View Full Version : Is this for real?

04-19-2008, 12:35 AM
Is this a hoax? It seems a little too pie-in-the-sky to me.

Hydrogen Torch and Car


04-19-2008, 01:01 AM
Oh boy, here we go. Browns Gas again.

The water is not the fuel!!!

Electricity is used to break it down. Whatever is generating the electricity is the fuel.

04-19-2008, 01:09 AM
I don't know, not enough information presented. Up 'til now, it has taken more energy, in the form of electricity, to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen (it's constituent parts), than can be released in any form by the hydrogen. Who knows, maybe he knows something no one else does. I am a little suspicious that he uses the hydrogen in his car engine, (according to the video possibly with gasoline also) to demonstrate how economical it is. Seems like muddying the waters to me. I could, for instance, put a high pressure air tank in a vehicle, that I charged from a 3000# air compressor, and power the car with an air motor. As long as no one knew the cost of compressing the air, I could claim it was free power. If I was still using the gasoline engine part time, it would be all the more confusing.
I'd rather see him convert the hydrogen to electric power in whatever way he thought best and then compare the amount of electric power produced with the amount of electric power it took to make the hydrogen. Apples to apples. If it's as good as he's claiming, he would have invented a perpetual motion machine.

Ed Tipton
04-19-2008, 01:12 AM
For years I've heard of inventions that were supposed to increase the mileage of automobiles to fantastic proportions, only to have the auto makers supposedly shelf the ideas to promote their golden goose industry. I certainly have no way of knowing about running an internal combustion engine on hydrogen...but given H's well documented characteristics...why not. The trick to me is two fold: first is how do you extract enough pure H from the water to power the engine, and second, do this with an apparatus that is both portable and safe. If someone can get over those two hurdles, I don't see why it would not work. Pure H is certainly volatile enough, and if a portable unit could extract enough H safely, then it becomes purely a political issue...and that , in the end, will probably kill the technology, or at the very least, push it out another fifty years. Old ways die hard...even at 3.45 per gallon.

loose nut
04-20-2008, 10:20 AM
Maybe he has a trailer a couple of hundred feet long with solar cells on it to generate electricity to break the water down to H and O2

04-20-2008, 11:39 AM
I would say that we should all be embarassed that the reporter doing this story claims to be a human and not say a space alien.

Simple thermodynamics says that you cannot create hydrogen without a large electrical input so it cannot be a power source. So a hydrogen powered car just means that the electricity got consumed somewhere.

Also notice that he didn't hold his finger in the hot part of the torch, merely somewhere near the end of the flame. His ability to get away with this probably lies in the relatively low heat output of hydrogen/oxygen vs. acetylene.

It must also be noted that such hydrogen oxygen torches powered by an electrolyzer have been used for years in industrial applications. The application I am familiar with is using it to weld shut the quartz containers used in older semiconductor fabrication processes. I never saw this but was told about it when I worked for Phillips Semiconductor.

Running a car on pure hydrogen generated on board from an electrolyzer has no chance of working (unless of course you are powering it from a small onboard nuclear reactor which is to say you still had to get the hydrogen from somewhere).

I did do some research on running an electrolyzer into a gasoline engine and it appears to me that it may increase mileage. I performed about 4 controlled tests but I did not collect enough data to prove any effects beyond the anecdotal evidence given in this retarded news article.

I was also once asked to anaylyze a similar gas generator by a guy who sells alternative energy equipment. It appeared on the spec sheet to be producing more hydrogen than the electricity going in. Careful analysis on my part indicated however that they were measuring the hydrogen output by volume and they were doing it at a higher temperature than the water without correcting for the temperature difference.

In conclusion, the torch thing is largely stupid as the hydrogen oxygen reaction doesn't generate enough heat to make a torch that is particularly practical. Worse, the amount of electricity required to run a significantly sized torch is staggering. Finally, this is old technology.

If he claims that he can build a car that will run off hydrogen electrolytically generated on board then his work is fraudulent.

If he's merely suggesting that he can improve vehicle efficiency by adding a bit of hydrogen/oxygen mixture to the engine intake, my own research shows this could be possible and at the anecdotal level seems to have an effect. If I was seeing a real effect, it appears to have been catalytic in nature as insufficient water is converted to significantly alter the energy balance of the engine running on gasoline.

If however, this guy or the idiot reporter is trying to conflate any of these three ideas then one or more of the people shown in this video are idiots IMHO.


04-20-2008, 04:38 PM
Let me take a wild guess and say that story aired on April 1st.;)

Mad Scientist
04-20-2008, 05:55 PM
No actually it has been around a lot longer then that.
And yes you can use it as a welding gas, however there are a number of other gases that would probably be more practical.
And yes you could run a car engine on it, if you can make enough of it. There are some who are trying to do just that.
And yes you can add small amounts to a car engine to improve mileage. This apparently is being done.

04-21-2008, 03:39 AM
Quick, lock the thread before all the nutters get in, Hydrogen & Dowsing attracts the buggers like s**t attracts flies:D

04-21-2008, 12:41 PM
Did anyone notice that they show a quick shot of an ammeter reading nearly 20 amps? How about the company working on a HUMV that runs on gasoline and Hydrogen? Military HUMVs run on diesel.


04-21-2008, 01:17 PM
Jewelers use little torches that run off of electrolyzers. Some of them use hypodermic needles for torch tips.

If you look around youtube there are some longer videos produced by the company. At the beginning of the video they show a water molecule with two oxygens and one hydrogen! OOPS!

They also show some guy making glass beads and using the system. He was complaining how he got bad looking beads from using acet. I dont know of any glass blowers that use acet. All of them use either natural gas or propane.

Cameron, your right about the welding quartz. I took some classes on technical glassblowing and they were using hydrogen to work some quartz tubes for some sort of reactor. Only thing that wont contaminate the quartz.

04-21-2008, 02:47 PM
C'mon you guys! Holy smoke! How can you doubt the guy without knowing if he stayed at a Holiday Inn the night before?? :D
What I really want to know is if you can find Hydrogen with divining rods...