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View Full Version : What have I done now?? (Got the (new) old VN home!



torker
05-29-2008, 03:41 PM
Really... It didn't look that big in the pics.
Had to get a 980 Cat to unload it. Couldn't even get it under my lifting beam outside my shop.
And the extras!!! A good size lil' tool box chock full of collets, ems,great big dividing head... 4 /50 taper arbors...
Pics at 11...
Anyone want a deal on a nice old Ohio Universal.. :D
Russ

pcarpenter
05-29-2008, 03:49 PM
Oh sure....a teaser with no pictures.:rolleyes:

Paul

torker
05-29-2008, 04:04 PM
Oh sure....a teaser with no pictures.:rolleyes:

Paul
I'll get them... it's pouring rain so it's tarped... and I'm still in shock! :D
This thing is beautiful!!! Got a factory mount BP head on it... my motor from my other mill will bolt right in.. this one is 550V...I can't power it up very easy.
It'll be a little underpowered with only a 3hp 3ph but it'll do fine.
All this.. $1200 Cnd.... and delivered to my door from 300 miles away over two steep mountain passes... heh heh... nobody else wanted it... it's too big.

torker
05-29-2008, 04:26 PM
It quit raining for a bit...
Here is the lil' thing..
OK.. it's not all that big but it makes my Ohio look like a toy.
This is about 4500 pounds. EDIT.. (it actaully weighs about 6200 or so as it sits...ouch)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00001-57.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00002-42.jpg
Is this an "M" head?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00003-24.jpg

torker
05-29-2008, 04:27 PM
A couple of the rest of the extras..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00004-20.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00005-9.jpg

mark61
05-29-2008, 06:59 PM
Looks like a good deal if it runs as supposed too.

mark61

lane
05-29-2008, 08:02 PM
Looks REAL good. But think I will keep my VN 12
That thing should move some metal in a hurry.Good buy.

torker
05-29-2008, 09:56 PM
Lane... I'd have room for your #12 :D This one... may have to put up a building around it. It will stick out from a wall 6 1/2 feet.
Geez... bonus.. I found out this thing is a Universal!!!
Now all I need to do is figure out how to disengage or unlock the X travel.
Got y working fine.
So far the table/knee travel isn't quite as silky smooth as the Ohio. but I think the knee and tables weigh as much as the Ohio does.
Can't find any broken gears yet... so far I'm light years ahead of where I was with the ol' Ohio.

quasi
05-30-2008, 12:17 AM
Torker, your Bridgeport head is an M-head, spindle taper will be mt-2 or B&S#7. I think it will be 1/2 hp.

torker
05-30-2008, 09:50 AM
Quasi... Yup, You're right on all counts. I went to Tony's UK site and read about it. Not the most desirable BP head for sure but it seems in good shape and dead simple.
Pretty light duty head though. Other than power down and the tilting feature I really can't see where this would be better than my 2hp mill/drill.
Everything is stouter on the M/D, R-8 and it has way more power.
Oh... guess I should put on my BP flamesuit??? :D

vmil3
05-30-2008, 10:23 AM
The Dividing head showen is from a Cincinnatti Milling machine. Our's had a 3jaw chuck mounted on a 50 NMTB taper that fit into the dividing head. Don't lift using the over arm support, better to lock the knee, move the table to middle of it's travel, sling between the knee and main base, behind the knee lift screw, and a couple of eye bolts in the rear anchor bolt holes. Use slings long enough to go above the over arm, and connect with a large clevis.

pcarpenter
05-30-2008, 10:44 AM
Doug-- you may know better than I, but most of the knee mills I have seen have some sort of bronze feed nut that the knee elevation screw runs in. I would hate to hang the whole thing by some acme threads in a bronze nut.

Russ-- I can't see what the knuckle looks like that mounts the M head, but it may be that the most valuable thing you have is that mount--if it could be used to mount a more modern J-head etc. Its not that there's anything wrong with that M head and likely for end milling its probably perfectly adequate, but spending a bunch of money on MT or B&S collets and other tooling could be annoying. I see more modern Bridgeport heads go pretty cheap from time to time on Ebay etc.

That's certainly a stout mill you have there! Good luck getting it all set up. A corner may be the most efficient location. I also can't help noting the irony--didn't you have as your first problem with the Ohio an issue with one of the feeds being stuck engaged?

