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shoprat
02-18-2008, 12:30 PM
hi again been a while
after reading over a lot of the posts and especially lanes i felt a little better about posting my own.i am a welder at work and i fill in in the machine shop when needed,manual machines only.ill be 52 next month and i still dont know what i want to be when i grow up!4yrs welding 20 plus driving truck and construction when i was younger!i dont want to do it anymore,i like it as a hobby.kind of tired of getting all grubby every day,but dont have any idea what to do.it got bad enough to go to the doc and she put me on anti depressants.they havent started to work yet so i dont want to make any rash decisions but wish i could just take a year off and figure it out.sorry to be so negetive just wondering if anybody has been here and if so what did you end up doing? thanks i will go cry in my coffee now.

MTNGUN
02-18-2008, 12:55 PM
Pretty much the story of my life.

My high school counselors taught me that I should choose an occupation that I enjoyed. I was naive enough to believe them.

I enjoyed being a student, so I tried to be a teacher. I hated the politics of public schools.

I enjoyed tinkering with motorcycles, so I worked as a mechanic for a while. When I had to do it day after day after day, I hated it.

I enjoyed math and problem solving, so I tried being an engineer. On the rare occasions that I actually got to use my training, it was very satisfying, but mostly I went to meetings and did paperwork and made phone calls, and I hated it

It took me a long time to figure out that work is supposed to be unpleasant -- that's why they have to pay you to do it.

I do enjoy some aspects of my job, and I take pride in it when a project turns out well, but the bottom line is, I wouldn't do it full time unless I had to make a living. And I am now comfortable with that. Yes, that may be all there is.

All I ask from work now is that I am capable of doing it, and that I don't have to lie or play games. And if I can find time to pursue hobbies and spend time with friends and family, that's about as good as it's going to get.

Don't expect your job to supply you with happiness. You may have to find happiness on your own, and it can be darned tough.

SGW
02-18-2008, 01:04 PM
Oh, yeah. One day work became....work. I wondered what else I could do that wouldn't seem so much like work, never did come up with anything. These days, "meaning" in life comes a lot more from interactions with friends and family and community service than from a job.

Your Old Dog
02-18-2008, 01:19 PM
I guess we all understand there's a reason they pay us to be there ! I wanted to be a photographer. I spent half my life standing outside court rooms and homicide scenes waiting for interviews. Be careful what you wish for. I had more fun engraving guns till I found out I could make money at it. I raised the family for 2 years with a hammer and chisel and it got to be work!

shoprat
02-18-2008, 01:45 PM
thanks you guys for the response,hope i didnt bring anybody down.its just gotten very hard to get interested in any of my hobbies or work(doc says its depression)guess iwas just wondering how many here have decided to make a complete change in their career and if it worked out. thanks again

davidh
02-18-2008, 02:25 PM
antidepressants take a bit of time to kick in. i too am on them for about 7 years now. im 66 and suppose to be retired but being self employed that will most likely never happen. i have been in the tool repair / sales / industrial supply business for nearly 25 years working out of my "summer kitchen" building that was built just after wwII on this farm. prior to that i was a mfg. supt' for 15 yrs and that made me lots of mechanical operations experience but took a toll on the family. being the only lamppost in the dog kennel does that. prior to that i was in the mechanical eng'r field and liked that but my a.d.d. did not let me concentrate like i needed to do.

there are so many many things a mechanical minded person can do to make a living, as a self employed person. . . . . i wils i could start over again but so do most of us at my age.

starting over at 52 is difficult but not impossible at all. usually your $$$$ requirments are far less than they were at say 35 or so, the kids are hopefully grown and gone or at least damn close and wisdom dictates just how little ya need to be happy.

i have been a tinkerer for all my life, never having any money to buy the nice tools a fella should have until i was over 50 and now i can't seem to find the energy to tinker after fixing tools and stuff for other people all day. its easier in the summer but in the cold dark of winter i don;t want to even walk out to the heated machine shop or work shop after supper.

so anyway, keep the faith. better days will come. and when all is said and done, hopefully the widow will have a hell of an auction !

davidh

Ed Tipton
02-18-2008, 02:59 PM
Pretty much, I've come to the conclusion that regardless of your income level, everyone is broke...just on different levels. I've lived long enough to have had some money, and I've been dead broke. I've survived both. I can honestly say that I was no happier when I had money than I am now that I'm on fixed income. I no longer feel driven to succeed... and that makes it easier to accept things. When I felt as though I was being pushed to be successful and have a great income, was the worse time of my life. I'm more relaxed now, and I'm more successful than I've ever been....so go figure.
Nobody ever said that life was easy or fair. It is what it is.:)

smiller6912
02-18-2008, 03:12 PM
It sounds like it must be mid-winter-depression time again............
I futzed with a stuck cam on a D1-4 for 2 hours yesterday and that was about enough shop for me. I spent the rest of the day lookin' at nekked pix on the interweb, that cheered me up a little.:D

snowman
02-18-2008, 03:16 PM
Welcome to the club Shoprat!

