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John Stevenson
04-30-2008, 08:06 AM
Here you go Tiffie, prices, specs and everything else.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/New-Products

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snowman
04-30-2008, 08:40 AM
Hey John...

Between the X1 and the X3, are there any differences in the dovetail dimensions? Are the dovetails in the X3 large enough to handle reasonable cutting loads? The X1 does not seem to be

torker
04-30-2008, 08:58 AM
John.. do you plan on having a distributor in North America?
That's some pretty decent specs on the bigger machine. I'm betting you sell lots of them! Errr... guess you already thought of that :D
Russ

sconisbee
04-30-2008, 09:27 AM
now they look nice, where do i sign up for a free sample?:D

oldtiffie
04-30-2008, 10:05 AM
Here you go Tiffie, prices, specs and everything else.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/New-Products

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Thanks John.

That is a very fine package at an excellent price. Support conditions, availability and costs are very good too.

You will be aware that I look like being stuck with a Seig X3 for reasons given in my:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=353655&postcount=97
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=353670&postcount=103

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=353768&postcount=120

oldtiffie
04-30-2008, 10:38 AM
I have just re-visited the Syil web-site on OZ.
http://www.syil.com.au/product_X4Plus.php

http://www.syil.com.au/Products.php

I feel that I have to re-examine this option.

Setting aside then name (Syil) is this a re-badged or copy of the Seig X4 or not?

If it is a copy, is it as good as the Seig?

Price at AU$6,450 (Australia/OZ) ~ US$6,000 ~ UKP2,600

Any comments will be appreciated.

John Stevenson
04-30-2008, 10:53 AM
Snowman.
The KX1 is a totally different animal from the X1.
It's a new base, table and column.
The column is like the X3 column, a big square box casting that bolts direct onto the base because unlike the X1 which is a bit skimpy, it has no need to tilt.

Torker, US agents will be appointed direct by Sieg, I have no say in any sales.

Tiffie,
The Syil machine is made for them at another factory in N China.
It's not a Sieg and Sieg don't do an X4.

If anyone want a MPG then just buy a Contour Design Shuttle for about $40 - $50 and plug the USB plug into your computer and Mach already has a plugin to accept it.

Lets you jog 4 axis in steps of 1.000, 0.100, 0.010 and 0.001 units.

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Timewarp
04-30-2008, 10:55 AM
Hi John, Is there any news on the belt drive kit for the X3 yet?

oldtiffie
04-30-2008, 10:59 AM
Thanks John.

More to mull over.

Alguy
04-30-2008, 01:53 PM
Well done Sir John I like it.. :D I enjoyed your article about Why to cnc, the last paragraph is good advice :D

HTRN
04-30-2008, 06:33 PM
Hmm, I wonder how much less the US price is gonna be than the GB price?($3700, and $5500, for the KX1 and KX3, repectively at todays exchange rate).

I think that the KX1, if they can get the price below $3K, they'll have trouble keeping them in stock.
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One thing I'm not crazy about is toolholding - If they were going to go with a retainer nut method, why bother with collets? Why not use NMTB 30 which I think would have been more popular. At least then you can have tools with preset lengths.


HTRN

oldtiffie
05-02-2008, 08:05 AM
I thought that I'd update everyone on where I am at and where it looks where I am going as regards a new CNC mill.

I am pretty sure I will be settling for the Seig Super X3 mill with a locally (OZ) produced retro-fitted CNC kit.

I have yet to settle on a CAM package.

I have 3 CAD systems (in order of preference):
- IMSI Design CAD 3D Plus;
- eMachineShop - courtesy of Steve; and
- AutoCAD 2004;

Thanks too to John Stevenson for his excellent advice and support.

Thanks too, to Swarf&Sparks (Lin) and lazlo for the excellent advice.

I have had a vast amount of good advice and good luck thus far.

I am not 100% committed to anything yet - but I suspect that it is getting close.

It might be helpful to review my previous relevant posts as a retrospective exercise at:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=353670&postcount=103
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=353768&postcount=120
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=353811&postcount=139
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=353820&postcount=141

As said, I went back to the Seig Super X3 as opposed to the Seig X3 at my supplier in OZ. I am waiting on an offer for the Seig Super X3 from their management on Monday/Tuesday next week.

X3:
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=M153

Super X3:
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=M155

Details of the Seig Super X3 (Posted previously) are:

This is the over-view from front right:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Seig_X3_mill/Seig_X3_1.jpg

This is the milling head from front right:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Seig_X3_mill/Seig_X3_2.jpg

This is the over-view from front-left:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Seig_X3_mill/Seig_X3_4.jpg

This is the capacity/capability plate:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Seig_X3_mill/Seig_X3_5.jpg

This is the front face of the milling head:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Seig_X3_mill/Seig_X3_6.jpg

It is looking very good indeed so far.

I asked at Hare and Forbes about a retro-fitted CNC and support by a local (OZ) supplier.

Jack-pot!!!

I was put onto the developer of the following web site and Seig X3 retro-fit web site.

I discussed the issues raised on this and other threads on this forum with him.