Paul

torker
05-30-2008, 11:58 AM
Doug... the overarm has big slots in it that have been used to lift this a few times in the past it looks like. They used chains etc...you can see the "chain tracks" in the slots. My Ohio has a lifting eye screwed into the top of the overarm for lifting as well. This over arm is very heavy. I'm not saying it is the right place to lift it but you also had to be there.
The guy was from Calgary, rented a trailer here but had to have it back before the rental place closed...then he had to rush home.We couldn't get the machine under my lifting beam... the big chainfall was too low and there was no way to lift it.. I even let the air out of the guys trailer tires but it wouldn't work.
There was a 980 working across the road, feeding a rock crusher. I asked the guy if he could come and lift the mill for me. He said "Yup... you got 5 minutes... that's it"
So a lot of preplanning time wasn't there.
Paul.. the head mount must be a factory piece. It's made to fit the overarm perfectly and it looks as though another more modern BP head would work.
Yes.. you are right about the Ohio... it was rusted so badly I couldn't tell what was binding where and actually bust the driveshaft when the knee finally popped loose. I'm trying to avoid any such issues with this. Going slow is the word. I only have a few minutes here and there to play with it so it could be awhile.

torker
05-30-2008, 09:10 PM
Hey Doug... are you very familiar with this type of dividing head? I'm a little unsure how the grads work. There are no numbers on the main plate(so I'll have to count ALL the holes?)....then there are a bunch of holes and a sort of floating pin for holes that are behind the chuck mounting plate. There are three rows of holes behind that plate.
Any idears which you use where?
Thanks!
Russ

beckley23
05-30-2008, 10:01 PM
Clean the index plates up, each row of holes should have a number, and the numbers will be lined up. That head also has direct indexing, but the worm gear has to be disengaged. Cincinnati made excellent DH's with a unique feature; the plates have a serrated section for fine adjustment, it's pretty easy to figure out.
IIRC, there are 2 index plates, double sided, supplied when new. Machinery's Handbook has the charts right after the B&S charts.
Harry

Oldbrock
05-31-2008, 01:50 AM
OK! Who lifted the dividing head onto the bench? Nice mill, does it have quick traverse in all three axes? Universal is great if you have to cut helical gears. Hope to see it some time if I can get away. Peter

torker
05-31-2008, 07:58 AM
Harry, I haven't had time to clean the plates up so I could have missed the numbers. I see what you mean with the fine adjustment... little serations on part of the plate.
Peter... umm that would be me who lifted the thing on the table. Holy smoke those are kinda heavy aren't they. Pretty easy to lift down though :D
I don't know if the mill has rapid anything as it's still covered up outdoors and not powered up yet. I'm waiting for the gurl to get back from days off so she can use her brilliant organizational skills to help me find a place to put this beast. It's looking more and more like it'll end up with it's own addition though.
I'd really appreciate if you could stop by sometime and show me some things on this. I can't find any info on this model. It's a 2SU. The guy with the VN information website has never heard of it. It's not that old I don't think. Has a lot of fairly modern features... good horizontal speed range right up to 2000 rpm it looks like.

pcarpenter
05-31-2008, 03:36 PM
I work in a building at the university that is my employer which also houses our Industrial and Manufacturing Engineering departments. As such, there is a shop two floors down from me and I am friends with the guy in charge of it which comes in really handy:D

They have an XLO Van Norman mill of some sort...I am guessing that yours may be closer in vintage to that than to the older WW vintage VN's. I think that VN was bought by XLO or something of the sort if I understand correctly. This thing is a monster with a sort of universal head on an overarm of sorts. It handles big facing cutters quite nicely and is really a neat machine to use and watch. I can snap a picture or two next week if you are interested in seeing it to look for similarities. I do not know the model number.

Be careful with that thing....they make enough torque to really tear up tooling or fixturing etc in the event of a crash....so no crashes:eek:

Paul

andy_b
05-31-2008, 05:39 PM
Russ,

nice score!!!!!

andy b.

gunbuilder
06-01-2008, 09:55 PM
Here is the lil' thing..
OK.. it's not all that big but it makes my Ohio look like a toy.
This is about 4500 pounds.

torker,
You better have your scale checked, it looks like my VN 2H heavy. Book says 6000 pounds /wo the second head. My VN is the heaviest machine Lorraine and I have moved. First off the trailer, stored too long under a tarp, then finally to it's home in the shop.

Thanks,
Paul

rockrat
06-01-2008, 10:11 PM
Van Normans are a interesting thing. Those that dont have them dont seem to care. Those that do have them, love them. My uncle ran one way back when and when he saw mine, he told me all sorts of stories about it.

There are all sorts of info and history for these things. One of the better places is http://jmkasunich.com/vannorman/VN_Home.htm

And Yahoo has a group covering the machine.

Have fun with it. I have enjoyed my 22L, even when I had to move it.

rock~

torker
06-01-2008, 10:23 PM
[QUOTE=gunbuilder]torker,
You better have your scale checked, it looks like my VN 2H heavy. Book says 6000 pounds /wo the second head. My VN is the heaviest machine Lorraine and I have moved. First off the trailer, stored too long under a tarp, then finally to it's home in the shop.

Thanks,
Paul[/QUOTE
Paul, I found that out earlier today.. I'll have to edit that.
I found a lot of info on the VN Yahoo site.
There's an old catalog there with the info. Yours weighs 6100 WITHOUT the motor if it is a standard. The universal like mine is 100 pounds heavier.
Mine has a slightly smaller table than yours (maybe the universals have that??) but the BP head makes up for that I'm sure.
I'm hoping you can answer a couple questions for me... I can't get the drive to release for X. Got the Y to let loose. I don't know if something is rusted or what. I'm sure I can't get something to disengage.
Rock.. I hummed and hawed over this mill for quite awhile. The guy finally dropped his price way down and offered free delivery.
I am very happy I decided to get this now. This has to be one of the better horizontals out there and it's in good shape yet.
Moving it is going to be a bear but it'll be worth the effort I'm sure.
My old Ohio will run a 6" shell mill .150 deep, full width in mild steel easily. This thing is at least twice the machine, power and spindle bearing is far superior.
I can't wait... but I'll have to!
Russ

Malc-Y
06-02-2008, 05:23 AM
Russ-- I can't see what the knuckle looks like that mounts the M head, but it may be that the most valuable thing you have is that mount--if it could be used to mount a more modern J-head etc. Its not that there's anything wrong with that M head and likely for end milling its probably perfectly adequate, but spending a bunch of money on MT or B&S collets and other tooling could be annoying. I see more modern Bridgeport heads go pretty cheap from time to time on Ebay etc.
Paul

The knuckle mounting face for the 'M' head is a lot smaller in diameter than that for the 'J' head. The 'M' head mounting face is 5.125" diameter and that for the 'J' head is 7.5" diameter.
I have a spare knuckle for mounting an 'M' head and as I have a 'J' and an 'E' head on my Bridgeport this knuckle is surplus to requirements!

Malc. :cool:

gunbuilder
06-02-2008, 10:51 PM
I'm hoping you can answer a couple questions for me... I can't get the drive to release for X. Got the Y to let loose. I don't know if something is rusted or what. I'm sure I can't get something to disengage.
Russ
Russ,
Are you talking about the power feed for the table?
If that is the problem, that "lever" turns from side to side with a neutral in the middle.

I know of no table lock, looks like the table is so massive it doesn't shake at all.

I saw your posts on Yahoo VN site.

Thanks,
Paul

torker
06-02-2008, 11:52 PM
Paul! Ok... the rotating "barrel" deal in the (front) middle of the table... is that what kicks in the powerfeed? What is the pin for that sinks in when you lift the handle on the barrel deal? When that lever is in the middle.. does that mean the powerfeed is disengaged?
Remember.. I don't have this under power yet... it's still outside under a tarp.
I want to get the X table travel working with the handwheel so I can properly clean and lube the ways for short term storage. There is something still in gear or something that is stopping the X handwheel from turning.
The Y travel was stuck in a similar manner but I moved one of the levers on the left (the two that are right together up front/left while facing it.) and it let go... the Y handwheel moves the table in and out no problem... got the knee moving up and down etc. X is the only one that has me stumped.
I can tear it to pieces to find out how it works but it's outside in a gravel covered yard.. not a good place to retrieve flying parts.
Thanks!
Russ

gunbuilder
06-03-2008, 11:20 AM
Russ,
One big caution! I am not very experienced with the Van Norman. Mine has been in the shop a total of a few months, many of them were winter (zero to 20F below). Just got it in the warm side of the shop a few weeks ago.

Lever in the middle is good, power feed is disengaged. The lift up part deals with the table limits. It is built so that when the limit is set it will stop the table. Then you lift the lever and turn it so the table goes the other direction.

If it has been in cold storage, or not used for a while I would loosen the table gib. Then rock the hand wheel back a forth gently, like 20 foot pounds on a torque wrench. If there is any slack, that is good. If it is solid, find any spot to oil. Mine has a one shot oiler on the front, a handle by a sight glass. Pull the handle and a spring return oils the table gib.


eBay seller "industrial-librarian" has a Heavy #2 manual maybe he has info on the Standard #3.

Thanks,
Paul

rockrat
06-03-2008, 08:48 PM
Russ,
I have noticed that on the VN sometimes I need to bump the motor to make any changes. I'm not sure if the gears were cut so that they slightly lock together or if it is just the nature of the beast.

You might try having someone turn the motor shaft by hand (if no electricity is available) and then try to disengage the drive. Sometimes its all min needs.

As for the depth of cut, mine has always surprised me. I'll be cutting along and take a cut that seems too heavy, but she just eats it up. I'd venture to say that the heavier cuts are smoother than the light ones.

rock~

gunbuilder
06-03-2008, 10:28 PM
eBay seller "industrial-librarian" has a Heavy #2 manual maybe he has info on the Standard #3.

Thanks,
Paul
Oops, I should have said Standard #2. I think that is what yours is, Russ?

Thanks,
Paul

torker
06-03-2008, 11:48 PM
Yup.. this is a #2. Ok.. I got the table moving. The feed engagement lever on the back side of the table was stuck. I wasn't getting it back far enough or something. There's a bit of rust right under there so that may have done it. Sprayed Kroil on it and it's getting looser as I play with it.
I spent a lot of useless time on the barrel lever part. Thanks for telling me what it was.
I have to take a pic of the one shot oiler on this. There is no handle... no other means of pumping oil. somthing seems to be missing ..not sure yet.
Later.. I'm sure..
Russ