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loose nut
05-17-2008, 08:10 PM
I have a mill/drill to sell and I was wondering what the best way to do this is. I don't want to get tied into E-bay, to many problems, the local Model Engineer club put a notice in there news letter with 1 reply that didn't go anywhere and I put an ad on Craigslist in a nearby city but since I live in a small town there isn't much of a demand for it locally. Other than putting ads in the local area papers and expanding the ads in craigslist to more distant areas what can be done.

CCWKen
05-17-2008, 08:30 PM
Maybe you're asking too much for it or you didn't post a price at all. A good buy will bring inquiries even for mill/drill. Pictures always help too. You didn't say how long you've been advertising it but I would continue. Don't sell eBay short. Many folks go there first when looking for machines.

JRouche
05-17-2008, 09:07 PM
Yeah, a properly priced item will sell its self. I sell (and buy) alot on ebay. I always list items at the minimum, one cent. The items always bid up to market value and thats all expect to get, market value.. JR

Mcgyver
05-17-2008, 09:14 PM
Other than putting ads in the local area papers and expanding the ads in craigslist to more distant areas what can be done.

that and drop the price......what pircehave you got it out at?

the only two things you can do are reach more people and make a more compelling offer. I am often astounded at how high kijiji and craiglist sellers expectations are .....so i just let the high price stuff sit and watch the adds get reposted week after week and pounce on the stuff at 5-25% of its new price, if in good condition.

The challenge in selling anything used with a narrow market like machining stuff is its really hard to find the guy who woke up that morning needing exactly what you have. If you cant' find him, you've got to price induce a sale. There's lots of guys on kijiji moaning about lowballers and not selling their stuff, well maybe they're the problem, damn highballers! lol. I am going to have to get even cheaper with my approach, I'm having too many so yeah ok.

Bill Pace
05-17-2008, 10:22 PM
The market here in this area can be a bit weird, I've run a couple items, -- one a mill-drill, and totally bombed with newspaper & Craigs, until I put them in the local "thrifty nickel/penny saver" (got another name, but its still called the thrifty nickel from years past) and started getting responses on, and sold within a week or so. Couple friends with similar experience.

GKman
05-18-2008, 08:56 AM
Look for a Ebay selling service in your area (or maybe not in your area). They handle the listing etc for a fee. Just don't expect top dollar, quick sale, no hassle. You have to pick from that list.

loose nut
05-18-2008, 02:07 PM
I was asking $450.00 for it and throwing in a complete clamping kit with it, I don't consider it to much considering that it is in pretty good condition (paints is chipped around the base and it has one divot on the table, works great, no problems with the motor).

The main problem here is that I live in a town of 3000 and so there is a limited market in this area, that's why I posted to Craigslist in the nearest city, I'm going to post to lists on cities farther away.

I did get two replies, one came to look at it and hasn't called back ( he's an older gent and doesn't think could get it into his basement). The other was just an inquiry to see if it's still available. Who knows.

This is a bit of a specialized hobby and the number of people looking for equipment isn't that great.

Nick Carter
05-18-2008, 03:48 PM
I had a similar problem selling a 6" Atlas I had sitting around for way too long. Not enough local interest, but too heavy to ship. Recently I got back into the airgun hobby so I came up with the bright idea of posting it for trade only/local pickup on one of the airgun classified forums. Just completed a very nice trade for it. I was going to end up spending the money on airguns anyway, and this way it short circuits the tendency to hoard money for useless stuff like food and bills.

So if you have any other hobbies that you need stuff for, see if you can wrangle a specialized trade...

Swarf&Sparks
05-18-2008, 04:00 PM
Nick makes a good point.
Try your local phone book for clubs/associations that may use machine tools.
Live steam, rifle clubs, old engine freaks, maybe even local youth groups.

If anything like Oz, the high schools sold anything resembling tools years ago.
Now there's a bunch of kids hanging out to get their hands on something physical.