Three years ago I did the same thing...antidepressants/medication/smoke 2 packs a day/pot of coffee...and that was all BEFORE going to work.

Ok, the 2 packs of cigs were spread out, but about 8 of them were before work.

I quit my job making good good money and took a job making 6 bucks an hour. Spent more time fishing.

I was happy as a clam for two years...then something happened again. Namely, I quit fishing as much...but now I'm back on the antidpressants, back on the coffee, at least I quit the smokes.

My point...sometimes it's not the job, but it's something in you. Quitting the job may make the stress go away, but you didn't learn to deal with it, so it's likely you are going to end up in the same location in a few years.

I suggest a good therapist, the drugs and a fishing pole on the evenings.

kjbllc
02-18-2008, 05:01 PM
Sorry to hear you are having a bad time. Although I also spent 18 years in a school system, I still liked the work that I did, electical/hvac, and either taking or teaching at nite school. As long as I was able to find it challenging I was ok. I quit last july, and now I am doing a whole lot of things, the money is slack right now, but I have to say I am more satisfied and happier than I have been in a long time. Just getting rid of the stress of the job was a big help. I am starting (again) my electrical/hvac business, and am adding blacksmithing and violin making, things that I have been fooling with but not having the time to do for the last 20 some years. I have come to the conclusion that its is not the money, or where you are, but how you are looking at it. Not a new idea I know. It seems that if I am going in the right direction things seem to work out pretty well. The old adage of being true to yourself does apply IMO. I always wanted to see what a lathe was like and I decided to look into seriously and in two weeks I had one, now I have a line on a milling machine. I wish I could give you a formula that I used to get here but I don' know how it all happened really. I don't worry about what is going to happen in two weeks, and try to avoid thinking about things that don't add to my feeling good. I know I can make money if I have to, and I am not afraid to work so why should I be worried aobut money all the time? But It still sneaks in now and then. I also have been through bouts of depression, and in the end I think somehow I figured out what was really making me depressed, not what It seemed to be at the time (money,love,bad luck etc.) I know this not all that well put and a bit disorganized. I wish you luck in finding out what brings you happiness.

Oldbrock
02-18-2008, 05:38 PM
I hope I don't come across as a polyanna type but I have always looked forward to each day as a new adventure.I spent most of my work years in the Alberta oil patch and even when I knew there were 100 2"-2400 flanges waiting for me to machine on the Herbert 9B30 I would still anticipate the day. Sometimes I would be sent out into the patch to do some millwright work or thread some drill collars, you never knew what would come up. After 10 years of that I went to U of A and went on to teach machine shop in a high school. Again, each new day was anticipated with pleasure. Most of my students are in a trade of some sort but most are machinists. Some own their own shops, some are in charge of large shops in the oilpatch. and one is supervising three shops. one in Alberta, one in Huston Texas and one in Mexico. My boys have really done themselves proud.. I still anticipate each day. Remember, attitude is everything, you can choose how you live each day, when it's gone, it's gone forever. We only have a finite number of days given to us. It is up to us how we approach each one, our choice. We can say "Tomorrow will be better" but today is yesterday's tomorrow. ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING. Peter

Oldbrock
02-18-2008, 05:44 PM
thought I'd lost it so posted it again. remember, I'm a machinist first.

lane
02-18-2008, 08:02 PM
I`m Sorry I made every one feel bad. I do like my job but it like all jobs suck.
Been their done that.
The one thing I DO know is you need a Challenge. That in its self makes work more pleasant. Take on a challenge that will help. for sure.

oldtiffie
02-18-2008, 11:15 PM
I'd suggest that "discipline" is a large component of cause.

When you are working for an employer or yourself in business, you have plenty of incentives to "get going and keep going" as to do otherwise can be a disaster.

The "boss" and the "business" do not only give you "incentives", but also instill a level of discipline - either "self" and/or "imposed" because of a potential loss and adverse consequences.

When you retire, you have to develop and maintain a good level of self discipline.

That's perhaps bad enough - but the alternative is much worse.

How many people have you seen or know that were really good when discipline was imposed on them and their day was organised for them by others, but just "faded away" in seemingly no time at all after they had retired?

