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oldtiffie
02-16-2008, 02:24 AM
There has been a lot of discussions over time regarding the use, need and cost of a sine bar and the seeming need for a 81-piece set of NIST certified "slip guages" (aka "jo blocks").

Some have them and use them, others have them and don't user them (much) and other either don't need them, can't afford them, have never used them or would like to make or try one.

This post is directed to those that would like to make one and try it.

I've had this in mind for a while but a couple of recent "accuracy"-related threads got me going with it.

I knocked out the following very rough "sketch"? ("mud-map"?) that is at the end of this post in about 10 minutes at the Kitchen table.

It might surprise you how accurate it can be - certainly to within +/- 3 to 5 arc minutes which is as good a most rotary table, dividing head and protractors (vernier and digital).

I have not specified any material. What-ever is handy will do - I'd suggest aluminium - for the Sine Bar (SB) body.

Other than where I have put a tolerance the sizes and shapes are what-ever suits you. Of course the nearer you are to size the better.

Finish is not all that important either - just do as well as you can.

The tolerances should be readily achievable in a small HSM shop with a small mill or "3-in-1" machine.

I have deliberately used 3 precision steel balls instead of the traditional bars/rods as it will cancel out the need for high accuracy in the bars being parallel to each other, plus 3 "legs" are inherently stable and will not "rock" as would be the if bars were used and were not parallel.

The "super" magnets use magnetic force to attract them to the balls. They are recessed into the SB body and fixed with a suitable adhesive (normal "Building/Construction" or others at a hardware store) will do.

The sizing of the "guage block" is given in a small sketch at mid left. The height of the "guage block" required is 5 x Sine of the angle required.

The block is placed under the single ball - the other 2 balls rest on the table.

The "guage block" for the angle you need can be made from anything handy and suitable in your shop but should be no more than 0.001" from the height required. A bolt/screw in a nut will do - but use a lock nut. I'd suggest facing off the "guage" ends to size and parallel in your lathe.

I've put a lot of "to suit" stuff/sizes on the sketch. They are of no real importance so you can please yourself.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/DIY_Sine-bar.jpg

Forrest Addy
02-16-2008, 03:12 AM
The sine bar shown above is an excellent expedient and will within the accuracy to which it was made deternine angles into arc second country.

Many times I've pushed dowel pins through the holes in 1-2-3 blocks and after recording some measurements used the block as a sine bar. Same goes with a handy piece of rectangular cold rolled steel with a couple of holes drilled and reamed for dowel pins or some steps milled in the edge as is traditional.

There is no real need in these days of omnipresent trig capable calculators for the pin centers to be dead nuts on a nominal dimeension - or even super parallel to the reference face. If you know the errors present you can mathematically compensate for them.

So the message here is that a sine bar doesn't have to be a glistening work of the toolmaker's art. With some as-built measurements and a little shop math you can use something quick and dirty to obtain surprisingly accurate results.

Chances are the home shop machinist will never have a need for a sine bar in his tooling inventory but should the need arise Oldtiffle's sketch should be kept in mind. Print it out and put it into the looseleaf notebook you keep on your library shelf next to "Machinery's Handbook" and other references.

oldtiffie
02-16-2008, 05:29 AM
Thanks Forrest.

As it pleases you it sure does please me - and with a big sigh of relief.

I have got to "Revision 1" already.

I suggested the body be aluminium so that it had no magnetic qualities (or distractions) as I guess you knew. I just did not want to prescribe it in case some-one with something else would feel that he couldn't do it.

I had second thoughts about the fixing of the magnets and so I revised the sketch to include a set-screw (with the contact end "squared off") and lock-nut in a counter-bored hole or "ledge"/bevel.

Any effective other alternative that the maker chooses to use is OK.

I just wanted to define the under-lying principles and let the maker do as he liked to suit himself with everything else. A job with "you" in it is something to show (off?) to others - particularly with a good aluminium finish and the shiny steel balls that works and is of use.

I deliberately did it a "rough" sketch that might be done in the shop. I did not want it to be an intimidating CAD or other formal drawing.

You are quite correct as regards the accuracy (or lack of it) in the centre-distance between the two ball axes. That figure can be substituted for the (now nominal?) 5" C/C distance and use a calculator.

My usual method (as 5 = 10/2) is to use trig tables, shift the decimal point right by one postion (multiply by 10) and then divide by 2 (10/2 = 5).

I thought it was about time that there was a project for a HSM-er by a HSM-er that would be of use, is not too difficult and uses a lot of machine skill.

I did think of machining a 60 or 90 degree "V" along the back/top face centre-line as a sort of "V" block to locate anything cylindrical.

I have included three pics:
- the revised sketch (coloured);
- 2 of the general principles and applications of a sine bar.

You might recall the latter 2 as I withdrew them after Marv Klotz's protractor used as or in lieu a sine bar was "trashed" and "rubbished" badly by some. I was really "pi**ed off" at that and perhaps said some things that I shouldn't have.

Anyway.

Many thanks for your kind comments as they are very appreciated as I, as do many others, hold your skills and opinion in very high regard.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/DIY_Sine-bar_Rev1.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Sine-bar_setting1.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Sine-bar_setting2.jpg

J Tiers
02-16-2008, 10:47 AM
While we are on alternatives.......

If you are one of the great unwashed who don't have gage blocks, (which I would also be if I hadn't lucked into some).....

If you own a micrometer, and you obtain a couple sizes of adjustable parallels, you have "instant gage blocks"...... any size you want, to any practical accuracy you care to adjust for (within the basic flatness, etc of the parallel).

Sounds like a good match to the sine bar above.

BobWarfield
02-16-2008, 11:49 AM
While we are on alternatives.......

If you are one of the great unwashed who don't have gage blocks, (which I would also be if I hadn't lucked into some).....

If you own a micrometer, and you obtain a couple sizes of adjustable parallels, you have "instant gage blocks"...... any size you want, to any practical accuracy you care to adjust for (within the basic flatness, etc of the parallel).

Sounds like a good match to the sine bar above.

Second time I've heard this trick (probably the first was also you JTiers).

I like it!

Oldtiffie, can't wait to see your build photos. Looks like a fun project.

For those who may want a little inspiration in the department of what to do with a sine bar, I present one of Widgitmaster's (regular CNCZone contributor) many fine setups, this time with a sine bar:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Widgit/Widget0856.JPG

He's making the support arm for a CNC gantry router.

Cheers,

BW

torker
02-16-2008, 12:29 PM
Guys...this is a great thread! I've never used a sine bar and always wondered how you used them in different applications.
Tiffie...the drawings etc. explain a lot.
Bob... nice example of how to use these.
Anyone else have any more pics of different setups?
Thanks!
Russ

LES A W HARRIS
02-16-2008, 03:31 PM
Old Tiffie,

Nice unit, You have there. Here's a 5.000" single or compound version, very useful on the inspection side (light), tricky to use on a machine, but I have done some strange one offs with it over the years.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/2008%20GENERAL/PANA3203.jpg


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/2008%20GENERAL/PANA3201.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/2008%20GENERAL/PANA3202.jpg

oldtiffie
02-16-2008, 09:21 PM
While we are on alternatives.......

If you are one of the great unwashed who don't have gage blocks, (which I would also be if I hadn't lucked into some).....

If you own a micrometer, and you obtain a couple sizes of adjustable parallels, you have "instant gage blocks"...... any size you want, to any practical accuracy you care to adjust for (within the basic flatness, etc of the parallel).

Sounds like a good match to the sine bar above.

Thanks JT - right on as usual.

Items referred to by JT are at:
http://cdcotools.com/item.php?itemid=14

US$35 might seem a bit steep but they are a good tool to have.

There are other sites including Littlemachineshop.com and eBay of course.

I have a set and they get a lot of work. They are ideal as proxies for slip guages in the right setting.

They are "Chinese" - of course - and a I had a minor "easing" job to do but they now slide beautifully and are surprisingly accurate.

I find them very handy indeed for measuring gaps and slots etc. Once you have the "feel" for them they are very accurate - +/- 0.0005" is not out of the question and +/- 0.001" is relatively easy.

oldtiffie
02-16-2008, 09:33 PM
Old Tiffie,

Nice unit, You have there. Here's a 5.000" single or compound version, very useful on the inspection side (light), tricky to use on a machine, but I have done some strange one offs with it over the years.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/2008%20GENERAL/PANA3203.jpg


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/2008%20GENERAL/PANA3201.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/2008%20GENERAL/PANA3202.jpg

Thanks Les.

A very nice variation on a theme - very nice indeed.

And a brilliant application of the sine bar principle in a compound angle application with the "three ball" set-up - using 3 different height guages/blocks - which you sure can't do with a conventional sine bar with rollers.

That set-up effectively cancels out the use of a second conventional sine bar mounted on the first.

Put that 3-ball sine bar tool of yours on a rotary table and you can do magic things with it - just get the required surface "flat" with a TDI and read-off the blocks/guages (1 to 3 as required) on the sine bar and the rotation of the rotab.

oldtiffie
02-16-2008, 09:46 PM
Second time I've heard this trick (probably the first was also you JTiers).

I like it!

Oldtiffie, can't wait to see your build photos. Looks like a fun project.

For those who may want a little inspiration in the department of what to do with a sine bar, I present one of Widgitmaster's (regular CNCZone contributor) many fine setups, this time with a sine bar:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Widgit/Widget0856.JPG

He's making the support arm for a CNC gantry router.

Cheers,

BW

Thanks Bob.

I won't be making it any time soon as I have a fairly complete kit in that regard.

I only sketched it in case some one wanted to either know how one was used or to make one in a HSM shop.

I actually had it in mind to use it in an angle-plate set-up for compound angles similar to Les Harris's set-up. I would have drilled and tapped the top of the angle plate in a similar manner to a 1-2-3 or 3-4-5 etc. block for obvious reasons. I've seen a lot of odd angles and faces on computer modeling screens which the designer approved without any regard as to how the machinist is going to or can make it.

I really did like that set-up you showed using a sine bar and 2-3-4 (or what-ever) blocks and good clamping. The set-up of the sine-bar (to be removed prior to machining?) will soon tell if the set-up has moved under clamping.

I might have at least considered doing the jog on a rotary table - but I can see that it would take a good-sized rotab to incorporate the clamping.

This is a truly great thread - particularly with posts like yours - and hopefully more coming!!

HTRN
02-16-2008, 10:31 PM
US$35 might seem a bit steep but they are a good tool to have.

That made me giggle. Go see what a Starrett set costs - $175 for a set of six.

And oh, one of the most useful gizmos I've come across for Sinebars is this gizmo (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=4766196&PMT4NO=37966071) - admittedly it's overpriced, but it's easy enough to make with a surface grinder. Let's face it, most of the time, we're using angles that are common - 45, 30, 15, 22.5, etc.


HTRN

tony ennis
02-16-2008, 11:03 PM
This is a great thread.

jimsehr
02-16-2008, 11:28 PM
The tool I made for cutting tapers has two .5 holes 5 inchs apart to set
taper . Like a cheap sine plate built in. In pic the two holes are used to swivle on a 5 inch arc to set angle.
jims





http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k106/jims_03/IMG_0003-9.jpg

wierdscience
02-16-2008, 11:49 PM
Good post Tiffie,I made a simple sine bar a long time ago,it was just a section of cold rolled square with two 3/4" dia. half round notches milled in the sides at 5"C-C and the corners trimmed off.Worked good for everything I used it for.It went missing a couple years ago and I was just about to plunk down some cash and buy new when I checked ebay.Found them in droves cheap.I landed a 5" and a 10" NIB made in Japan for $18 and shipping,yes I was that lucky:)

HTRN,never noticed those blocks before,one of those is diffinately on the to do list.

oldtiffie
02-17-2008, 12:08 AM
That made me giggle. Go see what a Starrett set costs - $175 for a set of six.

And oh, one of the most useful gizmos I've come across for Sinebars is this gizmo (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=4766196&PMT4NO=37966071) - admittedly it's overpriced, but it's easy enough to make with a surface grinder. Let's face it, most of the time, we're using angles that are common - 45, 30, 15, 22.5, etc.


HTRN

Thanks HTRN.

I won't "rubbish" "Starret" as is was (and hopefully still is) one of the world's "gold standard" makers of machine tools - MituToyo, Brown(e?) and Sharp and several UK (Moore and Wright etc.) and European names are similar.

But I can say that the "Starret equivalent" that I've bought in the US are as good as Starret for my purposes.

That "gismo" is a marvelous idea. First I've seen it - it is so damned obvious when I saw it - a set of spacer blocks all in one tool. But a set of spacer blocks made in the HSM shop will do the job too - +/- 0.001" or better will do for most HSM jobs and that tolerance is quite achievable.

Charlie Rose
02-17-2008, 02:19 AM
I have a real nice 10" sine bar that I made 30+ years ago 10" so you didn't need to spend a lot of time figuring what size JO blocks to use,you know just move the decimal in the sine table by the angle you need. What I was getting at is in all those years I can count on my fingers the number of times I have really needed it and have fingers left over. There are too many "field expedient"ways of getting where you want to go.

andy_b
02-17-2008, 08:39 PM
i understand the concept of what you guys are posting, but just to be sure, you don't actually clamp the work to the sine bar, right? you are just using it for setup?

thanks,

andy b.

alanganes
02-17-2008, 10:03 PM
Great thread. And while we are discussing sine bars and such, I thought someone should mention the method described by Marv Klotz. If you go to his website and grab the little utility called "SINE.ZIP" it describes a clever way to make accurate angles using two cylinders joined by a link, and provides a small program that does all the math for you. Quoted from his description:

"A simple and accurate way to make sine bars for machining precise angles is to use two cylinders of unequal diameter held at a fixed distance. This program provides all the machinery to make the needed computations and estimate the error in the resulting angle. A second program removes the need for making the separating link in favor of an approach that uses two butted cylinders of differing diameters."

I have used this method a number of times. Quick, handy and works great!
(THANKS MARV!!)

Al A.

gerritv
10-05-2016, 12:10 PM
Reviving this from the distant past. Can you please repost the photos/drawings of your sine bar implementation? I tried visualizing from the description but didn't get to a solution.

Thanks

BCRider
10-05-2016, 03:15 PM
And if anyone knows what HTRN's "gizmo" referred to that would be nice too. The link is to some long dead product and MSC's website comes back with a 404 error.

George Bulliss
10-05-2016, 03:27 PM
And if anyone knows what HTRN's "gizmo" referred to that would be nice too. The link is to some long dead product and MSC's website comes back with a 404 error.

Don't know for certain, but I'd guess it's one of those "stair step" looking blocks, with the step heights equaling the height required for setting standard angles on a 5" sine bar. I've seen them before, along with shop made versions.

old mart
10-05-2016, 03:39 PM
I did a quick calculation, and found that a 5" sine bar which was 0.01" too long would only have an error of 0.0202 degrees with a nominal 10 degrees angle.

BCRider
10-05-2016, 03:57 PM
Don't know for certain, but I'd guess it's one of those "stair step" looking blocks, with the step heights equaling the height required for setting standard angles on a 5" sine bar. I've seen them before, along with shop made versions.

That's what came to mind for me too. But the word "gizmo" opens up a lot of other options... :D

Lew Hartswick
10-05-2016, 05:48 PM
This is a great thread.
It's CRAPPY thread because half of the picture are no longer there. A result of not having them on this site. :-(
...lew...

oldtiffie
10-06-2016, 01:41 AM
The reason the pics of mine referred to as regards the "shop made" sine bar are no longer here - or in existence so far as I am aware - is that there was so much adverse comment regarding some/most/many pics that I posted that I just "called it quits" and removed them from PhotoBucket and my computer.

Too many of the adverse comments were directed to/at me personally and I wanted to remove that post and pics and some others so as to avoid the "pile on" and to get things "back to topic".

I thought that some one else may have stored those "sine bar" pics away - but it seems not thus far.

Sorry.

(Edit).

I had another (better) "close(er?) look" - and lo and behold:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Sine_bar/Buttons1.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/Sine_bar/Buttons1.jpg.html)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Sine_bar/DIY_Sine-bar.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/Sine_bar/DIY_Sine-bar.jpg.html)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Sine_bar/DIY_Sine-bar_Rev1.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/Sine_bar/DIY_Sine-bar_Rev1.jpg.html)

oldtiffie
10-06-2016, 01:57 AM
And:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Sine_bar/DIY_Sine-bar_Rev1.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/Sine_bar/DIY_Sine-bar_Rev1.jpg.html)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Sine_bar/Sine-bar_setting2.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/Sine_bar/Sine-bar_setting2.jpg.html)

I hope it helps.

Paul Alciatore
10-06-2016, 02:00 AM
Back in the Jan-Feb 2009 issue of Home Shop Machinist I had an article on an inexpensive method of generating accurate angles. It describes a method for using a set of angle gauges, which are less expensive than Jo blocks, and combining them with the sine method but without an actual sine bar, so that any in between angles could be accurately generated.

It also discusses sine bar theory.

I have placed it in my LockBox folder so it can be downloaded.

Caution: It contains math but only addition and subtraction is needed to actually use the method in the shop.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6hx2gq491h6c7zn/AngleGauge.doc?dl=0

If you have any questions just post them here.

oldtiffie
10-06-2016, 02:59 AM
I shudder when some one wants "Jo Block" and "True Sine Bar" measurement - and "tolerance" where all to often they are neither wanted nor needed within what ever the real tolerance/limits needed for a job really is in fact.

Same applies to "surface finish".

If they really are justified - then by all means use them - otherwise don't.

I rarely use some quite accurate and sophisticated tools that I have as I always start at "basics" and "fundamentals".

They have stood me in very good stead over any years and are often "on show" (used) where as the "better/precision" stuff rarely gets used or sees the light of day - but they are there for when they really are needed.

Same applies to choosing which machines to use.

One of these days I will start a thread about "limits and fits" and "tolerances" and "surface finish" all of which are inter-related/dependent/reliant to some degree - and how to take advantage of them for the optimum result.

Euph0ny
10-06-2016, 06:36 AM
Don't know for certain, but I'd guess it's one of those "stair step" looking blocks, with the step heights equaling the height required for setting standard angles on a 5" sine bar. I've seen them before, along with shop made versions.

I asked him, and it was. Here´s one:

https://www.google.com/search?q=sine+bar+accessories&client=tablet-android-samsung&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjq85uVy8TPAhWMeD4KHVAKDQcQ_AUICCgC&biw=768&bih=1024#tbm=isch&q=sine+bar+multi+step&imgrc=GcklE1lQgKfkLM%3A

John Garner
10-06-2016, 03:11 PM
A couple of decades ago, when we were still measuring angular errors in degrees, arcminutes, and arcseconds -- then using custom-machined wedge shims to reduce them to less than one arcminute -- I designed a shim machining fixture using three balls (arranged as in Les A W Harris's picture in Posting 7, above) to generate the required compound of angles. To simplify the calculation of the required under-ball spacing shims, the distances between the ball centers was set to 3.441 inch along the ball-triangle base and height, square-root-of-2 times 3.441 inch = 4.866 inch along the triangle hypotenuse, so that each 0.001 inch of under-ball spacer tilted the plate 1 arcminute.

The 0.001 inch per arcminute is, of course, a linear approximation of a non-linear function . . . but for angles of five degrees or less (and we hardly ever needed to correct more than a half degree of angle error), the error of the approximation is less than arcseconds magnitude.

Worked really well, but updating our measurement equipment resulted in angular-measurement units expressed in decimally-subdivided degrees. I revised the fixture design, enlarging it so that two of the ball-center distances were 5.735 inch, with the third being square-root-of-two x 5.735 inch = 8.111 inch. This reduced tilt angle generated by 0.001 inch of under-ball spacer to 0.01 degree, with very nearly the same maximum error over a range of 0 +/- 5 degree.

oldtiffie
10-06-2016, 09:37 PM
For what its worth:

sin 5 degrees = 0.0872

and similarly is:

Tan 5 degrees = 0.0875

The difference over 5 units is (0.0875 - 0.08720) = 0.0003 units over 5" length so the difference is minute (very small) and nothing to get hung up about.

A good scientific/mathematical calculator will do the conversion from decimal degrees to degrees:minutes:seconds - and reverse - with just one or perhaps two keystrokes.

The difference over either the sin or tan of an angle is very close to being linear over a distance 5 degrees

gerritv
10-06-2016, 09:45 PM
OldTiffie THANK YOU. I have never been able to understand why some individuals on these various forums need to slag others off for presenting ideas, esp ones that seem to be well documented.

So, I appreciate greatly that you and the others above took the time to find the information for me/us and share it. I enjoy making tools to use for my various projects. I promise not to use over specified dimensions, I am happy when two parts fit close-enough for the purpose :-)

Gerrit

Andre3127
10-06-2016, 09:52 PM
Wish I could see pictures :)

Paul Alciatore
10-06-2016, 09:53 PM
Yes, for small angles there is very little difference between the sine and the tangent functions. But as the angle gets larger, the difference increases at an accelerating rate. The sine of 45 degrees is 0.7071 while the tangent is 1.000. And when you get to 90 degrees the sine is 1.000 while the tangent is infinite. You just can't get a bigger difference than that.

So don't try to expand that trick as you will quickly get into trouble.

I took similar liberties in the case of small angles in my article that I posted a link to above.




For what its worth:

sin 5 degrees = 0.0872

and similarly is:

Tan 5 degrees = 0.0875

The difference over 5 units is (0.0875 - 0.08720) = 0.0003 units over 5" length so the difference is minute (very small) and nothing to get hung up about.

A good scientific/mathematical calculator will do the conversion from decimal degrees to degrees:minutes:seconds - and reverse - with just one or perhaps two keystrokes.

The difference over either the sin or tan of an angle is very close to being linear over a distance 5 degrees

oldtiffie
10-06-2016, 10:06 PM
Thanks Gerrit - appreciated.

A very obvious and practical and useful "angle setter/measurer" is the common shop rotary table. I got rid of my very good 8" rotary table as my 6" rotary tables do all that I need - the 8" table was far too heavy and awkward for me and it was just an accident waiting to happen - so "Zip" - it got "binned" to/for scrap as it had no value to me and it just took up space that could be better used for other "stuff".

Stand it vertical (on its end), bolt an angle plate to the face of it with the vernier setting to zero and the "flat" (face) of the angle plate set to zero (horizontal) - and there you have an ability to measure and/or set up to an angle of 20 arc minutes which is more than accurate enough for may purposes.

The angles do not need to be calculated and they can be read off and be set or read directly from the hand-wheel and table vernier.

A magnetic angle table is a great help too - especially on a surface grinder or tool and cutter grinder. There may be no need to bold the rotary table to a machine table either as both work quite well enough on any reasonably flat surface (including but not necessarily needed - a surface plate).

The rotary table is not as "stiff/rigid" as I'd like when it is stood vertically on a machine table so I used a bit of hot rolled 1" x 1" x 1/8" angle - seen here - works a treat and was made from stuff I had in the shop and cost no money or very little time.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/HF-45%20Mill%20misc/R-Tabset-up1.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/HF-45%20Mill%20misc/R-Tabset-up1.jpg.html)

oldtiffie
10-07-2016, 02:53 AM
Smaller compound angles - easy:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Vise9.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/Vise/Vise9.jpg.html)

A tilting table on a rotary table takes care of a lot of the more "difficult" "compound" angles as well.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Vise6.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/Vise/Vise6.jpg.html)

And these variations to a theme i.e. setting/reading angles etc.).

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Vise2.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/Vise/Vise2.jpg.html)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Vise4.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/Vise/Vise2.jpg.html)

Carm
10-07-2016, 08:36 AM
(snip)

One of these days I will start a thread about "limits and fits" and "tolerances" and "surface finish" all of which are inter-related/dependent/reliant to some degree - and how to take advantage of them for the optimum result.

At first reading, I wondered, why bother? Pretty much all is covered in even my oldest Handbook.
But the forum brings interesting response and experience.
In my no doubt limited definition of "Home shop machinist" a true grasp of tolerance seems lacking. An individual who can produce flawless parts on their own can be at a complete loss if having to spec' for a jobber whereas the jobber can likely move decimals to the left and produce functional cost efficient parts.

oldtiffie
10-08-2016, 03:23 AM
And a few more: "angle setting/measuring":

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/HF-45%20Mill%20misc/HF45-5.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/HF-45%20Mill%20misc/HF45-5.jpg.html)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/HF-45%20Mill%20misc/HF45-4-1.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/oldtiffie/media/HF-45%20Mill%20misc/HF45-4-1.jpg.html)