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Doc Nickel
05-07-2008, 03:16 PM
Fate, once again showing it has a vile sense of humor, has thrown at me the possibility of a supposedly complete and running G&E Universal Shaper, cheap. On the side it says "20-24 Universal", has the vise- or at least A vise, which is pretty huge- and the seller says the table both pivots and swivels.

Again, I think I've seen this type/style spoken of and shown here and at PM, but again, not having one I didn't pay attention to specifics. What can you tell me about this thing? Pictures of nice ones?

First off, what's it likely weigh, what's some rough dimensions (length, width, height, etc.) and what's it likely powered by? (IE, 5hp 3phase, etc.)

How's the table work? I recall seeing a pic of a shaper with a table that had a huge solid rocker doodad, but then I also seem to recall somebody saying something about the difference between a "universal" and an "omniversal". Or maybe that was just a colloquialism...

Unfortunately, I think this may be too large both for my shop and floor, but I can't help trying to figure out where to put it. :D

Doc.

MickeyD
05-07-2008, 04:38 PM
There is a giant shaper thread in the General New forum on PM, and some discussion and pics of a 20" G&E (4800 pounds). Worth a search and read.

Michael Edwards
05-07-2008, 04:41 PM
Doc, here is a link to some pics of mine. Note the 28 and 24" are universal and the 16 and 14" are plain.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Old_American_Iron/index.php?showtopic=16

When I get home I can get you some specs on weight and size. I would guess about 6000-6500# off of the top of my head. Weight is dependant on vintage, newer = heavier. Seems like you have been drowning in sea of machinery as of late, nice. :D

ME

Michael Edwards
05-07-2008, 06:07 PM
I would guess about 6000-6500# off of the top of my head.

ME

WOW, I blew that. Looks like MickeyD wins the cigar, the 20-24" industrial universal is listed as 4800#
Stroke length 20 3/4"
Strokes per minute 10 - 130
Speeds 8 the newer ones were 16 speed
Horizontal travel 24"
Verticle travel 15 1/2"
Table size tilting - 13x15" solid 14x15 1/2"
Feed range .010 - .180"
Feeds 18
Head verticle travel 7"
Tool size 7/8 x 1 3/4"
Vise jaws size 2 5/8 x 14 1/4"
Max vise opening 13"
HP 3 - 7 1/2
Holds 7 gallons of lube oil
Overall length 95 1/2"
Overall width 48"
Overall heigth 61"

These numbers are from an older catalog, but they are probably pretty close.

ME

Michael Edwards
05-07-2008, 06:10 PM
FWIW, the 24" Heavy Duty is 7400#, so the one you are looking at is a lot more garage friendly. ;)


ME

MickeyD
05-07-2008, 09:14 PM
Doc, you don't just want that shaper - you need it. The little suckers are fun. I got a little 8" shape-rite last month and I am having more fun with it than all of my cnc machinery combined (probably new toy syndrome). If a 650 pounder is fun, that one should be at least 7 times more fun! Don't be scared, just do it (but don't tell your wife that we pushed you, she might cut off your internet connection).

Doc Nickel
05-07-2008, 11:20 PM
One- Not married. Shop space is more of a factor than marital bliss. :D

Two- Already have a 10" Lewis in fine shape. Just need to finish the new stand and drive.

Three- I was already looking at a 16" Stockbridge in pretty damn decent condition (although missing a few accessories, like the vise, table handles and ram lock handle) which is not only a tad cheaper (they're both cheap, really) but over five hundred miles closer. (Local gas is $4.17/gal.)

And four- the only reason I'm not on the road going to get it now, is I'm damn near stone cold broke. Even a great machine for dirt cheap is too expensive, when you can't even scrape together $10 to go see Iron Man. :D Lots of work in progress, but I'm at a pretty low point for the moment.

I wouldn't even bother asking about the G&E, as I figured the Stockbridge would already be more machine than I'd need, except I really like the idea of that "universal" pivoting table, and another 4" to 8" of stroke would be just icing on the cake.

On the other hand, though, that's even more bulk and weight, and it's 7-1/2 HP 3 phase. Add to the fact it'll be at least $500 in gas and over twenty hours in the saddle to go get it...

Doc.

Doc Nickel
05-08-2008, 05:29 AM
After some consideration, I'll probably have to pass on this one. It's just too big, too heavy, and comes at the exactly wrong part of the usual feast-and-famine cycle. Seller says there's others looking at it, and I already committed to that Nichols mill, so I can't justify it.

I have to admit I'm kind of surprised there's anyone else interested, though, but I suppose there's always some weld shop that needs to clean up big slabs of flame-cut plate or something.

Anyway, I already bought that 16" Stockbridge (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=27756) shaper (haven't hauled it home yet) and as I said above, I have the 10" Lewis (http://www.docsmachine.com/fabshop/shaperstand04.jpg) (have to finish the stand and drive) so it's not like I don't have a couple already. :D

Doc.

Michael Edwards
05-08-2008, 09:16 AM
Anyway, I already bought that 16" Stockbridge (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=27756) shaper (haven't hauled it home yet) and as I said above, I have the 10" Lewis (http://www.docsmachine.com/fabshop/shaperstand04.jpg) (have to finish the stand and drive) so it's not like I don't have a couple already. :D

Doc.

Speaking of Stockbridge, have you seen the video clip of one on Youtube? The video quality is low, but it is interesting none the less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU6fk1ZO994

ME

Michael Edwards
05-08-2008, 10:40 AM
Holy crap, I gotta start paying more attention. While looking at this thread and the thread on PM aboout your Stockbridge, I see that inwoodcutter posted the video and more. Wow, and I'm not even 40 yet, mumble mumble. :rolleyes:
ME

lazlo
05-08-2008, 11:40 AM
Wow Michael, that's an incredible collection! Forgive me, but this picture of your garage begs to be posted :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2326/1558017808_d4fce82cee.jpg

lazlo
05-08-2008, 11:50 AM
the only reason I'm not on the road going to get it now, is I'm damn near stone cold broke. Even a great machine for dirt cheap is too expensive, when you can't even scrape together $10 to go see Iron Man. :D

"“When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes.”" - Erasmus

"“When I get a little money I buy machine tools; and if any is left I buy food and movie tickets.”" - Doc Nickel

MickeyD
05-08-2008, 12:02 PM
Get all four of those puppies running at the same time and he could fire a broadside at the neighbors house... That would make chip control easier - just open the door and shoot em out.

Alistair Hosie
05-08-2008, 04:29 PM
Michael that's an impressive looking collection you are a man after my own heart good luck for the future kindest regards Alistair

rantbot
05-08-2008, 05:01 PM
Gould & Eberhardts are a dime a dozen on eBay. Almost literally - I see them sell for $1 (seriously!) to $50, with a very occasional flyer at maybe $500. The most common price is about $15. They're just too heavy and expensive to move.

Doc Nickel
05-08-2008, 05:33 PM
Oh, I know. Large shapers in general are typically dirt-cheap. They're heavy and bulky, slow to use, and few people know how to use them well- compared to those that can use a standard lathe or turret mill.

But this one was effectively local (in-state, anyway) and appeared in pretty decent condition. If I'd seen it on eBay, and it was located somewhere in the Lower 48, I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

Doc.

oil mac
05-08-2008, 06:30 PM
Wow --- four shapers, total overkill, I am envious, Gould & Eberharts, are lovely machines, In a par with the British Butlers, for excellence, glad you have saved them all from todays vandal ridden, so called efficient & trendy world, They are poetry in motion In fact in design ,they are amongst the high art of the 20th century mechanical industrial machine tools, totally undervalued and most efficient item of plant which nowadays recieves no credit Enjoy your nice machines, you think just like me i have two shapers, a nice 10" stroke Royal, & a 6" stroke travelling head Adept, if i had more space, i would have more

Michael Edwards
05-08-2008, 07:02 PM
Thanks guys for the kind words. It all started a couple years ago, I saw a shaper in the HSM magazine. I had never heard of a shaper so I checked it out online, wound up on the Yahoo shaper group, and started to get the shaper bug. Mean while, I was also getting tired of my crappy lathe, a Grizzley 4003 12x36 ( a lot of machine for $2000, but still not high quality machine tool) and even more tired of my ENCO round column ZX40 ( I hate end mill chips.) I wanted a shaper, I could see that for about the same price as a small atlas or logan I could get a full size machine -never mind shipping, forklift rental for offload, phase converter, I had BIG shaperitius. Then the 24" M&M G&E came up for auction, of course I couldn't pass that up, built in 79 with very little use and a box of tooling. Next thing ya know, I got four shapers, no more room in my garage, and my wife thinks I have a problem. There will be a lot of future projects just making parts and cleaning up the shapers, which is a good way for me to relax. I'm in no hurry. If I can make the part on a shaper instead of the mill I will, even if it takes longer. I just got the littlest one running this past weekend for the first time. It is the only one that I want to completely refurbish. I still need to make a decent chip catcher, cause the driveway is gravel, tough to collect them buggers after they have launched. One of these days I will get back to finishing a batch of full size bits for the big shaper, have em heat treated and post a video of it in action on youtube. So many projects, so little time. :rolleyes:

ME

Forrest Addy
05-08-2008, 11:02 PM
The G&E universal shaper is one of the finest machine tools of its type ever made and the 24" is a very convenient size. Scoop it if you have the room and SWMBO can be pursuaded. Bother the weight. 3 tons isn't hard to shift. Rent a forklift.

andy_b
05-09-2008, 09:51 PM
is this shaper running in reverse?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZYe-b-iGb0&feature=related

andy b.

Michael Edwards
05-09-2008, 10:00 PM
is this shaper running in reverse?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZYe-b-iGb0&feature=related

andy b.

Yes

ME

Forrest Addy
05-09-2008, 11:01 PM
No only yes but the oil pumps is sucking instead of blowing. The owner has to swap two leads of the three phase and reverse the motor. Sooner or later the ram will run dry and then he will be in a fix.

Michael Edwards
05-09-2008, 11:44 PM
Good point Forrest. And if you have an older shaper without pressure lube like in this pic, you still don't want to run backwards because your leverage is greatly reduced. You are already working with a third class lever, and the longer your stroke setting, the greater the difference in leverage. The last twenty seconds of that youtube video illustrate this a lot better than my explanation.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2065/1557829806_ad2b73aa63_b.jpg

ME

DICKEYBIRD
05-10-2008, 07:32 AM
...is I'm damn near stone cold broke. Even a great machine for dirt cheap is too expensive, when you can't even scrape together $10 to go see Iron Man.I feel your pain Doc. My financial situation has been worsening over the past 4 years and hobby purchases have had to be cut way back. Fortunately, I got a used lathe and found this board at the start of the cutback and have had great enjoyment while spending less overall than before.

Anyhoo, I know nothing at all about shapers other than what I've seen on the boards and YouTube but am curious about something. Why do they all seem to have those big, honking 3 sided t-slot tables? How are the tables used in most setups?

Michael Edwards
05-11-2008, 12:09 PM
Anyhoo, I know nothing at all about shapers other than what I've seen on the boards and YouTube but am curious about something. Why do they all seem to have those big, honking 3 sided t-slot tables? How are the tables used in most setups?


Think of it just like a milling machine table. The only limits are time and your imagination. Here is a link to some great shaper info. In paticular sections 6 and 7 deal with work holding, it's a great resource.

http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Shaper%20Work/


ME

jkilroy
05-12-2008, 04:24 PM
I have just such an item, and its a great piece. I like using it so much that I got rid of my little Southbend. Its just that easy to work small pieces on it even though you could chuck the Southbend in the vise! 16 or so speeds is quite nice, and the universal table is great.