If you get the feeling or attitude that you are just "filling in time" or "taking up space", or if you "drop your bundle" you have real problems and might well be "history" unless you adjust your attitude - or have it adjusted for you.

nc cooter
02-19-2008, 06:18 AM
Shoprat, been there. My career has run the gauntlet, from company president to the street, and in between. Severe depression, thoughts of suicide,psychiatrists,family, friends,searching for " THE ANSWER". Well I finally found it. It was inside of me all along. Happiness is waking up each day. It's not a job, money, things or people. Look inside yourself. Do you like what you see? Yes, then you are ALMOST THERE. No, then decide to make some changes. YOU have to want it and YOU have to do it.
Each day you must look for the good things. They are all around you. A smile, a flower,sunrise,storm clouds, a kind word...........
When people ask" how are you doing" my answer is " I am doing great cause I woke up this morning and everything else is just gravy."
Hope you find something useful in this old man's rambling.

laddy
02-19-2008, 08:15 AM
Work is work! You don't have to like it you just have to do it. Figure out something you can do that makes more than you spend, get through the day and kick back.

mike6845
02-19-2008, 09:03 AM
Hey Shoprat:

Been there done that with the best and the worst. I woke up one day sometime before I was fifty and said "Boy, you ain't got a plan and don't have a clue"

Once you figure out who you are and what do you really want out of life and are prepared to make some very big changes and sacrifice if needed, things aren't going to change much.

A fire in the belly and not taking no for any answer is the palce to start. Worked for me and in ten years I had everything I ever wanted.

Go for it.

Evan
02-19-2008, 09:36 AM
Every day above ground is a good day.

A.K. Boomer
02-19-2008, 09:39 AM
I hope I don't come across as a polyanna type but I have always looked forward to each day as a new adventure.I spent most of my work years in the Alberta oil patch and even when I knew there were 100 2"-2400 flanges waiting for me to machine on the Herbert 9B30 I would still anticipate the day. Sometimes I would be sent out into the patch to do some millwright work or thread some drill collars, you never knew what would come up. After 10 years of that I went to U of A and went on to teach machine shop in a high school. Again, each new day was anticipated with pleasure. Most of my students are in a trade of some sort but most are machinists. Some own their own shops, some are in charge of large shops in the oilpatch. and one is supervising three shops. one in Alberta, one in Huston Texas and one in Mexico. My boys have really done themselves proud.. I still anticipate each day. Remember, attitude is everything, you can choose how you live each day, when it's gone, it's gone forever. We only have a finite number of days given to us. It is up to us how we approach each one, our choice. We can say "Tomorrow will be better" but today is yesterday's tomorrow. ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING. Peter


This post was worth repeating, Thanks Brock --- your a breath of fresh air -- there are two school of thoughts -- mind over matter and cause and effect, We cannot rely on one or the other, we have to find it in us to try our absolute best (mind over matter) with at the same time realizing that we are only human and have restrictions, still, many restrictions are self imposed,
and we need to sort through to find them -- otherwise the "cause and effect" can overule to the point of making us victims of everything ---- if this is the case we need to try and re-gain control, or even ask bigger questions of what might be holding us back.

My personal take of reading what iv just read and also knowing what I found out about myself and many others around me, I believe a very good percentage of the populous is suffering from severe Auto-intoxication, if you dont know what it is look it up, you just might find that you dont need drugs of any sort, take care of it and the spark will come back in life, even more-so than when you were a kid... Only stating what has worked for me, Not telling anybody what to do but believe me Iv been there and know at least how I climbed out.

fixerdave
02-20-2008, 01:04 AM
I can't give any real advice because the job I'm in, and love, was dumb-luck. But, I can at least counter the "work is work, you're not suppose to like it - that's why they pay you" argument.

I will agree that doing something for work that you love as a hobby is a sure way to kill your interest in it. Been there, done that. I'd never consider making money at machining. I'd probably starve anyway; 6 hours to make a bolt just wouldn't cut it. A good hobby should stay a hobby. But, that doesn't mean that you can't love your work.

A long time ago, I was working as a computer tech, a bored computer tech. So, when the opportunity came along to be a network admin, I jumped at it, being a natural career path and all. One year into that, I realised that I hated it and wanted to make a change. I thought teaching would be good and I started moving in that direction. When the opportunity to be a labtech came along, I though "well, that job would suck, but it would move me closer to teaching." So, I took it. After working as a labtech for six months, I got my opportunity to teach a 3 month semester of "Introduction to computers and computer aided design" and off I went, with my leave of absence from being a labtech. Three months later, I was doing a lot of thinking...

You see, even though the thought of doing front line customer service as a labtech would have been at the very bottom of any list of career goals I would have ever made, ever, I loved doing it. I don't really like people that much, I'm kind of anti-social. The thought of working at a desk answering stupid questions all night long is something anyone, myself included, would think to be the worst kind of job for me. But, for some reason, I love it. So, I declined the next teaching contract and stayed a labtech, been here a dozen years now. I still really enjoy coming into work.

I'm not saying this to rub people's noses in their job dissatisfaction, I'm just trying to demonstrate that people actually can find work they really, really like to do. And, even more, that work may not be something they would ever think they might enjoy. If you hate your job, organise things so you can take some time off and then try something different. If it doesn't work, go back to your old job and organise things such that you can take some time off to do something different. Repeat until you find something better than what you have. Sooner or later, you'll find something that makes you want to go to work, even if that's just a long list of jobs that make your awful job seem pretty good. Okay, so I am giving advice. But then, even dumb-luck requires that you take a chance.

David...

dvideo
02-20-2008, 01:23 AM
really..

there's stuff out there that is just unbelievable and new....

Some folks are buiding a 3000+ foot skyscraper... others a dead sea canal...

you can listen to the best music of all time - for virtually free today! or even pick "anytime"... http://www.ksbr.net/webcast.html

The problem can be that there is too much to do.... It's why you can hang out here and see what other folks are up to....

--jr

Astronowanabe
02-20-2008, 05:17 AM
it is.

and you know, it is more than enough.
Even it you can't feel it for yourself all the time. you may remember times when it was enough or you may see or hear of the effect it has on others as they revel it's wonders. it is there. Unfortunatly we are basically bags of chemicals, what we think we know and feel is pretty well determined
and can be externally tweaked at will.
Some like myself are lucky and we skate along smug in our belief that if we can power through the lows with "sheer force of will" then everybody else can and should.
it is not true.
I hope you and the Dr.s find the right mix and level of anti depressants for you, I have seen them do wonders for people.

You asked for examples of pulling up stakes and doing something completely different. I worked building and fixing and installing this and that for about 20 years. it was clear, that is all there was, and all there was going to be.

I quit and went to school (which is not at all fun with a family of four).
I did math, called it computer science and was hired as a student and am still working for the same project 10 years later. I do still enjoy it but there are more problems to work on than I will ever be able to make a dent in. I guess I can think of it as job security.

For me doing math and programming and databases and all is fun, it is still building stuff but it all in your head. The one part that was missing for me was having something tangible at the end. Now after work I come home and build telescopes and that brought me back into metal working as a hobby.

trust me, there is more than enough. I hope you find your way to yours.

best wishes

winchman
02-20-2008, 07:47 AM
I find that keeping busy is the best anti-depressant, even if I have to force a little myself to do it. My trick for the past couple years has been to sign up for welding classes as an audit student at the local tech college. $180 gets me in the door for a quarter, and I want to be sure to get my money's worth.

I show up every day, have the run of the shop, and get to do whatever I want that doesn't interfere with the regular students. The instructor usually brings in enough projects from the school maintenance and automotive shops, projects for other instructors, the local YMCA, city police and housing authority, etc, to keep me busy doing something useful. I'm probably the best "employee" they've had in a long time, and I pay them!!

I'm good enough that they don't have to worry about me doing crappy work, but I'm almost always challenged by some part of every project. Sometimes I come up with ingenious solutions. Rarely, something comes along that I think is a really bad idea, and I can just say no to those without consequences.

I wish you luck in finding something that works for you.

Roger

A.K. Boomer
02-20-2008, 08:36 AM
I hope you and the Dr.s find the right mix and level of anti depressants for you, I have seen them do wonders for people.


I can see that sometimes, but may I make the suggestion that if your going to go that route that you should use them as a serious tool to buy time, and not as a life long crutch, We are bags of chemicals - but we really are designed to be self contained working units, If something needs to be added to the mix its a good indicator that there is indeed an imbalance or malfunction,
The reason I bring this up is many of these posts mimmick the way I used to feel about life, the big news flash for me was it really wasnt the "job", the "sport" or where I "lived" or this or that --- the fact is is I was "caged from the inside"
Severe auto-intoxication creeps up on you, It can turn into a living hell, How can you really experience anything New or good if your functioning off of a closed loop system? If your assimilation and elimination process is greatly hindered the results will be just this, Yet if someone was to look at me from the outside they would say "the guys an athlete --- He doesnt look like he could possibly have this problem"
This is just my two cents -- so please dont take this the wrong way, but I would feel bad if I did not post about how I got myself back to proper health,
For me --- as difficult as it was (I think I came close to losing it) Im very glad I handled it on my own and did not seek professional help as I know they would have just tried to mask my real problem -- what I did was track it down to the cause, with cloudy mind and all, now things are getting crystal clear.
I believe for most that it took years if not decades to get into this position, your not going to pop a pill and fix it, its taken me years to make the change,
But I learned so much about the dead cooked processed enzyme/nutrient exempt stuff we call food and how to eat more the way we are designed to --- and now its not a mystery anymore, neither is good health both mentally and physically.
Good luck and I hope in some way this helps.

