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View Full Version : Advice needed. What would you do?



KiddZimaHater
02-20-2008, 09:15 PM
Hey guys,
I'm in career-choice dilema.
I was offered a job with the Air Force, on base, as a civilian machinist.
Here's the poop:
A) Currently working for a production shop.
Good Side: Making about 57,000 per year. Easy work. Basically my own boss. I've been there 10 years. 3 weeks paid vacation.
Bad Side: TERRIBLE Health Insurance plan for my family. Poor management. Broken-down machines. No tooling. Disorganized. No future. I've stopped learning new things.
B) Job opening with the Air Force.
Good Side: Pay increase. Health Insurance for my family. Ability to transfer to other cities. Full Retirement benefits. Permanent employment.
Bad Side: The unknown..??? Risk of losing my current cushy job. Asshole Boss??
Sheesh....
Decisions, Decisions.
What would you do?
Any advice is appreciated.

JoeFin
02-20-2008, 09:29 PM
Got Kids?

Jump on the health insurance

HSS
02-20-2008, 09:47 PM
I agree with Joefin, go with the insurance. You don't know about the boss good or bad. Besides, couldn't you use more money?:rolleyes:

kendall
02-20-2008, 09:59 PM
Agree, insurance trumps most other things, better pay is a bonus, and learning new things is always good.

Besides, you can always punch the boss.

Ken.

J Tiers
02-20-2008, 10:44 PM
"permanent"?

Maybe........ at least until the next BRAC cycle. Then you may be looking at a relocation to keep your "permanent" job......

CCWKen
02-20-2008, 10:49 PM
Insurance or not, that's a no brainer. My sister just retired from civil service after 31 years. Her last 25+ years was with the Air Force and you couldn't ask for a better bunch. In Colorado Springs no less. The only problems I see is mostly political tug-a-war on base closings vs. build-up. But once you're in there's a lot of places to go. And unless there's some total annihilation of the US, retirees get a steady income. That's far from guaranteed with a corporation or company; even when it's your money in the fund.

kc5ezc
02-20-2008, 10:53 PM
Kidd: I spent 30 years as an AF civilian. Excellent retirement, and insurance.
Good jobs whereever I wanted to go. Just had to pick my time for the transfer.
Moved to management when I found out that pushing paper pays a lot more.
John Burchett
in Byng OK

Oldbrock
02-21-2008, 01:57 AM
Jump ship now. The health insurance alone should be enough incentive, more pay and pension. I see only one desenting vote. Go for it.Peter

Your Old Dog
02-21-2008, 06:26 AM
It's funny how familiarity can hold us back much like the little string on an elephants two legs. Fear of the unknown is a powerful force, even when the unknown is utopia. If you don't take a step to try and improve your situation you can always spend a lifetime asking yourself what if? Go for it. Desire and ambition will take you places fear could never get for you.

Once read that worry, fear, anger, guilt and vengeance are the 5 debilitating emotions. Just knowing that can make quite a difference in ones life. Good luck.

ahidley
02-21-2008, 07:43 AM
Take the AF job.,... I've been a civilian for the Army for 20 years.... I do know that if someone has any type of police/legal penalties/incarceration, that AFTER the background check is complete they will be let go or if they find out prior to hiring they will not be hired....

J Tiers
02-21-2008, 08:00 AM
I see only one desenting vote.

That's funny, I don't see ANY dissenting votes...... my neighbor is a purchasing agent at Scott AFB......

BRAC is the only big thing that stands as a hazard. That is a few less than in commercial (aka "productive") employment.

My point was that "permanent" may not be what it seems.

SGW
02-21-2008, 08:27 AM
It's insane that the kind and quality of your health insurance depends on who you work for.

But I'd agree; the AF job looks better. Even if you get caught by a base closing, there's something like a 3-year lead time between the announcement and the actual event, which would give quite a bit of time to figure out something else to do, if need be.

tony ennis
02-21-2008, 08:29 AM
Good Side: Pay increase. Health Insurance for my family. Ability to transfer to other cities. Full Retirement benefits. Permanent employment.

I would challenge you on any place offering 'permanent employment' but if you mean 'as stable as any other place' then that's ok. Are you young enough to qualify for the pension?


Bad Side: The unknown..???

You could win the lottery or get hit by a meteorite tomorrow. Don't worry about things you can't control.

From the information you posted, this is a complete no-brainer. The downside is you'll have to learn to do things the AF way, and you might actually get told what to do or how to do it. That's called being an employee!

I keep expecting Bill Murray to pop up and say, "Is this a trick question!" (a la Ghostbusters)

Your Old Dog
02-21-2008, 08:32 AM
It's insane that the kind and quality of your health insurance depends on who you work for.

Ain't that the truth? Here it's the same for car insurance, house insurance and pet insurance. It all depends on who you work for and how much you're willing to pay. It's getting harder and harder to get something for nothing.

ProGunOne
02-21-2008, 08:51 AM
I concur with the others. You'll really appreciate the importance of good health insurance when it is needed. Believe me. ;)

Evan
02-21-2008, 09:13 AM
It's very easy to stay in a rut since it is lower than the surrounding terrain. It does take some effort to climb out but the view is usually worth the effort.

smiller6912
02-21-2008, 09:39 AM
I can just about spit and hit Wright Paterson AFB from my front yard and, half the people that I know work there (including my wife, who by the way will be retiring next year at 56). I hear people say that the good part of a government job is, there is two things that they can't do to you: they can't fire you and they can't make you work....;)

rmancini
02-21-2008, 09:59 AM
Is the job Civil Service -OR- as a civilian contractor?
As a civil service employee, the benefits are in my estimation, unbeatable.
Are you going to start at a specific pay grade (IE: WG-10)?
If so, there will be loads of career oportunities open to you over the years.
I started my civil service career as a WG-10 in the early 70's at $5.59 /hr
(Big money back then) and ended up retiring as a GS13.
If the job is actually a contract position - forget the above! Your contractor employer will have their own pay scale and benefits (or lack thereof)
Rich

Pete H
02-21-2008, 10:21 AM
Rich's point is well-made: If YOU are the Civil Service employee, great; if you're a contractor or a contractor's employee, NOT great.

But if it IS Civil Service, and you can pass the background check, I'd say jump on it before someone else does. Decent health coverage and defined-benefit pensions are gettin' awful thin on the ground these days. Besides, it sounds like you're burned-out on the old job anyway.

Just my tuppeny'orth... Pete in NJ

KiddZimaHater
02-21-2008, 11:58 PM
Thanks for the great input, fellas.
I guess I just needed a little positive reinforcement.
Everyone I've talked to has said, "Go for it!"
I'm submiting my resume & application tomorrow.
I'll let you know how things turn out.
:)

Oldbrock
03-07-2008, 04:02 PM
So, did you get the job? we are all wondering. Peter

spope14
03-07-2008, 08:09 PM
Broken down machines, bad health insurance, terrible tools, your own boss....

sounds like your production company is being run into the ground and when it finally hits the dirt end, you are looking for new jobs anyway.

The air force has plenty of planes and the many more perepherials (thousands upon thousands of items that support each aircraft like jeeps, repair parts, on and on) and seems to be doing fairly well looking into the future.

TECHSHOP
03-07-2008, 09:07 PM
Better insurance (unless you and your family are planning to live "forever in good health"), location (short trips to work are better), and more $$$$ in the checks are mostly good.

Once at a local base, a young man (not me) was hired to work for a contractor on the base. He was told that company had a "six year" contract when he hired on. Was given a list of quite expensive required tools that he needed to own when started on the job. Five months later on payday he was told to "pack up", because the contact was over (They hired him after the workers for the first 5 1/2 years quit when they learned that the contract was not being "rebid"). Blindsided in the bright lights...

Having worked all three, Military, Big Gov, and "industry/private enterprise", nothing lasts "forever".

Was/is any of the three "better"; no, not really just "different".

mlucek
03-10-2008, 02:22 PM
It's funny how familiarity can hold us back much like the little string on an elephants two legs. Fear of the unknown is a powerful force, even when the unknown is utopia. If you don't take a step to try and improve your situation you can always spend a lifetime asking yourself what if? Go for it. Desire and ambition will take you places fear could never get for you.

Once read that worry, fear, anger, guilt and vengeance are the 5 debilitating emotions. Just knowing that can make quite a difference in ones life. Good luck. Nothing like a few sentences to really hit home for me :(

Left a job 10 years ago at age 37, full pension/benefits/vaca/etc. was there for almost 16 years (1st job outta college), but was so burned out on doing "same sh*t, different day" that I volunteered for the layoff. I was already working a job on the side, so in hindsight was a simple, yet profound life choice. 5 years later, after the independent contracting job ran out, another layoff from an Internet company when the bubble burst, I came back to the company where I started. 4 years later I have that same feeling I did when I left the 1st time - burned out, same old, same old, but with full pension again, full bennies/vaca/health coverage/etc.

I ran into an old work buddy a few months after I restarted - he jokingly said, "Have they beaten you back down yet ?", I told him, "Just about .... " :rolleyes: :D ironically I wasn't joking .....

Now that I'm not quite the youngster I was back then (ok, 46 ain't THAT old), I'm staring down early retirement at 55, that's only 9 years away. Those golden handcuffs (pension) are making it difficult to think about going anywhere else. Another company won't have that same pension, few do anymore anyway :(

A wiser, older guy told me some sage advice - switching to a different company would be more of the, "same sh*t, different place." He said to find a niche where you are at and find enjoyment there, just realize you have to put up with the same crap anywhere you go.


It's very easy to stay in a rut since it is lower than the surrounding terrain. It does take some effort to climb out but the view is usually worth the effort. How true is that ??

Great advice !!

Mike

jkilroy
03-10-2008, 04:52 PM
Is this just bragging or is there an actual decision to make here?

If your new employer even knew your were considering staying in your current situation they might re-think hiring you in the first place!