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View Full Version : New 7x12 ENCO Bandsaw ... some impressions & pix



Bill Pace
04-10-2008, 07:02 AM
Sometimes having friends with the same interest as you (Lane & Henry) can be hazardous to your wallet---

I recently wrote about Henry and I finding a Peerless 9x16 bandsaw in the scrapyard and were in the process of "rehabilitating" it, During the rebuild process I took quite a liking to the prospect of a "big saw". I had already been around Lanes and admired it, so doing the rebuild wasn't helping, ----after having one of the popular 4x6's for many years, I really didn't NEED another saw, but when you re an addict, you have to slip occasionally ---(What did you say, Russ?,-- some snide comment?)

So, when the ENCO "Hot Deals" catalog came out a couple weeks ago with their 7x12 bandsaw featured with free frt, it only took a few days to give in and place the order.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPAGE?PMPAGE=/specials/137-3175

I did a good bit of searching to find some comments/impressions on this size (7x12-6 1/2x10-7x10 1/2, etc) and came up with mostly nothing, so I thought I would give first impressions and some pix that you wont see in the catalog, And ... first impressions are ---well, very good! Fit and finish is quite nice, hardware (nut/bolts) seem quite a bit better than some previous experiences, and, everything --so far-- is tight. I had to tweak the on/off switch paddle, wouldn't quite complete cut before switching off. Came with the usual sample slice off a piece of round (cant figure what the .020 number indicates .. not mms?) so my first test cuts was also a piece of round out of the scrap box and it cuts very nicely.

The saw was shown as being delivered from MSC by the trucking co, -- decal sticker on saw arm says its made by ENCO, with Nevada address! Transaction was handled like the last 2-3 large purchases made from ENCO on phone, very efficiently and politely by a young lady with a decidedly "suthan ahkcent" ( I think they are in Ga, -- Atlanta?) and delivery was 4 days ------ so far, so good!! The motor as a bit of a surprise also, a big ole honking thing, that doesn't even look like some of the previous Chinese stuff, The whole package has added to my impression that the more recent tools coming out of China are definitely improving!

Anybody else got one in this group/size saw, whats your experience?? .......

These shots are just as I took the plastic off, and the first 2 cuts...

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_0774.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_0775.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_0777.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_0778.jpg

torker
04-10-2008, 08:55 AM
LOL! Nice saw Bill! I'm pretty impressed with the accuracy.
That is a disgustingly low price you paid.
Cheapest I've seen a 7X12 up here is $999.
BTW.. what happened with the ol' Peerless?
Saws! It's funny.. I got that Wells 9X16 and thought I'd rarely use my old swivel head 4X6 anymore. Wrong! The swivel head makes for such easy and quick angles and overall it's just darn handy for the little stuff that gets lost in the vise on the Wells.
You have fun with that !
Russ

Bill Pace
04-10-2008, 09:08 AM
Oops! I did intend to give an update on the junkyard Peerless ----

The old boy turned out pretty nicely ....Lotttts of work! .. many hours!

Trimming/cutting back from the 1" blade size on the tires to accept a 1/2" blade worked out just fine,-- we did have to do a little finaggling to get the narrower blade to cut completely through and a little adjusting on the guides, but, that was minor after some of the other problems the saw had.

Turned out nice enough to make me want a larger saw----

torker
04-10-2008, 09:13 AM
Thanks Bill! Glad to hear you saved it from the scrapyard.

Forrest Addy
04-10-2008, 09:35 AM
I got (almost) the same saw 10 years ago made under the "TrunPro" brand name. Everything is identical with yours except on mine the feed cylinder extends down the leg instead of attaching to the lower frame. I tweaked mine a tiny bit and drilled a few pin holes in the fized jaw to make rapid setings to common miters and return to square. Outside of that it's mostly neglected between saw jobs. I probably have 2000 cuts on it by now mostly in structural steel.

Mine has the handy flip up for vertical saw use. Remove the jaws, pad the lower frame with a stack of clean shop towels, attach the table to the saw guide, and setting down for a session of contour sawing in stuff as thick as you can push. Your saw has the same config on the lower guide. Did a table come with it?

One thing is a PITA: changing the band. You have to open the cover by removing screws which are hard to replace. Why couldn't they install a couple of overcenter catches? Another is the saw with the frame up tips over backward easily. So be careful when moving it around with the frame up.

The often neglected trick to owning a band cut-off saw is to not skimp on the bands. A bi-metal costing double a carbon steel band will last 4 to 5 times as long. Even a cheapskate like me can work out the ROI on that one. I seem to prefer Lenox band which I have made up for me at Eastside Saw and sales in Enumclaw Wa. I get 5 for the price of 4 when I order them. $100 in saw bands lasts a year or more and generally brings me several times that in labor savings.

You made a shrewd purchase judging by my experience. That $700 saw fits perfectly between the 4 x 6 starter saw and one far more expensive having not that much more capacity.

snowman
04-10-2008, 10:59 AM
It's a great saw, I've got the same one from Harbor Freight. I just now stripped the teeth off the original blade last night doing something stupid. Unfortunately, I now feel paralyzed, as JL Ind was out of the blades yesterday afternoon when I went to pick them up. It always works that way, they are out of my "spare stock", then that night, I snap the blade or something stupid. If I ever meet a whimpy little guy named Murphy, that looks like a troublemaker, I'm tyin his butt up and taking him around to all the local machine shops. $5 for ten hits with a wet foam noodle.

It's a good saw though, I'm pleasantly surprised.

bmw625
04-10-2008, 10:59 AM
Forrest, do you have a # for eastside saw blade?I 've never heard of them, I'd like to be able to get blades local .
thanks, brent:)

PaulF
04-10-2008, 04:26 PM
Hi Bill,
I have the same saw (about 13 years old) bought it in Seattle when they had an Enco warehouse.
It still cuts right on, and the motor, switch, coolant pump and hydraulic feed all work perfectly!

I cut slots on the sheet metal blade covers to let me just loosen the screw knobs to open the covers and change blades.

The only problem I have had is the quick release Vice slips and I have to use a clamp to hold the jaws tight. I think I lost a pin in the mechanism and don't know what it looks like to rebuild it. I haven't called to see if I can get spare parts, however most of these ENCO tools don't have spare parts available.

Overall a great saw.
PaulF

Alistair Hosie
04-10-2008, 04:40 PM
$700 = 350ish yet over here in the u.k. that same saw sells for around 700+ talk about pound exchanged for dollar.It proves rip off Britain is still very much in existence. Wow! you guys have it good come over here for $11-12 dollars a gallon for petrol and rising weekly Alistair

quasi
04-10-2008, 06:25 PM
I am very impressed with that accuracy!!! I sold my asian 4x6 bandsaw when I got a very good deal on a Rockwell 7v (7x10 with vari-speed reeves drive).

The Rockwell is a much nicer horizontal saw than the 4x6, but it doesnt convert to a vertical saw like the 4x6 did. I miss this feature very much. The 4x6 asian saws are inexpensive enough when on sale that I am considering buying another one just for vertical use.

Another option is to build a vertical stand for my Milwaukee Porta-band saw. If I could only have one bandsaw, it would be the Porta-band.

Real Commercial-Industrial grade vertical bandsaws really seem to hold their value, even on Ebay.

Hey Torker, Go Flames Go!

Bill Pace
04-10-2008, 08:00 PM
There is a definite kinship to the "Turn-Pro" series saws -- the damper system and a speed change gear box seemingly the difference ... along with a price increase!

It does have the feature of being able to set it up with a table for vertical cutting, that was one of the attractions to the saw, --that is a fantastic benefit when youve got a largish piece of plate and need some free hand capability... my small saw is one of the swivels and a table was one of the first mods I did to it. I want to look at rigging a table that can stay fixed to the guide, which I did for the small saw, though I can see that it will be more difficult on this one

They may have improved the blade change ability since yours Forrest, it doesnt look like itll be too bad, though I'll be doing as Paul did and making a slot in the 2 thumb screw locations

I think a quality bi-metal blade is a must and I will have one on order shortly. Surprisingly this area of some 250,000 population doesnt have a single source of blades.