GKman
02-20-2008, 09:51 AM
I can certainly understand the way that you feel. Career-wise, I've M/C mechanic, electronics work, dumb factory work,

career student, mechanical engineer, building inspector and official and always fell back on remodel work when whatever

I was doing stopped working. Had some talent in some of them and the world and me were both better off leaving some.

Some times I feel like the comedian with the line "You don't like my attitude? How'd you like to be stuck with it 24/7." My

only claims for self improvement were quitting smoking, going to where I could get help in stopping drinking and going

to get help with depression and "read and follow label directions" after that. All worked very well for me. I've worked

with a psychiatrist for over 10 years with the antidepressants. Unfortunately a lot of it is "try this, we'll see if it works". I

figure his thousands of hours of ongoing experience with it give him an edge over a family doctor with a prescription

pad. It has usually worked. Part of the therapy is seeing if you still need it after a while and going without it. Again "See

how it works" Sometimes it works a while then stops. That sucks, it creeps up (down really) slowly, so it eases you into

feeling like crap so you've gotten there without noticing it.


Got a new GP (regular doctor). He looks over a long list of all this dope I've worked up to (and hate). We talk about it. He

decides my prostate is OK. An antidepressant, Cymbalta, is making me pee every 15 minutes. Stop taking it, see if I need

a replacement, (not yet), throw away two prostate Rx's and another for heartburn that one of them cause. Problems

solved. More money for toys.

If you choose to go with all of the "Pick yourself up by your bootstraps, don't use a crutch" guys, be my guest. I have a disease called depression that doesn't allow electrical signals to pass through my brain correctly without assistance such as therapy, exercise, medication. Maybe the others can use their bootstraps and superior will for cancer and MS too. Fine with me.

What have I learned? Change happen from the beginning of life to end. Vocational, spiritual, financial, health, mental state, relationships. Our failure to change with it directs us away from happiness and fulfillment. We are neither born with nor taught in advance how to make these changes effectively. Help is available if we look for it.

You are doing that. Congratulations.

shoprat
02-20-2008, 12:59 PM
thanks to every ones help and encouragement. i hope i didnt depress anybody!i think when the meds kick in that it will clear up my head so i can make some good decisions.but i still think i would like to try something else,but who knows.it could just help me to see that its not as bad as it seems and that i have a lot to be thankful for. thanks again for your support,it meens alot.

oil mac
02-20-2008, 04:47 PM
Hello Shoprat,
Sorry to hear of your problems, Certainly not nice a position to be in, especially when the depression sets in which seems to compound the misery, I have on a couple of instances been down that road and from my own perspective, you have my sympathy, Do exactly as the doctor tells you, that is important This story might be of interest. Many years ago when the firm i worked in, ( and felt dedicated to) closed down it co-incided with a period when i was physically not in the best shape and to make things worse i was looking after my ill father,( mother and i were about round the twist !) Then i had a broken romance that was the last straw which brought on a bought of depression, which led to a period where i found myself greatly questioning my ability, this is something you must watch out for. some year later on, after two or three quite reasonable jobs i went to work in a large outfit , which will remain nameless We got a new departmental head, who was an absolute swine to everyone in the section, and really victimised many good people in the team, till they all left, Father died and he started on me, when i was at my weakest subsequently i was gone and ended up in a different line of work, more pleasant all round What i am aiming to say in all this "there is frequently other avenues for you".

Through out your post i get the feeling you are an asset to the people you work for and usually in this situation you will find you are taken for granted, anyone who is multi skilled like yourself should be looked after, as you are a scarce commodity! I am glad you posted your problem, as it will be a bad day when the other mechanical brethern arent able to lend some support,

Have you any hobbies, my little machine shop at home is where i regain my sanity, Like yourself over the years being amongst dirt and grease etc. did eventually take its toll At middle age it was a bit wearing
Now i hope things work out for you, let us all know how things are You hang in there

Mad Scientist
02-20-2008, 05:04 PM
Allow me add my 2 cents here and take a different course. I agree with A.K. Boomer you first want to make sure you do not have any health issues. While this may offend some here let me say that I do not have a lot of confidence in conventional doctors. If you fall down and break an arm or leg then yes they the ones to go to, but beyond that in my opinion they are basically pill pushers. You say you got a headache, you’re told to take an aspirin. You’re depressed than take an anti-depressant. But a headache or depression are just symptoms of a problem and just making the symptoms go away does not cure the problem.

Personally I would be extremely reluctant to take an anti-depressant considering that the standard ones typically come with a warning that they can cause suicidal behavior.
If you are truly depressed then having a doctor who would consider prescripting a pill that can cause you to be suicidal now that is a really depressing thought.

No one here can tell you what you must or should do. But I would try to find a doctor that deals in natural medicine. They try to find and fix what is wrong with you rather then just give you some pills and tell you to come back in two weeks.

.RC.
02-20-2008, 05:12 PM
I want to be a lingerie fitter in a lingerie shop...One day maybe :D

Rustybolt
02-20-2008, 06:54 PM
Happiness isn't something you get out of a job. It's something you bring to it.

oldtiffie
02-20-2008, 07:58 PM
I want to be a lingerie fitter in a lingerie shop...One day maybe :D

Eunuchs only need apply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

PS - the UNIX OS scares me.

GKman
02-20-2008, 09:33 PM
Personally I would be extremely reluctant to take an anti-depressant considering that the standard ones typically come with a warning that they can cause suicidal behavior.
If you are truly depressed then having a doctor who would consider prescripting a pill that can cause you to be suicidal now that is a really depressing thought.

.
Drug companies report side effects that are very rare for product liability reasons. A thousand really screwed up kids get help from taking a medication, a bunch of them don't and one jumps off a bridge. Which sells more newspapers? I quickly got these from the manufactures. If a warning says "Don't wear loose clothing while operating machinery and you think that applys to a TV remote, you might want to do a little more research.

Prozac
Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24; there was a reduction in risk with antidepressants compared to placebo…


1. Antidepressant medicines may increase suicidal thoughts or actions in some children, teenagers, and young adults within the first few months of treatment.

2. Depression and other serious mental illnesses are the most important causes of suicidal thoughts and actions.

WELLBUTRIN XL or any other antidepressant in a child, adolescent, or young adult must balance this risk with the clinical need. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24;

Cymbalta

* Suicide is a known risk of depression and some other psychiatric disorders.
* Antidepressants may increase suicidal thoughts or behaviors in some children, adolescents, and young adults especially within the first few months of treatment or when changing the dose. No increased risk has been shown for adults over age 24, and risk decreased for those over age 65.

darryl
02-20-2008, 10:02 PM
Winchman touched on something wihich is of great value in battling depression- learning. That's one thing that really helps me keep out of the low track. I love to learn things, especially when I can use the information or knowledge right away. If nothing else, it's at least a doorway to something outside of the closed loop.

I was born with an insatiable curiosity, and when I'm at a point in a project where that isn't being fed, the project is no longer interesting. Many times I won't complete them, and it may be true that the joy I got out of doing the project to that point is mostly what its value was. It may also be true that as I fail to perceive a value in something, I lose the interest. Loss of interest is a downer, and leads to depression.

I said my 'failure to perceive the value'- which implies that there may be a value still- usually that is still the case. It's a matter of taking a fresh look at the situation, from a perspective that doesn't allow the negative aspects to overshadow the positive aspects. It's a mental stretch to cause oneself to look at something from a different angle, but it's not impossible and it's good for you in much the same way that a physical stretch is. It helps to expand beyond the normal range of motion physically, and the same is true mentally.

Even if 'that's all there is', there is still value in it, and fulfillment yet. The challenge is to find it, and the challenge can be fun. I might suggest to consider the whole process that has led you to this point as a learning experience, and take a leap from there.

Speaking of learning, it seems to me that many people who are depressed or have gone through periods of depression have brought themselves through it by learning about it. A large factor may be the perception of self-worth. When one learns that you can change your mind about how you feel, and that you will feel better when you see yourself in a more positive light, you can know that it takes little more than just that to improve your outlook. Just exercise your will, and control your own mood. It's free, takes no energy to implement, and is such a strong force in anyones life. Maybe look for something to read that deals with willpower, or motivation. Much of this is probably crap, but some of it is genuine and can get you thinking on a better path. You pick the book, consider what it offers with an open mind, and reject the garbage. Adopt what you can use.

To borrow a bit from what someone else has said, don't be thinking that you need the doctors to prescribe the cures for your downcast- that is precisely the kind of thing they really can't help you with. You do need them for the broken arms, operations, etc- fine. When you're in serious pain you need a painkiller, fine. Real medical conditions, not self-imposed illnesses. Pills for this kind of thing? Not for me. My opinion of course, shared by some others also.

