard might work YOD. My SIL is using one to lock up the front axle on his Jeep. Redneck engineering at it's finest.:D

Nawh, that won't work. I did a re-read too .....

SP

Swarf&Sparks
11-07-2007, 09:46 AM
You might cause some confusion there SP.
The locking actuators are actually a motor with gear reduction to rack and pinion, not a solenoid.

pntrbl
11-07-2007, 09:49 AM
I tend to sow confusion wherever I go Swarf! LOL! Had to use the edit ....

SP

Swarf&Sparks
11-07-2007, 09:58 AM
No worries bro.
Let's just save this man gettin' his feet cold in the snow :D

NiftyNev
11-07-2007, 10:06 AM
I did a bit of a Google search and found that if you use the words "12V Cylindrical Solenoids" you may find something that will suit your needs.

Here's an example - http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=1108.pdf

Nev

balddave
11-07-2007, 10:15 AM
www.allelectronics.com has good surplus stuff, might find something there, i like them i've had good luck with them

www.solenoidcity.com no personal experience but i'm sure they'll have somehting to fit the bill

www.newark.com if memory serves me correct they have a decent selection.

Good Luck
Dave

kendall
11-07-2007, 11:47 AM
I'm with John on this one, Use a Chevy starter solenoid, make a pin with an extended/oversized head that takes the place of the plunger and mount the solonoid directly on the arm.

Reason being that I used to build/install/repair those stupid snow plows, and have found that unless the blade and pin holes are aligned correctly they often require a bit of pressure to pull.

Hated that job, noone wanted to fix their plows untill the night that big snow was in the forecast, then 50 people would show up an hour before it was expected and want it done RIGHT NOW!!!

Ken.

edit: yeah, mean the one that bolts directly to the starter body!

gellfex
11-07-2007, 12:17 PM
An electric central locking actuator may do the job for you and they're cheap from any discount auto-parts.

1" is a long throw for a solenoid, and the force is exponential along the stroke. IE, least force when you most need it.

I agree, the fall off of force will almost certainly fail the solenoid idea unless it is MASSIVE. A screw linear actuator could provide as much force as you need, and is pretty easy to rig up. You just need to set up microswitches with diodes as limit stops going to a DPDT switch.

Fasttrack
11-07-2007, 12:33 PM
1) buy a larger engine for atv
2) buy hydraulic pump and jerry rig to engine
3) buy two dual acting cylinders... 1 dinky one and one larger one
4) buy hydraulic control box and solenoid
5) install dinky cylinder (controlled by solenoid) to pull pin and large cylinder (controlled by manual valve) to move blade

done - a cheap, highly practical and easy solution

:D :D

cybor462
11-07-2007, 03:50 PM
I think that's what I'm after.

I need a 12V selenoid (?) that has about a 1" throw to actuate a blade angle control pin on my ATV snow plow. As it is now, I have to get off the damn plow to pull the pin, turn the blade by hand and then release the pin into a different hole to lock it.

The old washing machines used to have 120V long throw "selenoids" on them to shift gears and such. Is that what I'm looking for? A selenoid?

Ebay shows nothing but starter selenoids for the most part.

Might be too simple but why don't you just use a spring backed plunger with a cable and lever. Pull on the lever it pulls the pin back, swivel the blade, release the lever and the spring forces it back home.
Or am I way off base?

Evan
11-07-2007, 07:11 PM
Nix on the solenoid too. One inch throw is a very long throw and the solenoid would be the size of a pop can. Magnetism falls off with the cube of distance so the solenoid has very little pull at the beginning of the stroke.

A motor actuator or a vacuum actuator would work well. A vacuum actuator would be easy to make and could be tapped into the power brake reservoir. A 1" diameter vacuum plunger will have about 10 lbs of pull.

Your Old Dog
11-07-2007, 07:40 PM
On re-reading your post, maybe what you need is a wiper motor, with further chain and sprocket reduction (pushbike parts).
Then you could control the angle from the driving seat. The worm reduction on the wiper motor/box will hold the blade at any angle.

I've used this setup for garage door openers, etc. Plenty of torque at 12 V.

I don't know that I'd have a lot of confidence in the wiper motor thing but you gave me an idea for a small worm drive winch that I already have. It may be that I can just remove the pin entirely and use a dc motor driven winch with a cable loop of maybe 30" or so. In other words, the cable would be tight and capable of moving the blade left or right and hold it in relative position until the next time I hit the motor. As of now the selenoid idea is on hold to see if I might be able to come up with something better.


1) buy a larger engine for atv
2) buy hydraulic pump and jerry rig to engine
3) buy two dual acting cylinders... 1 dinky one and one larger one
4) buy hydraulic control box and solenoid
5) install dinky cylinder (controlled by solenoid) to pull pin and large cylinder (controlled by manual valve) to move blade

done - a cheap, highly practical and easy solution

:D :D

And as for the power of this bike, it's a Bombardier Outlander 650 Max XT 4WD. It is only bested by it's big brother the 800 and then only out of the hole. The 650 pulls up along side of it at top end. Plenty enough soup to push the 60" County style plow. If I could just figure out how to stay warm ! :D

Evan
11-07-2007, 07:57 PM
If I could just figure out how to stay warm !

