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John Stevenson
02-19-2008, 05:09 PM
Well the first of the Chinese turnkey mills has landed in the UK.
This is a production model of what is called the KX1, very similar to the one we developed for them last year and was posted on these pages.

Pic's to follow as dumkoff here forgot to take his camera with him and the importer is sending some of his on.

Went down to Leicester today to the importers to check it out, write the config file and do some test cutting.

In line with another project of some cheap CAM software [ more within two weeks ] I decided to program the loco wheel we have cut previously but with one difference.

In the past we cut this with two cutters, a 6mm one and a 3mm one to cut out the spokes.
This time I decided to change the last cutter for a 10 degree tapered end mill from J&L to give a taper to the spokes as in real life.

10 Degrees was chosen because it was the only one I had to hand !

In the rush to throw everything in the Donald what was needed, vise, chuck, collet chuck, rev counters etc I sawed two slices off a piece of 3" bar and shot off.

Got to Leicester, came to face them up on the shop lathe because I was running late and found I had sawn two slices off a bar of 304 stainless instead of mild steel !!
I thought steel was going to be enough of a test for a light machine such as the KX1, let alone 304.

Edited the speeds and feeds and dropped down from the proposed 2,000 rpm 1.5mm depth of cut and a feed of 170mm/min to a conservative 1,600 rpm, 1.0mm depth and a feed of 90mm/min.
The first cutter was a Chinese 6mm TiN coated HSS straight off the shelf, the second was a 3/32, 10 degree plain HSS.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/sswheel1.jpg

Straight off the machine, no deburring or cleaning up other than an air blast.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/sswheel2.jpg

There is a vibration in the root caused by the amount off cutter in the cut as it changes direction. Some software can compensate for this and slow down in corners, this cheaper one can't but they will soon polish out.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/sswheel3.jpg


Taken from a different angle and the tapered spokes look quite pleasing, cut using Mach3 with a cutting time of 1 hour 37 minutes according to the screen.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/sswheel4.jpg

Rear view showing the wider spokes at the rear.

Although I forgot my camera we did take video of it cutting and once edited I shall upload some to You Tube. Amongst the shots we took there were some of the initial cutting with 6mm cutter and shots of the cutter after the operation, screen shot of Mach and final screen shots showing elapsed time.

To be updated as pics and links come in.

.

JCHannum
02-19-2008, 05:28 PM
That is very interesting, and a nice looking job.

I think it is a look into the future of model engineering. As the cost of castings is approaching astronomical proportions (I recently looked at the latest price list for Stuart Models), and CNC programs and affordable machines are becoming available, full programs for models from barstock will begin to appear.

Peter N
02-19-2008, 05:30 PM
John, have they got the KX3 in yet, or only the KX1?
I presume it's all with Ketan at AET?

Peter

John Stevenson
02-19-2008, 05:46 PM
John, have they got the KX3 in yet, or only the KX1?
I presume it's all with Ketan at AET?

Peter
Peter,
Only the KX1 at present and only one of those as it was air freighted in.
It's destined to be delivered sometime this week now it been OK'd to David Clarke the editor of MEW who is writing the machine manual for the Chinese.
We insited that it had a manual written in English for the UK and US markets.
Davids background before retiring was in CNC milling.

Orders have been placed for both KX1's and KX3's and Ketan is going to China again this Saturday.
I am not going on this trip but will be at the Canton fair in April again.

Because of the time scale he's going to see about getting a KX1 and KX3 shipped direct to me by air so we have them for the Harrogate show at the beginning of May.

And before any of the US readers ask yes one of your big machine sellers is in talks with Sieg at this time but I can't say more as it's not my place, I'm only UK tech based.

JC,
That is exactly my sentiments and I said as much to David Clark about 4 months ago.
I did a Harley badge probably about two years ago, I never actually cut it, just coded it.

Since then I bet I have been asked for this code about 12 or 15 times and it's not advertised or made public. Evan has cut one, as has Eddie at Motorworks.

The locowheel is on two websites as I know as they have asked permission, how many haven't ? and will feature as a tutorial in a low cost CAM program soon to be announced.

.

S_J_H
02-19-2008, 07:33 PM
Looks great John! I am very pleased to see cnc machining beginning to gain more acceptance with this forum/members and becoming a more common thread as THE "super seniors" such as yourself, Evan and a few others post more and more about the subject.
I have friends in production shops with the huge mega dollar machines. But as far as HSM projects go forget it. No interest, just about cranking out parts to pay the bills and I understand that.
This is all just a hobby for me. So I enjoy HSM related cnc subject matter.
Keep it coming!
Steve

Smokedaddy
02-19-2008, 10:14 PM
... approximatly how much are we talking about?

Thanks for the report,
-SD:

John Stevenson
02-20-2008, 04:19 AM
SD,
As regards costing I have no idea.
Our UK importer is going to China this weekend to sort out the UK side.

None of this will have any bearing on US prices as this will be fixed by your importers working with Seig and is usually very different from UK pricing given exchane rates and the larger market.

Sorry I can't be more helpful but I take no part in these matters, my input is technical hence not going on this trip.

One thing I can say is these, if shipped as ours was, are complete in the box, they even supplied the parallel cable from the machine to the computer.
All that is needed is to load the software, supplied on a CD, into the machine and it will be ready to run.

.

John Stevenson
02-20-2008, 03:32 PM
First edit of the movies of the stainless loco wheel.

http://www.badadam.co.uk/kx1/index.html

Three formats available.

.

BobWarfield
02-20-2008, 07:29 PM
It's kind of amazing when you think about it that such a thing can be had for the home. I remember hearing about home computers for the first time in the 70's when I was in high school. Just blew my mind, and resulted in an entire career for me and a very successful industry.

Somehow I think CNC at home has the potential to be really big. There are some missing pieces yet, but it's really getting interesting. Once these turnkey machines get cheap, I think the next area that needs work is the software. There's some tolerable stuff out, but it needs work to enable more people to play.

Best,

BW

oldtiffie
02-20-2008, 07:50 PM
It's kind of amazing when you think about it that such a thing can be had for the home. I remember hearing about home computers for the first time in the 70's when I was in high school. Just blew my mind, and resulted in an entire career for me and a very successful industry.

Somehow I think CNC at home has the potential to be really big. There are some missing pieces yet, but it's really getting interesting. Once these turnkey machines get cheap, I think the next area that needs work is the software. There's some tolerable stuff out, but it needs work to enable more people to play.

Best,

BW

Thanks Bob.

You have very neatly summarised my outlook as regards "Turn-key CNC" in and for the HSM-er.

The Seig is my first choice thus far based on the excellent thread and posts to it that John Stevenson posted on it some months ago.

Many thanks John.

I like the idea of a 4x ......... machine as well.

I am thinking of mounting a mini/micro? lathe on the Seig 4x so that I can use the Seig "X" and "Y" for work on the lathe.

As a not unrelated effort, referring to the "Camera on a Mill" thread, I was thinking of using the camera on the Seig and "plotting" the "shape/s" I require given the magnification factor on the Webcam and entering it into the CNC and perhaps "joining the dots" in the resultant CNC code. I need to think a bit (a lot?) more about that aspect.

I see no need to replace my current machines - I will just have to find space in the shop for the Seig.

On another matter, as I have to put a computer into the shop to use the webcam on the mill, it seems that mach3 requires a parallel port outlet, but many computers now don't have them. Do the USB>Parallel cards or the USB>Parallel adaptors work well enough for Mach3 and CNC?

Many thanks.

QSIMDO
02-20-2008, 08:23 PM
Work on making the technology more user friendly, and not just for knowledgable users either.

What with the camera/cell phone/VFD/TV/iPod/programmable thermostat/DVD player/electronic fuel injection, etc. I'm feeling pretty darn irrelavent.

I need something that says "draw this, chuck up that metal, throw that switch and how's yer Mum?"

oldtiffie
02-20-2008, 08:55 PM
Work on making the technology more user friendly, and not just for knowledgable users either.

What with the camera/cell phone/VFD/TV/iPod/programmable thermostat/DVD player/electronic fuel injection, etc. I'm feeling pretty darn irrelavent.

I need something that says "draw this, chuck up that metal, throw that switch and how's yer Mum?"

Hi Len.

Despite all of the "hype" what you want to do is going to be here for a long time yet. That is why I am not giving up my current machines as I am comfortable with them - very.

They are very accurate and reliable and are known quantities - and I can fix them. Electronics are pretty well a complete mystery to me. They require a lot of things with high-risk failures not all that far away and all too frequent - mostly.

I haven't got around to fitting a DRO yet - I have some very good ones still in their boxes. I don't have a VFD and can't see that I really need one.

I am from the "steam radio" era and can see no real need to change.

CNC is a "dip the toe in and feel the water" effort.

I just like to try things and explore the use of processes and methods.

A lot - most if not all really - of the stuff I "make" has no useful purpose at all other than to hone a skill or two and perhaps try a new meethod or approach to doing something that just gets "junked" or returned to the "might come in useful" pile.

I like to keep my logic and skills up to date so far as I can.

There is stuff in my shop that has mushrooms growing in the iron oxide - well not quite but almost.

I admire what other people either do or aspire to do.

I am happy with my lot.

Smokedaddy
02-20-2008, 09:39 PM
SD,
As regards costing I have no idea.


Thanks John ... sure looks interesting to me. If affordable to a HSM then I am totally interested.

-SD: