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JSGAuto
11-07-2007, 07:34 PM
Hi Everyone,

A motorcycle club I am a member of has asked me to make some replacement aluminum spacers. These are nothing fancy, about 2" long, 1.125" diamiter, .42" hole, and chamfered ends. They will be made out of T6.

What do you think is a fair price for this (my time mainly, I am not sure how to judge this)? I run a 9" southbend, full manual operation. This would be a small run of parts. Say 50pcs.

Thanks
Jim

John Stevenson
11-07-2007, 07:38 PM
1.20 each.

.

SGW
11-07-2007, 08:19 PM
How much ground does "nothing fancy" cover? What are the actual acceptable tolerances on length, hole diameter, concentricity, amount of chamfer?

On a 9" SB you can't get 1 1/4" through the spindle. How are you going to cut the blanks? Bandsaw? Power hacksaw? Hand hacksaw?

Think through all the steps you'll need to do, assign some times. (Then, if you're like me, double them to get a reasonable guess of the actual times.) Add 'em up.

Think about ways to "production run" it by using work stops, etc. For instance, put a stop in back of your chuck so you can slide in a blank to the stop, tighten the chuck, and face off one end of the blanks so they're all a fixed length. When they're all done on one end, advance the carriage enough to face off to final length, and repeat on the other end.

If "chamfer" is satisfied by "hit it with a file," do that at the same time. Otherwise, set up the compound at an angle and chamfer all the ends.

Drill all the holes. Countersink required? Do that. Reaming required for accuracy? Do that.

John's estimate of (about) $2.50 apiece is beginning to look pretty cheap.

tattoomike68
11-07-2007, 08:22 PM
About $3.00 a pair. its easy to make. Where I worked that not worth writing a ticket. A cash job. (the printed work order cost $1.00)

If you want to buy 1,000 I bet can find them for $.60 each or less.

motorworks
11-07-2007, 08:29 PM
I would charge 3.00 each Canadian or 2.50 us
(Canadian $$ is worth more:D)

JSGAuto
11-07-2007, 08:53 PM
The hole will just be drilled, that will suffice for tolerance.

The outside will have to hold some tolerance. Nothing insane, but the part will be lightly tapped into an aluminum housing (I guess this is better described as a bushing). I have to measure several of these housings to see what tolerance I have to play with.

Length tolerance of .01 will lilkely be fine.

Using a file to create the the chamfer on the outside and inside hole will be enough.

Rough cutting wise I have a couple ideas, buying a length that fits my lathe, or cutting with a recipicating saw. I don't have a band saw.

Thanks for the thoughts

torker
11-07-2007, 09:21 PM
You really have to be careful taking jobs like this with minimal equipment. Not meaning to sound like a wet moccasin but the lack of a small bandsaw is going to really complicate this job.
Believe me..I've been there.
You'll still do the job but you'll prolly end up trying a couple of different ideas to cut to length. For alu like that I've even used a (hand) woodsaw.
A sawzall will work but the blanks will vary in length unless you build a fixture so you can use the saw to cut them all as close as possible.
I've used a SB9 to make a ton of multiple parts. You will not make much money with that machine. I couldn't. The small spindle bore, the slow speeds and the shortstroke of the tailstock make production runs tough.
I'm betting when the job is done you'll find $3 each was not worth your while.
Yes...You will make a few bucks but the $/hr might make you rethink these ideas.
Lol...but then I remember...when we first start this sport we really are brutes for punishment.
Good Luck and have patience!
Russ

lazlo
11-07-2007, 09:32 PM
I would charge 3.00 each Canadian or 2.50 us
(Canadian $$ is worth more:D)

I know, doesn't that suck! :) I want to buy some stuff from John/Gert, but the friggin' exchange rate is so bad...

Maybe the US should start using Euros :D

tony ennis
11-07-2007, 09:39 PM
If the Brits won't use them, I sure won't!

ProGunOne
11-07-2007, 10:19 PM
Maybe the US should start using Euros

Close-but they'll probably be called Ameros?

7018
11-07-2007, 10:33 PM
I think that if-n I was you I'd try and make enough to buy a 4x6 BandSaw out of that job...:D

abn
11-08-2007, 02:32 AM
I do aluminum cutoff on a woodworking miter saw with a cheap import carbide blade or my Harbor Freight 10" tile saw (wet) with a cheap carbide blade...not what you asked but something you may already have to speed the process. Noisy as hell though.

DR
11-08-2007, 06:07 AM
If you bought the material at online metals, each 2" section would be $1.06 not accounting for cutting losses. With markup that'd be $1.50 each for material.

By the time you fool around cutting them to length, facing ends, drilling, chamfering, etc you'll be a few minutes into each piece.

Considering the equipment available it'll be an all day job to do 50 pieces. Assuming this is not charity work, $5.00 each.

Swarf&Sparks
11-08-2007, 06:30 AM
I've cut a lot of aluminium (including 1" plate) with my mitre saw.
Just be real careful with clamping arrangements when cutting round bar. It can get very untidy in less than a blink!

Allan Waterfall
11-08-2007, 06:41 AM
Anyone can work for nothing and someone will always let you.If they quible about the price,tell them to buy a lathe and make their own.

Allan

DR
11-08-2007, 06:51 AM
If you bought the material at online metals, each 2" section would be $1.06 not accounting for cutting losses. With markup that'd be $1.50 each for material.

By the time you fool around cutting them to length, facing ends, drilling, chamfering, etc you'll be a few minutes into each piece.

Considering the equipment available it'll be an all day job to do 50 pieces. Assuming this is not charity work, $5.00 each.


On edit, I just re-read the thread......if the outside has to be turned double or more my original suggestion.

On the 9" SB how do you intend to do the OD turning?

Rusty Marlin
11-08-2007, 12:37 PM
Another thing to note is what type of tool post you have. You will eat up a lot of time if you have to switch out and set tools ina lantern post vs a 4 way or a quick change.

Turning the OD is going to be a sticky spot as you can't get the bar through the headstock.
I think your best option would be to cut off a long enough peice to get 4 or 6 (6 would be a touch long, but not too horrible.) parts plus room for a dog and turn down between centers. That means a 3 jaw and a steady to get your centers cut in, then change over to centers and turn the OD on all the shorts.

Then cut off all the 2" slugs. Put in a 4 jaw so you can dial the OD in, and face, drill and chamfer from one end. Depending on runout tolerance for ID/OD you may have to bore the hole. 5x deep, with a small tool; that'll be a cute trick.
Flip, dial in, face and chamfer the other end.

Does the "as extruded" 1.125 bar come in the tolerance needed for the job, or can you get it ground before delivery?

If you buy the material from ENCO you can get the shipping free. 72" of 1.125 is $38+ and you'll need two bars.

Anything less than 6.50 a peice and you're getting hosed. 1.50 for averaged material and an average of 8 minutes apiece at $40 an hour. (6.3 hours to make 50 parts) Personally I think that's a little light for hours.
Better charge $8 to $10 each. If he tells you to pound sand, you're probably better off.

tryp
11-08-2007, 01:37 PM
The first thing I would find out is: What do these things cost when you buy them from the parts store?

Bushings are usually cheap, but sometimes I get suprised by the dealer markup.

Ries
11-08-2007, 02:01 PM
I think you should charge in a different currency- say, one small horizontal/vertical cutoff 4x6 bandsaw.
Payable in advance, of course.

John Stevenson
11-08-2007, 02:58 PM
I think you are reading more into this than there is.
1-1/8 dia, 2" long, chamfered with 0.420" hole.

Cut bar to +10" with hacksaw, stick in chuck, clean up OD with scotchbrite, centre one end and with the parting tool go along and take a dig every 2", swap tool for a vee tool and chamfer both sides of the cut. Hold bar as close to chuck and part off 1 piece at +2"
Rechuck and part off 4 more at initial groove

Do this 10 times.

Then you have 10 start and end pieces to face to a dead 2" and all need to be drilled.

I reckon an hour and ten to twenty minutes tops.

.

hitnmiss
11-08-2007, 03:58 PM
Quote $8 per and sub it out to John Stevenson!

1Kenny
11-09-2007, 12:31 AM
$21.00 USD each polished.

torker
11-09-2007, 08:51 AM
John...a little over 1 1/2 minutes per piece...on a SB9? Maybe you (fastest machinist in the West)could do it but nobody else here could.

IOWOLF
11-09-2007, 10:22 AM
It doesn't matter what you charge someone will bitch about the price.

thistle
11-09-2007, 11:53 AM
It doesn't matter what you charge someone will bitch about the price.

YEP

SO
charge for 3 days at 75 an hour - 36 say 40 bucks a pop

what dont like that price? they are made from BILLET .

JSGAuto
11-12-2007, 09:21 AM
Thank you everyone for the replies.

I now have a greater understanding of time/cost!

I suppose my next purchase will be a band saw!



Thanks!
Jim

ARFF79
11-14-2007, 12:46 AM
No matter how many tools you own for your own pleasure, once you start to take in paying jobs, you will find that you never have the right tool for that job. The SB9 is a great lathe for the home hobbiest and for Jr/Sr High School shop classes to introduce basic lathe work to kids who could care less these days. Now you see that you should buy a band saw. Next on my list would be a lathe upgrade to at least a 13x36 or 40 " with a 1.5" spindle bore. I have been there and done that. My first lathe was an Atlas 6"x18" ordered from them in 1980. It was soon followed by a Brown & Sharpe turret lathe, a Harrison M-300 and so on and so on, to the point of a threat of divorce, if any more came in to the garage without both another one leaving and it paying for its self before a year went by. The tally currently stands at 4 lathes, 5 mills (one CNC), 2 saws,3 welders, 1 grinder and numerous drill presses and support tooling. Oh yeah, and a 5k fork truck too. All because I did some side jobs for my boss once.