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Mark Hockett
05-15-2008, 02:22 AM
I am really starting to get frustrated and even a little PO'ed. I had a very nice home and huge shop in CA but could not afford to run my machine shop business in CA because the cost of everything is so much higher, electricity, water, income tax, property tax, house payment Workman's comp and such. CA is not a very business friendly state, they wouldn't even let me run my shop from my home which was on 3 acres and in a rural area. So I moved here to WA on Whidbey Island. The move solved many of my problems with the cost of living and doing business, my power bill went from $500 a month to $90 and there is no state income tax and many other cost benefits. I am also able to have my business at my home.

So here's my problem, I have been trying to buy property for the last year so I can build a new home and most important a new shop. So a month ago I made an offer on a 5 acre parcel and it was accepted. A few days latter I get the CC&R's in the mail and I can't believe the restrictions, it was worse than most residential CC&R's, It was like the Gestapo wrote them. Needless to say I backed out of the deal on a feasibility issue.

I kept looking and two weeks ago I made an offer on a house that was on 2 acres and the offer was accepted. This time the contractor said no problem putting in a shop, he even positioned the house to optimize an out building. Well a few days later I get an envelope in the mail with the CC&R's and the largest building that can be built is 600sf, my garage would be bigger than that.

So Sunday my wife and I go look at another 5 acre parcel and this one is really nice. There are homes with large shops on two parcels on the same road so my shop shouldn't be a problem right? Tonight my agent emails me the CC&Rs' and they are the strictest ones yet. There were parking restrictions about parking any kind of trailer such as a boat or boat trailer, truck or RV outside. So that rules out my tractor or trailer that I haul my tractor on. There were animal restrictions such as no noisy animals, so if my dog barks I can get in trouble? There was a vegetative buffer that requires a 50 foot vegetative buffer along all property boundaries, which then makes the building site almost nothing, because of the layout of the parcel, and I was going to sell some of the timber to help pay for grading cost. There was a "no temporary structures" restriction, which makes it difficult to store stuff while building. No more than a year construction time is allowed. Any vehicle deemed to be inoperative for 30 days shall be removed. Can't work on boats or cars outside of a garage. It says you have to maintain the property in a reasonably presentable condition, so if I don't mow my lawn are they going to fine me? There is one that says non-muffled motorcycles, motor bike, trail bikes and similar vehicles are prohibited within the property. Another one even restricts any outdoor lighting, it must not adversely affect the night view of the adjoining properties. And the one that really got to me, and I don't even own a gun anymore, is no weapons such as firearms, bows, slingshots, BB guns, traps or any like weapons shall be used within the property. So I couldn't get a pellet gun and shoot it on my own property.

I think most of these rules are just fine in a residential neighborhood but we are talking about a 5 acre parcel in a rural area on an island where almost every 5th house has a shop, and there are many home based businesses, in a town with 959 people. This is not downtown Seattle or a bedroom community of Seattle.

Why do people feel the need to control what other people want to do on their own property. I don't care what the neighbor wants to do on his property as long as it is legal, thats why I live in a rural area. I value my freedom as I do his too. If he wants to park a junk car on his property thats OK with me, that's part of living in a rural area.

The problem is too many people are coming from the city and bringing their rules with them and its really screwing it up for people like me who enjoy the freedom associated with living in a rural area.

I really need to get moved in to a larger shop as my business is outgrowing the shop I am in now. I don't want to rent shop space as I don't want to commute and I don't want to buy a building for someone else.

Sorry about the rant,

dp
05-15-2008, 02:35 AM
That's just one of the problems with Puget Sound. I'm retiring to Oroville in Eastern Washington where the politics and life style are a bit more reasonable. And a train rolls through once a week in case I need anything really heavy!

mconlee
05-15-2008, 02:43 AM
maybe you need to look in oregon. there is an income tax, but no sales tax, and if you pick the right area, the property tax is not that high. there is such a thing as zoning variations.... alot easier to get than trying to convince a homeowners group to change their restrictions.

abn
05-15-2008, 03:13 AM
I hate that...I live in a residential setting but I chose my neighborhood exactly because of the large un-subdivided plots. But you can't build anything on it (600ft^2 max garage just like you), store anything on it, or have any hobbies that can't be fully contained in your house or garage. I do it anyway strategically camoflauged with fencing and trees...but it sucks to know that someone can tell me to quit and get rid of my stuff at any moment.