Before I make a book out of this posting, let me suggest one more thing that has been of great value to me, physically, mentally, and spiritually. Meditation. I'm not talking about mumbling mantras, chanting imotep, imotep :rolleyes:, etc- I'm talking about the art of lessening the stress that accumulates in your body and mind. It is possible to learn how to do that, and it can be surprisingly envigorating. It's probably worth it to take a course and be taught by a professional so that you don't get off on the wrong foot. It's not a requirement to have candles, mystic music, incence- just someone who knows how to actually meditate and can teach you how to as well. You might be surprised how quickly a glum outlook on things can change.

wierdscience
02-20-2008, 10:40 PM
Ahhhh.. it happens to all of us.My job is something different everyday,but after awhile there is little that's truly new under the sun.8:00 might be cuttings driveshaft,9:30 might be welding 10:00 might be grinding some extruder dies 1:00 might be wrenching on a forklift.All those are jobs I have done 1,000s of times in the last 18 years,only things that change are the faces that own them and the cost/profit ratio.Occasionally something new comes along that makes everything look different.Occasionally I get to design and build from the floor up a complete machine or set of fixtures,or possibly rebuild a machine from scratch.Those blend with the rest to mae life worth livivng so far as work goes.

Okay time for something serious:D

The parable of the bird:

Oneday there sat a Robin on a tree limb in the north,the first frost was on the ground and the Robin said to himself-"Gee,you know I might should start flying south for the winter soon"
A week later he awoke to find snow on the ground so he left flying south.
He flew a few miles and got so cold that his wings froze and he fell from the sky straight through the open door of a barn right in a steaming pile of cow s---.
"Oh@%#*(!@#$% !" he said "I got off to a late start,nearly froze to death and now I am stuck in this s---!I may as well give up and die!" and with that he fell asleep.
The s--- it turns out was warm and it thawed him out and he woke up warm as toast and ready to continue-"gee" he said "If I could only get ot of this mess I am in I think I can still make it"

Just then he spotted a large tomcat walking through the barn and he cried out to him saying "help me please,pull me out and I will be so greatful".

So the tomcat obliged and pulled him out and then promptly cleaned him off and ate him.

This story has three morals-

#1 Don't put off till tomorrow what you should be doing today.
#2 Things are never as bad as they could be.And finally....
#3 When you up to your neck in s---,sometimes it's best to keep your head up and your mouth shut:D:D

oldtiffie
02-20-2008, 10:54 PM
This all started with a simple question from Lane at:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=27643
which started on the 18th. and went for 4 pages and 35 posts to Lane's simple question:


When your get up and go has got up and went. How do you get it back.
I have spent the last couple of weekends in the shop but havent done a thing just go out and sit. Have plenty of projects to work on . Need to get started on a hot air engine I have had plans for for ten years . Want to build Jerrys Howells V twin need to do more worK on my Tool &Cutter grinder.
Just cant get going. I have all the time I need I just dont have the get up to go. I have spent every week end sence christmas just looking at it and moving things around. But can`t seem to get started on a good project.Any one got any ideas.

This had developed a momentum and a life of its own. Its just "snow-balling"!

I have never seen such a lot of sad souls, "Agony Aunts" and "Dorothy Dix"-ers (OZ term) in my life.

It sounds like the HSM version of the ubiquitous "Woman's Mag" - maybe VP should publish one - going by this lot, it should be a roaring success.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advice_column

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Agony+Aunt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Dix

Mad Scientist
02-20-2008, 11:03 PM
Drug companies report side effects that are very rare for product liability reasons. Right. Certainly wouldn’t to be sued by the parents of the kids that were shot at NIU or Virginia Tech. A thousand really screwed up kids get help from taking a medication, a bunch of them don't and one jumps off a bridge. Maybe. But rather then drugging them into submission if they were given decent counseling then perhaps that one wouldn’t jump off the bridge. But that would take some real work it’s so much easier to just jam a pill down their throat. Which sells more newspapers? I quickly got these from the manufactures. If a warning says "Don't wear loose clothing while operating machinery and you think that applys to a TV remote, you might want to do a little more research. Actually I have done a lot of research. As I spend a lot of time in health forums and the one thing that quickly become apparent is that the drug companies are first and foremost only concerned about their bottom line, with the exception of the usual propaganda about patient safety it is never that high on the list.

You of course are free to believe whatever you want.
But from the research that I have done I would not trust a drug companies claims any further then I could throw a 200# anvil.

darryl
02-21-2008, 12:46 AM
'such a lot of sad souls'- I think by and large our typical person here is a creative and industrious type, a little off the beaten track, inventive, aware, caring and helpful- it doesn't surprise me at all that many of us have these 'problems'. Sometimes it's out of a funk that a project is born or an idea is spawned. Being capable on the mechanical and material side of things might be matched by a lesser capabilty on the emotional and rational side of things. Not to say that we're insane, but sometimes we do things that may not seem all that sensible to others (those that don't understand our passions) We're mostly Van Goghs, though we don't all have tinnitis. We have swings in creativity and in our responsiveness to the world around us. We're dynamic. Bloody 'el.

I can be happier than many people at times, and also bluer, it seems. I don't know that I'd want either extreme to be brought closer to 'neutral'.

Sometimes I think that these 'down times' are a clue that we should be looking to delve into something else. I don't mean quitting a job or whatever, just endeavering to encompass another facet- whatever that might be or mean.

A.K. Boomer
02-21-2008, 09:43 AM
I can be happier than many people at times, and also bluer, it seems. I don't know that I'd want either extreme to be brought closer to 'neutral'.

Sometimes I think that these 'down times' are a clue that we should be looking to delve into something else. I don't mean quitting a job or whatever, just endeavering to encompass another facet- whatever that might be or mean.


Forgive me for quoting immediately after your post but what wise words these are, what incredible insight ---- its taken along time in life for me to accept what you just wrote, then I really started putting two and two together in retrospect, I partied my ass off as a kid, I juggled girlfriends around and drank like a fish, I had tons of fun and didnt really learn a thing, laughter is great but its really no teacher, it took me along time to realize that it was in the down times that I made amazing progress in personal growth --- Like you stated above, please please please dont take away my highs and lows, knowing what i know now I welcome the lows, its a time to park the ferrari in the garage and take all the info from the last race and put it into suspension tuning, porting and polishing, and sync/dialing in all twelve carbs -- For me -- its great to finally realize this --- Im not a kid anymore, I dont drive the hell out of me without thinking, I pay the price and learn from it, dont have to be on the race track all the time, on the track with no maintenance and not even taking note on how to better "hold a turn"
The garage door will open again, The beast will come out, and it will run a much smarter race than its last, As for some of the fellow racers who didnt play very well or stick to the rules (it always happens in the game of life)
I thank you for the rocket propellant :D Life's an attitude:cool:

66glide
02-21-2008, 02:09 PM
Can't remember where I read this but...in a worldwide survey of happiness, the vast majority of people who described themselves as "happy" were in the poorest ****hole third world countries. I think in the Western nations the number was only about 28%. Perhaps in our quest of always looking for more, we forget about the basics that we take for granted, and which we already have! Sometimes in my whiny, gloomy, depressed moods, I gotta give my head a shake and think of what I do have. Right now it's my health, family, shelter, enough to eat, and a business that pays me well. (even if I've lost some of my passion for it.....)

GKman
02-21-2008, 03:18 PM
You of course are free to believe whatever you want.
But from the research that I have done I would not trust a drug companies claims any further then I could throw a 200# anvil.

Mad,
Whatever works for you. Have a great day.

Evan,
see how easy these things can be settled if we just remember what Captain Kangaroo taught us. "Be nice". Have a great day.
GKman :)

Allan Waterfall
02-21-2008, 03:55 PM
I want to be a lingerie fitter in a lingerie shop...One day maybe :D Once I retired I said that there isn't a job that pays enough to get me back to work,now you've come up with one.:D

Allan

loosescrewmt
02-21-2008, 09:54 PM
It's a bit frustrating dealing with depression, but I'll throw my vote in w/ the drugs- they do work. As to the increased risk of suicide- look at it in this light. When you start on any of the current medications, they will ramp up the dose over several weeks (up to 12 or even longer dep on drug and dose) and it can take several weeks longer than that for the drugs to become effective. Most of the info I've seen about the suicides indicated they occured shortly after treatment was started and likely before the drugs had reached a thereputic level. Couple that with the already fluctuating levels of critical nerotransmitters in the still developing brain, and it's going to be difficult at best to gain an effective, reletively short term solution.
I've been living with depression for about 15 years now, and read far too much research on the drugs...but they do work, at least for me.

Something else that helps- find something to laugh at every day, it's not all that difficult and it's cheap therapy.

Mad Scientist
02-21-2008, 10:15 PM
Mad,
Whatever works for you. Have a great day.

Evan,
see how easy these things can be settled if we just remember what Captain Kangaroo taught us. "Be nice". Have a great day.
GKman :)


On that we agree.:)
Although we may disagree on the value of “anti-depressants” I have always been interested in the opinions of others, as it is an excellent way to learn new ideas.