Foidermore, we now have a skill shortage in this area (heavy industrial, refineries and shipyards) and the schools and colleges have been turning out bean-counters for the last 10 years.
Result, the bean counter kids are asking "fries with that?", and the dumb bastids that stuck with manual skills are driving $40 000 4wds and have 3 investment properties.

Keep the torch burning.
The worm has turned!

Sorry, rant finished :)

Chester
05-18-2008, 04:28 PM
Try The "Triad News" sold at most convenience stores and on line, and it is FREE.

http://www.buysell.com/classifieds/SW_Ontario.html

While you are at the store look at the other Auto Trader Magazines....... in the past I have sold some weird stuff in them, that brought no offers elsewhere (Coin-op washers and dryers).

Is that a Busy Bee mill drill?

loose nut
05-18-2008, 11:56 PM
Is that a Busy Bee mill drill?

Yes it is.

loose nut
05-19-2008, 12:04 AM
Nick makes a good point.
Try your local phone book for clubs/associations that may use machine tools.
Live steam, rifle clubs, old engine freaks, maybe even local youth groups.

If anything like Oz, the high schools sold anything resembling tools years ago.
Now there's a bunch of kids hanging out to get their hands on something physical.

Foidermore, we now have a skill shortage in this area (heavy industrial, refineries and shipyards) and the schools and colleges have been turning out bean-counters for the last 10 years.
Result, the bean counter kids are asking "fries with that?", and the dumb bastids that stuck with manual skills are driving $40 000 4wds and have 3 investment properties.

Keep the torch burning.
The worm has turned!

Sorry, rant finished :)

I,ve already talked to the local clubs, there pretty much equipped.

In school years ago the "bright" kids all went to collage and the "losers" were send to shop classes to be baby sat because the schools didn't think we were worth spending time on, so we ended up in the trades. I'm making twice as much as most of the collage grads are, tradesmen are in short supply hear so the jokes on them.

Ya gotta love it!

RancherBill
05-20-2008, 01:45 PM
The one that I like is BuySell.om (http://www.buysell.com/) It's free and has got very good results for me.

studentjim
05-22-2008, 09:43 PM
Try kijiji.ca and look for the nearest city to you . It's free and I've had great results.

John Lawson
05-22-2008, 11:07 PM
Don't get sucked into selling for too low a price. You will find two kinds of prospective buyers (I have) They are 1. Chiselers and 2. Those who are looking for a good machine, not a bargain they can resell for a profit.
Let the chiselers victimize widows and orphans (someting they are really good at) and wait out the one in a thousand buyer who will truly appreciate what you have and is willing to pay a fair price for it.
When I'm selling something, the minute a prospective buyer begins to belittle the item or tell me how his brother in law can get him one wholesale, I don't waste another second on them. I open the door and motion for them to exit, stage left.
Otherwise, give it to somebody you like.

pcarpenter
05-22-2008, 11:34 PM
Only two kinds of buyers, huh? Those who are chislers and those who see that in your infinite wisdom you must be right about the amount you are asking for your stuff :rolleyes:

It is yours. You are entitled not to sell it. I have, however, seen plenty of folks who clearly (from the price) were so attached to their stuff that they really did not want to sell it. Remember, in any market, the buyers determine what something is actually worth. Its worth whatever it will sell for. I have just about given up on gun shows. In my area guys have junk priced well beyond what is reasonable. They sit at their tables grumbling because no one is buying. All the attendees are wondering around grumbling about prices.

I agree that badmouthing a guys stuff is bad form. However, when someone is overpriced, its not unreasonable to point out both bad and good as points that should help determine value for the item. I have adopted the policy of telling a seller who has something unreasonably priced, that I will not be offended if he tells me to go jump in a lake if he is not offended by my making what I see as a reasonable offer. By the same token, if something is priced reasonably from the start, I think its probably bad form to go about trying to get it cheaper still. Unfortunately, I see fewer and fewer folks who can look at their own stuff with a sense of realism.

Paul

J Tiers
05-23-2008, 12:05 AM
Just as a point, Mr Lawson is the one who posted some time ago about an Atlas selling for $3000, and being considered a good deal by the purchaser..... because it is "worth it".