Alistair, is your post as bad as Canada's ---- maybe one of us could mail you one of the saws?:D

lane
04-10-2008, 08:15 PM
Bill your wife is going to kill me . You have spent too much money on shop stuff since we met . And i am so far ahead you cant catch up.

flatlander
04-11-2008, 10:15 AM
I also 'gave in' to temptation late last summer when Enco offered their TurnPro 7x12 saw with free freight. One of the first things I saw when the freight truck driver rolled the trailer door open was the "Made in Taiwan" sticker on the plastic wrap of the saw pallet. That was a pleasant surprise, as I'd expected it to be chicom. IIRC, the only thing we had to assemble were the axles & wheels -everything else was ready to go, and it cut straight right off. I bought a few spare Morse bi-metal blades in anticipation of the original blade not lasting very long, but so far, it's still going strong. I've cut a few pieces of surplus mystery stainless with it, but almost everything else has been 6061 aluminum. It works so well that I find myself looking for excuses to use it - over the past dozen years or so, we'd gotten in the habit of using chop saws instead of the old Kalamazoo it replaced.

Rif
04-11-2008, 10:57 AM
I bought the same saw, as flatlander, and it works great. Though I haven't used it nearly as much as he does, it sure is an upgrade. Before the horizontal band saw, I was using a vice and a hacksaw. It is worth every penny to be able to put the stock in the vice, set the downfeed, set the coolant, turn it on and walk away. I was also very surprised to find that it was made in Taiwan.

However, mine does not cut as accurately...maybe I need to find the adjustments.

Brian

deltaenterprizes
04-11-2008, 11:43 AM
Try Grainger there should be one close to you

Patch
04-14-2008, 12:20 AM
Hi Bill,

I agree, the Enco saw is rather nice.
I have 3 hoz and 1 vert saw. The one that gets used a lot is the 7x12. So much so, I felt I should get another as a backup.
Odd story, The backup saw is a "turnPro" purchased from Enco. After getting it, it sat still wrapped for over a year. Then came
the day when with 2 of the saws running almost 24/7 that I needed to put the reserve saw into operation.
Nuts, after 6 hours running the motor totally fried. In my dismay, I called Enco and explained what happened. Tho the saw was
never used before this time and it was then out of warrenty Enco came thru for me. They sold me a replacement motor at 60%, free
shipping, and I had it in 2 days.
Bravoe Enco, Psssst on me for not putting it into service earlier to see if there would be any problems.

I am pleased with the saw but, did make a few alterations to it that seems almost a give-a-way as I ask myself, "why didn't they
do these changes at the factory with a little Q.C. It would have been worth it to pay a little more then to make the few changes.

Anyways, here are a few of the changes I made and perhaps my diliemas may make your saw a little more enjoyable.

Firstly, Forest is quite right, the saw has an uncomfortable feeling of being tail heavy when raising the head.
For this, I removed the wheels and fabricated a new dolly made from 1-1/2x1/8 angle and lengthened the rear 10" and the front 12".
Next, I threw away the plastic wheels and installed to 8" wheels rear and 2, 6" rotating casters front. The rotating front casters
makes it easier when setting up a cut such that you need not scoot the maching back and forth to get an alignment to the vice. The
plastic wheels that came with the machine are a joke. Roll forward or back, but, hit a piece of swarf or something on the floor and
right away, it's scoot scoot scoot and erosion to the wheel with another flat spot. The additional height of the new wheels are
really nice too as it's not as hard on your back and just seems more comphy.

Next, if you notice in your pic the bolt that holds the rear angle vice, that if you remove it, what you have is a about a 3/8"
bolt in a 1/2-5/8 hole.
Very sloppy and when setting up and tightening the vice angle movement occurs.
I took the rear vice plate off and threw away the bolt.
I then purchased a shoulder bolt for this location. The hole in the vice plate was drilled oversize by 1/16" and I made a few bronze
bushings that look a little like a top hat upside down and pressed one in with a .001 interference.
The new shoulder bolt was drilled vert and longt to each axis and tapped for a 1/8" npt grease zirk. Also made the same change to
the vice pressure plate. I bought a small 4oz hand grease gun, emptied the grease from the cartridge and refilled it with vasilene.
2 reasons, standard grease is a mess, it it gets on the metal you are cutting it is hard to solvent clean if you need to paint the
metal you cut and second, I can handle a little vasilene on me and my cloths or tools but thick grease, well, yuck.
The vasilene makes for an excellent lube at this joint. Continued use with the preceedant would make it hard to adjust due to the
slop, the bolt threads would eventually wear into the cast plate and sometime soon, you would need to redo it anyways.

Next, I basicly did the same at the trunions of the head joint. The thru-shaft was removed and I drilled and tapped each side for
a zirk. The shaft was then lathed using a vee cutter at the zirk locaton to provide a full-round lube slot for grease.

Unlike your saw, when I decided which to buy I decided on the TurnPro basicly because of where and how the drift cyl. was located.
One of my other saws had it mounted as yours is and it didn't take long before I said it was not good. Once and on several occasions
when cutting large round stock it seems when they were cut they always rolled to fall on the cyl. I later changed it to the location
you may notice if looking at a TurnPro saw.
If you choose not to remount it, at least turn the cyl. 180 degrees. It will make it harder to adjust but at least if something heavy
hits the cyl, it won't be hitting the valve or tubing on it.

One of my smaller saws, made by "Duracraft" (tells the age) had no cyl. but did have a adjustable tensioner. Similiar to the new saw
but with differences.
The new saws spring meerly attached to an "Eye bolt" with a nut on the end for adjustment. What a joke.
I replaced the small eyebolt with one that had a longer 6" threaded shank, made a bracket for the location, fabbed a long tube with
welded nut at end, fabbed another bracket for the front and installed a 4" hand wheel to it.
Simply turn the hand wheel and as it takes up or loosens the tension adjustment is easy. It is a long adjustment rod too. Keep this
part in mind.
If your curious why all this well, The drift cyl basicly does its job fairly well in thin stock. The saw will cut faster then the
smallest bleed of the cyl valve.
But, get into a heavy piece of steel , a wide plate, a large round, and even with the slightest bleed, due to the great amount of
the cut, the cly will bleed off because the saw cut cannot keep up with the valve setting and what you wind up with is the weight
of the full saw head resting on the blade as it is cutting. This weight will cause the blade to twist a bit and uneven wear of the
blade results. Also, it will give tendancy to an untrue cut. Changing to an extended eye-bolt and shaft with a hand wheel sure is nice
not having to use a socket and rachet to make adjustments.

Getting on with the changes, the next was at the water tray drain. Here I lathed a small tube about 2" long, cut an O-ring groove
to the outside of one end and inserted it into the drain hole.
The O-ring keeps it in place and is set about 1/8" higher then the tray bottom. What it does is to create a small dam for which the
swarf filings accumilate against and only allows the coolant to ride over the top edge of the drain tube.
As a second precaution, I placed 3 bar magnets, each in seperate plastic bags and put them at 120 degrees to the outside edge of
my drain tube. They really help keep the swarf from the coolant tank. I also placed a larger magnet, in a plastic bag, and dropped
it into the tank. This is a little more insurance to keeping coolant clean of swarf and with all this done will insure greater
operating length-of-time of the pump.
What is nice about the plastic bags: When time to clean the swarf from the machine simply take out the bagged magnet, and
brush the tray. To clean the magnet accumilation just turn the bag inside out thus trapping the swarf for
disposal. Replace with a new bag and install.
What I use for coolant is a mixture 50/50 water and antifreeze. Antifreeze contains its own lubricant and has rust inhibiters.
I also put a "Santi-cake on the top of the tray. Keeps the coolant smelling nice, odor free a long time.
("Santi-cake"= the type used in a urinal.)

Lastly, and a bit important, I added a second coolant flow tube to the rear blade guide rollers.
I noticed after 100 hours use the saw blade was chafting on the sides. What I found causing it was, tho the first coolant flow
cleaned and lubed the blade before entering the cut, the second flow tube cleaned the swarf before
going thru the rear rollers keeping the swarf from binding up the rollers causing them to stop rolling at times and eating into
the sides of the blade with the buildup of swarf.


All in all, I am pleased like I say with the saw. I hope my changes don't seem unjustified and that perhaps you may make use of
some of this.



Have fun with your new saw,

Patch

Metalmelter
05-21-2008, 03:00 PM
Sorry about the late reply on this but I thought I lost my files and well, found them again.

I got the same machine as yours, only twice. The first was smashed to pieces on the truck. I'll save bandwidth so go here to look at the mess: http://www.metalmelter.com/projects/page1.html

Funny thing is, the driver looked surprised I didn't accept delivery! Go figure..

I also got an Enco Mill. More problems with that too. "We don't ship our mills with oil" (yea right) and "the oil soaked way covers will take 6 months to get from China". What ???!!! Boy was I pi$$ed. They almost got the mill back.

Well anyway, after a new band saw, I built a much better frame for it to sit in with a swivel front end. There are a couple of mods in another thread I just discovered that are well worth doing: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=28742&highlight=bandsaw

In the end I'm almost done with Chinese equipment unless I can't find something better here. I just cringe thinking of another round of problems like the last. The band saw runs rather nice. The mill drill I would give a 6 on a scale up to 10. The money spent on the mill drill could have bought a Bridgeport (which it actually did 6 months later).

We live and we learn ;)

LastOldDog
05-21-2008, 07:36 PM
I too have one of these saws, Taiwan motor and machine, I'm satisfied, $699 delivered for the newest one.

Many issues have been addressed, footprint for stability, wheelie bars, frame mit bigger wheels + steerable casters, etc.

I propose to you to modify 5C spindex to fit properly in the vise, use collets to hold short pieces of round, square, and hex cross section for compound angles. Collet blocks are also useful.

Drill and tap the vise for capture screws to hold 'Snap Jaws' from your Kurt vise.

Make 'soft jaws' with horizontal parallel grooves to accommodate thin wide bar stock clamped at an angle to insure proper number of engaged teeth

Make soft jaw blanks (I have a bucket load roughed out of hard rock maple, various other hard woods, and solid Type I PVC, just to have on hand)

Secondary high pressure flood and micro air nozzle to clear gullets.

A convenient hook to hold the heavy cord to wrap the material being cut to prevent coolant from running to the end.

A few shop made fixed protractors for quick angle set-up

A shop made 'basket' of 1/4" rod to catch short drops and support the inner end of longer stock
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Each time I could use a special fixture/aide, I say "Why don't I just fix this, right now? I'll have it forever" As a rule, I invariably say, "I'll never use it again . . ."

Enough annoyances provokes me to take action, and all this custom 'stuff' is kept with the saw so it will go with the machine upon my demise

gnm109
05-21-2008, 08:50 PM
I have the same basic Enco saw. Mine is dated 1987 and I've owned it since around 1993. I bought mine used for $300. The only difference between your saw and mine is that I don't have the hydraulic down unit. On my saw, I just adjust the balance spring to give a uniform down force. It must work because it gets the job done and the blades last an inordinate length of time.

I only checked it once for accuracy and it would do a 3" aluminum rod with only about .003 variation from side to side, It also did a 6" square of 1/4" mild steel cut from a long piece of 1/4 X 6" to about .004 or so. That's plenty good enough for me considering I don't spend a lot of time adjusting it. .

I think I replaced the grease in the worm drive once and one bearing in the pump motor. Oh yeah, the original shutoff switch went South a few years ago and I replaced it with a metal 110 VAC toggle switch mounted in a metal conduit box. Other than that, no repairs.

I did braze a piece of 1" pipe into the bottom side of the coolant tank a couple of years back so I could cap it off and drain when I needed to. If you leave the coolant in too long it will make Camembert, Gouda or Brie, depending upon the weather.

All in all, I feel that it was a good investment.

As an aside, it's nice to be on a website that permits you to say Enco. Others will let you say Grizzly or CDCO but not Enco. I can't figure that one out, can you? :)

Smokedaddy
05-21-2008, 09:31 PM
I just bought one myself. Seems to be a very nice saw to me for the price. Mind answering some question? If I understood, I wouldn't be asking.



I propose to you to modify 5C spindex to fit properly in the vise, use collets to hold short pieces of round, square, and hex cross section for compound angles. Collet blocks are also useful.


What is a 5C spindex?



Drill and tap the vise for capture screws to hold 'Snap Jaws' from your Kurt vise.


What is the purpose/function of 'Snap Jaws"? I went to their site but I don't understand why they're necessary?

-SD:

LastOldDog
05-22-2008, 05:46 PM
I just bought one myself. Seems to be a very nice saw to me for the price. Mind answering some question? If I understood, I wouldn't be asking.

What is a 5C spindex?

What is the purpose/function of 'Snap Jaws"? I went to their site but I don't understand why they're necessary?

-SD:

SmokeDaddy, thanx for the heads-up, I certainly did NOT articulate my thoughts clearly, my apologies.

Should be "Spin Index" as in http://www.workholding.com/5cspin.htm
The purpose is, it uses standard 5C collets,
'emergency' collets
http://hardingetooling.com/usr/PDFfiles/B008C.pdf
http://www.royalprod.com/product.cfm?catID=6&id=39
can be had allowing one to machine special short configurations into the jaws. This is great for doing the final cut-off on a short bar that has had machining performed on the end, now just needs the stub to be sawn off


Snap jaws are really quick mount jaws for milling vises, the two mounting bolts do not need to be fully removed to change jaws. See http://www.snapjaws.com/

I have many shop-made 'snap jaws', aluminum, steel, some for ordinary clamping of round stock, some with step jaw configuration. Also a few that grasp nearly 360* for clamping softer material like plastics. Not by accident, the jaws on this saw are drilled with the same bolt size and pattern.

The 'need' for a special fixture is endless, seems the creation of one is limited by time and future potential use. Hope this helps out.

Lloyd 'Fixture Freak'

Smokedaddy
05-22-2008, 08:59 PM
Thanks Lloyd,

I'm still learning machining ... I have collets for my Maximat Mentor but haven't had the need to use them yet. Have some ETM collets for my Bridgeport but have never used or seen a Spin Index, that' why I was asking. Oh, I have no 5C or emergency collets either.

If you have any pictures of using your setup(s) here let me know. If you plan on posting them I would be interested in seeing a few, just to get some ideas.

Regads,
-SD:

Smokedaddy
09-15-2008, 12:49 AM
Need some help,

Would anyone "in the know" suggest a replacement bandsaw blade for the ENCO 7/12 which was shown in the first message here? I put a new one on mine today to cut some schedule 40 CS pipe. Once I got the speed and feed correct it cut fine. Later on during the day I tried cutting some 1" electropolished stainless steel tube (316L) and it just sat there and barley cut into it. Next I tried cutting some 1" Aluminum round stock and it wouldn't cut a thing, barley scored it. Did I ruin the blade?

On another note, can someone suggest a specific blade for this particular saw for cutting Aluminum and Carbon Steel? Below is a link to the one I purchased. I know bi-metal blades last longer but this was a joke. Do they make a bi-metal blade the proper lenght for this saw? Do I need to buy 2 different, or 3 different blades?

Regards,
-SD:

Smokedaddy
09-15-2008, 01:11 AM
Me again,

The only one I found so far was a Lenox.

Description: Band - Saw Blades & Saws Blade Length: 7 Ft. 9 In. Blade Width: 3/4 Teeth per Inch: 4, 6 Type: Classic Material: Bi-Metal
Blade Length (Feet): 7Ft. 9In.
Blade Width (Inch): 3/4
Teeth per Inch: 4, 6
Type: Classic
Blade Thickness (Decimal Inch): 0.035
Type of Tooth: Variable
Tooth Set: Regular
Material: Bi-Metal

another Lenox

Description: Band - Saw Blades & Saws Blade Length: 7 Ft. 9 In. Blade Width: 3/4 Teeth per Inch: 10-14 Type: Bi-Metal Material: Bi-Metal
Blade Length (Feet): 7Ft. 9In.
Blade Width (Inch): 3/4
Teeth per Inch: 10-14
Type: Bi-Metal
Blade Thickness (Decimal Inch): 0.035
Type of Tooth: Vari-Tooth
Tooth Set: Straight
Material: Bi-Metal


-----

Irwin

Description: Band - Saw Blades & Saws Blade Length: 7 Ft. 9 In. Blade Width: 3/4 Teeth per Inch: 10-14 Type: Bi-Metal Material: Bi-Metal
Blade Length (Feet): 7Ft. 9In.
Blade Width (Inch): 3/4
Teeth per Inch: 10-14
Type: Bi-Metal
Blade Thickness (Decimal Inch): 0.035
Type of Tooth: Vari-Tooth
Tooth Set: Straight
Material: Bi-Metal

another Irwin

Description: Band - Saw Blades & Saws Blade Length: 7 Ft. 9 In. Blade Width: 3/4 Teeth per Inch: 6-10 Type: Bi-Metal Material: Bi-Metal
Blade Length (Feet): 7Ft. 9In.
Blade Width (Inch): 3/4
Teeth per Inch: 6-10
Type: Bi-Metal
Blade Thickness (Decimal Inch): 0.035
Type of Tooth: Vari-Tooth
Tooth Set: Straight
Material: Bi-Metal



-SD:>?

Joel
09-15-2008, 03:03 AM
Yep, your blade is toast.
It is difficult to give you blade recommendations. You mention the materials (alum and steel), but not stock size or if solid or structural profiles you intend to cut. There should be a guide to selecting the appropriate blades on the saw and in the manual.
I am a bit lazy about changing blades and cut a lot of different materials with this particular saw. A 6/10 usually stays on the saw but I do keep a coarser and finer blade in stock - and I only use bi-metal blades. What you need depends on what you cut.

Reed
09-15-2008, 08:20 AM
Now you need to replace the wheels with casters. . .

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff3/rstreifthau/Horz7x12saw-with-castors.jpg

- Reed

[QUOTE=Bill Pace]Sometimes having friends with the same interest as you (Lane & Henry) can be hazardous to your wallet---

I recently wrote about Henry and I finding a Peerless 9x16 bandsaw in the scrapyard and were in the process of "rehabilitating" it, During the rebuild process I took quite a liking to the prospect of a "big saw". I had already been around Lanes and admired it, so doing the rebuild wasn't helping, ----after having one of the popular 4x6's for many years, I really didn't NEED another saw, but when you re an addict, you have to slip occasionally ---(What did you say, Russ?,-- some snide comment?)

So, when the ENCO "Hot Deals" catalog came out a couple weeks ago with their 7x12 bandsaw featured with free frt, it only took a few days to give in and place the order.

MTNGUN
09-15-2008, 11:32 AM
Need some help,
I tried cutting some 1" electropolished stainless steel tube (316L) and it just sat there and barley cut into it. Next I tried cutting some 1" Aluminum round stock and it wouldn't cut a thing, barley scored it. Did I ruin the blade?

I roll my eyes when I hear these guys talking about blades lasting forever.

If you let stainless work harden, it will ruin a blade on the first cut, even bi metal blades.

For cutting stainless, change the pulleys to the lowest speed, and increase the feed -- as much feed as it will tolerate without bending the blade. I lean toward a finer tooth on stainless, too. When cutting stainless, I brush on old fashioned cutting oil rather than coolant. If you do these things, even carbon blades will last a long time.

My 4x6 is now dedicated to cutting 1/4" round, mostly stainless, and has been using the same carbon blade for several months, cutting thousands of pieces of stainless in that time. I believe it is a 24T Starret. But I ruined a lot of blades before I figured things out.

I used to use bimetal exclusively because that's what all the experts recommended, but the bimetals typically lasted only a month in the 4x6 (they would probably last longer in the 7x12 because it is more rigid and has a coolant pump). I'm using name brand carbon blades more and more, because I don't see a big difference in blade life.

I recently found a nearly new 7x12 on ebay for $450, and I'm pretty happy with it. It is made by Rung Fu, and looks identical to the saw in this thread. It is still running the carbon blade that came with the saw.

gnm109
09-15-2008, 12:03 PM
I have a 1984 Enco 7 X 12 Bandsaw that I bought from a friend about ten years ago for $300. It was in good condition and appears to be the exact same model that is shown in the pictures.

The motor has never given me the least bit of trouble and, after some adjustment, it will cut off a slice of 4" aluminum round with only about .005 variation. That's pretty good for government work. LOL.

That saw is an excellent value at the price shown, expecially with shipping included. Good old enco.

One change I made was to replace the old wheels with some better ones because one of them broke. I made a sheet aluminum cover to go over the opening down where the water reservoir is to keep out dust since I work in a barn. I also welded in a piece of pipe with a cap at the bottom edge of the reservoir so I could drain the reservoir when I have periods of inactivity on the saw.

That's a very good saw. As mentioned above, I believe that they are made by Rung Fu.

pcarpenter
09-15-2008, 12:32 PM
I know we want to treat a horizontal bandsaw as an unattended item, but I find that I end up nursing mine for the following reason:

In cutting tubing, you go from a wide cut (which would merit one feed rate) to cutting through the comparatively thin walls and back to cutting a wide section. Square or rectangular tubing is the worst for this.

If you allow the saw to "fall" throught the thinner wall section with the greater down force you migh use to cut the thicker stuff, you risk taking the tips off the teeth or even ripping teeth off. I get the feed reasonable to insure that its cutting constantly (instead of burnishing the teeth) in the "broad" portion of the cut and then stand there and "hold back" the falling saw during the time its cutting the tubing walls, then let the saw finish the cut on its own.

Does the electropolishing process you mentioned harden the outer portion of the tubing? Perhaps you were attempting to cut through a skin that was as hard as the blade.

I find, in general, that the bimetal blades do outlast the carbon blades by a lot. When on sale, they are not that much more expensive, either. I can see where some things could ruin either blade prematurely, though, making the bimetal blades less of a bargain.

Paul

Smokedaddy
09-15-2008, 02:41 PM
Yep, your blade is toast.
It is difficult to give you blade recommendations. You mention the materials (alum and steel), but not stock size or if solid or structural profiles you intend to cut. There should be a guide to selecting the appropriate blades on the saw and in the manual.
I am a bit lazy about changing blades and cut a lot of different materials with this particular saw. A 6/10 usually stays on the saw but I do keep a coarser and finer blade in stock - and I only use bi-metal blades. What you need depends on what you cut.

Joel,

Aluminum wise: Most of my cutting will be aluminum. Solid round stock (max. of 6 inch diameter) 6061T and Aluminum pipe Schedule 40 and 80. Probably some 6061 Aluminum flat stock was well, 1/4 to 1" thick and different widths.

Steel: Some round stock now and then, probably smaller diameters (1 1/4" and below). Pipe, schedule 40/80, perhaps heavier now and then. Diameters will vary, probably nothing larger than 4 inch Pipe.

SS: I probably won't use the saw again on the stainless and use tubing cutters, then face it on the lathe (or a facing tool).

So, any suggestions on a blade (such as the ones I posted)? I noticed they were all Vari-Tooth (whatever they're for).


Regards,
-SD:

Joel
09-15-2008, 04:05 PM
For the 6" aluminum solid, you are probably going to want the coarsest blade you can get - a 3/4 tooth would be good. When you get under a couple of inches (we are talking solids), switch to a lower tooth count. An 8/12 should be fine for your .250 to 1". Lower tooth counts are somewhat 'safer' although slower, so you could go with a 10/14 if you like. My tendency is to stay on the coarse side and ease up on the feed a bit if I need to. You are surely going to want a blade for the intermediate sizes, so just pick one that fills in the gap between your coarse and fine blade choices, maybe a 6/10 or 5/8.

With structurals, it is wall thickness, not diameter, that counts. Look at the chart linked below and you will see that you can basically double the wall thickness and use a blade for that size solid.
A variable pitch blade (like the 8/12 tpi) has several advantages, not the least of which is that you can cut a wider range of thicknesses with the same blade.
Since every tooth count isn't available in every blade size, you will be limited in choice. Don't worry about it too much, just get the closest ones you can find.

Here is a blade selection chart from the Morse website:
http://www.independenceband.com/tooth_selection.html

For decent blade life, watch your chip to ensure that you are using an appropriate feed rate and blade speed.
http://www.independenceband.com/troubleshooting.html

Are you aware that blades should be broken in?
Here is a good explanation:
http://www.bandsawbladesdirect.com/docs/Blade%20Break-in.pdf

BTW, Morse will send you a catalog, at no charge, which explains quite a bit about blade selection and troubleshooting.

Smokedaddy
09-17-2008, 01:51 AM
Thanks for all the links Joel. I ended up buying 3 different ones.

-SD: