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John Stevenson
02-22-2008, 04:52 PM
Or at least two containers of goodies from China.
Most are stock items but I do get to pick over some of the samples that get sent.

Anyway came back tonight clutching three small wooden boxes in my hot sticky little mitts.

Box 1 contained a Z axis tool presetter, Used for touching off tools in a toolchanger on a CNC, interesting but need time to play with it.

Box 2 contained one of the newer Blake type indicators that are low profile.
Put to one side to have a play later.

Box 3 contained this:-

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/3dtester.jpg

It's called a 3D Taster, I thought it might be a miss print and be a 3D TEster but no a search on Ebay shows they are called 3D Tasters unless everyone including the Germans, can't spell.

Basically it's a finger type dial gauge but it works in all three axis and at the same time.

Looks neat so time for a play.

First thing, try the new co-ax out first. Stick a piece of machined tube in the chuck bolted to the bed of the Bridgy and center up by eye. Run the co-ax at about 100 rpm and adjust both axis to get the error out and zero the DRO.
Reasonably quick and being shorter it wasn't as much of a pain as the longer copy I built.

So now according to form the DRO is bang on.

Now stick the 3D unit in the collet. You leave these just as installed, you don't run the spindle or need to.

So it I touch off on both sides of the tube the DRO should read the same ?

No, I get an error and it reads 31.186mm one way and 31.192 the other way.
So touch off on one side and zero the DRO touch off on the other and it reads 62.378mm, halve this and I get 31.189mm

Do the same operation in the Y and again split the reading.

Now wind clear, wind up the bed and then go back to 0,0 and touch off.

Every quadrant reads 31.189mm repeatably.

Run along the vise jaws which were clocked in using a 0.001" gauge and I get the same reading both ends but a 0.02 mm bow in the center.

Run along the top of the vise jaws, something I have never checked before and it's a whopping 0.04 taper from one end to the other.

All this at the same setting, facing forward and checking X Y and Z.

Dead impressed with this, so easy to use and the accuracy beats anything else that's as easy to setup.

I need to make a toolpost mount so I can hold it on center pointing forward to set up motor end shields in the 4jaw which need to run true axially as well as vertically.

Only thing I can see wrong with this is this one has a 20mm spigot for holding, the German ones have a more useful 12mm size.

Need to speak nicely to the Chinese to come up with a smaller spigot.

.

Lew Hartswick
02-22-2008, 06:01 PM
John, Why is the pointer pointing down in the never never land
rather and at "0" ?
...lew...

japcas
02-22-2008, 06:46 PM
You deflect the probe on the bottom until the indicator needle is on zero. That's how you know it's moved to center.

toastydeath
02-22-2008, 07:27 PM
I have always wanted one of these. You are my hero just for having one.

Things like this make changing Z offsets on CNC controls ridiculously easy. Actually, just setup on CNC in general.

John Stevenson
02-22-2008, 07:27 PM
I'll tell you what, it's damn quick finding the edge of a piece of work.

You move the table and watch the needle until it's on zero and then add 1/2 the ball diameter, in this case 4mm so zero the readout then add 2mm.

Then move to the next edge and do the same.

Where it scores over a wiggler is you can see how close you are and if you overshoot you can see how much to back off and aproch again.

Once you get used to one it's usually a one shot move and quite quickly at that.

I reckon I can do two edges in the time it took me to do one edge with the wiggler.

.

sconisbee
02-22-2008, 07:35 PM
I'll tell you what, it's damn quick finding the edge of a piece of work.


Awww man! now its just something else i need to add to the shopping list!!!, always wondered how good those things were. now that really would be faster than a coax...which still hasn't arrived:mad:

wierdscience
02-22-2008, 10:47 PM
Okay,now how much?

toastydeath
02-23-2008, 12:20 AM
Brand new they run about five hundred. Or more, if you get a good brand.

jh
02-23-2008, 02:02 AM
Hi John,
I do think you will like the taster I sure like mine. Two things though, I'm pretty sure you don't need to add or subtract the ball dia. at least I don't need to on my german made one when the needle is at zero you are at spindle center line for that axis and the germans told me the taster means gauge in germany so that then made sense also. Have fun James Helmuth

Ian B
02-23-2008, 03:30 AM
John,

Just on why it's called a 'taster' - it's from the German word 'tasten' which means to feel or touch.

I just knew you were a touchy, feely kind of guy...

Ian

John Stevenson
02-23-2008, 05:36 AM
Hi John,
I do think you will like the taster I sure like mine. Two things though, I'm pretty sure you don't need to add or subtract the ball dia. at least I don't need to on my german made one when the needle is at zero you are at spindle center line for that axis and the germans told me the taster means gauge in germany so that then made sense also. Have fun James Helmuth

James,
You are right that you don't have to subtract the ball diameter when doing bores or pockets as they equal out.

I was talking about subtracting the ball diameter [ or half of it ] when finding an edge, just as you do with a wiggler but I must admit I was typing this sat in the house and not actually trying this so I see where you are going.

Need to actually try this but if it is so I I do believe you are right, [ see YOD I do get my knickers in a twist :D ] it will be even easier.

Whooeee.

No idea on cost as yet, these were only samples but there are a couple of German ones on Ebay.co.uk without the stylus.

.

Alistair Hosie
02-23-2008, 07:35 AM
piece of sh1t useless











send it to me to play with :DAlistair

shadoof
02-23-2008, 08:57 AM
Here's a link to the German ones,

http://www.haimer.de/english/taster.php


looks like you can order direct from them.
The Video/animation is good.

Lee.

John Stevenson
02-23-2008, 09:18 AM
Lee,
Thanks for that, the video shows just how easy it is to use.

.

A.K. Boomer
02-23-2008, 09:41 AM
John,

Just on why it's called a 'taster' - it's from the German word 'tasten' which means to feel or touch.



Ian


Hmmmm, Makes me want to take a stab at german porn;

She "tastened" it with her volumptuos lips, My achtung was focused on how she was holding my Howlizter --- I was getting very chaud -- couldnt stand the tastening any longer --- so I spanked her with it:p

(I know "chaud" means hot, its on allot of radiator caps and heat shields but I really dont know if its german --- please forgive - I had to make due)

pcarpenter
02-23-2008, 09:50 AM
Wake up a little randy did we Boomer?

Paul

Spin Doctor
02-23-2008, 11:10 AM
Where these things really shine is doing set-ups on machines where you can't be right by the indicator/edge finder, wiggler whatever. Say you are 6 or 8 feet away from the spindle and you are trying to hear an audible edgefinder kick over in a shop full of running equipment. Once properly dialed in they are so simple a Caveman (or Allistair) could do it

Alistair Hosie
02-23-2008, 11:14 AM
Don't liken me to a cave man they aren't sophisticated and suave debonaire and good looking such as wot I ur :DAlistair

John Stevenson
02-23-2008, 12:11 PM
Well never mind about AK being randy I have been playing with this today and already had 3 orgasms.

What I want to know is, they aren't new, there are plenty of posts on the Blake co-ax etc, so where have they been hiding.?

Looking at the German site a new one is 225 Euro's, about $334 or £170 UKP which is par for the course given German engineering and prices.

Seems the CNC guys know all about them but it hasn't filtered down yet.

Anyone notice the co-ax version on the German website and in the video ? Don't know whether the action is damped but they are very smooth. This Chinese one works just the same as the one in the video.
The short Blake co-ax still dances about though.

.

.

JCHannum
02-23-2008, 01:17 PM
They are probably not showing up in the HSM environment because of their cost. They have been around for a while in the $500 price range which is quite high when they really don't do anything more for luddites like me (DRO, what's a DRO?) than a $20 mechanical edge finder or a dowel pin and cigarette paper will.

Blake coaxial center finders have been around for a lot longer, and the genuine Blakes turn up used at reasonable prices. The Chicom knockoffs have been on the market for several years now, and are affordable for the HSM as well.

The tasters shine for the professional and CNC shops where their convenience, accuracy and speed will payout the initial cost.

Mark McGrath
02-23-2008, 04:43 PM
I have been using a Taster for about 4-5 years.Cost,and still does £130/$270.
It has a 20mm shank and when you first put it in a spindle you should check the probe to make sure it`s concentric with the spindle.If it`s not,there is adjustment in the head to true it up.
You also should not drag the probe along the job/vice/fixture.It is better to pull off,move along and probe again.
I find it very quick and easy to use,if you run the probe into something solid there is a plastic section in the middle that breaks so saving the instrument from damage.Downside is the probes are about £15/$31 each.There is a choice of long or short probes.
The price quoted is from WNT in Sheffield.
Mark.

John Stevenson
02-23-2008, 06:39 PM
So I'm thinking, if this has come from China with a Blake knock off and a Z tool presetter, two items that have been around for a bit they has this 3D tool alos been imported ?

Yup,
Shars in the US have it listed.

http://www.shars.com/products/view/1980/3D_Alignment_Indicator

Still not cheap but it only takes a couple more to import them to get them down in price.
.

Mark McGrath
02-23-2008, 07:33 PM
John,WNT also do the Z presetter.There are several versions of the taster,some only have one pointer and loads of companies sell them in the States.I was looking at the prices night before last as someone on the PM board was asking how it was used.

sconisbee
02-23-2008, 07:50 PM
So I'm thinking, if this has come from China with a Blake knock off and a Z tool presetter, two items that have been around for a bit they has this 3D tool alos been imported ?
.

Linear tools used to sell one pretty much identical, dont remember price and i cant get the online catalogue working right now but the instruction sheet for their one is here, not sure if they still sell one tho.

http://www.lineartools.co.uk/files/data%201035.pdf

Thomas Staubo
02-23-2008, 08:10 PM
...I'm pretty sure you don't need to add or subtract the ball dia. at least I don't need to on my german made one when the needle is at zero you are at spindle center line for that axis...

You are right about that.

Quote from the Haimer website:

When the dial gage shows zero, the spindle axis is exactly on the workpiece edge. Only the Haimer 3D-Sensor allows for the edge to be found on the first attempt. No calculating of the probe’s ball diameter is necessary – just zero it out!

Nice toy! :)


.

stuntrunt
02-24-2008, 06:22 AM
Hmmmm, Makes me want to take a stab at german porn;

She "tastened" it with her volumptuos lips, My achtung was focused on how she was holding my Howlizter --- I was getting very chaud -- couldnt stand the tastening any longer --- so I spanked her with it:p

(I know "chaud" means hot, its on allot of radiator caps and heat shields but I really dont know if its german --- please forgive - I had to make due)

The same word is used in Dutch...
Tasten or aftasten is what a blind person does to a face or en object to get a 'feel' of the shape.
Also by asking questions and theorizing you con 'Tast' boundries and possibilities

Chaud btw is French.

If I may be so bold as to offer some advice, DON'T go anywhere near German porn... you'll gat more kicks from a shaper manual and it reads about the same. The german word for nipple means breastwart...

Runt

S_J_H
02-24-2008, 10:28 AM
John,
Anyway to have a look inside of the 3d Taster? I'm curious what the mechanism looks like. I have wanted one of those but the price is a bit steep. Just wondering if it's a possible DIY project.
Steve

A.K. Boomer
02-24-2008, 10:56 AM
Thanks stunt, thats messed up (breastwart) you might as well call it a boob tumor, just as romantic.....


Thanks for clearing up the "chaud" thing, havent worked on a puegot,renault, or citroen (sp)? in well over a decade so I dont know how I hung on to that for so long, like a nightmare I suppose...

Although Im versed in multiple languages across the globe I have to admit that i dont always know thier country of origin and am exremely limited to stuff I get off of "caution" labels from under the hoods of cars, Just the same --- if something is stamped into a heat shield im pretty sure it has nothng to do with a seat belt, there is one universal symbol that I try to avoid at all costs, that tripple propeller thing will kill you, if its got it dont tear into it...

John Stevenson
02-24-2008, 02:46 PM
Steve,
I'll see if the rubber boot comes off easily but I don't want to damage this as it 'may' have to go back, it's only on test.
And whilst we are on the subject of languages I don't want to sent this back in a vertically challanged mammory gland state.

For a rough translation read tits up.