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Evan
02-18-2008, 12:19 PM
I can't help it this time but I just had a really good laugh.

This quote from our new member, CaptainEqs is what did it.



He tries to prove his point with a book published in 1953 (a time when most aircraft then in the air were made with FABRIC and WOOD), then he disputes the very same company which wrote that book when they list 6061 as an "aerospace aluminum" on their website.



I guess that pretty well settles how much he knows about aircraft, never mind what they are built with.

That is my last word.

Lew Hartswick
02-18-2008, 12:24 PM
Yea. Remembering WW II very well I had to laugh at that too.
...lew...

Ryobiguy
02-18-2008, 12:30 PM
Who cares if the HSM typically learns that some 2xxx and 7xxx aluminums might be referred to as "aircraft aluminum," regardless of what some parts of planes are made out of.

I want to know what is considered "aircraft wood". ;)

Edit: Actually, aircraft fabric is probably more interesting nowadays. I saw something that said the plane upholstery industry is extremely cut-throat, since weight savings can be tremendous.

smiller6912
02-18-2008, 12:52 PM
...............never mind, I really don't wanna' go there....................................

lynnl
02-18-2008, 12:57 PM
"...aircraft wood.." ?
Well if the name of Howard Hughes' experimental plane is an indication, it must be spruce.

lazlo
02-18-2008, 01:00 PM
You opened a whole new thread after Neill locked the last one, just so you could get the Last Word? :rolleyes:

IOWOLF
02-18-2008, 01:14 PM
Of course he did,How long have you been here?

It's nothing I wouldn't have done.

But While we are on the subject of IDIOTS, I am subbing today for another teacher who I do respect.
Keep in mind this is getting to wards the end of the quarter, He has been in a beginning Machine shop class for 8 weeks, 2 days per week, 3 hours per day.

And he still couldn't read a caliper!

Till today, I took Him aside and we did caliper training for 2 hours,Man was he pissed he couldn't work on a machine.

rantbot
02-18-2008, 02:37 PM
Deleted. Never mind, probably a good one to stay out of.

Rookie machinist
02-18-2008, 03:12 PM
How can a guy last 8 weeks in a machine shop course and not read the calipers? Seems it would be hard to complete any projects.

Forrest Addy
02-18-2008, 04:21 PM
In the later '30's "aircraft wood" was a serious concern and carefully written standard were promulgated. Wood and fabric control surfaces in military airplanes were present even after WW II. The EEA in Oshkosh WI is a repositiry for this old lore. Lumber for aircraft construction is carefully selected for species, grain orientation, dryness, etc. Aircraft plywood is in a class by itself rivaling aluminum for strength to weight as a finished structure.

One only has to consider the famous mosquito bomber of WW II capable of near sonic velocities in a dive and it was of all plywood construction. Since it was mostly wood, radars of the era could not detect it except as close range.

Materials have improved over the years but no-one should scoff at the original composite - wood - as antiquated and obsolete. It merely has properties that render it unsuitable for modern aircraft construction: heat tolerance, fire hazard, water absorbtion, and rot and fungus susceptability. And it grows on trees whicjh are self re-producing. Aluminum and carbon fiber have to undergo considerable refienment from raw materials before they are ready for manufacture.

tattoomike68
02-18-2008, 04:37 PM
I make all my planes from paper. :D


http://www.10paperairplanes.com/images/901-free-paper-airplane-instructions.jpg

lynnl
02-18-2008, 04:43 PM
...probably paper made from spruce trees. :)

garyphansen
02-18-2008, 05:12 PM
The Spruce Goose was made from Birch. Gary P. Hansen

IOWOLF
02-18-2008, 05:15 PM
And a lot of Plywood, may be some spruce in that.

loose nut
02-18-2008, 05:56 PM
One only has to consider the famous mosquito bomber of WW II capable of near sonic velocities in a dive and it was of all plywood construction. Since it was mostly wood, radars of the era could not detect it except as close range.

.

Most radar's today would still have trouble seeing them, if not more trouble. Modern stealth aircraft can be seen better by older obsolete radars, they tend to use longer wavelenghts.

Oldbrock
02-18-2008, 07:31 PM
That particular special spruce is sitka spruce

Boomer
02-18-2008, 07:45 PM
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/

lazlo
02-18-2008, 08:02 PM
I couldn't give a rat's ass about whether 6061 is used in air frames, but I thought this was funny :D


http://www.aircraftspruce.com/

Airframe Parts - Fuel Systems - Caps

ACS FLUSH FUEL CAP

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/10600.jpg

The ACS Twist-To-Lock Flush Fuel Cap Assy is machined from 6061 aluminum billet.

tony ennis
02-18-2008, 08:08 PM
I was born in 1952.

Love,
B-52 Bomber

rantbot
02-18-2008, 08:14 PM
The stiffness-to-weight ratio of spruce is, at its best, maybe 20% better than that of titanium or aluminum. Of course the properties of spruce are highly non-isotropic; across the grain the stiffness properties are nothing to get excited about. Spruce remains an outstanding material for flight structures.

torker
02-18-2008, 08:17 PM
Geez! I ordered a tri-axle logging truck load of firewood logs after I buggered up my back. This is only part of it...the bigger part is in the lower part of my place.
Now I read this post and remember..the dirty buggers snuck a couple of spruce logs into my load of "jackpine". Spruce makes for poor firewood so now I'm thinkin.... Guitar...Airplane....Guitar.... Airplane...Guitar...Gotta do something with the spruce :D
Oh hell...just beam me up Captin...or Scotty or someone..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00001-36.jpg

oldtiffie
02-18-2008, 08:48 PM
The "last word" - the heading of the OP on this thread.

Yeah - well?

Evan has made only one post on this thread - as OP - the first of 21 posts so far.

It seemed that Evan extended the thread (124 posts!! of it!!) that was locked:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=20476

I was and still am very highly confused as to what a/the "last word" is so I went looking:

http://www.tfd.com/last+word

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=last+word

http://www.corsinet.com/braincandy/dying.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_Last_Words

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Last_words

Perhaps if and when it is "sorted out" some kind soul will tell me what the "Last word" really is, both in general and specifically with regard to this thread.

It seems that Evan is going to leave it to somebody else!!!

Very Machiavellian.

J Tiers
02-18-2008, 08:57 PM
Most radar's today would still have trouble seeing them, if not more trouble. Modern stealth aircraft can be seen better by older obsolete radars, they tend to use longer wavelenghts.

Not that it's important, but the two enormous engines would look like the side of a barn to almost any radar these days.

I must have missed the original discussion that apparently got closed..... I will now proceed to give myself (totally undeserved) credit for the good taste to have stayed away.

tattoomike68
02-18-2008, 09:47 PM
I must have missed the original discussion that apparently got closed..... I will now proceed to give myself (totally undeserved) credit for the good taste to have stayed away.


The thread was hijacked. It started with a good question that later turned into a penis length comparison contest.

I find thats a short comming of the vBulletin software. A moderator cant even split the thread and make two threads in the even of a total hijack like most other forum software can do.

Being this thread is now about wood I do remember using alot of vinyl covered birch plywood that held up well to the stress foundry patterns mounted on it for sand casting molding machines.

thats some good stuff, it could take a pounding.

rantbot
02-18-2008, 09:49 PM
Perhaps if and when it is "sorted out" some kind soul will tell me what the "Last word" really is, both in general and specifically with regard to this thread.
It's a line of test indicators from Athol.

J Tiers
02-18-2008, 10:07 PM
I seem to recall that someone relatively recently suggested that I was "one of those folks who is never wrong (in his own mind)..."

I actually read through the closed thread........ and I must say, if I AM going to be a "never wrong" person, I got a lot of practicing ahead of me to get CLOSE to being good at that............. WEESH.

I had a boss who used to give prospective hires a test, part of which was evaluating their "need to convince"..... which was a salesman trait, but we were an engineering dept.... never mind.... In any case, I think I know where to find some folks who would have been off the test scale..... :D

lazlo
02-18-2008, 10:12 PM
The "last word" - the heading of the OP on this thread.

Evan has made only one post on this thread - as OP - the first of 21 posts so far.

...22 Tiffie ;).

oldtiffie
02-18-2008, 10:26 PM
The thread was hijacked. It started with a good question that later turned into a penis length comparison contest.


It's a line of test indicators from Athol.

Oh - they make 'em THAT big!

I take it that the indicators were used as comparators?

I am none the wiser but doubtless am now much better informed.

Thanks.

JRouche
02-18-2008, 10:28 PM
Aircraft Wood.. Last time I heard of that was when me and the wifey were taking a trip to Hawaii.. Mile high club and aircraft wood. JRouche

torker
02-18-2008, 10:33 PM
JR.. LOL! So if a guy got a 6061 woodie... that just could be a hit with the missus (or other mile high participant) ;)
Russ

oldtiffie
02-18-2008, 11:21 PM
The "last word" - the heading of the OP on this thread.

Evan has made only one post on this thread - as OP - the first of 21 posts so far.


...22 Tiffie ;).

Touche'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch%C3%A9

darryl
02-18-2008, 11:22 PM
It's quite possible the last word is zoo unless zow is a word. I know it's a name 'cause we had a friend called zow. Anyway, zoo came to mind quite easily while reading on this forum. :)

And I don't want to hear anybody say zylophone. What is that anyway, and who cares

oldtiffie
02-18-2008, 11:42 PM
When asleep?

Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-.....................................z-z etc.

dvideo
02-19-2008, 01:46 AM
I find it pretty darn interesting to see how the Spruce Goose, Higgins Boats, and the like were part of an evolution....

plywoods...... (roman shields to WWII aircraft and boats.....)
composites - fiberglass
fiberglass boats....
wooden boats (again.... West Systems and the fabulous Gougeon Bros)
surfboards --> AUVs, Carbon Fiber spacecraft.....

there is a real evolutionary path here...
A lot more to come...

so..... while the "last word".. may have been "off"... it sure is an interesting topic...

So SCA folks (some) DO want their shields made of Kevlar... ( :>).

-jerry

IOWOLF
02-19-2008, 06:03 AM
JR.. LOL! So if a guy got a 6061 woodie... that just could be a hit with the missus (or other mile high participant) ;)
Russ

Are you referring to the Gurl?:D

torker
02-19-2008, 06:48 AM
Nope... she's scared of airplanes.

malbenbut
02-19-2008, 10:41 AM
My wife always has the last word and it is ---- OFF
MBB

clutch
02-19-2008, 03:17 PM
As far as what material is 'structural', that is up to the designer. Wood, steel tubing, and fabric have and are still being used. Air planes constructed of it are still flying.

The MIG 25 was made out of nickel steel for the most part, something most would not consider a structural metal for aircraft.

I don't have a problem with 6061 being used, if the designer did the calc's and the accountants liked the numbers than it could and would be used. There are many trade offs made in designing something be it aircraft or widget.

Clutch

topct
02-19-2008, 04:57 PM
I don't have a problem with 6061 being used, if the designer did the calc's and the accountants liked the numbers than it could and would be used. There are many trade offs made in designing something be it aircraft or widget.Clutch

And neither does Boeing. I have seen their name not only on orders for 6061 but for alloys that are real close to what beer cans and boats are made of.

John Stevenson
02-19-2008, 05:25 PM
My wife always has the last word and it is ---- OFF
MBB

I think I married her sister...........................



.

J.Ramsey
02-19-2008, 06:04 PM
I think I married her sister........................

Didn't realize we were brother in laws:D

oldtiffie
02-19-2008, 06:37 PM
My wife always has the last word and it is ---- OFF
MBB



I think I married her sister...........................

.

Odd that, John.

Friend of mine who is as irreligious as I am, tells me there certainly is a Devil and so there must be a God.

"How do ya know there's Devil" asked I.

"Because I married her bl**dy daughter" sez 'e.

Lots of equally irreligious men when told of this all (well out of ear-shot of their wives) said "Amen to that" (with almost religious fervour).

It certainly was the "last word" on the topic from most of them!!!

I wonder what it means.

And that is my last word on it all ('coz my wife sez so!!).

IOWOLF
02-19-2008, 06:42 PM
Thank the Gods for that. :)