The whole "worth" thing is one that I don't like...... When someone asks me if I don't think the item is "worth" what they are asking, I know they are really trying to make me feel cheap....

"Worth" has more meanings than "is" at Bill's place.

The fact that a the same functionality in a new machine might cost $3000, does not mean that a used Atlas will SELL for $3000.....

The fact that both may "function" equally, tends to suggest that they are "worth" the same..... in terms of work performed. But you will suffer a lot of ridicule if you try to get what the machine is "worth" on that basis.....

So I may, if I wish, reply to the seller "what it is "worth" and what you can "get for it" are two different things"........ Or I might just say "No I don't."

John Lawson
05-23-2008, 03:30 AM
My table at the gun show has a card rading: "No sales to Dealers."
When a machine tool goes out of production, it is wheelers and dealers that escalate the price rapidly. Same goes for guns. I've been going to the gun shows for over 50 years and familiar items are now priced beyond belief. That, I would surmise, is the result of demand outstripping the supply.
I have seen many examples of a sale in the early morning being transplanted to another table at twice the price. And, the Blue Book of Gun Values is totally ignored.
Value, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, in the final analysis.
My point made above was to shun the shysters and look for a potential buyer who will appreciate the care, accessories and improvements you have given a machine, or a gun or whatever. I did not advocate overpricing the item. You can see what they go for on eBay or in the magazine ads, average the prices and price yours accordingly. I simply do not like to deal with businessmen who claim they are not in business, especially those who rob widows and orphans and brag about their dealings.
And, a word to those who buy machine tools, guns or anything else on speculation: The law is, if you buy an item and sell or trade it for more than you paid, you must declare the profit as income and pay tax thereon. And, yes, you are required to keep records. You can call your local IRS and confirm this. Those who do not, are committing a crime punishible by fine and or imprisonment. I'm absolutely required to obey that law because I have a business license, but I know many who regularly and habitually cheat on their taxes. I'm not an income tax cop so I leave enforcement to the ATF and IRS and discovery to the increasing number of undercover agents who prowl the gun shows and squeal on the cheaters.
If this displeases anyone, change human nature and/or the tax laws.
I think somebody is missing another point: It isn't that things are getting more valuable, so much as it is a matter of our currency devaluing rapidly. In 1939, a hamburger cost five cents; in 1954 it cost nineteen cents; today it is six bucks and change.

John Lawson
05-23-2008, 03:45 AM
Jerry, I really don't remember making a post like that.

loose nut
05-24-2008, 03:39 PM
Just an update, I have a buyer who saw the mill on Craigslist and is suppose to pick it up tomorrow, and I've just received another inquiry also from Craiglist. This only took a couple of weeks, I'm suprised how fast it sold.:D :D

J Tiers
05-24-2008, 09:21 PM
If Mr Lawson says he isn't the one, I believe him..... It would have been on a Yahoo group, notoriously hard to search, and that isn't the point anyhow.

But there is nothing inherently "wrong" with stating the "worth" of an Atlas lathe at $3000. It is perfectly reasonable in one way at least.

Things have at least 3 "exchange rates".

There is "worth", which I will suggest may be expressed as either "what you are willing to pay for the capability the item has", or "what you would have to pay for the equivalent capability".

There is "cost", which, obviously, is what it takes in money etc to make the item or its equivalent.

Then there is "market value", which is the "going rate" for whatever is in question.

In the case of any transaction, both parties need to be approaching the matter on the same basis. Otherwise there is a mismatch, and at least one person will be disappointed or will feel insulted.

I suggest that in the case of the original transaction mentioned, both parties must have been considering the matter on a "worth" basis. Clearly the "cost" is more, taking likely production volume etc into account for US manufacture of the identical item. Worth would be presumably at least the cost of the lowest priced similar or equal item on the market new, for which $3000 is not unreasonable for a chinese machine. If they had been considering "market value", we can all offer examples which show that to be considerably less.

Therefore, the statement that the Atlas lathe is "worth" $3000 is clearly one possible view, and not an unreasonable one.

There exist counter-views.......

For instance: One could argue that the "worth" of the OTHER item, the NEW one, is no more than the "market value" of an item such as the Atlas, which is capable of doing the same work or task. That view is essentially the opposite of the first definition of "worth".

OR: One could argue that the TRUE "worth" can only be expressed as the "cost" of duplicating the item. That would probably lead to a higher "worth".

Finally, one could argue that the "worth" is a meaningless construct, because it ignores circumstances. What is the "worth" of a suitable lifeboat to you if you have fallen un-noticed off a ship in mid-ocean? Surely not the "cost" or any other number mentioned above....


A new never-used 12" Atlas was recently offered for $8000 on a Yahoo group. But as I am sure you might expect, there were a number of conflicting systems for placing a price on it....... And in that case, the availability of any "equivalent" item (another never used Atlas) has to be estimatede when deciding a price.

oldtiffie
05-24-2008, 09:33 PM
As I understand it, the (net) worth of an item is only what somebody is prepared to or does pay on the day.

J Tiers
05-24-2008, 09:42 PM
As I understand it, the (net) worth of an item is only what somebody is prepared to or does pay on the day.

That is the "market value"...... And many times it DOES set the value for tax purposes, etc, as it is what you can get at a sheriff's auction.

The whole "worth" deal is fraught with exactly that sort of semantic issue, which is why "worth" is such a troublesome term......

It is MUCH easier to arrive at either the "cost" or the "market value" than the "worth".

oldtiffie
05-24-2008, 09:46 PM
And DON'T even think about let alone mention "intrinsic" and "sentimental" or "heritage" values either seperately or in combination as then the waters will really be muddied!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic

John Lawson
05-25-2008, 01:49 PM
Does anyone else cringe when they are asked to place a value on a used machine tool for insurance purposes? I have never found a blue book of used machine tool values to use as a reference.
Several times, I have needed a part desperately and so overbid the price considerably. And, this reflects in the going price of that particular item.

Chipslinger
05-25-2008, 02:04 PM
I saw this here once I think...something like this...

"I try to never tell somebody what there stuff is worth."

That seems to be Politicly correct.

pcarpenter
05-25-2008, 03:40 PM
I saw this here once I think...something like this...

"I try to never tell somebody what there stuff is worth."

That seems to be Politicly correct.

I said something like that except I spelled "their" correctly;)

I don't think its politically correct, I just think its wise. If someone asks me what I think its worth, I would certainly not hold back. However, you don't get bonus points for sticking your thumb in the seller's eye so to speak. If I don't like what he is asking for something, I can formulate what I am willing to pay and offer it to the guy. He can then take it or leave it...there's no particular value in telling him how crazy he is and why. It might somehow feel good to try to "set someone straight", but that's pretty selfish really. I suppose if the guy launches into a big song and dance about why its worth so much you might take the opportunity to point out some of the counterpoints to his evaluation--kindly.

I went and looked at a guy's lathe for my uncle who was lathe shopping at the time. I told him the same thing I wrote here before: I won't be offended at you telling me to go fly a kite if you won't be offended at my making an offer." In the end, he stuck to his guns. I drug my uncle there later to see another one and in the end we didn't buy either. The owner ended up giving me another piece of machinery I was admiring...just gave it to me. I wonder how interested he would have been in that bit of kindness if I had an attitude about his other stuff and went off on a track to try to set him straight?

I know this is going to sound like me taking the opposite position I took in this same thread already, but truthfully, neither extreme works very well. If you make an offer based on a realistic evaluation and the owner is really attached to his stuff, he is likely going to get to keep it. You don't then need to tell him he is nuts. Just smile and walk away. If it stays on the market long enough, he will get the point. If it sells at his asking price, then he was right all along. Its worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it as I said before.