Wait until you see what I am working on. :D

wmgeorge
11-07-2007, 09:00 PM
I don't know that I'd have a lot of confidence in the wiper motor thing but you gave me an idea for a small worm drive winch that I already have. It may be that I can just remove the pin entirely and use a dc motor driven winch with a cable loop of maybe 30" or so. In other words, the cable would be tight and capable of moving the blade left or right and hold it in relative position until the next time I hit the motor. As of now the selenoid idea is on hold to see if I might be able to come up with something better.
:D

Why not just some kind of 12 v worm screw actuator motor to move the blade at the angle you need? Surplus Center out in Nebraska usually stocks them. Even a 24 volt one would still work on 12 VDC.

Your Old Dog
11-07-2007, 10:03 PM
Wait until you see what I am working on. :D

I'm trying to think what the hell you could be making out of aluminum that might keeep one warm while plowing the driveway ! :D Oh to have a shop and live in a town where the streets are paved in aluminum !!


Why not just some kind of 12 v worm screw actuator motor to move the blade at the angle you need? Surplus Center out in Nebraska usually stocks them. Even a 24 volt one would still work on 12 VDC.

Bill I'm not familar with the kind of screw actuator motor assembly you are referring to. The winch I have in mind is about 4" square cube and would be fairly simple to mount and darn near any 12V motor would power it due to the extreme mechanical advantage. It also means I could bang into a snow bank and not damage the tilt mechanism.

sasquatch
11-07-2007, 10:12 PM
My son,s outlander 650 will "Pull Wheelies" in reverse also. Awesome machine, rides like a big old Caddy!:)

Ray in N. Ont.

Your Old Dog
11-07-2007, 10:19 PM
My son,s outlander 650 will "Pull Wheelies" in reverse also. Awesome machine, rides like a big old Caddy!:)

Ray in N. Ont.

Not many know about the ride but you're right! With the wife and I going out across the harvested corn fields it rides like my old Mercury Marquis used to at 35 mph!! To bad I can't funnel some of that exhaust heat up where I need it. These machines are noted for exhaust system hot enough to melt the body plastic. Most guys are doing the exhaust wrap to make it more comfortable.

The 650's come with a bypass switch on the handle bar. It's to keep you from going over the bars if you hit it too hard in reverse. I have an idea it may go as fast in reverse as it does forward. I've seen video of the 800 version doing a 100 foot wheely in reverse, didn't know the 650 would do it too. That's good to know for that special pucker factor at the bench races !!

Swarf&Sparks
11-08-2007, 07:41 AM
FWIW, the wiper motor/chain reduction has massive torque. Enough to snap a broomstick in the sprocket (don't ask, ok!)

I'm not familiar with snowploughs but I'm sure there would be enough power there to change the blade angle, as long as you're not trying to do it under load. And with the crown and worm, the motor is self locking.

Anyway, how you gonna change blade angle just with a powered lock?

speedsport
11-08-2007, 07:55 AM
Why don't you install heated grips, heated seat and get a heated vest?, your ATV should have enough electrical power to handle these accessories.

Swarf&Sparks
11-08-2007, 08:00 AM
Bugger that!
Sit by your fire with radio control and video link :D

Your Old Dog
11-08-2007, 08:23 AM
Anyway, how you gonna change blade angle just with a powered lock?

I would have released the lock and then nudged the corner of the blade into a snow bank, release the lock and keep nudging the blade till the lock engaged on the next in the series of holes. If I do the worm gear winch or even a harbor freight cheap 12V winch I don't have to worry about the lock setup.


Bugger that!
Sit by your fire with radio control and video link :D

If I lived next to David Coffer would :D If he resisted the request I'd throw his hound a big Prime Rib to soften him up!

edited to add:

Why don't you install heated grips, heated seat and get a heated vest?, your ATV should have enough electrical power to handle these accessories.

You mean kind of turn it into a pickup truck? :D

Swarf&Sparks
11-08-2007, 08:27 AM
Fair 'nuff YOD
I still like the radio/video idea though. Cold weather here kills me. Couldn't stand snow!

Your Old Dog
11-08-2007, 08:30 AM
Don't be too harsh on snow. Snow is the best excuse going for spending the day with a Brandy, comfortable slippers and a fireplace. I also enjoyed watching the kids outside when they were younger................shoveling the freaking drive ! :D :D

Swarf&Sparks
11-08-2007, 08:38 AM
Yeah, I've done my time in snow. Born in Scotland, came here (Oz) in 64, back for holiday in 82. Snow's pretty to look at, not much fun to drive in and hideous when it melts.
Cheers, Lin

Jim2
11-08-2007, 12:17 PM
If I could just figure out how to stay warm ! :D

Speedsport's got it right! You need an electric vest or jacket liner. If you're not familiar follow this link:

http://www.gerbing.com/heat/jl.html

I've got a Widder vest myself. The Gerbings' heated sleeves would be nice sometimes.

Jim