There has to be some place where people still value the freedom to do what you want on your property. Maybe Texas? I also wonder about moving into commercially zoned property...seems like it may be easier to to run your house from your business rather than the other way around?

Mark Hockett
05-15-2008, 04:31 AM
Dennis,
Some of the reasons we moved to the island are my wife wanted to be near the water, We both hated the heat in CA, we both hate dealing with traffic and we like the isolation the island gives us from the city, we don't even have a McDonald's here on the south end of Whidbey. If I need the city its a 20 minute ferry ride and the ferry runs every half hour.

mconlee,
We looked in OR before we moved to Whidbey. I grew up about 15 miles from where I live now so that is probably why we ended up where we did.

Davek0974
05-15-2008, 04:48 AM
Hi all,

sorry to hear about the problems, life is hard enough without that amount of rules & regs being laid on top.

Just to say that its not only in the US. We bought our current house last summer, forget about 5 acres, we dont have that much space over here! I liked it because it had a single garage built in and a double garage in the garden for my workshop.

In the smallprint it states 'no home businesses', 'no comercial vehicle outside', 'no caravans, trailers, motorhomes outside', 'gardens to be kept tidy' and several others, i cant even fit extra windows in the double garage! WTF?:eek:

Stuff that, i got some serious machinery in the garage, i run an ornate iron business from there as well, i'm building a half-size traction engine that will need a trailer, just wait 'till i get that beast steamed up and drive it round the town!:p

I hate this type of pressure, my home is my castle and within the bounds of manners, respect for others and common decency, i'll bloody do what i want in it!

Hope you get it sorted soon.

Dave

Evan
05-15-2008, 05:31 AM
About the only real restriction we have here is on the number of dead vehicles you are allowed to display. The regional district bylaw officer may start to nag you if you have more than 20 or so visible from off your property and somebody complains. They can also go after you if you have an unusual infestation of certified noxious weeds such as European thistle. You can't build a second residence but there isn't any restriction on outbuildings like a shop, barn, storage shed etc. I have 5 outbuildings and as long as they aren't on a permanent foundation ( pyramid blocks aren't considered permanent) you don't need to meet any code or get a permit either. In fact, up until a few years ago we didn't even have street addresses. Of course we also don't have sewer, water, street lights, sidewalks, lot line mail, garbage pickup, courier or pizza delivery. No fire department, no police patrols.

We like it this way.

Chipslinger
05-15-2008, 06:24 AM
There is a subdivision in Colorado where you can't mow your own yard, so every one hires it done, not only that but no basket ball poles,fixed or temp, a leash law for any animal, No small business and a few others that are just as silly.

speedy
05-15-2008, 06:53 AM
Life is sure getting more restricted Mark. It is making inroads here also:mad:
A few years back my son was in your country following the Superbike series(?). I recall he rang me one morning on my birthday from some godforsaken town (his words). He said "dad this country is screwed up, everywhere I go there are signs all over telling people that they cannot do this, cannot do that. land of the Free? bullsh*t!"
Best of luck in your search Mark.

Swarf&Sparks
05-15-2008, 07:17 AM
A certain Canadian band had it nailed, back in the 70's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Q7cP3ij5g

I'm by no means pointing fingers here, parts of Oz are as bad :(

hwingo
05-15-2008, 07:21 AM
Mark,
I feel your pain! Don't come to Wisconsin ..... our deer herd is sick with chronic wasting disease, streams are filled with fish dying from hemorrhagic virus, other fish are filled with toxic waste including mercury, taxes are horrible, and country living restrictions and regulations are untenable.

If you want to be near the water, suffer no state taxes, and have near total freedom to live the way you desire without foolish regulations and restrictions then give thought to Southeast Alaska. Prince of Wales, Wrangle, Ketchikan, Petersburg, Sitka, to name a few.

I lived in Craig, Alaska (Prince of Wales) for 4 years and that's as close to heaven as I will likely get. Tremendous Freedom!


Harold

snowman
05-15-2008, 07:36 AM
LMAO....welcome friend.

I still have a list of crap I need to do for this house before we get our "approval to reside here". I have to put a hand rail on the front porch steps (two of them) even though not another house on the block has a hand rail. I had to put five new plugs in the kitchen, because it had to be "brought up to code". I had to replace three outlet covers, because he didn't like how they looked. They made me replace a piece of concrete because it had a crack through the center. I had to either side or paint the garage, because it was old.

We also have rules on dogs, I'm not supposed to have more than two...oops. I'm not supposed to run a business out of the garage...oops. Nor am I supposed to have my well for irrigation...oops again. We also have the rules on outbuildings, but I don't have the cash to add on to my current outbuilding....or build another.

Definately a PITA, no matter how you look at it.

oldtiffie
05-15-2008, 07:47 AM
Not as bad here as it or was going to be - local up-set stopped the worst of it.

Watch out - those Planners, Greenies and fellow-travellers will have you living with battery hens, in ghetoes or on collective farms yet!!

Never mind "Big Brother" - its the "Nanny State" that will getcha!!

Misbehave annif ya lucky ya'll getcha choice of Gulag!!!

speedy
05-15-2008, 07:54 AM
2008?
Nah, it feels more like 1984 mate!

J Tiers
05-15-2008, 08:20 AM
City folks?

Nope, not just them, it isn't the person's location, it is their attitude.

I live in a city. We DO have a few dumb rules, and a few good ones about keeping the house up to snuff when it is sold.... There was blockbusting in the 1970's and the rules were made because people were selling out for pennies on the dollar (afraid of black folks, if blockbusting means nothing to you) and leaving the property trashed.

Aside from that, NO CCRs. The most obvious thing is not parking a truck on the street overnight if full of junk.... although it IS done, but aside from that, not much.

Other places around here even less.

No, the problem isn't city folks, it's "Yuppies"..... they are still around. They think the world revolves around them, and that they should never have to compromise with you... YOU should do all the compromising.

Trouble is, you moved to a place that is a magnet for Yuppies with money....

oldtiffie
05-15-2008, 08:29 AM
2008?
Nah, it feels more like 1984 mate!

Damn right Ken.
- Animal Farm?
- Old MacDonald's Farm?
- lunatics running the asylum?
- all of the above?

So much for your home being your castle - ever notice that jails look like castles (which have dungeons in 'em) and vice versa? Or just it just seem like it?

They're comin' for ya!!

Sorta makes you feel for the occupants of the Bastille doesn't it?

It isn't that you've been colonised - just that you've been colon-irrigated!! Or something!!

oldtiffie
05-15-2008, 08:38 AM
City folks?

........................................
.........................................

No, the problem isn't city folks, it's "Yuppies"..... they are still around. They think the world revolves around them, and that they should never have to compromise with you... YOU should do all the compromising.

Trouble is, you moved to a place that is a magnet for Yuppies with money....

Shame on you JT.

No respect for your "betters"!!

Here its not called "buy-up by "Yuppies" - if you don't mind - its called "Urban Renewal" or "Gentrification".

They by their own measure are doing you a favour - ungrateful type that you are!!

Well!! I never!!!

Sort of.

dp
05-15-2008, 09:20 AM
Dennis,
Some of the reasons we moved to the island are my wife wanted to be near the water, We both hated the heat in CA, we both hate dealing with traffic and we like the isolation the island gives us from the city, we don't even have a McDonald's here on the south end of Whidbey. If I need the city its a 20 minute ferry ride and the ferry runs every half hour.

Exactly the reasons I moved here from CA (that, and the crowding). That was 1978. It's sure changed a lot since then. Unfortunate that the Skagit and Whidbey areas seem to have leaped further ahead in urban regulation than most places in the state. I used to go waterfowl hunting up there every year but it's just too crowded now, and the parking areas are hotspots for vandals who don't want hunters in their area.

Testimony to what a beautiful place it is, certainly, but that kind of draw for people surely brings the problems you're now experiencing.

We will definitely have to deal with the heat although that area is often called the Canadian Banana Belt - warmer by far than much of Canada but not oppressively so. The winters are colder than Puget Sound, though, and I don't like cold :p. Some day time will catch up there, too, and everyone will become a busy body wishing to control what you do with your free time. I can already see it creeping in.

Ries
05-15-2008, 09:38 AM
Dennis, what you say is true about Whidbey, but dont go lumping us Skagitonians in that mix.

Whidbey is a bit unique- besides being the fifth longest island in the USA, it also has a funny history, and a unique desirability that makes it so unusual.
It has a ferry, AND a bridge. It has lots of wealthy retirees and second homes, and then a whole bunch of low paid military families as well.
But I think your main problem is the land there is mostly one big rock, so there was never any viable farming. A couple of little valleys had farms, but in general, it was empty scrub woods and beach cabins til the 70's at least. So most of the population is there for "lifestyle" reasons, and thus the CCR's.

Come up the road 50 miles or so, to Skagit, and you have an entirely different mindset- we have had good old boys collecting dead cars since the car was invented. We have a goodly collection of tarheels as well, imported from the Carolinas in the twenties, to log our woods, and they are real partial to living in half burnt out mobile homes with their biggest status symbol being how many discarded consumer items they can display within 100 feet. Then, we have all the guys who cant afford Lynnwood anymore, and want a place to collect internal combustion engines- RV's, Dirt Bikes, Snowmobiles, Boats, and Quads, a Kubota, and a truck or three to pull em all.

Not all of Western Washington is the same- I have no CCR's, and it costs me a big $85 and ten minutes to pull the permit for the last pole barn I built, which put me up to about 10 buildings, ranging from 50sq ft to 2500sq ft, on my property. Ahh, you gotta love it when the big real estate developers totally corrupt your county commissioners, and to quote Alastair Crowley, "Everything is Permitted".
Well, except when I see the hideously ugly sprawl of WalMarts, Outlet Malls, and Home Depots that crowd along the I-5 corridor with all the charm of a Herpes Sore.

Anyway, you gotta pay to play- and when you pick a beautiful, unspoiled, convenient island with hardly any crime, poverty, or urban sprawl, there is a reason why that is- the "pull up the gangplank, I'm aboard" attitude of rich people who can afford the lifestyle.

I had similar experiences in Ojai California, one of the most beautiful places on God's Green Golfball- food drops off the trees there and rolls into your yard, the weather is perfect, the beach is twenty minutes away, the mountains ten minutes, there are natural hot springs in the river, the town is sleepy and beautiful- and its populated by movie stars and rich people, who have the money to live how they want, and how they want is quaint- and this means you, or in my case, me.
My buddy Jeff Sanders went and screwed everything up there when he built his 10,000 sq ft home shop- and his neighbor, an ex-secretary of the Navy, marched right down to the County Hall and got the law changed, for all of Ventura County, so that the new maximum size for an outbuilding, unless you had hearings, was 1000 sq ft.
I moved out of California shortly after.

There are just too many people in this world, especially highly mobile ones with money, for many beautiful places to be wild and free any more- they are all somebody's playground, and there are almost always rules.

planeman
05-15-2008, 10:09 AM
Please, PLEASE don't come to the sunny South where life is good and people mind their own business. Too many others are coming and are beginning to screw up a good thing! :)

Planeman
Atlanta, GA

MTNGUN
05-15-2008, 10:26 AM
I live on the other end of the spectrum. No building permits, not much of any regulations.

This is a beautiful pristine mountain area.

And then a neighbor built a metal aircraft hanger the size of a Walmart. It looks like it belongs in an industrial park. He uses it a few days a year (rich dude). The rest of the year it just sits there and looks ugly.

Two neighbors parked trailers on their property. Trailer court, here we come.

Several neighbors slapped gates across the community access road. There is no regulation stopping them from doing so.

Another neighbor grazes her land (and courtesy of our open range law, she also grazes on other people's unfenced land) down to bare dirt, driving the deer and elk away.

The county does not require a perc test. Most of the area would never pass a perc test, and probably should have never been approved for development.

Power lines, instead of being routed along the access road, zig zag every which way, like in a 3rd world country.

One neighbor is thinking about raising pigs. Oh boy, a pig farm, just what I always wanted in my neighborhood.

Mind you, I am not perfect, either. My house usually looks like a construction zone, because it is. I have a rifle range on my property. I do work out of my home but my shop is made of native stone and logs, so it looks halfway attractive.

I never thought I would say this, but I look forward to the day when my neighborhood has a properties owners association to regulate some of the worst practices. I would go for a ban on metal buildings and trailers, a limit on the number and types of animals per acre, and certainly rules respecting the community access road. Nothing as nit picky as what you have in a big city, just a little common sense.

Evan
05-15-2008, 10:41 AM
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as "common sense". Common sense is really what you think is the right thing to do. It very likely won't be what they think is right and that is were the real problems begin.

lakeside53
05-15-2008, 10:56 AM
Mark - don't give up.. yes, it sucks to have your hopes dashed, but not all properties are as restrictive. I live in an upscale neighborhood (just across the water from you...) of 1 to 5 acres, and on a lake. My CC&R's have few material restrictions.... Apart from minimum house size of 1600 square feet, just the usual vague "right of quiet enjoyment" which means "don't do anything noisy, dirty, obnoxious etc that affects the neigbors..." but.. they'd have to prove it anyhow. With that in mind, I can put up any structure that is legal in the county.


Andy

GKman
05-15-2008, 11:07 AM
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as "common sense".

Of course there is "common sense". It's what me and people that agree with me agree that it is.:cool:

Evan
05-15-2008, 11:13 AM
just the usual vague "right of quiet enjoyment"

That doesn't mean what most people think it means. It has nothing to do with how your property looks or what noise anybody makes. It's a legal term that means you may not be harrassed by anyone such as a landlord or inspector for no good reason. It means that the city for instance can't just show up at your place with no reason to go on a fishing trip for code violations.

lakeside53
05-15-2008, 11:24 AM
That doesn't mean what most people think it means. It has nothing to do with how your property looks or what noise anybody makes. It's a legal term that means you may not be harrassed by anyone such as a landlord or inspector for no good reason. It means that the city for instance can't just show up at your place with no reason to go on a fishing trip for code violations.


yes... but in our case it is also directed at the individual homeownes activities with respect to the other members of the community.

Smokedaddy
05-15-2008, 11:25 AM
Why do people feel the need to control what other people want to do on their own property.

I can answer that one ... One Man's Junk is Another Man's Treasure.

-SD:

Rif
05-15-2008, 11:28 AM
Snip

Mind you, I am not perfect, either. My house usually looks like a construction zone, because it is. I have a rifle range on my property. I do work out of my home but my shop is made of native stone and logs, so it looks halfway attractive.

I never thought I would say this, but I look forward to the day when my neighborhood has a properties owners association to regulate some of the worst practices. I would go for a ban on metal buildings and trailers, a limit on the number and types of animals per acre, and certainly rules respecting the community access road. Nothing as nit picky as what you have in a big city, just a little common sense.

Well, this is how it begins. You don't want somebody to have a hog farm, somebody else doesn't want an industrial looking building, and somebody else doesn't want a rifle range. The next thing you know, you need to get a permit to let your grass grow longer than 2 inches and forget having an extra "parts car" in your back yard.

Unfortunately, the words "Land of the Free" are becoming more of a marketing slogan than everything else. The price of freedom is tolerance. In order to be able to do most anything on your property we all have to accept the fact that our neighbor would have the same freedom.

I personally bought a house where there isn't a HOA because I would have a very low tolerance for being fined because I decided to put my garbage can out at the curb the night before. I have enough headaches without worrying about whether my grass will grow too long if I go on vacation. I like my freedom and accept the fact that a neighbor could turn their yard into a wheat field and raise hogs, if they would like. This is the price of freedom.

I would love to be able to live in an area where there are no building permits. I like to do things myself and just the idea of asking permission to make a change to my own property makes my blood boil. Who's property is it if I need to get permission to make changes?

Karl Marx would be proud of what Amerika has become.

Brian

Evan
05-15-2008, 11:56 AM
yes... but in our case it is also directed at the individual homeownes activities with respect to the other members of the community.
If those words are used in a covenant with that intended meaning it won't hold up in court.



Definitions of quiet enjoyment

A legal term meaning that you will be left alone.
www.weown.net/glossary_of_Coop_terms.htm (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=X&start=0&oi=define&q=http://www.weown.net/glossary_of_Coop_terms.htm&usg=AFQjCNEy-sgXSBMrFojEXxRIl_BqqXG0ZQ)
The legal right of an owner to use and enjoy property without interference of possession by someone with a superior title.
www.rentv.com/index.cgi (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=X&start=1&oi=define&q=http://www.rentv.com/index.cgi%3Fp%3Dglossary_q&usg=AFQjCNEWcSy81Itp7sOaYoR899bF-tPQ5w)
This allows the tenant to possess the accommodation he has leased without interference from the landlord.
www.mustard.uk.com/MustardFiles/propertyjargon.asp (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=X&start=2&oi=define&q=http://www.mustard.uk.com/MustardFiles/propertyjargon.asp&usg=AFQjCNFCxSrrlMQg74N0YsIKp12LiXd2ow)
An assurance whereby a new owner or renter will enjoy the use of real estate without any defects on the title
www.johnsabia.com/Real-Estate-Terms-beginning-with-Q.php (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=X&start=3&oi=define&q=http://www.johnsabia.com/Real-Estate-Terms-beginning-with-Q.php&usg=AFQjCNFXXZZwmnBCgu3O4VzQcQwHeDuDNA)

gnm109
05-15-2008, 12:02 PM
Dennis,
Some of the reasons we moved to the island are my wife wanted to be near the water, We both hated the heat in CA, we both hate dealing with traffic and we like the isolation the island gives us from the city, we don't even have a McDonald's here on the south end of Whidbey. If I need the city its a 20 minute ferry ride and the ferry runs every half hour.

mconlee,
We looked in OR before we moved to Whidbey. I grew up about 15 miles from where I live now so that is probably why we ended up where we did.


No McDonald's...no deal!

On a more constructive note, may I suggest that you do some research regarding CCR's before making any more offers on real property in your area? As a general rule, those are recorded as part of a development plan and are always available for review by the prospective buyer.

If you don't do your review prior to making an offer, it's possible that you will be surprised rather frequently. Not only that, it's not always that you wil be able to back out of a transaction after making an offer since you would be charged with knowledge of the CCR's under the theory of constructive knowledge.

CCR's are also called negative equitable servitudes. They are considered to run with the land and everyone who buys land so encumbered is required to abide by them. They are extremely difficult to overcome in Court and would require 100% agreement of everyone in the area to change them.

As to the reason why CCR's are done, they are frequently an attraction to some possible buyers. There are people who don't like firearms, motorcycles, airplane runways, home business, ham antennae, etc. and they will pay extra to avoid them.

My 2 cents. :)

PaulF
05-15-2008, 12:13 PM
Mark,
I don't think it is city people always. I live next door to you in Clallum county between Sequim and Port Angeles.
Right near me some people from Calif. bought 2.5 acres, put up a Gypsy camp,
brought in 5 old trailers, built a pump house out of old ping pong tables, clear cut all the 100' tall Doug firs and blue tarps everywhere. They are now trying to sell the mess for 280K.
Sometimes people already in an area make those restrictions to stop more development, even if it is similar to what is grandfathered in just to put on the brakes! I know this does not represent you, but some of these small rural communities consider this a hoard of locusts devouring every piece of real estate, then sell to developers at a huge profit. This bumps the taxes out of sight and completely changes the flavor of the area.

I have a permit to carry a pistol concealed and can fire a 3.5 rocket launcher if I want, in Clallam county you can build a 400 square foot shed with no permit at all! However when the houses are packed in here 25' apart, all those pesky trees are gone and the developers leave with their money that's when the restrictions will creep in!!!

Out here there aren't many restrictions....but I can see them just around the corner as more wealthy move in and clear all the trees, build Wall marts and plant lawns. They are even trying to figure out how to "move" a local Elk herd because they eat the ornamental plants!

This is progress...enjoy.
PaulF

dp
05-15-2008, 12:14 PM
Dennis, what you say is true about Whidbey, but dont go lumping us Skagitonians in that mix.


Keep a wary eye on what happens in La Conner and Anacortes. North and east isn't too bad away from running water and lakes, but that whole gentrified life style dream coupled with Washington's above average incomes is going to bring change and loonies like Ron Simms. It's even happening in Cle Ellum.

A friend tried what Mark did - wanted to buy some land and build a shop on it. Lordy you'd have thought he'd asked to build a dynamite plant for all the hell he got. The "trees" on the property are just scraggly weed trees, but he was not allows to clear them for a foundation, and there were streams running across the land such that it was impossible to do anything useful with any of the 5 acre parcel. He defaulted and took his loss. This was north of Snohomish.

Willy
05-15-2008, 12:39 PM
Mark I too feel your pain.
Everybody wants to live in a park and think you should too. Who do they think is going to pay for all of it? Small home based business is starting to be the backbone of our countries...why choke the goose that lays the golden egg? I can see restrictions that would for instance curtail noisy industrial activity in residential areas, but this is ridiculous.

I've lived in California and Seattle before and that was before it got crazy.
Movin up here and becoming a hick has sure increased the quality, if not the quantity, of my life.

I am reminded of a trip I took through Oregon about twenty five years ago, saw a bumper sticker that said it all...it read..."PLEASE DON"T CALIFORNICATE OREGON".

Good luck Mark in finding a suitable site.

Scishopguy
05-15-2008, 12:52 PM
Mark...I think what the root of the problem is, is that most of us (the makers and fixers) are pretty much self sufficient and most of the city folks that move out to the country are not. They hear about how nice it is out in the country and want to experience that life. The problem is that they need city services to survive and feel the need to bring all that baggage with them. They could not deal with burning their own trash, handling wild animals, or keeping their property secure from thieves and vandals. Their answer is to force the locals to adapt to their shortcomings. One of the young fellows in the little town in Arkansas that I bought property in told me that he hated all of us outsiders coming in and screwing up his home. I told him in no uncertain terms that my values were in line with his and that I would have no negative impact on the area. I was there because my home was screwed up by outsiders. I know the walk down the "slipery slope" to civilization. It is a trap. What is demanded to keep things nice is NO NEW TAXES, NO NEW SERVICES, AND REJECTION OF ANY POLITICIANS THAT WANT TO MAKE YOUR LIFE BETTER. (rant mode off:) We just have to hold the line against the "foam rubber world yuppies" that need to be taken care of by government.

best of luck with your search. I know what you are going through.

dockrat
05-15-2008, 01:06 PM
Scishopguy....Jim your KB4IVH thing looks like an amatur radio call sign. If so....73....VE7ERN

lazlo
05-15-2008, 04:18 PM
Please, PLEASE don't come to the sunny South where life is good and people mind their own business.


There has to be some place where people still value the freedom to do what you want on your property. Maybe Texas?

Not Texas.

Dallas, Houston and Austin are major Yuppie Zones, and most residential areas have restrictive covenants. I haven't received any complaints, but my "shop" is in my 2-car garage, so I keep the door down, even in the Summer, because I've had friends that have gotten into trouble with with the homeowner's association over metalworking equipment (but it's OK to have woodworking equipment :confused: ).

kc5ezc
05-15-2008, 09:03 PM
Mark and others with CCRs that you deem unnecessary: Please consider moving to beautiful Byng OK. Hot in the summer, cold in the winter, and is usually too wet or too dry. But...If you own it do with it what you want. If your neighbor doesn't like it, you and he can reach an agreement, usually without outside help. We are a bedroom comunity with ranching, and oil production as our major activities. No planning and zoning at this time, but the town council is making noises about that. So come down here soon. You can be grandfathered in!
John Burchett
Mayor,
Town of Byng OK

wierdscience
05-15-2008, 10:01 PM
I was wondering where all the communists went when the Berlin Wall fell,turns out they all moved here and formed HOA's:mad:

I'm lucky,I've lived in the same spot for 30 years and between my brother and I we own 20+ acres.We had trouble with some of our moved in yuppie neighbors,but the law is on our side here since they have no right to impose anything on us.I don't keep a pig farm,but I do have trucks,tractors and heavy equipment in the yard.They moved in knowing what I had in the yard and thought if they built a $300,000 house that I would do the same,wrong.

I had one neighbor lady who tried to get the other's to form a HOA and put pressure on us,but that died quick when I informed her and the others that I infact owned the road infront of their houses(it even has my name on it) and that since they assumed access I had legal right to deny them access until they bought it from me and I had the right to charge up to 2-1/2 times the market value for that access:D

I wasn't mean or nasty to her,I just told her I could be either the nicest guy in the world or if she insisted the biggest a--hole in history take her pick.

Over the last few years we have got along fine and nothing more has been said.The county tried to start some more BS rules and regs last summer,but since the county is mostly populated by people who left the city because of such BS the voters didn't tolerate such silly talk and voted all but one county supervisor out of office:D

wierdscience
05-15-2008, 10:04 PM
Not Texas.

Dallas, Houston and Austin are major Yuppie Zones, .

Heh,I have a friend that lived in Austin up until a year ago,he moved because of his job and because it is now a suburb of Berkley,Ca:D

Evan
05-15-2008, 10:15 PM
and because it is now a suburb of Berkley,Ca

No joke. My sister lives there (out of town a bit). She was born in Berkeley...:cool: Has a lavender farm.

Dawai
05-15-2008, 10:27 PM
{quote}Please, PLEASE don't come to the sunny South where life is good and people mind their own business.{/quoted} (in HOT lanta?)

HUH? Just wait till Freaknik... used to be the southern pot festival, taken over and renamed by the black hordes who pilgrimage to the city for a week of fun. Psst... it's still a pot festival.. THousands get arrested there and on the interstate 75..

Davek0974
05-16-2008, 02:27 AM
I haven't received any complaints, but my "shop" is in my 2-car garage, so I keep the door down, even in the Summer, because I've had friends that have gotten into trouble with with the homeowner's association over metalworking equipment (but it's OK to have woodworking equipment :confused: ).

I've seen that before, it appears that woodworking is a 'clean, wholesome' type of business run by ex bank managers etc, metalworking or engineering is seen as being a noisy, smelly, offensive type of buisiness run by low-life degenerates!

It dont make sense as most of my machinery is far quieter than planers, routers, spindle moulders etc.

Dave

Swarf&Sparks
05-16-2008, 06:15 AM
"woodworking is a 'clean, wholesome' type of business"

Yup, I've been in both. (metal and wood)
1/2" and 1/4" routers, 9" table saw, and 10/12 mitre saw, 12" thicknesser......

Peaceful, contemplative hobby, right? :rolleyes:

At least now I can even work at night. 9" lathe makes as much noise as a sewing machine and TIG welder makes none :D

oldtiffie
05-16-2008, 08:06 AM
I've seen that before, it appears that woodworking is a 'clean, wholesome' type of business run by ex bank managers etc, metalworking or engineering is seen as being a noisy, smelly, offensive type of buisiness run by low-life degenerates!

It dont make sense as most of my machinery is far quieter than planers, routers, spindle moulders etc.

Dave

Hi Dave.



..............................
...........................
...it appears that ...................................... metalworking or engineering is seen as being a noisy, smelly, offensive type of buisiness run by low-life degenerates!


Damn right it is!!

Hey, that's a pretty good description of me and/in my shop!!!

I sure hope so or else I've wasted a hell of a lot of money, effort and time in getting it all together to match me!!!

It's getting better by the day!!

Bliss!!

Heaven on Earth!!

Davek0974
05-16-2008, 08:27 AM
Hi Dave.



Damn right it is!!

Hey, that's a pretty good description of me and/in my shop!!!

I sure hope so or else I've wasted a hell of a lot of money, effort and time in getting it all together to match me!!!

It's getting better by the day!!

Bliss!!

Heaven on Earth!!


:D :D :D ROFLMAO