Paul

Chipslinger
05-25-2008, 03:48 PM
Thanx WOLFIE. for the spell check.

pcarpenter
05-25-2008, 04:23 PM
Chipslinger--Not the pr1ck you think I am eh;)

I did add the wink to my previous post after I wrote that. It *was* a joke, sort of. I did write roughly what you said and wanted to indicate that minus the spelling errors. I know the difference and even how to spell each and yet have made the same mistake when typing furiously....its as though the mind takes over based on the sound of the word or something....so I didn't mean to poke you with a sharp stick over it or anything like that.

Paul

Pete H
05-25-2008, 07:13 PM
Gun shows here in the NorthEast are just as bad. Same guys, same stuff, same complaints, every show. Except for the people selling "fantasy" knives (you know, six blades pointing in every direction, with demon-head cutouts)... they seem to do OK. And, of course, the predators who hope to "score" on some poor dope who wanders in with Grandpa's Fox Sterlingworth, and no idea what it's worth.

Stuff in general is just priced out of sight, partly I think due to the shift in the dollar, partly to supply-and-demand, partly greed. For instance, three years ago, you could get Russian "Wolf" AK47 ammo for $8 the hundred. Now they're $6 for TWENTY.

To keep this on-topic: It appears the same thing is happening with machine tools, especially with "special interest" stuff like Emco-Maier, which case is largely governed by rarity - "They ain't makin' them no more".

oldtiffie
05-25-2008, 08:01 PM
Possibly the worst situation to be in is that of Executor of a deceased person's estate - the more so if it is a close friend and/or relative and the Will or circumstances require that you sell it - usually at auction - for what you can get on the day.

It is made worse if the "day" is a "poor" one and you did your best. It is made worse knowing either how the owner valued the item/s, or the beneficiaries needed the money or just wanted it all over an out of the way.

Its worse still if you sell it as best you can and some greedy beneficiary wants it sold as soon as possible and/or accuses or sues you for "not getting/doing/trying hard enough".

In this case either the market or the courts will determine the "worth" of an item and your liability - if any.

Its worth thinking about and pre-planning and you/r being sufficiently pro-active about these matters for you to spare any of your friends or family being in this circumstance - if you can - to "ease the way".

Appointing someone as your Executor is not always in the best interests of a friend you trust as it can be a "poisoned chalice".

J Tiers
05-25-2008, 09:28 PM
For instance: One could argue that the "worth" of the OTHER item, the NEW one, is no more than the "market value" of an item such as the Atlas, which is capable of doing the same work or task. That view is essentially the opposite of the first definition of "worth".

It occurs to me that the above may be part of what has done-in several domestic industries...... including manual machine tools. "I have an older one, so why buy new?"............


And as is usual, the concepts of "worth" and "market value" have been quite thoroughly mixed-up in the above few posts. That in itself illustrates the total confusion and hard feelings often resulting from an assessment of "probable market value" when the seller or prospective seller is really thinking "worth".

Those two numbers may be 2 to even 10 times different.

When you go to sell an item, especially ANY sale where there is a limited time, your chances of getting "market value", let alone "worth" or "cost", may be slim to none. The only chance is if at least two "collectors" are present, and both want the item.

Obviously a Christie's auction is NOT under discussion here, just ordinary estate sales and local auctions.

And, naturally, the owner, or the owner's heirs, who know, or may think they know, the "cost" of the items, do NOT want to hear about the "market value"..... they just want to see the pile of big bills you left, after you leave with the stuff.

No telling THEM that a worn-looking and ordinary Starrett 0-1 mic is not an "expensive specialty machinist tool worth (!) hundreds of $$"

oldtiffie
05-26-2008, 12:45 AM
If you really want (or need?) to see (only some) of what problems there are potentially (and in reality) as regards the realisation of assets, on behalf of or for another person, read up on the following:

Power/s of Attorney:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_attorney

Death without a Will:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy

Planning for who will manage your business and/or affairs in the event that you are not "capable".

(Lack of) Testamentary Capacity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testamentary_capacity

Being placed in/under "legal guardian(ship)".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_guardian

Involuntary commitment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment