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tfleegal
02-20-2008, 03:03 PM
I kinda Lucked out again. I think
A Delta 24-105 Toolmaker Surface grinder, a Delta 7" shaper, an old anvil, and a 3 ton Dake press followed me home last weekend. I have the shaper up and running fine. The surface grinder is just about re-assembled. The old Gentleman that I bought it from, gave me a rockwell box - said it is another table for the grinder, and it goes with it. Last night I opened the box???? to my surprise I found what I believe is the toolmaker attachment with the pair of centers, and all the hardware and some extra wheel covers new in the box. I searched and searched for instructions for the attachment to no avail. I did find the 7 page manual for the grinder, but am wondering if there is an instruction set for the "toolmaker attachment". Any help would be appreciated.

thanks

Terry

pcarpenter
02-20-2008, 05:29 PM
I was lucky enough when I got my 24-151 ( the newer version of the same grinder) that I got the toolmaker attachment with centers, the Unihead and the Univise. I even got the center-mist attachment. I too would love to know if there was any more documentation that went with any of this. I think I read somewhere a reference to an instruction sheet for the center-mist coolant unit, which to me implies that there might have been some more info available.

However, I am not holding much hope about the usefulness of any more documentation. The 7-pager you referenced on the 24-150 is a good example....not a lot there. Of course, I don't expect a treatise on cutter grinding any more than I would expect an "everything you need to know about woodworking" book to come with a table saw.

Still, I would love to find an actual instruction manual for my newer model grinder. What I do have that has pictures and part numbers is a .pdf copy of the "catalog" that is just a few pages showing the various bits and pieces that go with it. Its no instruction manual however.

Paul

oldtiffie
02-20-2008, 05:31 PM
Very fortunate indeed.

A few pics would help a lot.

pcarpenter
02-20-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't know if I have any pictures of mine or not. Thanks go to Evan, however for pointing out the value of the Foxit PDF editor which will let you grab a snapshot off of a .pdf file. This picture is from the catalog pdf I mentioned.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n16/pfcarpenter/Machinery/RockwellDelta24-151.jpg

gzig5
02-20-2008, 06:02 PM
Terry,
I don't know what you paid, but I'd say you lucked out.

I've been looking for the toolmaker's table for mine and I think they are near unobtainium seperately. I refuse to pay more for the table than I have in the whole grinder. I've resigned myself to having to make a copy of some sort.

I don't have the manual but may know where to get one. I'll get back to you if I come up with anything.

Greg

oldtiffie
02-20-2008, 06:12 PM
OK.

We seem to be talking about Tool & Cutter grinding here - the image on the previous post is a Tool and Cutter grinder - which can be used as a very good surface grinder.

The centres can be made from a couple of tail-stocks from a lathe or tail stocks from a Dividing Head or Rotary Table. Or you can make a set in your shop.

These links might clarify what the centres can be used for:
http://www.chitseng.com/product2.htm

http://www.chitseng.com/product5.htm

pcarpenter
02-20-2008, 06:22 PM
The reason for the adjunct table for use with the centers on that particular grinder is that if you tried to use the centers on the standard table, you wouldn't be able to hold anything of any length (think of say grinding a reamer). The standard table area is just big enough on mine to barely squeeze in a 6x12 magnetic chuck. In fact, they recommend only a 5x10 chuck. Take out for the bases on two rotary table or lathe tailstocks and you could only hold a piece maybe an inch or so long.

The "toolmaker attachement" sits where the magnetic chuck would mount and is much wider, allowing for quite a bit more room between centers.

I do agree that something like this could be made. It is in effect a large, carefully finished piece of cast iron with one T-slot down the center. It does also have a graduated protractor on it, but that can't be precise enough for tool grinding anyway. It does also have a couple of screws to adjust this angle and lock it....but they are just that....screws with a t-handle.

Paul

oldtiffie
02-20-2008, 11:32 PM
There is no need to go to a lot of trouble or expense with this.

All that is required is 2 centres (or balls) at the same centre height to locate and support the work-piece.

The centers can be anything in the shop.

I have included a pic with/of the general principles required.

I prefer the spring-loaded (only 1 required - the other can be "fixed) centres/work-supports with the ball ends which locate in the centre/s of the work-piece.

If the centres are out of line it doesn't matter as the balls will take care of that.

To set up for parallel grinding, just make a test piece from say drill rod (3/4" or there-abouts will be fine - or just a bit of cold-rolled will do too). But do first drill the centre holes in each end then finish off the 60 degree internal taper with a boring bar - with the test piece as true in the lathe as you can get it (centre drills can "wander off" too - just like ordinary drill - a bit less perhaps but a "wander-off" never the less).

At least one of the washers on the screws in the "angle-ends" can be a spring-washer as it will allow for a "nipping-up" and final adjustment before finally "tightening-up" (not too much please).

To adjust, just use a light hammer or block of bronze ("dolly") or your friendly "dead-blow" hammer. You are not knocking in bridge or rail-way spikes here - just take it easy.

I know it looks "as rough as guts" - maybe so - but it WILL work just as well as the "store-bought" item.

You may alter the sketch to suit yourself.

The job will be a success when it works.

And yes, you can even use the "Sine Bar" you made (previous post) as well to set up angles etc.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Work-centres1.jpg

JCHannum
02-21-2008, 08:29 AM
Here are two links that might help;

http://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Parts-Lists/Rockwell-Delta-Toolmaker-Tool-and-Cutter-Grinding-Machine-PM-408-01-651-5003-08-15-67.pdf

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2003_retired_files/Rockwell-24-105-OperatingInstructions.pdf

pcarpenter's photo shows the table installed. It is quite simple, I have had a couple and thought I had kept the installation instructions but cannot locate them. Rockwell manuals are a model of brevity and usually say something like "Bolt in place. Turn machine on."

If you do not have it, I do recommend John Stevenson's CD on T&C grinding. The Toolmaker is a great machine for the home shop.

john hobdeclipe
02-21-2008, 10:56 AM
The owwm.com site has some info on the Delta Toolmaker grinder, just go to their Delta pages and look through the list of documents.

Trouble is, they are having some major troubles with their site, and it was still down just now as I wrote this, and the manufacturer's index etc. are temporarily unavailable.

I have a Toolmaker here, still waiting for me to get off my butt and clean it up and get it running. If you need any pix or measurements from mine. let me know.

tfleegal
02-21-2008, 12:15 PM
Paul, Greg, oldtiffie John Jim;

Thanks for the input. The file for the newer model has more info than the 7 page from the older version - thanks. I will try the Owwm? website every now and then. I googled Delta and it came up yesterday, when I tried to go to the link the site was down. I'll keep trying.

I hope to get some help lifting the grinder assembly in place this Sunday, and complete the reassembly so I can try it out, and I will try to take pictures and post then later.

Greg how does $650.00 for the grinder,shaper,press and anvil sound???( a magnetic vise was included with the grinder and a box with 8 or so grinding wheels, and the shaper was complete with vise and handles and toolbit holder.

Paul, If you could, send me the pdf of all the attachments that you mentioned, I will compair the pictures to what I have in the Box with the toolmakers table.

One of my friends said: I should be arrested for robbery, But Hey, the seller was very happy too.:)
Thanks for the replies, I try to get photos this weekend.

Terry

gzig5
02-21-2008, 02:04 PM
Greg how does $650.00 for the grinder,shaper,press and anvil sound???( a magnetic vise was included with the grinder and a box with 8 or so grinding wheels, and the shaper was complete with vise and handles and toolbit holder.


Terry

You are killing me!!! Where do you live? Can I come over and borrow your shaper?

Marty Escarcega
10-20-2008, 09:47 PM
I hope this is allowed but a new yahoogroup has been formed specifically for the users of the Walker Turner, Delta Milwaukee, Rockwell Toolmaker Grinder
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/toolmakergrinder/

Its hoped that it becomes a central repository for these old grinders.
Marty