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View Full Version : Had a visit from Mickey Mouse today



cybor462
11-11-2007, 12:20 AM
Yep, I hate when he comes by.....You may have read the thread on my paint booth. I have a good bit of it done. Built the booth and got a fan from Grainger. Had a motor but it was no good so I had to buy one. I now am way over budget on this thing.
I was forced to start a "Thats good enough" campaign which I really do not like so I started to "Use what I got". This means you get very creative and use what you got lying around and TRY to make it work for you.

I found that mounting the new motor out of the air stream was no longer possible as I can't get a belt long enough. Remember I am doing this on the cheap now so no more spending on this. I could make an intermediate shaft and use 2 belts but that would mean buying bearings and making a shaft and then buy more pulleys.

So I am back to that is good enough. I will be putting the motor on a mount on the fan bracket (not the way I wanted to do it) I then had to decide how I was going to make the filter brackets.

This is where Mickey stopped by. There is a number of things I did not plan on.
1. The fan I was told by Grainger was clockwise rotation but it ended up CCW. I had to turn the blade around which messed me up because it was too far into the booth now. I originally planned on using metal brackets to build my filter mount but now the blades are in way too far for that. I asked Mickey how he would do it so I used wood.
I have plenty of scraps of wood around so I used these (not pleased) but mickey said Go for it!
The more I worked the more Mickey had a hand in this. Every turn I was forced to "Make it work" Had to use 2x4 2x6 2x8 to make the mount as I did not have enough of any one size. Makes me shutter to look at it.
Looks like heck, maybe a 5th grader could do it better but it may work.

I still have to hook up the motor and wire it. I will try to get a few pics tomorrow. or not as I am kinda embarrassed at the end result.

Not quite sure how it will work but if nothing else most will ask me "What the hell is that"? It will be a topic of extreme laughter for many.

Just curious how many of you guys have run into Mickey when doing a job. I hope I am not the only one.

Frank Ford
11-11-2007, 12:26 AM
He shows up so often in my shop that I finally, and I swear I'm not making this up, had a name badge made for myself. At a convention of professionals in my craft I turned up as a lecture/demo technique presenter wearing the name, "Mr. Good-Enough-Wrench" engraved with silver letters on a nice black badge.

All in all, I think I like the name and the concept. Perfection is crafted from unobtanium, so I'm fine with goodnuff. Now, of course, I get to define exactly what that means. Only fair, since it ain't perfect. . .

brucepts
11-11-2007, 12:37 AM
Klem,

One trip to Paul B's in Ephrata would have been one stop shopping for all the parts you would have needed for that project.

Those farmers know/sell what the other farmers need :)

Klem, next time you stop over I'll take you to Paul B's and show you around, the counter guys know me by first name . . .

J. R. Williams
11-11-2007, 12:39 AM
Cybor
Turning the blade around does not change things. Changing the motor rotation is necessary

JRW

wierdscience
11-11-2007, 12:43 AM
If it works and does the job it doesn't matter what it looks like.I take it your in this paint booth building kick because it will make or help you make money?If that's the case making money is the objective and not opening a museum.

I know it's aggrevating not being able to make every detail absolutly perfect or even as you invisioned,but sometimes that's a good thing.

Have I built things out of wood?You bet,have wire ties been used in creative places?Yes to get the job done,you can refine things later.

cybor462
11-11-2007, 12:46 AM
Cybor
Turning the blade around does not change things. Changing the motor rotation is necessary

JRW

The blade is cupped one direction only so to get the maximum cfm I had to turn the blade around. If I would have just reversed the motor rotation (I would rather have done this) I would have lost 50% of the cfm air movement. It would have caused more cavitation than clean air movement. It would have been very inefficient. With the blades going the direction that they are intended to go moves the air because the blades are cupped.
I hope I explained this correctly.

cybor462
11-11-2007, 12:51 AM
If it works and does the job it doesn't matter what it looks like.I take it your in this paint booth building kick because it will make or help you make money?If that's the case making money is the objective and not opening a museum.



Yes, I have tried many ways to finish the tools I sell and spraying them is the only way to do it that does a decent job. I tried dip painting (did not work) blackening (final dip left oily finish)
I have been spraying them and the overspray got to be too much. This booth will allow me to contain the dust. I did however want to also powdercoat in this booth but with the fan motor in the air stream I would not dare to do it until I could get an explosion proof motor. They cost boku bucks so I guess I will wait on that.

cybor462
11-11-2007, 01:11 AM
Klem,

One trip to Paul B's in Ephrata would have been one stop shopping for all the parts you would have needed for that project.

Those farmers know/sell what the other farmers need :)

Klem, next time you stop over I'll take you to Paul B's and show you around, the counter guys know me by first name . . .

I did not have a problem finding the needed items just buying them was the problem. If I wanted to spend a small fortune I would have had a real nice looking booth and maybe a real efficient one too. I never thought it would end up costing what it did. A few troubles like needing to buy a motor was a big breaker. I had my old HF saw motor that I hoped I could replace the burned melted plastic fan. When I looked at it the whole thing is fried so I was forced to buy a new motor.

The fan was a little more than I wanted to spend but it ended up being a real massive thing that will last for years.

Just ran out of cash. I am leaving next week for my son's graduation from basic and after 2 itinerary changes, cost me all but 2500.00 for the trip that was suppose to cost 1500.00. The Air Force with all their wisdom changed the grad. ceremonies last week after I already booked everything. I had to then change the day I would leave here to go to Texas which cost me $160 in fees just to change the departure day plus additional cost for the tickets and an extra hotel stay as well as a fee for that and car rental just to make the change.

A few days later my son calls and tells me his departure day for tech school which is right after graduation was moved back a couple days so now he wants me to stay a couple days longer as he had no where to be. So again I had to change departure dates and added more hotel days and car rental and again pay more fees to them to make the change.

All that unexpected money outlay put a hurting on me with no notary work. So I was forced to shut down shop buying.

kendall
11-11-2007, 01:41 AM
Unless it's a paying job, good enough is good enough, if it does the job without creating problems it's great.

Using what you have, well I'm scottish, and I'm a sailer, and both are known to be, well, I'll say frugal, so to me it's just common sense!
Can't see buying something when I have a perfectly acceptable substitute sitting in the shop.

I've often used scrap wood to build things, and have had them turn out very nicely.

One thing I do when I don't have enough of any one type of wood, is to rip it down to a consistant size for appearance,and ease of measurement then use that to frame it out and use plywood to face it for the strength.

I'm in carpentry, so I always have scraps of both thick and thin plywood, a 1x1 frame sheathed in 1/4 ply is surprisingly strong, and the best part is that it looks like you planned it that way from the start.

ouch on the extra outlay, had that experience with my brother in the navy, so many date/time changes it was crazy.

Ken.

wierdscience
11-11-2007, 01:57 AM
Yes, I have tried many ways to finish the tools I sell and spraying them is the only way to do it that does a decent job. I tried dip painting (did not work) blackening (final dip left oily finish)
I have been spraying them and the overspray got to be too much. This booth will allow me to contain the dust. I did however want to also powdercoat in this booth but with the fan motor in the air stream I would not dare to do it until I could get an explosion proof motor. They cost boku bucks so I guess I will wait on that.

Understood,I worked for a small company once that manufactured a machine with a welded frame.When I got there they were painting them outside on a good day with rattle cans and spending huge amounts of time preping the finish by hand before painting.When I left they had a simple paint booth and the finishing was done by sandblasting.The end result was a %100 improvement in quaity and a reduction of 2/3s or better in time spent finishing.The paint booth was nothing more than a plywood booth with a belt drive squirrel cage fan and a stack of furnace filters but it worked well.

On the subject of explosion proof motors,understand that "explosion proof" means the motor won't turn into schrapnel when it blows,not that it will prevent an explosion from happening.To do that you need a "hazardous location"motor where the case is hermetically sealed.

Planning ahead a regulation paintbooth fan/motor assembly could be picked up on ebay after some regular looking,just a thought.

Fasttrack
11-11-2007, 02:36 AM
Hey don't feel bad -

I have yet to make something that i was really pleased with the quality apart from two go-karts but those didnt require that much machining.

I'm still waiting to develop the skills to make all the awsome things i see on here; until then all of my machine projects end up mickey mouse by the end.

Paul Alciatore
11-11-2007, 03:01 AM
Don't feel bad about improvising. I just finished a tool holder that is completely improvised. I needed something to hold a diamond truing tool on my lathe bed for truing the stones used on a tool post grinder. I didn't want to spend much. What I came up with looks like a crazy Rube Goldberg thing, but I think it will work. I will be testing it tomorrow.

I wanted an adjustable height post that mounted on the ways. Can't use the cross slide/compound because the tool post grinder will be there. Of course it needs to be solid. And minimun cost and effort. I bought a 1" galvanized pipe union, a 6" long nipple, a 7/16" X 8" bolt, and a couple of larger nuts. I used two of the parts of the union with some turning to true them up to provide an adjustable height section (the threads normally used to tighten the union together). The clamp and 7/16" nut from the tailstock are used to hold it down. A 3/4" X 2" X 6" steel spacer from my milling table for the lathe has a 7/16' hole drilled in it and it serves as a base that spans the ways. The reworked union sits on that and a short piece of the pipe nipple completes the vertical column. A shop made boring bar holder with 3/8" and 1/2" holes for tools sits on top of the column and holds the diamond tool in a horizontal position. The union threads provide about 0.35" of vertical adjustment: more than enough to position the diamond tool where I need it. For more range, I could add some 1" washers on top of the pipe nipple. Oh, the larger nuts, 3/4" I think, are for spacers since I needed a 7" bolt but the local stores had 6" and 8", but no 7".

Looks like heck but is solid as a rock. Total cost under $10 and a couple hours of work. And it is "good enough".

I make no apologies.

John Stevenson
11-11-2007, 06:29 AM
Commercial rules No's 35 to 37


#35 Make the part or job.

#36 Refine it until right.

#37 THEN make the drawing.................

.

cybor462
11-11-2007, 10:39 PM
Here are some pics. It is done and it sucks! I mean it really sucks! Really, it started sucking stuff in the door that was lying on the floor papers, wood chips what a trip.
Here are some pics
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cybor462/booth.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cybor462/filter.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cybor462/parts.jpg

Tried it out, sprayed those parts and it sucked all the dust and promoted quick drying. They look better than what they looked like just shooting them in the shop.

I first ran it with 1 filter in place. There was spray dust on the fan blades. I added a second filter and now there is no dust on the blades.
Anyone have a suggestions on a filter I can use that will trap the dust? I guess I can go with these but I fear they will clog quickly or just let the dust thru.

Picked the right pulleys. I have it running 700 rpm's. It is like a turbine, revs up and draws everything in. I tried using a curtain on the door and it sucked it right in. I have to watch out that I spray to the left side of the booth or it just sucks all the paint into the filter.

Wow may look like heck but it sure works!;)

matador
11-12-2007, 01:06 AM
"how many of you guys have run into Mickey when doing a job"
He's a close personal friend of mine:D:D.
Hell,I wish I could bodge something as nice as that.Well done,Klem.Give yourself a big cigar.

torker
11-12-2007, 01:25 AM
Well klem, I just like that! I'm soon to do what you're doing. And as Darin mentioned...need a sandblasting outfit to speed up the prep on the stuff I build.
And who cares how it looks if it does the job. When building shop equipment we can't always get the perfection we'd like. I like to have everything the customer can see looking at least sort of professional but what they can't see won't hurt them :D
BTW...I use a turbine HVLP outfit for painting. It uses expensive foam filters that quickly clog up with paint. I used pieces of old bed sheets as "pre filters" and it probably quadruples the filter life.
Russ

cybor462
11-12-2007, 11:06 AM
Thanks guys...it really does work.
I am the only one that will see it so other than reminding myself I should not do carpentry for a living it has exceeded my expectations on end result and I guess that is what it is about. :cool:

andy_b
11-12-2007, 03:10 PM
Thanks guys...it really does work.
I am the only one that will see it so other than reminding myself I should not do carpentry for a living it has exceeded my expectations on end result and I guess that is what it is about. :cool:

maybe you posted the wrong photos, but what i see, looks to be a dang fine job! we are always our own worst critics. :)
as for you fear of explosions and what not, i've done a lot of painting and dust-making in my time, and i've never had an explosion. when i used to work with a friend restoring old VWs, we had a wall-mounted ventless propane heater. when we had to paint inside in the winter we'd turn the heater down so only one or two of the five bars was lit, and spray away. we also used to put a fan in the window to suck the overspray out. is was a big old fan with the motor bolted to the back of it (sort of like yours). in fact, when adjusting the airflow of the paint gun, we'd spray it right into the fan. in my garage i have an oil heater (the "mobile home" type). i've already been painting and sanding with the heater running, and me and my garage are still here. this summer i'll have to do an experiment where i spray paint right into a running motor and see what happens. i can't recommend any course of action for you, but if i had a spray booth that looked like yours, with those filters and that big fan moving air, i would spray whatever i wanted inside of the booth.

andy b.

cybor462
11-12-2007, 07:06 PM
I am only really worried about powder coating. I am told that dust is very explosive. Painting I am not afraid of as I have a torpedo heater in that part of the shop (will be getting a mobile home furnace like yours next year) and if there is anything more of an open flame that is it. It does burn the fumes but does not explode. Powder coat dust on the other hand I would not dare to try it.

Your right, the fan does the job.

Thanks for the kind words. Remember one thing a picture does not always tell the whole story. I built this thing out in the driveway. As I later found out, the driveway is far from level in any place. :o
When I built the base for the booth it kinda got the twist from the uneven driveway which followed the job to the end. Other than that and the scabbing of wood it is not that bad. Not something I would bring to show and tell but to get paint all over it, fits like a glove. ;)

John Stevenson
11-12-2007, 07:27 PM
Klem,

Looks OK to me. I know you have built this now but local firm to me have these booths that they do power coating and what they have is the filters mounted horizontal at the rear about 2/3rds the way up and the fan on top with a top exhaust.

In the booth itself there is a small gap along the bottom, about 6" high where it pulls the air thru and in this gap is a water tray about 3" deep with a plate on top at the 6" level so the air gets pulled along the top of the tray before it can enter the filter chamber.

This acts as a baffle and the air has to go over the whole of the ray, round the baffle plate and thru the filters.

The dust being heavier settles in the tray on it's way thru. they emply these weekly and it's like sludge so it's doing its work.

cybor462
11-12-2007, 10:25 PM
Thanks John... I put the fan near the bottom as we had a discussion hear and many said the way to do it is to have the fan draw to the bottom to pull everything down. I wish a had a smoke bomb I could set off and run the booth and I would post the pic as it draws everything away from the parts and thru the filters. It does work.
As you can tell this is just a half witt booth but it works for me as I do not do loads of painting or powder coating. It is much better than what I had.

I am sure I could have built a Cadillac but I am just a Chevette kind of guy. :o