He makes and assembles the kits for fitting by the owner/buyer. He also supports the system. He recommended the Seig Super X3 over the X3 and the X4 as the Super X3 has the better build and features over the X3. He particularly wanted the manual quill with DRO on the Super X3 as it was just what is needed for drilling where sensitivity is needed such as with small drills and when drilling PCB's and the like. The quill can be clamped and so be the same/similar to the X4 when under CNC control. His system is a 3X (X,Y and Z) with an optional additional port to make it a X4.

The costs are very reasonable when compared to the Seig X3 and the Syil X4. The Seig is made in China and the support may be problematical and I am not at all comfortable with or confident of Syil support.

The option I will "go" for is the "full on" package.

This is the site of the package that I am most interested in but am as yet not finally committed to.

Advice and comment are requested and will be both valued appreciated.

http://www.cnckits.com.au/about.html

http://www.cnckits.com.au/details.html

http://www.cnckits.com.au/images.html

http://www.cnckits.com.au/pricing.html

http://www.cnckits.com.au/about.html

lazlo
05-02-2008, 10:47 AM
Congratulations Mick!

One thought about the X3 versus the Super X3: they're the same machine, but the SuperX3 has an upgraded milling head.

So on the Super X3 you get a 1 HP brushless DC spindle motor with a belt drive (as opposed to 3/4 HP and gear head on the X3), fine quill feed, and a digital touchpad with RPM display and a manual tapping function.

The brushless DC motor is very nice and has a lot more torque at lower RPM's, and I'm told the SuperX3 head is a lot quieter than than X3 head. But you probably won't use the rest of the SuperX3 features on a CNC retrofit.

Don't know the price differential in Au, but in the US (Grizzly), there's a $350 difference in price between the X3 and the SuperX3, or about a 30% increase in price.

Peter N
05-02-2008, 11:02 AM
Interestingly, one thing I've noticed is that the previous X3 conversion by John S (still listed on the ArcEuroTrade site) has much larger travels than the new factory KX3.
The JS conversion has 125mm+ X, 40+ Y, and 105+ Z, so a much large envelope.

Peter

lazlo
05-02-2008, 11:04 AM
Interestingly, one thing I've noticed is that the previous X3 conversion by John S (still listed on the ArcEuroTrade site) has much larger travels than the new factory KX3.

Interesting. There are two versions of the X3 floating around, the long table/travel version that Grizzly sells, and the short table/travel version that Harbor Freight sells.

I wonder if they based the KX3 on the short table version? Why the heck would they do that?!

oldtiffie
05-02-2008, 11:54 AM
Congratulations Mick!

One thought about the X3 versus the Super X3: they're the same machine, but the SuperX3 has an upgraded milling head.

So on the Super X3 you get a 1 HP brushless DC spindle motor with a belt drive (as opposed to 3/4 HP and gear head on the X3), fine quill feed, and a digital touchpad with RPM display and a manual tapping function.

The brushless DC motor is very nice and has a lot more torque at lower RPM's, and I'm told the SuperX3 head is a lot quieter than than X3 head. But you probably won't use the rest of the SuperX3 features on a CNC retrofit.

Don't know the price differential in Au, but in the US (Grizzly), there's a $350 difference in price between the X3 and the SuperX3, or about a 30% increase in price.

Thanks lazlo.

X3 = AU$1,675 ~ US$1,560
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=M153

Super X3 = AU$2,095 ~ US$1,950
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=M155

Difference = AU$420~ US$390

Function/feature difference details are as you advise.

I have emailed developer/provider tonight and expect a response, say Monday/Tuesday.

I have asked for:
1.
the Manual Pulse Generator feature and for it to be able to control all axis;

2.
4 axis;

3.
cost/availability of ground (instead of rolled) ball-screws.

4.
my Mach3 to be altered to suit his provided Mach3.

I'd appreciate any advice as to what ever else I should ask for or query.

I will have a new computer (XP) made up to his specs. He advises that XP is better than Vista which has problems with Mach3. It will be a desk-top with plasma screen. He advised that the computer not be on or isolated from the net-work and that MS upgrades and IE be either disabled or not installed.

I think I am off on another steep learning curve.

It might seem expensive but I have no skills in assembling parts and setting a CNC set-up to work.

All up cost is still less than some plasma TV screens were not so long ago.

I sure do wish I had an in-depth (or any??) knowledge of electronics and computers.

Things electrical are "white man's magic" to me. I was once told that there are 3 things that you can't see but which will sure as hell sneak up and whack me: AC, DC and JC. Seems to back up my experience!!

John Stevenson
05-02-2008, 04:35 PM
Well 2 and a half days hard slog and the first cabinet for the KX1 is finished.


http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/stand1.jpg


Oopps just noticed the catches are missing on the front.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/stand2.jpg

The KX3 cabinet is mainly made but at the powder coaters.

Minus 5 days and counting to Harrogate...............

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Peter N
05-02-2008, 04:47 PM
Looking good. I'm even more annoyed that I won't make Harrogate now, as I'd love to see these being demo-ed.
Got that Polyethylene melted yet?

Peter

John Stevenson
05-02-2008, 06:00 PM
Working on it Peter.
Tried using a small electric oven, like a toaster oven but it wasn't getting hot enought.
Argos do a rectangular deep fat frier with temp control but there web site is down so can't check local stocks.

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